Druids & Druidry

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Anonymous

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At the moment I am doing a course on Druids from The Order of Bards, Ovates and Druids. I was wondering whether anyone could recommend any decent books or websites other then their own where I can find some further information.

Any help will be greatfully appreciated.

Thanks Oggie
 
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Anonymous

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druids

Dear Oggie fan--we meet again !
I have a friend who is a British Isrialite and she knows all about this situation. I will get in touch and try and find something out for you


Barbara
 
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Anonymous

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oggiefan said:
At the moment I am doing a course on Druids from The Order of Bards, Ovates and Druids. I was wondering whether anyone could recommend any decent books or websites other then their own where I can find some further information.

Any help will be greatfully appreciated.

Thanks Oggie
Information about what, exactly? I've got loads of sites that might be suitable, dealing with Druidry, Paganism, Celticism, Wicca, Heathenism, archaeology, folklore etc. Just give a clue. Apologies to Barbara, but I don't think you'll find anything in British Israelism.
 
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Anonymous

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Druids

Hi there, I'm looking for websites/books which describe where they lived, how they lived etc, also about the Celts and Druidry but not Paganism though that is a sore point at the moment due to circumstances. Also about the various legends, saints etc who they worship. Also on visualisation techniques too.

Thanks Oggie.

Barbara I dont mean to be unkind but I think I will call it quits with you otherwise it will get into another sort of conversation and I dont wish to know. Besides I have enough on my plate at the moment with my group.
 
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Anonymous

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druid priest and culdee

I absolutely understand. No problem
Barbara
 

AlistairP3

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Ah, OBOD.

You have to write things if you join up on their bardic course, don't you?

Mostly cheques, I hear...
 
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Anonymous

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Courses and Cheques

Isnt that the same with any course you undertake whether its the OBOD or college, university or school, training no matter where it is doesnt come free. It depends on what you want to do with your life at the end of it and where you want to go.
 

AlistairP3

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I'm a very firm believer in the notion that there shouldn't be any costs whatsoever involved in magical or esoteric training or to attend rituals and the like.

This is for two reasons;

Firstly that if someone is charging, then they are far more likely to be a charlatan out to fleece people than someone who isn't. Sure, some flakes are in it for other type of gain (ego, sex etc.) than just monetary, but most of the flakes and charlatans are in it for material gain.

Secondly because I disagree with spiritual things becoming consumerised.

Sure, stuff used should be paid for, like books, but I think even charging for candles and incense and the like can lead to their unneccesary use and profits stuck on this, but I really disagree with any price being put on spiritual learning.

On monday I'm likely to get into a big argument because I'm going to have a lot to say at the local moot about a very flakey 'Native American' group that charges a fortune for sweatlodges and 'apprenticeships' that is trying to get its hooks into people.

As these things go OBOD isn't too bad, whose head of that now? It's one of the Phillip's isn't it? Is it the Phillip that hangs around with Bobcat or the other one with the double barelled surname? Car-gom?
 
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Anonymous

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OK, Oggie, if you want Druid stuff - don't read any Llewellyn books! Their stuff is sh*te - all Atlantis, crystals, dolphins etc.
Now, If you don't like OBOD, try the BDO: www.druidnet.org .
If you're in the North of England, there's SONG or Gawtons Grove .
Then there's the Loyal Arthurian Warband .
The Oakwise Druid Order has just been formed.
PADRAS carries lots of links.

There are lots of good books out there, but I haven't got a booklist - but I think there are a few folk on here who can oblige.
 
A

Anonymous

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OK Oggie - got a booklist for ya.

