• Forums Software Updates

    The forums will be undergoing updates on Friday 28th February 2025.
    Little to no downtime is expected.
  • We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

Dragons: Evidence They Existed

Hengest said:
in response to the OP - I believe work originates from the Norse/Germanic/Anglo words orm/wyrm referring to serpent. translating to the common use of Worm when discussing Dragons/Serpents. - the Wy in Wyrm is possibly where the Wyvern originates from ? I'm just guessing that part though. maybe someone else knows?
Click to expand...
Wyvern comes from the same root as viper, originally spelt with a w in Norman French.
 
kamalktk said:
He's already found them.

"Rogan has discussed dragons on his podcast on several occasions, once speculating that what humans believed to be dragons may actually have been pterodactyl relatives or even giant birds."
Click to expand...
:roll: OK, then.

The Internet: Where loudmouth idiots get 100X more attention than learned experts.
 
Hengest said:
in response to the OP - I believe work originates from the Norse/Germanic/Anglo words orm/wyrm referring to serpent. translating to the common use of Worm when discussing Dragons/Serpents. - the Wy in Wyrm is possibly where the Wyvern originates from ? I'm just guessing that part though. maybe someone else knows?
Click to expand...
Apparently not related (except in the most general sense that they both mean "snake"):

Wyvern: late Middle English (denoting a viper): from Old French wivre, from Latin vipera .

Wyrm: From Proto-Germanic *wurmiz (“worm, serpent, snake”), from Proto-Indo-European *wr̥mis (“worm”). Cognate with Old Frisian wirm, Old Saxon wurm, Old High German wurm, Old Norse ormr, and Gothic (waurms).
 
Last edited:
SimonBurchell said:
Apparently not related (except in the most general sense that they both mean "snake":

Wyvern: late Middle English (denoting a viper): from Old French wivre, from Latin vipera .

Wyrm: From Proto-Germanic *wurmiz (“worm, serpent, snake”), from Proto-Indo-European *wr̥mis (“worm”). Cognate with Old Frisian wirm, Old Saxon wurm, Old High German wurm, Old Norse ormr, and Gothic (waurms).
Click to expand...
excellent stuff! Thank you
 
I wonder if local names for local people were perhaps prejudicial? So the local lord might have been known as 'Dragon' or 'Snake' if he was particularly avaricious or unpleasant, and his killing by a rival or relative might commonly be known as 'killing the dragon/snake'? And this enters local folklore and becomes translated into a literal killing of a dragon or a snake.

It could also have a counterpoint in someone less evil or more protective of his workforce being known as 'The Dog' and give rise in a similar fashion to protective black dog tales?

Just me thinking aloud. Well, not aloud, but you know what I mean.
 
Hengest said:
in response to the OP - I believe work originates from the Norse/Germanic/Anglo words orm/wyrm referring to serpent. translating to the common use of Worm when discussing Dragons/Serpents. - the Wy in Wyrm is possibly where the Wyvern originates from ? I'm just guessing that part though. maybe someone else knows?
Click to expand...
Wyvern is from the Latin vipera meaning asp. In old French it was rendered as guivre.
 
catseye said:
I wonder if local names for local people were perhaps prejudicial? So the local lord might have been known as 'Dragon' or 'Snake' if he was particularly avaricious or unpleasant, and his killing by a rival or relative might commonly be known as 'killing the dragon/snake'? And this enters local folklore and becomes translated into a literal killing of a dragon or a snake.

It could also have a counterpoint in someone less evil or more protective of his workforce being known as 'The Dog' and give rise in a similar fashion to protective black dog tales?

Just me thinking aloud. Well, not aloud, but you know what I mean.
Click to expand...
Yes that all adds to the mix. I have a quote about that very thing if i can find it.
 
Sharon Hill said:
Lon does little more than post unverified stories. His site is frustrating to read. I think half the people are pranking him.
Click to expand...
Agree, there must be some genuine cases in amongst it all and maybe the Utah green dragon is one of them, but way too many posts lacking substance. I used to subscribe for email updates but I became frustrated with it all
 
TruthIsScarierThanFiction said:
There's a post there where he shares a sighting of a "Witcher", a fictional monster hunter from a book series
Click to expand...
More than a few of his posts read like they were written by the same person. I studied World Englishes as a part of my Masters level TESOL course and this case purported to be from a resident of Blackpool in England is clearly written in American English (two glaring examples underlined) :

4 people in Blackpool, Lancashire, UK encounter a cryptid canine that is standing in the street howling / screaming. The witnesses referred to it as a 'werewolf.'

The following account was recently referred to me:

"I live in Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. One evening in 2006, I was walking home along the main street in our neighbourhood. There was only three other people close by and they all saw the same thing. A very large, grey dog ran from one of the adjoining streets. It ran into the middle of the road and stopped still. I was close to it and was scared by what I was seeing. The creature reared onto its back legs and howled. It was not like any dog howl I had heard before. It was frightening and high-pitched, almost like a scream, but not a scream. I wanted to run, but I was intrigued. It was at least six feet tall when it was standing and its fangs were long and visible. It looked around at the other three people, then around at me. It growled and took off on all fours back down the street it had come from.

I ran over to the other people who, like me, were mesmerized by what we had witnessed. None of us knew what animal it was. We all had an idea, although no one said anything. The creature we had seen, we believe, was a werewolf. It couldn't have been anything else. It didn't act like a dog and it didn't even run like a dog; it sort of loped in a weird way.

I didn't do a report about it for the fact that no one would believe me and I would be out of a job for suggesting it. I haven't seen the creature since, although I have looked regularly and still walk the same way home. I even take a camera in case I do see it. I do regularly hear similar noises very late at night. I swear that every word is true even if nobody else admits to seeing it, this is proof that werewolves do exist." D

NOTE: Possibly a cryptid canine, but doubtful that it was actually a 'werewolf.' Lon

https://www.phantomsandmonsters.com/2020/

I could go on and cite more examples and this is why I gave up on the blog
 
Kondoru said:
But do dragons exist in every culture?
Click to expand...
I'm not a fan of the universality of dragon lore myself. If you define dragon as a large, dangerous primarily reptilian creature, dragon legends could be said to be more or less true (and by that definition, dragons could be said to be real). But it feels to me as though that implies something significant, where really no such significance exists. I don't see much actual similarity between the tatsu and the Welsh dragon, for example. Many cultures that experienced reptiles had reptilian monsters in their folklore. We, in the anglophone world, stick the label 'dragon' on the creatures the folklore of other cultures, and then see significance in all these dragons.
 
Kondoru said:
Often Dragon is used as shorthand for any big monster.

I dont believe that all cultures have dragons any more than I believe that all cultures have Flood myths.

(But many do).
Click to expand...
All cultures have giant, magical reptiles in them. Some breath fire, some don't, some are good, some are evil.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top