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Dreaming Of The Dead

I did not read very much in the event. Just a fairly short chapter in which Freud in Germanic scholarly mode sums up the authorities who line up on either side of the debate as to whether dreams emerge from our daily lives or allow us to escape entirely from our own selves.

He gives an amusing dream from Hildebrandt.

The dreamer goes to St Helena to sell sell Moselle wine to Napoleon, who receives him cordially. But the dreamer has never been a wine-merchant, nor ever wished to be one. He has never been on a sea-voyage and had no interest in visiting St Helena. He has no sympathetic feelings about Napoleon - in fact he detested him. The clincher is that the dreamer was born after the death of Napoleon.

The dream has no connection with the life of the dreamer. Cases such as this seem to have set Freud off on the symbolic route in order to re-establish connections at another level. His dogmatic reduction of wild and varied subject matter to sexual terms is probably why the book has remained unopened for years.

Perhaps it is best treated as a rich storehouse of material and an ideal bedside book.
 
I suppose it's a very narrow line between this behaviour and Dreaming of the dead:

Robert Peston: my dead wife still tells me what to do when we talk
Robert Peston, the BBC’s business editor, has disclosed that he still seeks advice from his late wife Siân Busby, saying the “conversation” with a loved one continues after death.
By Hannah Furness
6:00AM BST 07 Oct 2013

Peston, whose wife died from lung cancer last year, said the relationship “doesn’t vanish”, as he admits he continues to “have a dialogue” with her in his daily life.
Appearing at the Cheltenham Literature Festival to speak about her last novel, A Commonplace Killing, he said he still finds himself asking her advice in a “challenging situation”.

Peston also spoke of his work transcribing the longhand writing of his “brave, tough, honest, astonishingly scholarly” wife, after she finished her novel quietly before she passed away.

When asked by Huw Edwards, his colleague, why he had felt the need to write out her words so soon after her death, Peston said: “I have a powerful sense of duty. It felt like the right thing to do to honour her.”
He then discussed “what happens to your relationship with a person after they die”, saying in his case he believed “the conversation” carried on.

“If you’re lucky enough, as I was, to have a partnership as rich and important as my one with Siân, you continue in a sense to have a dialogue. Even after physically she’s gone.
“This was the most, I suppose, obvious way in which the conversation was kept going. As the person who was mostly the counsellor in my life, I still find myself asking her in a sense what the right thing to do in a challenging situation [is].
“The answer is that that conversation continues and this was part of it.”

A Commonplace Killing tells the story of a crime in post-war London, and was given a four-star review by The Daily Telegraph for its “rich period detail” and “beautifully drawn characters”.
Busby, who never smoked, died last ­September, aged 51, leaving two sons.

In an introduction to her novel, Peston wrote that his motive for writing up her final chapters was “selfish”, admitting: “I wanted to keep talking to her. I still do.”

When asked by a member of the audience what Busby would have said if she been at the event herself, Peston joked she would probably have ticked him off.
“She would have given an astonishingly scholarly account of post-war Britain,” he said. “And she would probably say, 'Why are you going on about all this sentimental nonsense?’. Because she was a much tougher person [than me] in that sense.”

He added: “Opening a book, hearing the person you love more than anything in the world, hearing her voice in your head was very, very difficult, but it was something I felt was absolutely the right thing to do.
“She was writing this knowing she was dying. That’s pretty extraordinary.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -talk.html
 
Poor Robert.
I had noticed that the Beeb have recently given him more light-hearted work to do, presumably in an effort to cheer him up.
 
Here's what St Augustin had to say about dreams of the dead:

On the Care of the Dead

This is a heavy read so if you're interested, you could do a search on the page for the word dream. ;)

It's a discussion about whether people who appear in our dreams, whether dead or alive, can really tell us anything we don't already know.

Stories are told of certain appearances or visions, which may seem to bring into this discussion a question which should not be slighted. It is said, namely, that dead men have at times either in dreams or in some other way appeared to the living who knew not where their bodies lay unburied, and have pointed out to them the place, and admonished that the sepulture which was lacking should be afforded them.
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I heard about this in a podcast. How educational. 8)
 
After my dad died when I was 18, he appeared in a dream to say he'd been employed by the government as a spy and was back working on the QE2 which had to stay in Australia. (He used to be a merchant navy sailor on the Cunard queens.)

