Dowsing

*Sigh*

That's not how this works.... I'm not going to explain how scientific investigation works except to say it DOESN'T work by one person trying it themselves.

I'm outta this thread, the discussion is pointless. You can go on hoping, believing, and moving goalposts and stuff. Whatever.
Yes, a good thesis being proven to be correct or incorrect requires funding in order to get peer reviewed analysis of the results, and no one is going to fund that kind of experimentation. And it is true, anectdotes are not proof of anything except that people believe something. Independently many have experimented with dowsing and found it to be a useful tool. It doesn't matter if it is scientifally accepted for them, but that doesn't mean their experiments were unscinetific if they kept logs of the data and had different people using the dowsing rods in different kinds of terrain.
 
Its ok to have your beliefs even if other don't agree with them.
"Well, you know, some people believe that they're Napoleon. That's fine. Beliefs are neat. Cherish them, but don't share them like they're the truth." Bill Hicks :hoff:
 
Its ok to have your beliefs even if other don't agree with them. But it is also ok for others to have their beliefs. You don't have to agree with them. I have seen dowsing work, and I was raised in a religion that said anything unexplainable, whether helpful or hurtful is the work of the devil. But I am a thinker and I grew up and over the years I have given up my anger at those who insiste everyone is wrong because... I realized some need what ever belief they cling to just to function in this crazy world. Most of my beliefs are in a realm that even new agers don't want to go. It is how I understand my place in this world and everyone has to have that, a way to understand their place in a human body on planet earth.
Quite right. As far as dowsing is concerned, we need to get away from the ideas of "occult practices", "belief" and the like and just treat dowsing as we do any poorly understood phenomenon that requires systematic study and sound research. Both the New Age folk and the Sceptics have taken on board notions about personal powers and other worldly manifestations, instead of forgetting these and just using systematic experimentation. How lucky it is that Reddish was totally ignorant of the subject and started his studies from scratch, just employing the knowledge he had gained from astrophysics and applying standard procedures of observation and measurement.
 
"Well, you know, some people believe that they're Napoleon. That's fine. Beliefs are neat. Cherish them, but don't share them like they're the truth." Bill Hicks :hoff:
As I said in my previous post, let's forget about "belief" and concentrate first on determining the facts!
 
"Well, you know, some people believe that they're Napoleon. That's fine. Beliefs are neat. Cherish them, but don't share them like they're the truth." Bill Hicks :hoff:
Yep.
 
Quite right. As far as dowsing is concerned, we need to get away from the ideas of "occult practices", "belief" and the like and just treat dowsing as we do any poorly understood phenomenon that requires systematic study and sound research. Both the New Age folk and the Sceptics have taken on board notions about personal powers and other worldly manifestations, instead of forgetting these and just using systematic experimentation. How lucky it is that Reddish was totally ignorant of the subject and started his studies from scratch, just employing the knowledge he had gained from astrophysics and applying standard procedures of observation and measurement.
Yes, my dad went through that when my uncle and his friend showed him that it worked, he tested it and then used it when it was useful. He had two college degrees, one in geology and one in ecconomics. It isn't being a scientist (geologist) that keeps someone from labeling something they don't want to understand as occult, it is fear or religious beliefs or stubborness as one with a scientific mind is curious and willing to investigate anything that interests him or her. So, it seems it would be more appropriate to say something like "I don't believe that is useful and I am not interested in that" than saying "it is occult".
 
Seems to be working for this chap in Bratislava ...

PXL_20230803_103737693~2.jpg
 
one with a scientific mind is curious and willing to investigate anything that interests him or her.

For many, this is the reason why they don't personally see if there's anything in the British Israelites, Lethbridge's ghouls, or 1st person UFO reports. It's just not interesting to them.

Nothing to do with conspiracies, People in Power or anything else.
 
I remember a Fortean Times exhibition in Croydon where they had had a dowsing machine and various twigs and rods etc. I had 5 goes and found the water every time. By the time I put the rods back, there was a small crowd of people looking at me weirdly. But that’s Croydon for you. I think they also had Uri Geller’s Bent Spoon-adorned car there too iirc.
 
My father-in-law's experience with dowsing might be interesting. He was an engineering supervisor with BR, and an experienced plumber. On many occasions he was called upon to search for long-buried pipes and culverts which had been underground for over a hundred years; he used a combination of skill, observation and common sense to find these hidden structures, with considerable success.

The local area manager had heard good reports about dowsing, so he sent several of the civil engineering staff on a dowsing course, trying to find buried water and cables. After a while, everybody else on the course was reporting success at finding the hidden pipes, except my father-in-law, who just couldn't feel anything using the rods.

I suspect (though I can't prove) that my father-in-law already knew where to find the pipes, by using his trusted observational skills and knowledge of plumbing; but the other staff who were not so accustomed to locating buried infrastructure were subconsciously observing the same clues, and using these observations to find the pipes anyway. The dowsing rods were their way of reinforcing their subconscious or half-formed impressions of the underground infrastructure; whereas my father-in-law was confident enough not to need the rods, so he ignored them.

Or, as he put it, 'they don't bloody work for me'.
 
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My father-in-law's experience with dowsing might be interesting. He was an engineering supervisor with BR, and an experienced plumber. On many occasions he was called upon to search for long-buried pipes and culverts which had been underground for over a hundred years; he used a combination of skill, observation and common sense to find these hidden structures, with considerable success.

The local area manager had heard good reports about dowsing, so he sent several of the civil engineering staff on a dowsing course, trying to find buried water and cables. After a while, everybody else on the course was reporting success at finding the hidden pipes, except my father-in-law, who just couldn't feel anything using the rods.

I suspect (though I can't prove) that my father-in-law already knew where to find the pipes, by using his trusted observational skills and knowledge of plumbing; but the other staff who were not so accustomed to locating buried infrastructure were subconsciously observing the same clues, and using these observations to find the pipes anyway. The dowsing rods were their way of reinforcing their subconscious or half-formed impressions of the underground infrastructure; whereas my father-in-law was confident enough not to need the rods, so he ignored them.

Or, as he put it, 'they don't bloody work for me'.
Reddish's theory was that whether someone could dowse or not was connected with the amount of water in their bodies, although I don't think he or his team ever tested that theory.
 
It's like many things in life, you've got it or you haven't, I believe that some people can do it (and Lethbridge is a fine author on the subject) but how they do it will never be known I guess
 
It would be interesting to go the other way. Find out what could make two rods rotate towards each other, apart from hands obviously.
 
It would be interesting to go the other way. Find out what could make two rods rotate towards each other, apart from hands obviously.
Ivan Sanderson did an interesting experiment back in the 60s, he rigged up a kind of trolley running along a cable and put a couple of rods on it, in tubes mounted facing slightly forwards, and had it pulled along over spots where targets had been buried. The rods crossed by themselves when passing over the targets.
 
My Dad explained dowsing as our bodies reaction to what we are thinking, or focussing on, and the rods are the magnifiers of our bodies reaction. He reckoned that the rods were peripheral to the act of dowsing.
 
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