  • Phillip Carr Gomm - The Druid Renaissance
    Miranda Green - Exploring the Worlds of the Druids
    Caitlin Matthews - Elements of the Druid Tradition
    John Matthews - The Druid Source Book
    Ross Nichols - The Book of Druidry
    Nigel Pennick - Ogham and Coelbren: Mystic Signs & Symbols of the Celtic Druids
    Brian Branston - Lost Gods of England
    H.R. Ellis-Davidson - The Lost Beliefs of Northern Europe
    John & Caitlin Matthews - The Western Way
and just about any book by Ronald Hutton, Anne Ross, Phillip Shallcross & Emma Restall-Orr

Happy reading!
 
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Anonymous

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Thanks so much for the information provided

Hello there Alaistair P and Annasdottir, many thanks for providing me with a great list of links and books to read, I shall definately be checking those out asap. I am in the North of England, in the Kirklees area.

Alaistair, I do agree with you to a point I too dont think that groups should charge expensive prices to join rituals etc but I do think though that a reasonable amount should be expected to cover course materials plus you also get allocated a tutor with the OBOD which isnt too bad. Check out the site for the price its not that bad cheaper then going out for a night.

Thanks again guys for the info provided.
Oggie.

PS forgot to mention Phillip Carr Gomm is still the head.
 
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Anonymous

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celt druid and culdee

Hi Alistair
I have just found my magazine (british Isrealites) and realise I got the titles wrong--the are:
Celt Cruid and Culdee by Isabel Hill Keder
and Stonehenge and Druidism.If you need further details ie publisher etc please let me know. I am not a BI but I have a friend who is and this information is part of their theories, which believe me, give much food for thought, and the druids are part of the history--which goes back right to Abraham,
Barbara
 

Jerry_B

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The thing is to not make the assumption (or mistake) that any of these writers (apart from perhaps Anne Ross) and organisations actually have any real idea about what exactly real druids did WRT their religious practices and outlooks. IMHO, OBOD, etc. do not truly have anything to do with druids from history in any shape or form. It is more like an off-shoot of Victorian romanticism, or at worst New Age stuff.
 

AlistairP3

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IMHO, OBOD, etc. do not truly have anything to do with druids from history in any shape or form.

Well, that's sooort of true. It did mostly come from Iolo Morganwg(sp?) in the 19th century and was a reconstruction based on Roman writings, which are the only written materials about the droods that survive.

However, what else survived, and which some of the modern druidic stuff is based on, were the bardic tales and stories which survived in oral form and were passed down.
 
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Anonymous

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JerryB said:
The thing is to not make the assumption (or mistake) that any of these writers (apart from perhaps Anne Ross) and organisations actually have any real idea about what exactly real druids did WRT their religious practices and outlooks. IMHO, OBOD, etc. do not truly have anything to do with druids from history in any shape or form. It is more like an off-shoot of Victorian romanticism, or at worst New Age stuff.
Add Ron Hutton to Anne Ross - he's an ace historian who has already demolished some favourite Pagan-Revival ideas.
However, while it is true that modern Druidry has practically niothing to do with historical Druidry, that doesn't diminish its value as a spiritual practice/belief. Maybe Oggie isn't searching for historical validity, but spiritual truths to live by. The books in that list above all have something for someone who is searching for a spiritual ideal to follow, and I wouldn't call any of them "New Age"; from what I remember of my readings of them, most of them acknowledge the modern roots of it. And notice that I warned Oggie away from all the Llewellyn garbage - that is New Age rubbish.
 

Jerry_B

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My point was that such groups promote their own particular slant on 'druidism'. So it's basically a rewrite of a bit of speculation, which IMHO leads to a 'photocopy of a photocopy' situation. So in essence you're effectively subscribing to a certain view of what some people think something might have been, if you know what I mean. It's far removed from any historical realities. The fact that they also charge you for the priviledge is also a bit iffy, IMHO. It's only relating to things 'druid' in name only.
 
