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Dying Alone & Loners' Unnoticed Deaths

I once looked out my 'hotel' window in downtown Cairo and saw two guys herding goats across a major road. In the rush hour. And no one thought it unusual. Marvelous city.
And what about the Pyramids and the Sphinx??
 
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I was in a minibus on a tour of Cairo, back in '92 when our driver announced that we would be going the wrong way down a one-way street, because it was quicker and "...it is only a five Egyptian pound fine, if the Police bother". Later there was the U-turn across three lanes of traffic so we could get a better look at the place, where President Sadat had been assassinated. As the traffic seems to keep flowing without the multiple collisions. The way the buses get used is amazing too, no-one bothers if bus is at an official stop. or whether or not it's moving.
I'm just wondering if Cairo could be the sort of place you could die without anyone noticing. There's a lot of dire poverty there as you know, but I think the Egyptian/Muslim way of life ie looking out for each other, knowing your neighbours etc, wouldn't allow it to happen.
 
Saw the movie '10 Rillington Place' and wanted to see that area - but I understand it's been torn down and reconstructed now?
And desperate to see Whitechapel and the JTR walking tour!!
Rillington Place was renamed Runton Close in the mid-50s before being demolished in 1970.

I used to collect old map books and have one of London with Rillington Place still marked.
 
On the topic of dying alone was there not a case in the UK (possibly mentioned before) of a young woman being found dead in her flat, having died 2 years previously and no one noticed?
 
Saw the movie '10 Rillington Place' and wanted to see that area - but I understand it's been torn down and reconstructed now?

10, Rillington Place was demolished in the early Seventies. Here it is in 1953, as onlookers watch its contents being cleared:

Rillington-Bartle-Fortean-04.jpg


Here is (what I believe to be) the house outlined in red; the garden (where some victims were buried) in green:

Rillington-Bartle-Fortean-03.jpg


As you say, the area has been extensively redeveloped. The exact locus of No.10 is now under a communal garden behind the newly-named Bartle Road:

Rillington-Bartle-Fortean.jpg


Centre of garden roughly:

51° 30' 56" N, 0° 12' 50" W

maximus otter
 
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On the topic of dying alone was there not a case in the UK (possibly mentioned before) of a young woman being found dead in her flat, having died 2 years previously and no one noticed?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1819513/

Doc about it. It's really moving.

And Wiki about Joyce, here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyce_Vincent

Her life in the 80s, compared to how it ended for her, is so shocking - such a contrast. The documentary answers some questions but poses others. That whole last part of her life is unknowable, even for her old friends. She probably dropped off the radar as she was trying to not be found by an abusive ex.
 
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I think that everyone who is a 'Covid shut-in' must suffer from some form of poor mental health now. They seem to still be going through the early Covid rituals, sanitising their shopping etc, which have been largely shown to be unnecessary. Even in the shop we've stopped sanitising the tills and card machines, as the general advice from Above is that as Covid is mostly spread by aerosol action, cleaning surfaces is unnecessary.

Mind you, we've not had Norovirus nearly as virulently this year as we usually do, and I suspect that's down to people hand-washing more.
I was just thinking about when there was an outbreak of covid last summer at son's workplace and they shut everything down, in the middle of the day, sent everyone to sit outside on the grass (sunny day) whilst they had contractors in to deep clean the shop. Omicron is everywhere, so that would be impossible, now. You'd be shutting down and deep cleaning retail and other public places every 2 hours...

And when a symptomatic idiot who was awaiting test results in our village in the early days, decided to go to the pub for a night out... Pub was shut down and deep cleaned the next day when her results came back. And then had to be all over FB explaining why they'd closed, and the resulting local kerfuffle over whether she was right or wrong to go for a night out when symptomatic and awaiting test results. (The icing on this cake was, she worked in a care home in the village!)
 