When I woke I was not only comforted by this dream but somewhat impressed with my dreamself's ingenuity in coming up with this explanation for why he wasn't there.

Later, he would pop up in my dream and take me for a little drive and ask me how I was getting on and I would moan about college then Uni. We'd have a nice cup of tea and he'd drive off 'til next time.

He doesn't appear in my dreams much now. I guess my mind has finally got used to the idea 20 years later. Sometimes I pop back in time and have my evening meal with my family as they were when I was about 13.

My grandad died 10 years ago and despite his being my mentor and my still missing him like a hole in the head I have never once dreamed about him. Strange.

edit: Gah. I've just read my post from 2010 in the other thread where I almost repeat this post word for word. Sorry folks.
 
My Dad died 15 years ago, of a heart attack caused by COPD (only it was called emphysema then.) At the end of his life he was a small, hunched, frail, emaciated figure reliant on a piped oxygen supply all the time; he had been a nurse, and I always thought he looked scared, too, because he knew what was coming.

A few months after his death, my OH had a dream in which he met my Dad looking healthy and happy; they shook hands and my Dad left. Neither of us has dreamt about him since, but I got a great deal of comfort from that when he told me about it.
 
I lost my Dad 10 years ago to cancer and I dream of him often. In my dreams he is always just there, like he's never been gone. He's always fit and healthy and there is never any mention of him being alive or cancer. It makes me happy to see him.

It was a the 20 yr anniversary of a family friend last week who died in his early 20's in an accident whilst on holiday abroad. A few days after he died I dreamed I saw him in a car park. He came over to talk to me and said 'Please do me a favor, go and see my Mum and tell her I didn't mean to die'. I never did cause I thought it would be too upsetting at the time. It's far too late now, I really wish I had though, I do regret it.
 
It's not too late, if you can find her. In her place I'd be pleased to hear from you.
 
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It depends on how accepting you think she might be. When my husband's niece died I tried to give my sister in law the message that her daughter wanted her to know how much she had loved her although in life she had seemed to be closer to her father.
She did not take it well and was quite hostile for quite a long time and only by including her in any of our family things has she at last melted quite a bit.
 
Yes, not everybody wants to hear such a 'message'.

My own Mum believes in the Invisible Sky Fairy, but if someone gave her a message from the recently deceased, she would simply refuse to hear it.
Part of her belief includes not communicating with the dead - I seem to recall her quoting some scripture at me to that effect. This is the big reason why she doesn't trust Spiritualists or the Spiritualist Church.
 
My parents' much-loved dog died almost two years ago. He died very suddenly after being taken ill overnight. I used to walk him several times a week and was heart-broken to lose him - especially when he wasn't particularly old and seemed to be full of life the day before it happened.

The other night I dreamed I was standing outside their house gate and the dog was running up and down outside, gleefully ignoring my calls (as he used to do). He went to the bottom of their road and was having fun with another dog that was being walked past. A neighbour came out of his house with some other people. I asked him if he could see my parents' old dog running around. He looked at me oddly and replied that there was no dog there. But I could see him clearly.
 
This thread has reminded me of a dream I had last night. It was very brief, but quite clear.

I got on a bus and went up to the top deck. Seated at the front on the right was an old man, quite small and frail, and for some reason I felt he shouldn't be there.

I put my hand on his shoulder, and he slumped over, clearly dead!

And that was it! I've been on several buses today, but never on the top deck. In fact, I wonder if that's what the dream was about - I don't go upstairs now on the buses because it's too much hassle with my shopping trolley, so perhaps the dead man was a representation of my 'upstairs self'.... And yet physically he was nothing like me...

Next time I'm on a double-decker, I'll leave my trolley in the luggage area, and go upstairs to see what transpires.... :shock:
 
I once had a very vivid dream that my brother was dead. I phoned him up to 4am to check that he was OK as I was in a panic. He nearly poo'd his pants driving to work that morning and drove very carefully.
 
