Timble2 said:Since when has a religion that was entirely invented around 200 years ago got any sort of tribal ancestors? Contemporary Druids have no connection with the ancient Druids except in their imagination....
Timble2 said:Since when has a religion that was entirely invented around 200 years ago got any sort of tribal ancestors? Contemporary Druids have no connection with the ancient Druids except in their imagination....
ramonmercado said:Hmmm, just thinking. Some religions were invented even less than 200 years ago - eg Mormonism which was based on a bad early SF novel.
Mythopoeika said:ramonmercado said:Hmmm, just thinking. Some religions were invented even less than 200 years ago - eg Mormonism which was based on a bad early SF novel.
Mormonism - based on a bad SF novel? News to me.
Perhaps you are thinking of Scientology?
Solomon Spalding (1761 – October 20, 1816) was the author of the supposed Manuscript Story,[1] a work of fiction about the lost civilization of the mound builders of North America. After Spalding's death, a number of individuals suggested that Manuscript Story was identical or similar to portions of the Book of Mormon, a scripture in the Latter Day Saint movement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Spalding
View of the Hebrews is an 1823 book written by Ethan Smith (December 19, 1762 – August 29, 1849) which argues that native Americans were descended from the Hebrews. Numerous commentators on Mormon doctrine, from LDS Church general authority B. H. Roberts to biographer Fawn M. Brodie, have discussed the possibility that View of the Hebrews may have provided source material for the Book of Mormon, which Mormons believe was translated from ancient golden plates by Joseph Smith, Jr. [1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_of_the_Hebrews
Timble2 wrote
Since when has a religion that was entirely invented around 200 years ago got any sort of tribal ancestors? Contemporary Druids have no connection with the ancient Druids except in their imagination....
Druids in row over boy's skeleton
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 854134.stm
The skeleton, known as "Charlie", was discovered in 1929
A decision is due to be made over the future of a skeleton found near an ancient stone circle 80 years ago.
Druids have called for the remains of the three-year-old child to be reburied at Avebury, Wiltshire, out of respect.
But archaeologists insist the skeleton - currently on display at the Alexander Keiller museum - should be kept available for research and testing.
Public consultation on whether the remains should reburied ends this weekend.
English Heritage and the National Trust are due to make the decision on whether to rebury the skeleton on 31 January.
Human remains
The skeleton, known as "Charlie", was discovered at the nearby Neolithic site of Windmill Hill by archaeologist Alexander Keiller in 1929.
It has been on display at the local museum since it opened.
But in 2006 a claim was lodged by the Council of British Druid Orders to have Charlie and seven other human remains reburied.
Rollo Maughfling, the archdruid of Stonehenge and Glastonbury, said: "Beyond all the other philosophical, scientific and religious arguments, in the end it comes down to something called common human decency."
It's a very, very bad idea and it's entirely unnecessary, entirely unwarranted
Dr Josh Pollard, Bristol University
Fellow pagan Arthur Pendragon added: "These are human remains - you wouldn't dig your grandmother up from a churchyard."
But many archaeologists are unhappy that English Heritage and the National Trust are giving the druids' claim serious consideration.
Dr Josh Pollard, of Bristol University, said: "It's a very, very bad idea and it's entirely unnecessary, entirely unwarranted.
"I think it could set a very dangerous precedent, one in which we would find a situation where all prehistoric human remains held in museums, held in other collections across the United Kingdom, have to be reburied."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The full story features on Inside Out West on BBC One in the West region at 1930 GMT on Wednesday
Archdruid T James Jones installed at Wrexham eisteddfod
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/wales/10493684.stm
T James Jones is installed as the new archdruid of Wales in Wrexham T James Jones is installed as the new archdruid of Wales in Wrexham
The new archdruid of Wales has been installed as part of National Eisteddfod ceremonies in Wrexham.
The poet and playwright T James Jones succeeds the previous archdruid, Dic Jones, who died in 2009.
More than 1,000 people marched through Wrexham in the proclamation ceremony, highlighting that the town will host the 2011 National Eisteddfod.