10, Rillington Place was demolished in the early Seventies. Here it is in 1953, as onlookers watch its contents being cleared:

Rillington-Bartle-Fortean-04.jpg


Here is (what I believe to be) the house outlined in red; the garden (where some victims were buried) in green:

Rillington-Bartle-Fortean-03.jpg


As you say, the area has been extensively redeveloped. The exact locus of No.10 is now under a communal garden behind the newly-named Bartle Road:

Rillington-Bartle-Fortean.jpg


Centre of garden roughly:

51° 30' 56" N, 0° 12' 50" W

maximus otter
We drive through Rillington (village in North Yorkshire) a lot. Every single time, my husband says in a sinister, Richard-Attenborough--in-character type voice: "Rillington Place".... He's done it for decades. He never doesn't do it.
 
10, Rillington Place was demolished in the early Seventies. Here it is in 1953, as onlookers watch its contents being cleared:

Rillington-Bartle-Fortean-04.jpg


Here is (what I believe to be) the house outlined in red; the garden (where some victims were buried) in green:

Rillington-Bartle-Fortean-03.jpg


As you say, the area has been extensively redeveloped. The exact locus of No.10 is now under a communal garden behind the newly-named Bartle Road:

Rillington-Bartle-Fortean.jpg


Centre of garden roughly:

51° 30' 56" N, 0° 12' 50" W

maximus otter
I guess it's to stop the ghouls who want to buy and live in 'murder houses' that they do this. And as a mark of respect to the victims.
 
I wonder if there are guidelines re. when to knock a place down? I mean, if there's been "just" one murder in a house, it's left standing but serial killers and notorious ones like say, Huntley, the house was erased from the face of the earth... I know Cromwell St was knocked down but what about the house the Wests owned previously, where they found a child's body, for example?

Often wonder this because I've researched 19thC crimes and the house where there was maybe an horrific murder, of a child say or a really super grisly murder - still standing today, when you go check it out, most times, anyway. I remember these beautiful mews houses in a suburb of York I used to go past for years thought they were so lovely I'd love to have one of them - then found an account of a particularly grisly child murder in Victorian times in one of those very houses... Current owner will have no clue. Must be the same all over. Murder houses that people have forgotten/never knew were murder houses. House I grew up in was so extreme, in some ways, in terms of the hauntings - that I have researched and researched to see if something newsworthy happened there. But have never found a single thing about it. Periodically, when I'm on the database of 19thC newspapers, and have a spare few minutes, I go check again.

(ETA: I know we've discussed murder houses elsewhere but it seems relevant here too).
 
I wonder if there are guidelines re. when to knock a place down? I mean, if there's been "just" one murder in a house, it's left standing but serial killers and notorious ones like say, Huntley, the house was erased from the face of the earth... I know Cromwell St was knocked down but what about the house the Wests owned previously, where they found a child's body, for example?

Often wonder this because I've researched 19thC crimes and the house where there was maybe an horrific murder, of a child say or a really super grisly murder - still standing today, when you go check it out, most times, anyway. I remember these beautiful mews houses in a suburb of York I used to go past for years thought they were so lovely I'd love to have one of them - then found an account of a particularly grisly child murder in Victorian times in one of those very houses... Current owner will have no clue. Must be the same all over. Murder houses that people have forgotten/never knew were murder houses. House I grew up in was so extreme, in some ways, in terms of the hauntings - that I have researched and researched to see if something newsworthy happened there. But have never found a single thing about it. Periodically, when I'm on the database of 19thC newspapers, and have a spare few minutes, I go check again.

(ETA: I know we've discussed murder houses elsewhere but it seems relevant here too).
Murder houses, yup. As you say, how much notoriety a crime attracts has a lot to do with whether or not it is later demolished.

When I drive or cycle round my home town I can pick out the local murder houses, where the crime has been committed in my lifetime.
While there weren't many, I expect I'm not the only person who does this.
 
Murder houses, yup. As you say, how much notoriety a crime attracts has a lot to do with whether or not it is later demolished.