Edited to clarify that I'm replying to Rynner's post about going upstairs on the bus and not the following one about pooing pants! :lol:


Yup, I'd do that. :D

The dream theory which appeals most to me is that all one's dreams are about oneself. I'd certainly agree with your idea that the dead man upstairs on the bus could be a version of yourself.

Might even go so far as to remind you that the subconsious is capable of sending us quite brutal messages wrapped up in imagery to make them more acceptable.

For a person who lives where there're few or no stairs to negotiate, those steep bus steps could take quite an effort.

So perhaps you're being reminded that the effort of climbing those stairs might one day be too much for you! :shock:

That's my interpretation. Probably irrelevant to you of course. ;)

I watched an episode of Six Feet Under last night, where Claire is shown meeting up with various deceased people, including some whom she was surprised to see.
One said 'Oh! Tell me you're just visiting!' and was relieved that Claire had not also died.

This series often has dreams and visions of the dead. They are not really the dead people themselves, but rather part of the living characters' internal dialogues.
The living characters do not generally mention these experiences because they understand that outside the dream context they are meaningless; the deceased person is dead and cannot have anything new to say.

Of course, the main characters are in the funeral business and so have an ongoing relationship with death, at least other people's, and are comfortable with it.
Whereas we might have a similar dream of our deceased father, say, and find it meaningful to us and want to discuss it. Hence this thread. ;)
 
escargot1 said:
The dream theory which appeals most to me is that all one's dreams are about oneself. I'd certainly agree with your idea that the dead man upstairs on the bus could be a version of yourself.

Might even go so far as to remind you that the subconsious is capable of sending us quite brutal messages wrapped up in imagery to make them more acceptable.

For a person who lives where there're few or no stairs to negotiate, those steep bus steps could take quite an effort.

So perhaps you're being reminded that the effort of climbing those stairs might one day be too much for you! :shock:
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Yes, I thought of that too! :(

But there are worse ways to go, and it would make a change for me to inconvenience First, rather than the other way round! :twisted:
 
My mother has been in hospital, quite seriously ill, but is home now. On her last night in there she dreamed that she was walking on a deserted seashore, looking at a big rock on which sat a man looking out to sea.

As she drew nearer he turned to face her. It was my late father, and he said 'So there you are!'

Mother hastily swerved around the rock and hurried back the way she came! :lol:
 
My mother has been in hospital, quite seriously ill, but is home now. On her last night in there she dreamed that she was walking on a deserted seashore, looking at a big rock on which sat a man looking out to sea.

As she drew nearer he turned to face her. It was my late father, and he said 'So there you are!'

Mother hastily swerved around the rock and hurried back the way she came! Laughing
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Hope she's ok now. Classic anxiety dream maybe? Even if it was, i hope it gave her some feeling of comfort to see him again. (sorry, don't know when he passed)
 
escargot1 said:
My mother has been in hospital, quite seriously ill, but is home now. On her last night in there she dreamed that she was walking on a deserted seashore, looking at a big rock on which sat a man looking out to sea.

As she drew nearer he turned to face her. It was my late father, and he said 'So there you are!'

Mother hastily swerved around the rock and hurried back the way she came! :lol:
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She must have known it wasn't her time yet. That is, if she and your dad got along! :)

I do hope she's feeliing better now.
 
Thank yous for the kind wishes. Dad died 5 years ago and as he firmly believed in the afterlife, we have all had dreams about him doing what he expected to there.

Mother certainly isn't ready to join him! :lol:
 
rynner2 said:
But there are worse ways to go, and it would make a change for me to inconvenience First, rather than the other way round! :twisted:
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Brilliant! :)
 
I do dream of my late wife quite often. Normally it is just going through a day or some event as if she was still alive - not surprising, I dreamed I was back at school for years after I grew up. Painful when one wakes up to the depressing reality, but I would imagine quite normal.

To add context, I normally only have a hazy recall of my dreams, enough to know that many of them repeat, but rarely enough to remember any detail.

But I have had one dream in which I was talking to my wiife - I knew she was dead in the dream - and I asked her if we would ever be together again (this is in the dream of course) The answer - somewhat surprisingly - was 'sometimes'. The dream was in colour as well and has never repeated (a pity, because the next question would be asking for some clarification!)

Make of it what you will.
 