Saturday's events include dance, song and instrumental performances by a number of local schools.
The Gorsedd of the Bards formed a procession through the town as part of the festival being held on Llwyn Isaf and Queens Square.
Mr Jones, whose bardic name is Jim Parc Nest, won the National Eisteddfod crown twice, and was the chaired bard at the Flintshire Eisteddfod in Mold in 2007.
Wrexham hosts the National Eisteddfod in August next year.
'Taste'
The proclamation festival includes handing the archdruid a copy of the list of competitors at next year's event.
National Eisteddfod chief executive Elfed Roberts said he hoped the proclamation festival would "give the people of Wrexham and the local area a taste of what's to come".
He said: "We are delighted that such a large number have responded to the invitations sent out to local schools, clubs and societies to take part in the proclamation festival."
This year's National Eisteddfod will be held on the old steelworks site on the outskirts of Ebbw Vale, Blaenau Gwent, from 31 July - 7 August.
Druidry to be classed as religion by Charity Commission
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11457795
Druids at Stonehenge Druidry is flourishing more now than at any time since the arrival of Christianity to Britain
Druidry is to become the first pagan practice to be given official recognition as a religion.
The Charity Commission has accepted that druids' worship of natural spirits could be seen as religious activity.
The Druid Network's charitable status entitles it to tax breaks, but the organisation says it does not earn enough to benefit from this.
The commission says the network's work in promoting druidry as a religion is in the public interest.
The move comes thousands of years after the first druids worshipped in Britain.
Continue reading the main story
Related stories
* Druids fear for Stonehenge centre
* Druids reburial appeal rebuffed
* Solstice sunrise obscured by fog
Druidry was one the first known spiritual practices in Britain, and druids existed in Celtic societies elsewhere in Europe as well.
Phil Ryder, chairman of the trustees of the Druid Network told the BBC: "It's nice to have that official recognition. It's not why we applied originally.
"We applied because we were legally obliged to do so."
He said the organisation represented around 350 people who had paid £10 each for membership but referred to a BBC Inside Out investigation from 2003 which suggested that up to 10,000 people described themselves as druids.
He added: "You have to apply [for charitable status] if you're an organisation that is taking money off people because the Inland Revenue want to know what you're doing with it."
Turning seasons
BBC religious affairs correspondent Robert Pigott says that with concern for the environment growing and the influence of mainstream faiths waning, druidry is flourishing more now than at any time since the arrival of Christianity.
Druidry's followers are not restricted to one god or creator, but worship the spirit they believe inhabits the earth and forces of nature such as thunder.
Druids also worship the spirits of places, such as mountains and rivers, with rituals focused particularly on the turning of the seasons.
After a four-year inquiry, the Charity Commission decided that druidry offered coherent practices for the worship of a supreme being, and provided a beneficial moral framework.
The decision will also mean that druidry will have the status of a genuine faith.
Continue reading the main story
“Start Quote
King Arthur Pendragon
We are looking at the indigenous religion of these isles - it's not a new religion but one of the oldest”
End Quote Arthur Pendragon Battle Chieftain of the Council of British Druid Orders
Referring to the tax breaks, Mr Ryder said: "For us that is a very small consideration because we don't really have that level of income to make that even an issue."
He said what was more important was that it would make administrative tasks a lot easier for the organisation.
"It does give recognition with local councils and people who provide premises and services to charities, who will only deal with registered charities," he said.
Senior druid King Arthur Pendragon, told the BBC News website the organisation had had to "jump through hoops" to meet the commission's requirements.
Although he runs his own druid order, he said the Druid Network's achievement was a celebration for all members of the faith.
He said: "We are looking at the indigenous religion of these isles - it's not a new religion but one of the oldest."
The 56-year-old added that people were becoming more interested in finding spirituality and the decision reflected this.
"I think people are looking to their roots and looking back at the secular world certain that things don't work.
"This decision shows how important our faith is. We are getting credence from a secular government about our belief structure - which not only shows it is valuable but also valued by us and others."
