Education, Education, Education

Kondoru

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#91
Well, all I recall from my schooldays `was` Big Bill...

Just out of interest, would Japanese Kids be studying a cartoon?

(i know some Mangakas are taken very seriously, up with the philosophers in fact, but that is different)
 

Quake42

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#92
Without knowing exactly what they were teaching with The Simpsons, or how they were teaching it, I would hesitate to say whether 6 weeks was too much, or insufficient.
Exactly.

I can see that The Simpsons would be a great way to illustrate various media concepts. You could do one week on irony, one on parody, one on multiple layers... you get the picture. If this is what the school was doing, then great. They will have succeeded in teaching 12 year olds how to deal critically with source material, in a way that keeps their interest.

Of course, it's also quite possible that Yithian is right and the six lessons were simply a lazy teacher keeping the class quiet by letting them watch cartoons.

The point is that without a detailed lesson plan we just don't know - but it seems to me that there is nothing inherently wrong with spending a few hours educating kids via use of a familiar show.

Finally, the "six weeks" claims are rather misleading as they imply that the school devoted six entire weeks to studying the Simpsons, when what in fact the project took up one hour a week for six consecutive weeks. TBH, given the amount of downtime I remember from my school days, I can't see this being a problem even if Yith's worst fears were recognised.
 

Yithian

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#93
It's also important to remember that there are people who question the continued use of Shakespeare in the curriculum.
There are people who question whether evolution is really more likely than Genesis. That doesn't make it a cogent argument.

After all, the language is archaic
Common roots. Good for understanding syntax and parsing and studying history.

...and the subject matter is over 400 years old.
Somewhat of an underestimate.

And it's about a lot of things that people can't connect to, what with all the stuff about kings and battles and witches and ghosts...
It is very seldom about any of these things.

The Simpsons (which I enjoy) is inferior to Shakespeare in nearly every way. There, I've said it. Let's get to the heart of the matter.

I'll admit that you could - if you were an especially good teacher - get a lot from studying the Simpsons, perhaps six week's worth. Did that happen here? I don't know, but the odds seem against it.
 
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#95
I don't think theres anything wrong with using The Simpsons in this way; even for 6 weeks.

But Shakespeare wil live on. He wil be with us:
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time.
 

Dr_Baltar

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#96
theyithian said:
The Simpsons (which I enjoy) is inferior to Shakespeare in nearly every way. There, I've said it. Let's get to the heart of the matter.
Absolutely. However, one of the ways in which The Simpsons isn't inferior is when it comes to studying a module of a media course concentrating on aspects of television. As good as Bill is, he didn't do much writing for the telly that I'm aware of.

I'll admit that you could - if you were an especially good teacher - get a lot from studying the Simpsons, perhaps six week's worth. Did that happen here? I don't know, but the odds seem against it.
I'm not sure why you're quite so insistent on this point. You've basically stated that this was a lazy teacher plonking the kids down in front of cartoons for six weeks because they couldn't be bothered doing any "real" teaching, and then lying to the parents about what was going on.
 

Quake42

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#97
Absolutely. However, one of the ways in which The Simpsons isn't inferior is when it comes to studying a module of a media course concentrating on aspects of television.
Indeed. Again, this point seems to be getting lost in all of this. I'll reiterate - The Simpsons exercise was part of a media project. It was not an alternative to Shakespeare. IT WAS A DIFFERENT SUBJECT.

So statements such as:

The Simpsons (which I enjoy) is inferior to Shakespeare in nearly every way.
are meaningless. You may as well complain about a physics textbook or an atlas on the grounds that it is "inferior to Shakespeare".

As an aside, I do wonder how many of those who become exercised about the dumbing down of the curriculum, and the alleged Shakespeare deficit in particular, actually read or watch any Shakespeare plays on an even occasional basis. My guess would be not very many.

:?
 

rynner2

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#99
Some good news for those of us worried that the sciences were losing out to other subjects:

Science GCSEs prove a hit as students shun 'soft' subjects
GCSE entries for biology, physics and chemistry rise sharply while modern languages continue to decline
Jessica Shepherd, education correspondent guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 24 August 2010 09.39 BST

Attempts to convince teenagers to study individual sciences has paid off, according to today's GCSE results, which show huge increases in the number of pupils taking the subjects.

Entries for chemistry and physics rose by 32%, while those for biology grew by 28%, figures from the Joint Council for Qualifications show.

About 690,000 pupils from England, Wales and Northern Ireland received their results today. This summer they took almost 5.4m GCSEs.

Modern foreign languages continued a decline that has sparked fears from the Confederation of British Industry that UK businesses will be increasingly forced to recruit from overseas to meet a demand for language speakers.

Almost 19% of students sat biology GCSE, while 17.5% took physics and 18% took chemistry. Last year, the proportion of students who took separate sciences rose, but less sharply. Entries for biology grew by 18%, while for chemistry and physics they rose by 20% and 21%.