I'm sorry to hear about that Cochise but also happy that you still get some comfort from talking to her in your dreams.

Myself and my partner are both terrible snorers so most nights one of us will scuttle off to the spare room for a quiet night's sleep ... except when I sleep in the spare room, I frequently dream of an old woman although my partner never does in the same room ... I've since learned that an old woman once died in our now main bedroom so if there was anything supernatural going, you'd think I'd be dreaming about her in the correct room? ... dreaming of old women is so common as I've read that I don't think anything ghostly is going on, my Boss has a PHD in psychology and was laughing with me about the situation reckoning it's most likely something Freudian .. I'm none the wiser :roll: ...... in one dream she presented herself as a beautiful young woman in what looked like a whale bone corset and replied to me "I'm your girlfriend in 1911" :shock: ...... I woke up pretty sharpish after that.
 
I should add that I don't necessarily believe dreams mean anything - my best guess is that it is simply the brain trying to unwind the day's complications :)

But the occasional dreams I have had - like the one mentioned above - that have stuck in my memory do seem to have a particular significance. But I don't know what it is - it might simply be the subconscious providing what props it thinks are necessary to get the conscious through the day. I would like to believe it is more that that, but I also know that one's own psyche is hardly a valid source of evidence for supernatural events.

edit - corrected misleading typo
 
Cochise said:
..... I would like to believe it is more that that, but I also know that one's own psyche is hardly a valid source of evidence for supernatural events....
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I'm a sceptic to Cochise although I haven't completely written off supernatural intervention dreams yet when we're dreaming about dead people .. so I'm going to call this my strange coincidence or not dream story:


I was working and living in a building (chip shop with upstairs bistro and top floor flat) in Oakham, Leicester in '97.... Catmose fish and chip shop to cut a long story a little shorter. Weird stuff happened all the time to all four of us and we always joked that the place was haunted for various weird reasons. One night, I dreamt that I was walking up an artificial astro turf looking hill (the best way I can describe it to you is it resembling the hill from The Teletubbies but a lot bigger). As I reached the top of this hill, there was an empty car with the back door hanging open. I looked inside and saw a plastic supermarket style bag on the back seat. On looking inside there was a dead baby. So of course I was disturbed by the dream enough to tell my, at the time, girlfriend. She was a local unlike me, had decided something weird was up with the place anyway so decided to ask around and found out that in the 60's a married couple used to run the place, hired a young girl to work alongside the husband who eventually ended up having an affair. The wife discovered this, was distraught and drove her car to the top of a local secluded hill and commited suicide in her car. What she hadn't told anyone was that she was also pregnant .... :shock:
 
I too find that some dreams stand out in my mind, which I accept as messages from my subconscious telling me what I need to know ;)

After a terrible bereavement some years ago I have very occasionally, only about three times, dreamed of the person who died, where they appeared to be at peace or just carrying on with their normal life.

I interpret this as meaning that, OK, it was awful to lose that beloved person and things will never be the same etc BUT life goes on and I can certainly cope. I am strong enough, and besides, the grief is normal and healthy in the circs.

Stiff upper lip, what!
 
Thank you for sharing is trite and unhelpful :( But I really do mean it Escargot and Cochise :grouphug:

posts which expand my world view - priceless!
 
escargot1 said:
Oh and Swifty - :shock:
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I think my dream was just a creepy coincidence ... I've dreamt about old women most of my life. Perhaps I'm some kind of split personality Norman Bates! the pattern and frequency of those dreams seems to have followed films I've watched: Pete's Dragon, The Wizard of Oz, The Evil Dead etc ... all films containing witches which is weird in itself because I've never known or had any serious problems from any 'bad' women in day to day life but I expect explains the prevalence of them in my dreams? ... I was told by my mum a few years after we moved from a childhood home that (again) an old woman had died in my bedroom which to me at the time explained why I had so many creepy old women dreams ...... then more recently in life I worked and lived in the Red Lion Hotel, Cromer and the same sort of stuff happened again l I've been having similar dreams when I crash out in our spare bedroom :shock: ..... I think a lot of it, I deal with it as BS to be honest.
 
Thanks Frideswide - it works both ways - it helps to be sharing too. :yeay:
 
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