When I drive or cycle round my home town I can pick out the local murder houses, where the crime has been committed in my lifetime.
While there weren't many, I expect I'm not the only person who does this.
LOL I do it like a tour guide when we drive through the next village. Most recent one only several years back. House is a very distinctive one as the victim was a high end estate agent so obviously got herself a good deal on this beautiful cottage... I never saw a For Sale sign go up, in the months following so assume her kids just moved in. Or maybe rented it out - because it would be worth a bomb in terms of rental.

Bet in the current market, murder houses are no longer even cheap.
 
Murder houses, yup. As you say, how much notoriety a crime attracts has a lot to do with whether or not it is later demolished.

When I drive or cycle round my home town I can pick out the local murder houses, where the crime has been committed in my lifetime.
While there weren't many, I expect I'm not the only person who does this.
I’ve had quite a few murder houses during my 36 years as a postman. Plus suicides,rapists,murderers and people locked up for extreme violence.There’s not much gets past me in Northwood.
 
It often makes me laugh when people (usually, to be fair, on Reddit,) start on about any paranormal goings on in houses. They are normally Americans and they start up with 'find out if someone ever DIED in the house.' Over here, where houses tend to be on the older side and it wasn't normal to die in hospital until fairly recently, just about every house that's over fifty years old will have had someone die in it. My parents both died (separately and years apart, there's no need to look at me like that) in their house. It's now been sold and is occupied by students. Wonder if they know or care that two people at least have died in there?
 
An Italian woman was found sitting in her chair an estimated 2 years after she'd died.
Body of 70-year-old Italian woman found sitting in chair, two years after her death

The body of a 70-year-old woman has been found in her house in northern Italy, two years after her death.

Marinella Beretta lived alone near Lake Como in Lombardy. Her decomposed body was discovered on Friday by the Como fire brigade following complaints that a tree had fallen in her garden as a result of overgrown vegetation ...

Beretta's body was found sitting in a chair in the living room, CNN affiliate SkyTg24 reported on Monday.

Manfredi told CNN that the cause of Beretta's death is unknown, and the examiner has established that she died sometime toward the end of 2019, based on the level of decay to her body.

No relatives of Beretta have yet come forward, Manfredi said, adding that police are investigating whether she had any surviving family. ...
FULL STORY: https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/09/europe/italian-woman-two-years-dead-intl-scli/index.html
 
@escargot will be able to say, but I know there is/was certainly a gravestone engraving place just down the road.
Down the road, but not adjacent or visible from the home. Nobody living or working at the home can see the cemetery or any associated business premises.
 
I’ve had quite a few murder houses during my 36 years as a postman. Plus suicides,rapists,murderers and people locked up for extreme violence.There’s not much gets past me in Northwood.
My husband was a postman for a few years. They know a lot of what goes on! Think he delivered some summonses, IIRC and more than once, people in his DO discovered suicides still hanging, etc. don't think he ever delivered to someone for months after they died and lay undiscovered...

Just realised, I inherited a small amount of money from my dad's cousin, last year. She would have been in her 80s. I recall only ever meeting her once - at my dad's funeral. She wasn't a total recluse, just elderly, and apparently had fallen ill quite suddenly. She lay dead in her house for a few weeks before she was found on the kitchen floor. Police discovered the body just as covid was kicking in so it wasn't til after the inquest, family knew she hadn't actually died of covid but at first that was what was suspected.

My husband had a very dear pal and colleague who died just before covid. He had been a soldier in the Gulf War and had bad lung damage, from some experiment done on the soldiers or something - so was comparatively young but pretty ill for the past few years and broke, like a lot of ex squaddies. He lived in a small council flat. Again, not at all a recluse, just timing. He left work one day, got home and dropped dead of his lung thing. When he didn't turn up for work the next morning, or answer his phone, colleagues started to worry. After a couple of days another of my husband's colleagues went round, and was so worried about him not replying to texts, she got into his flat (I dunno how). He was just sat up in a chair, dead. He must have died several days before, the last day he was at work. She was badly affected by it and refused to speak to anyone about what she saw, when she entered the flat - but at least his grown up kids didn't walk in and find him like that.
 