Almost three-quarters of students did not sit French GCSE and entries for the subject dropped by 6% this year to just 177,618. Entries for German fell by 4.5% to 70,169, but entries for Spanish grew by almost 1% to 67,707.

Ministers scrapped languages as a requirement at GCSE in 2004. Since then, the number of students taking one has dropped by a third.

Entries for Chinese are up by 5% and those for Polish and Portuguese grew by 12% and 10% respectively.

The rise in sciences may reflect some universities' preference for separate sciences. It also continues a trend seen last week in the A-level results, where students were said to be trying to recession-proof themselves by shunning so-called soft subjects in favour of science, economics and maths.

"Softer" subjects are less popular, the GCSE results show. PE, business studies and drama entries dropped by 9%, 7% and 6% respectively. Some 11% of students took business studies.

Almost seven in 10 (69.1%) GCSEs were graded an A* to C, compared with 67.1% last year.

Andrew Hall, from the AQA exam board, said it was a "great day for the sciences but a sad one for languages". French GCSE is out of the top 10 most popular subjects for the "first time in living memory".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/201 ... -education
 

Yithian

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I clearly haven't kept up; although I'd heard about the fact that languages have become non-compulsory (a regressive step, I believe, despite my own lack of ability)

During my time at school both languages and separate sciences were compulsory. IIRC, the only choices allowed were which humanities we selected: one or two, and which languages: one or two at the expense of a humanity or vice-versa. Mine was also, I believe, the last year in which one might have studied only ancient languages and no moderns, which was a fortunate escape for one as bungling at French as I was.
 

rynner2

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Long article:

Quango opposes crackdown on "Mickey Mouse" degrees
Civil servants who allocate billions of pounds to university teaching are secretly opposing moves which would ban spending on “Mickey Mouse” degree courses.
By David Barrett, Edward Malnick and Chris Buscombe
Published: 9:00AM BST 05 Sep 2010

They are the university degrees that even the government's own officials call "Mickey Mouse courses".

A far cry from the conventional humanities and sciences, a modern university education can involve studying subjects like pop music, puppetry, or the unorthodox combination of "waste management with dance".

An analysis of courses available through the university clearing system has disclosed that while most traditional courses are now full up, there are empty places in scores of "eccentric" degree courses.

Education experts said it was unfortunate that such courses appeared to be proliferating at a time when school-leavers with good grades could not get places in core academic subjects.

The Sunday Telegraph has learned that officials who allocate billions of pounds to university teaching are secretly opposing moves which would allow spending on such courses to be cut back.

Civil servants at the Higher Education Funding Council for England (HEFCE) want to avoid a debate over whether to change laws which currently prohibit ministers from instructing them to award money for "particular courses of study".

When approached by this newspaper with questions about unconventional degree courses, the agency accidentally released copies of internal emails which had been exchanged between its officials as they discussed how to respond to the questions.

An email from Toby West-Taylor, the agency's head of funding, which was intended only for colleagues, said: "The risk in highlighting this to a journalist at a time when a new HE [higher education] Bill could be on the horizon, is that it might prompt a lobby for there to be change to such sound legislation."

The funding agency even referred to the questionable degree subjects in a derogative way, with one of the accidentally-released emails carrying the subject heading "Response to The Sunday Telegraph on Mickey Mouse courses."

This newspaper did not use that phrase when posing the questions.

Following the revelations, David Willetts, the universities minister, predicted the end of "odd" courses as students face up to the new economic climate.

The clearing system, by which candidates who failed to get into their chosen university or college try and get places on other undersubscribed courses, began more than a fortnight ago.

Yet despite record demand for places at top universities, hundreds of places are still available in less well known higher education institutions, many of them offering unconventional courses.

Northampton University initially had 250 places available through the clearing system, including such courses as Third World Development with Pop Music, Dance with Equine Studies and joint honours in Waste Management and Dance.

The clearing web-site also invites school-leavers to consider a Tournament Golf foundation degree at Duchy College in Camborne, Cornwall.

The two-year course offers students the chance to "improve your tournament golf skills", and its admissions requirements indicate: "No handicap is definitive but the guide parameters are +5 to 3."

A spokeswoman for the college said: "The innovative programme gives young talented golfers the opportunity to chase their dreams whilst having the safety net of a UK university qualification to fall back on."

Glyndwr University, in Wrexham, still had 15 places available on its BSc (Hons) in Equestrian Psychology, which "investigates the unique partnership between horse and rider".

Subjects which were on offer through clearing at the start of last week, but which filled up during the week, included a degree course in Australian Studies, a joint honours degree in Criminology and Pop Music Production, and another combining Geology and Popular Culture.