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Anonymous

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JerryB said:
My point was that such groups promote their own particular slant on 'druidism'. So it's basically a rewrite of a bit of speculation, which IMHO leads to a 'photocopy of a photocopy' situation. So in essence you're effectively subscribing to a certain view of what some people think something might have been, if you know what I mean. It's far removed from any historical realities.
Yes, I do know what you mean. That's why I reccomended such a wide range of books and websites - he ought to be able to get a decent perspective if he looks at them all.
The fact that they also charge you for the priviledge is also a bit iffy, IMHO. It's only relating to things 'druid' in name only.

ASAIK, only OBOD actually run courses - the others are happy to teach for free.
 
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Anonymous

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how long did druids service after the advent of christianity? i was watching the wickerman the other night and just wondered if there we're actually any sects that still existed that could trace their roots right the way back into history, rather than being the product of victorian romantic revisionism.
 

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Druid campaign for sacred sites

The skeleton was found in the cave about 26,000 years ago
A retired engineer from Swansea is campaigning for ancient burial sites to be considered sacred ground.
Chris Warwick, who is now a druid, said places like Paviland cave on Gower should be treated the same way as modern graveyards.

A skeleton, about 26,000 years old, was discovered in the cave in the 1800s and dubbed the red lady of Paviland.

Mr Warwick is setting up a group called "Dead to Rights" to work for the return of remains to such sites.

The druid is spending the weekend in the limestone cave to highlight his cause and to try to "balance the spiritual energies".

"Our feeling is that it isn't just modern graveyards that should be considered as sacred sites, but anywhere that a body has been buried with ceremonial intent," he said.

"We have formed a little group called Dead to Rights, to work for the return of remains to the sites they were buried in and hopefully have them reburied there with due ceremony.

"The sites would be regarded as sacred thereafter."

Discovered remains

Mr Warwick told BBC Wales there were plenty of sites across the world where bodies had been buried in pre-historical times.

He said he had decided to sleep in the cave so he could get in touch with the ancestors and find out what was "amiss" with the burial site.

"There's obviously going to be something amiss since the bones and the grave goods have been removed. then try to do what I can to alleviate the balance.

The remains of the red lady of Paviland were discovered by palaeontologist and clergyman Reverend William Buckland, who removed them from the cave.

Rev Buckland mistakenly assumed the skeleton was female - as it was dyed red - and dated back to Roman times.

It has since been identified as a man and many thousands of years older.

Grave robbing

The skeleton was taken to Oxford University, where it remains.

The Dead to Rights group believes the removal of the bones was a "desecration" of a sacred site and says they should be reburied in the cave or nearby "with due reverence".

Mr Warwick said he was happy for archaeologists to photograph and examine burial sites.

He added: "The more we find out about our ancestors the better, as far as I'm concerned. What I do object to though is the grave robbing that goes on - whichever way you put it, that's what it is."




http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wale ... 372598.stm
 

Jerry_B

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One has to aks how this 'druid' actually knows that the site was indeed sacred. A body being placed there does not necessarily make the site sacred.
 

rynner2

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Iron Age mystery of the 'Essex druid'
Grave near Colchester could be the first burial site of an ancient mystic ever to be discovered in Britain
By Andrew Johnson
Sunday, 20 April 2008

As sacred priests, their duties included teaching, law enforcement and possibly even burning people to death in giant wicker men. Druids dominated British culture with their mysterious magical rites in the centuries before the Roman invasion.

For such an important band of men, however – it could take 20 years to train to be a druid, according to some sources – hardly anything is known about them. That could be about to change now, though, after what is thought to be the first discovery in Britain of a druid grave.

The extraordinary find was made at the Essex village of Stanway, near Colchester. It is among a number of graves of eminent people interred around the time of the Roman invasion of Britain in AD43.

Following Queen Boudica's uprising in AD61, Emperor Claudius ordered the druids be wiped out. Their Anglesey stronghold and sacred groves were destroyed, along with their entire history.

In the grave, archaeologists uncovered a board game with the glass counters laid out, medical equipment – the earliest ever found – a tea strainer still containing some kind of herbal brew, and some mysterious metal poles.