Mr Pendragon, of Stonehenge, said he would not be seeking charitable status for his own order - the Loyal Arthurian Warband - as it was a political wing and therefore had no need to be recognised as a charity.
misterwibble said:But since all religions are made up, does it matter whether they were made up 2000 years or 20 minutes ago?
misterwibble said:But since all religions are made up, does it matter whether they were made up 2000 years or 20 minutes ago?
OldTimeRadio said:misterwibble said:But since all religions are made up, does it matter whether they were made up 2000 years or 20 minutes ago?
I dunno. The religion I made up 20 minutes ago probably won't be around 20 minutes from now, let alone 2000 years.
Some religions seem to be made up better than others.
Archdruid's 2012 Olympic Welsh flag demand
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-13927002
The 2012 National Eisteddfod is taking place at the same time as the London Olympics
Related Stories
New archdruid at eisteddfod event
Poet and playwright new archdruid
The Archdruid of Wales wants the Welsh flag to be raised for Welsh medal winners at the 2012 London Olympics.
T James Jones has also called for the Welsh national anthem to be played instead of God Save The Queen.
At a speech marking the visit of the National Eisteddfod to Barry next year he said "Britishness" was endangering Welsh identity.
Welsh Conservative MP David Davies said he was "talking rubbish" as most Welsh people were proud to be British too.
Mr Jones - who was installed as Archdruid of Wales as part of National Eisteddfod ceremonies in Wrexham last year - made the speech - at a proclamation ceremony in Barry.
He said: "Since Eisteddfod Bro Morgannwg will be held at the same time as the Olympic Games, in addition to honouring all the eisteddfod winners we will also be rejoicing in the success of Welsh medal winners at the games.
"I call upon Welsh institutions . . . to urge the Olympic Games Authority to raise the Welsh Dragon, not the Union Jack, above individual Welsh medal winners, and to honour Welsh gold medal winners by playing Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau" [the Welsh National Anthem].
Mr Jones made the speech at Barry at the weekend
"I welcome other nations to join us in this aspiration, from Scotland to Cornwall, from Brittany to the Basque country and Catalonia, and indeed all the nations of the world that are fighting to retain their identity," he added.
He also used the speech to criticise the building of a military training academy at St Athan near Barry.
But Monmouthshire MP Mr Davies said Mr Jones was out of step with the majority of people in Wales.
"Only a tiny minority in Wales will agree with the Archdruid, who in my view is talking rubbish," he said.
"Most people are proud to be Welsh, but proud to be British too.
"There is a time to sing Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau and many of us do so with gusto at rugby matches.
"But at the Olympic Games, Welsh athletes will be representing Great Britain, and the appropriate anthem is God Save The Queen."
Eisteddfod names Christine James first woman archdruid
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-18563191
Christine James hoped to serve as a "worthy example" for other women and Welsh learners
Related Stories
Rugby star Shane's Gorsedd honour
Ex-Archdruid of Wales dies at 82
Eisteddfod must change warns AM
The first woman ever to become archdruid will lead the 2013 National eisteddfod ceremonies, it is announced.
Christine James, originally from Tonypandy, will take on the role for the event in Denbigh.
Mrs James, also the first Welsh learner to hold the post, was the only person nominated for the ceremonial title.
She won the crown at the 2005 National Eisteddfod for a collection of poems inspired by art at the National Museum Cardiff.
Continue reading the main story
Archdruid's duties
The archdruid is the leader of the Gorsedd of the Bards (the Gorsedd and the eisteddfod are independent of each other)
The archdruid leads the main ceremonies held during the eisteddfod week
Is elected for three years
The announcement was made on Saturday at the proclamation ceremony for the 2013 Denbighshire and District National Eisteddfod.
The archdruid traditionally hosts the main ceremonies at the annual Welsh cultural festival every August.
'Reason to rejoice'
The present archdruid Jim Parc Nest said: "Christine James is the first woman to be nominated as archdruid, and I am delighted to announce this today.
"Christine is also the first Welsh learner to be nominated to the post, which is also a reason for us to rejoice as a nation.