Nick Seaton, chairman of the Campaign for Real Education, said: "It seems that many universities are going for the lowest common denominator just to get bums on seats and maximise their funding.

"It seems crazy that youngsters are getting good grades in serious subjects at A-level and then being denied places, while these sort of courses are proliferating."

etc, etc...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/un ... grees.html
 

Quake42

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Most Board members will know I'm not a fan of Michael Gove or the Coalition... but this seems a sensible approach. I don't think it should be retrosepctive though.

Baccalaureate league table plan angers heads

When England's secondary school league tables are published on Wednesday, they will include the new measure.

The tables will show what proportion of a school's pupils got at least a C in English, maths, science, a language and either geography or history at GCSE.

Education Secretary Michael Gove says this will show which schools give pupils a core academic knowledge.

He believes some schools boosted their league table positions in the past by entering students for "softer" subjects and vocational qualifications.

Head teachers say it is unfair to bring in the measure so quickly and before a planned shake-up of the curriculum goes ahead.

'Retrospective measure'
Schools will also still be measured against the existing key target of the percentage of pupils achieving five good GCSE passes including maths and English.

Brian Lightman, general secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders (ASCL) said: "This is simply a retrospective indicator. The government will say it is a starting point but levels will be low.

"It's an indicator over which schools have no control as it was not in place when the children concerned studied for their exams.

"This is going to disadvantage schools in poorer areas. This is a very academic qualification."

Education Secretary Michael Gove told BBC News that parents would welcome the new measure.

"It shines a light on what is happening in schools," he said.

"The English Baccalaureate does not force anyone to do anything but it does reveal the extent to which in the last 13 years we have seen a huge drop in the numbers of students doing modern languages, and overall that the number of students who have got GCSEs in English, maths, a foreign language, science and a humanity is not what it should be."

Under Labour, schools were told they no longer had to teach modern languages to children after the age of 14.

ASCL's Brian Lightman said: "We are in favour of a broad curriculum and for as many pupils as possible to get into the best universities - but education is not just about university entrance.

"This will devalue vocational education and marginalise it."

Mr Gove disputes that, saying there will be "more and better vocational paths", including the new university technology colleges, which will take pupils from the age of 14.

Moving goal posts

Some schools have already begun changing their curriculum to fall in step with the new measure.

Among them is Woodside High School in north London.

Head teacher Joan McVittie says the school was "the worst in London" when she was recruited to turn it around a few years ago.

It has improved markedly, but will get a very low ranking on the new measure.

"This is a major issue for us. We will be lucky to get three or four per cent [of pupils credited with achieving the English Bacc]," she said.

"We have already started to make changes because they have moved the goalposts. We want to continue to be seen as an improving school. But it will be hard on our children."

More than 80% of pupils at the school speak English as a second language.

"We struggle to make sure they are up to speed in English. For some of our children, the less demanding vocational route is the best option," Mrs McVittie said.

"We have been moving towards this more academic curriculum and if I was a head in a leafy area with English-speaking children, I would be following this type of curriculum. We built a curriculum which allows my children to achieve success."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12139650
 

Yithian

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In today's terms I'm practically palaeolithic in my educational philosophy. I'm not sure a national curriculum is a terribly good idea, I believe in selective education and I'd like to see a reduction in access to university with a concomitant commitment to higher academic standards and a huge expansion of post-18 vocational study. I'd even go as far as to say that private education should be subsidised by utilising the money that would have gone to the state schools had pupils attended them.

I'm actually not particularly impressed by league tables in any case. They're a horrible halfway measure that actually does harm. The gain of supposedly providing data for parents to make 'informed educational decisions' is bought at the expense of schools prioritising their league performance over the interests of their pupils. Furthermore, this information is still only of use to the minority who have a choice of which school to attend. All the time the educational market (for that is what tables promote) is distorted by the fact that parents don't generally have a choice and that bad schools seldom close, the league tables are actually a negative force.

All that having been said, if league tables are here to stay, I see the inclusion of this new information as a positive step. We may as well make the beastly things as accurate as possible. I bet a considerable number of schools will loathe the idea: it'll put their dubious practices in a spotlight.
 

Quake42

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What's particuarly shocking is that today's figures suggest that only 16% of candidates achieved an A-C in those core subjects.

I bet a considerable number of schools will loathe the idea: it'll put their dubious practices in a spotlight.
The difficulty is that head teachers live or die by the league tables. If they do well, or at least show an improvement, they are out of a job. It encourages a focus on league tables to the exclusion of all else and means that pupils are pushed towards "easier" and/or vocational subjects to maintain that all important league position. It all helps to hide the evidence that many state schools, especially in urban areas, are pretty dreadful. As the problems with these schools highlights lots of wider issues (deprivation; the effects of mass immigration; the grotesque advantage afforded to those whose parents coud pay for a private education) which both left and right have a vested interest in playing down, this has been a convenient fiction for successive governments.
 

rynner2

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'Gay lessons' in maths, geography and science
Children are to be taught about homosexuality in maths, geography and science lessons as part of a Government-backed drive to "celebrate the gay community".
By Jasper Copping 9:00PM GMT 22 Jan 2011 414

Lesson plans have been drawn up for pupils as young as four, in a scheme funded with a £35,000 grant from an education quango, the Training and Development Agency for Schools.
The initiative will be officially launched next month at the start of "LGBT History Month" – an initiative to encourage teaching about lesbian, gay, bisexual and transsexual issues.