The first find at the site was made in 1996. But now, after 12 years of painstaking digging and research, the final report into the unearthing suggests that the grave could be the only one of a druid ever found. The clues are not just in the objects buried with an obviously important man, but also in the way they are laid out. The metal rods, possibly used for divining, are in a specific order and near the surgical equipment – scalpel, surgical saw, hooks and forceps. There is also a jet bead, believed to have been seen as magical.

Writing in this month's British Archaeology magazine, the team of excavators from Colchester Archaeological Trust say: "It is hard to avoid the conclusion that he belonged to the stratum of late Iron Age society that comprised druids, diviners and healers. It is conceivable that this grave was the final resting place of a British druid."

Philip Crummy, director of the trust, remained cautious, adding that there may be other explanations. "In the report we draw the possibility that this man or woman was a druid," he said.

"The so-called druid could have been a doctor. The tea strainer contains artemisia pollen, which is commonly associated with herbal remedies. Healing is an attribute given to druids. We don't know what the metal rods are for, but we think they could have been used for divining. The question is whether all that stacks up to him being a druid. It could be – it was certainly somebody special."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/th ... 12194.html
 

OldTimeRadio

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....what is thought to be the first discovery in Britain of a druid grave....was made at the Essex village of Stanway, near Colchester. It is among a number of graves of eminent people interred around the time of the Roman invasion of Britain in AD43....In the grave, archaeologists uncovered.... medical equipment – the earliest ever found....
Is this correct? That the earliest-surviving medical equipment dates from after the time of Christ and even that discovered a mere 12 years ago? Nothing survives from Hellenic Greece or from Rome itself? There are no medical instruments excavated from the tombs of ancient Egyptian physicians?
Nothing from Babylon or Sumeria?
 

many_angled_one

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OldTimeRadio said:
Is this correct? That the earliest-surviving medical equipment dates from after the time of Christ and even that discovered a mere 12 years ago? Nothing survives from Hellenic Greece or from Rome itself? There are no medical instruments excavated from the tombs of ancient Egyptian physicians?
Nothing from Babylon or Sumeria?
I think they meant to append "In Britain" to that statement. I am that positive there are both Greek and Roman instruments still in existance, as well as Egyptian ones, not to mention neolithic stone instruments used for drilling holes in skulls (for relieving pressure from cranial bleeding/swelling etc or to let out evil spirts, take your pick)...
 

OldTimeRadio

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many_angled_one said:
I think they meant to append "In Britain" to that statement.
Thank you. That had occurred to me but the sentence seemed fairly declarative.

....not to mention neolithic stone instruments used for drilling holes in skulls....
Neolithic trepanation [did I spell that right? - my spell-checker's having a fit] occurred to me also, but I wasn't certain if there were specific stone tools that could be linked to the surgery.

(for relieving pressure from cranial bleeding/swelling etc or to let out evil spirts, take your pick)...
My vote's for the former.
 

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Historical information on The Druids

Further to Oggiefan's original request for reliable historically based information about the Druids, I would also recommend some of the (non-fiction) works of the Celtic historian Peter Berresford Ellis, particularly in this context The Druids (Constable, London, 1994).
(Ellis also writes fiction under the pen name Peter Tremayne.)
 
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Anonymous

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My problem with modern Druidism is that most of it is made up bollocks. There is no consistency or integrity to what actually constitutes the core beliefs of modern Druidism. So you get hordes of middle aged hippies all proclaiming to be "druids" but they cant tell you what there beliefs are since its so vague and meaningless. Modern druidism is really for spiritual drifters who are looking for something that is not too challenging for them so they can pretend to be spiritual, whilst they go about there day to day burger chomping existence.
 