"Many congratulations to Christine on her nomination, and I very much hope that she will be addressing you all at the proclamation ceremony in twelve months' time."
Originally from Tonypandy in the Rhondda Valley, Ms James was brought up in an English-speaking household and learnt Welsh at school in Porth and Aberystwyth University.
She is a senior lecturer at the Hywel Teifi Academy, Swansea University, and lives in Cardiff.
She told BBC Wales: "We're making a little bit of history with my becoming the first female archdruid - I hope that I'll be a worthy example for many more female archdruids in the years to come.
"The Gorsedd as a body has been fairly conservative over the years but things are a-changing, to quote a famous song.
"I can't say I've got an agenda - my only aim at the moment is that I do good for the Gorsedd, for the eisteddfod, and the things for which those bodies stand for, in particular the Welsh language and Welsh culture.
"I'm very anxious that whatever I do as archdruid promotes those things."
Mrs James won the Crown at the Eryri and District National Eisteddfod in 2005 for her collection of poems, Lluniau Lliw, inspired by famous works of art at National Museum Cardiff.
She was admitted to the Gorsedd of Bards in 2002, and has been a member of the Gorsedd Board since 2010.
The current archdruid's period of office draws to a close at the end of the Vale of Glamorgan National Eisteddfod in August.
The new archdruid will take charge in June 2013 at the Proclamation Ceremony for the 2014 National Eisteddfod.
Stonehenge should display fake human remains, druid says
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-22438232
English Heritage plans to display the remains at the new Stonehenge visitor centre
A druid leader is calling for fake, rather than real, human remains to be put on display at Stonehenge.
In an open letter, King Arthur Pendragon criticised English Heritage for the "macabre manner" it plans to display "ancestral remains".
In 2011, he lost a High Court bid to have bones, found in 2008, reburied.
English Heritage said the remains were not from the 2008 excavation and their "presentation, treatment and storage" would follow strict UK guidelines.
The cremated remains of more than 40 bodies, thought to be at least 5,000 years old, were removed from a burial site at the ancient stone circle five years ago.
Continue reading the main story
“
Start Quote
[It provides] visitors with a direct connection to the people who lived and worked there”
English Heritage
According to Mr Pendragon, the bones were the remains of members of the "royal line" or "priest caste" who could have been the "founding fathers of this great nation".
"There are cremated remains and a full skeleton from one of the barrows, which they're planning to put on display," he said.
"This is not only out of step with the feelings of many of the peoples and groups that I represent but is surely against the driving cultural principles of a Unesco World Heritage Site."
The £27m scheme to build a new visitor centre and close the road alongside the ancient monument, is due to be completed by the end of the year.
Mr Pendragon said visitors would be "appalled" and unless "models and replicas" were used he could "not rule out non-violent direct action against the proposals".
'Visitors expect remains'
But a spokeswoman for English Heritage said visitor research showed the "vast majority of museum visitors are comfortable with, and often expect to see, human remains".
"The remains of three human burials found in the landscape will be displayed with ample explanation along with archaeological objects, providing visitors with a direct connection to the people who lived and worked there," she said.
"As such, we believe they have a rightful place in the exhibition and their presentation, treatment and storage will follow strict guidelines set out by the UK government's Department of Culture, Media and Sport."
Thoroughly enjoyed this older doco on Ben McBrady. He was a true shaman - a keeper of the knowledge of all tings. His theories regarding the Irish passage tombs and souterains as shelters from historical external calamities is interesting in light of the current theories that the passage tombs were actually closed up in antiquity as a response to meteoroid bombardment which turned the spiritual focus of mankind from the earth to the skies. I saw that idea in a doco from the Smithsonian channel. See if I can find that one for comparison.
In the meanwhilst:
There's an offshoot of Ben Brady's Old Gaelic Order called The Order of Druids in Ulster - spawned by one Clive Culbertson, the last herenach of Brady's knowledge and work.
Here's the background to the new order: http://orderofdruidsinulster.org/THE-OLD-GAELIC-ORDER.html