Apparently, she'd been there for 2 years. It's hard to imagine.

Italian woman found dead seated at table in mummified state​

Italian police have discovered the mummified remains of a 70-year-old woman sitting at a table more than two years after she died, prompting calls for better care for older people in the country.

Marinella Beretta, who had no living relatives, was found in her house in Prestino near Lake Como in northern Italy. Police stumbled upon her remains when they made a house call during high winds in Lombardy, which risked uprooting neglected trees in her garden.

She had not been seen by neighbours for at least two and a half years, according to Italian media reports.

“What happened to Marinella Beretta in Como, the forgotten loneliness, hurts our consciences,” the family minister, Elena Bonetti, said on Facebook. “We have a duty, as a community that wants to remain united, to remember her life … no one must be left alone.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...an-found-dead-seated-at-table-mummified-state
 
A woman went missing in 2020. A body - presumably hers, pending positive ID - was discovered when her house was being cleared out.
Body found at home of Tallahassee woman missing since 2020

Investigators responded to the home for a suspicious death around 1:50 p.m., according to the Tallahassee Online Police Statistics website, or TOPS. A spokesperson with TPD said the body was so badly decomposed that it would have to be sent to the crime lab for identification through DNA analysis.

The home once belonged to Avis Anderson who was last seen in the Fall of 2020. However, it had recently sold at auction and was in the process of being cleaned out, a family said. A partially-filled junk debris removal truck was surrounded by crime scene tape as investigators worked the scene.

Avis is a FAMU grad who had retired from the Florida Department of Revenue. A family member said she had been struggling before she disappeared. ...

When WCTV visited the home in 2020 after police publicly reported Anderson missing, a reporter found the front door ajar, public notices plastered on the window, and unopened packages collecting on the front stoop. Neighbors and family members of Anderson said cadaver dogs had been brought it at some point after her disappearance to search the home.

It has not been confirmed if the remains belong to Anderson. Police have not said whether foul play is suspected, nor how the body was found. ...
FULL STORY: https://www.wctv.tv/2022/06/04/body-found-home-tallahassee-woman-missing-since-2020/
 
An ex girlfriend back in the 80s used to live in a semi detached house in outer London and an elderly lady was found in the adjoining house after being dead for 3-4 days in the bedroom on the opposite side of the wall to my girlfriend's room. Creeped her out a bit , needless to say.
 
Could have been dead for 18 months.
.
Gardaí investigating the deaths of two UK pensioners who are feared to have been dead in their Tipperary home for 18 months will examine whether the Covid-19 virus played any role in the tragedy.

Toxicology tests are now set to prove critical in determining how and when the elderly UK couple died in the south Tipperary home they had secured for their Irish retirement.

It is feared the couple, who have not been formally identified but who were named locally as Nicholas and Hilary Smith, may have been dead for up to 18 months in their bungalow at Cloneen between Fethard and Mullinahone before they were discovered at 4pm on Monday. One theory now being examined is whether the Covid-19 virus played any role in the tragic deaths.

The grim discovery was made when gardaí called to the house after concerns about the two pensioners were brought to their attention by neighbours. Some people believed the couple had moved back to the UK during the pandemic with local reports indicating the couple, both aged in their late 70s, were last seen around late 2020 or early 2021.

Described as polite but very private, the couple kept to themselves since they moved to the area near the Kilkenny and Waterford border.
.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-ne...ve-been-dead-for-over-18-months-41776927.html
 
Another sad case...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-62269703

Peckham flat death: Peabody sorry for not spotting dead woman

A housing group that did not realise one of its residents had been dead for two and a half years has apologised.

Sheila Seleoane, 58, was found in her Peckham flat in February and had to be identified by dental records.

Residents repeatedly told Peabody of a foul stench and maggots in summer 2019. It only made one "proactive attempt" to contact the tenant and cut off her gas.

"We weren't asking the fundamental question: is Sheila OK?" Peabody's chief executive Ian McDermott admitted.

More at link above.
 
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