Pietro_Mercurios

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wowsah156 said:
My problem with modern Druidism is that most of it is made up bollocks. There is no consistency or integrity to what actually constitutes the core beliefs of modern Druidism. So you get hordes of middle aged hippies all proclaiming to be "druids" but they cant tell you what there beliefs are since its so vague and meaningless. Modern druidism is really for spiritual drifters who are looking for something that is not too challenging for them so they can pretend to be spiritual, whilst they go about there day to day burger chomping existence.
Sounds like a preferable alternative to Scientology, or the Masons, at any rate. ;)
 

rynner2

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Pietro_Mercurios said:
Sounds like a preferable alternative to Scientology, or the Masons, at any rate. ;)
Maybe not...

Militant Druids fight museum over a 4,000-year-old skeleton called Charlie
By Alun Rees and Jonathan Petre
Last updated at 2:24 AM on 18th January 2009

A group of militant Druids has forced an expensive official inquiry after demanding that a museum releases a 4,000-year-old skeleton called 'Charlie' so they can rebury it.
They claim the bones of a young girl and seven other sets of prehistoric remains excavated near the ancient stone circle in Avebury, Wiltshire, are their 'tribal ancestors'.
If their claim is rejected, they have threatened to take a test case to the High Court under the Human Rights Act.

The row has triggered two years of meetings and reports by state-funded English Heritage and the charity The National Trust, which have been given powers by the Government to decide the case.
They are conducting a public consultation before issuing a judgment later this year. English Heritage said it could not estimate the cost but one source said: 'It could run into tens of thousands of pounds.'
Archaeologists fear that if the Druids' claims are successful, they could open the floodgates to increasingly bizarre demands, stripping museums of their collections.

Critics say the group making the claim, the Council of British Druids Orders, is unrepresentative and has hijacked legislation enacted after Tony Blair was lobbied to return Aboriginal remains kept in Britain, some of which were repatriated.

The Druids made their demand to the Alexander Keiller Museum in Avebury under the Human Tissue Act, which allows museums to return human remains.
They claim that remains in the museum include their ancestors Hawk, from the ancient Order of the Sidhe, and Lydia, Swordbearer of the Glastonbury Outer Order of Druids.

The Druids' reburials officer Paul Davies said: 'Our claim is based on ethics and the inextricable link between these our tribal ancestors and the landscape.'

Mr Davies admitted that his group was small and was itself split. A breakaway Arthurian Warband faction, led by the self-styled Uther Pendragon, who claims to be the reincarnation of King Arthur, demands an end to all archaeological digs around henges and barrows.
'The Warband split away from us so we have two groups calling themselves the Council of British Druid Orders,' said Mr Davies.

'But our group has a good relationship with English Heritage and The National Trust, who have held quarterly meetings with us and allowed us to have two beautiful healing sessions at the museum.'

Critics say modern Druids have very little connection with the ancient priests.
Mike Pitts, editor of British Archaeology, said: 'There are very small numbers who hold beliefs that they are chosen as Druids and have spiritual links with these places and the remains found in them.
'The notion that they should be custodians of these remains is preposterous. Some Druid groups are becoming increasingly militant and belligerent.'

Emma Restall Orr, a Druid priestess and founder of the more mainstream Honouring the Ancient Dead, said: 'The group making this claim is very small and some of their number are extremists.'

English Heritage said it recognised there were 'sensitive issues' involved and that it had to balance the claims of the Druids against the public interest.
A spokesman said: 'It is a test case and it is necessary to be thorough.'
The Department for Culture, Media and Sport said it had delegated powers to English Heritage and The National Trust and would not comment.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... arlie.html
 

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It might be worth considering that there isn't, technically, such a thing as "druidism". Forget all the New Age bollocks telling you otherwise.

Druids were the priests of the Celtic faiths. They were healers, they were conservers of knowledge, they were smart cookies. They were not a seperate religion.
The phrase "druidism" makes as much sense as "vicarism", A priest of the RC faith doesn't follow a different creed as an RC follower.
 

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Since when has a religion that was entirely invented around 200 years ago got any sort of tribal ancestors? Contemporary Druids have no connection with the ancient Druids except in their imagination....
 
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