The lesson plans, spread across the curriculum, will be offered to all schools, which can choose whether or not to make use of them.

But critics last night called the initiative a poor use of public money which could distract from the teaching of "core" subjects.

Among the suggestions are:

Maths – teaching statistics through census findings about the number of homosexuals in the population, and using gay characters in scenarios for maths problems;

Design and technology – encouraging pupils to make symbols linked to the gay rights movement;

Science – studying animal species where the male takes a leading role in raising young, such as emperor penguins and sea horses, and staging class discussions on different family structures, including same-sex parents;

Geography – examining the transformation of San Francisco's Castro district in the 1960s from a working-class Irish area to the world's first "gay neighbourhood", and considering why homosexuals move from the countryside to cities;

Languages – using gay characters in role play scenarios, and teaching "LGBT vocabulary".

The lesson plans, written by teachers and backed by the Department for Education, will be available for schools to download from the Schools Out website.

For younger children, the plans will suggest using images of same sex couples and also promoting books such as "And Tango Makes Three", which is about two male penguins raising a young chick, inspired by actual events at New York's Central Park Zoo.

The Schools Out organisation, which runs the month-long event, declares on its website that the aim is to "celebrate the lives and achievements of the LGBT community" and "encourage everyone to see diversity and cultural pluralism as positive forces".

However, Craig Whittaker, Conservative MP for Calder Valley and a member of the Education Select Committee, said: "This is nonsense.
We have enough problems in our country, where we are too far down the national comparative league tables in these core subjects.
"Teachers should concentrate on teaching the core subjects, so we become the best at those again. I don't see how introducing LGBT themes into those subjects is going to help.
"This is not about being homophobic, because there are other schemes around the education system which support the LGBT agenda."

John O'Connell, from the TaxPayers' Alliance, added: "Parents will wonder if this is the right use of funds and time in those subjects, particularly when we keep hearing how tight budgets are."

Sue Sanders, from Schools Out, defended the project.
She said: "These lessons are not big tub-thumping lessons about LGBT and nothing else.
"All we are attempting to do is remind teachers that LGBT people are part of the population and you can include them in most of your lessons when you are thinking inclusively."

David Watkins, a teacher involved in the scheme, said: "We don't want teachers to start out saying 'This is a gay lesson.' We just want lessons that don't ignore that there are lesbian and gay people who suffer from issues and problems.
"When you have a maths problem, why does it have to involve a straight family or a boyfriend and girlfriend? Why not two boys or two girls?
"It's not about teaching about gay sex, it is about images and exposing children to the idea that there are other types of people out there."

A spokesman for the TDA said the funding was secured last March and that £20,000 was to go towards the lesson plans, with the rest spent mostly on the website.

etc...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/ed ... ience.html
 

Yithian

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The Training and Development Agency for Schools is responsible for teacher training and is thus a contributor to the problem of our falling academic standards; I can't see this helping. Great use of 35 grand. :sceptic:

In my opinion, we (as a society) shouldn't teach children to 'celebrate' any particular sexuality; we should teach them to accept all of them. On a more general topic, I continue to believe schools should stick to education and children to upbringing. Yes, there's some overlap, but it is abundantly clear that by attempting both at school we fail in both arenas.
 

Cultjunky

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ramonmercado said:
In my opinion, we (as a society) shouldn't teach children to 'celebrate' any particular sexuality; we should teach them to accept all of them.
quote]

Would that include teaching children to accept the fact of intolerance?

I agree, that using sexuality statistics in maths does seem...a little out there, but where should issues of sexuality be brought up? Biology? That would give a very narrow view of sexuality, that couldn't encompass other aspects. Certainly the idea that some species are predominantly raised by the male, seems less about sexuality than about social structure within that species. The example cited regarding the Castro district may well be appropriate within a geography lesson, when looking at community migration. Although I think the significance of ecconomic power in a childless couple is also valid, and more thruthfull when looking at the change of community in the 60's Castro district.

It doesn't seem to sit well in any of the examples cited, which just tells me it is a waste of money.
 

Kondoru

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But of course if they do grow up homosexual, they are less likley to breed, and thus not contribute to the Population Problem.

But I think we should open their minds to other possibilities, such as bisexuality, and even asexuality
 

Yithian

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Cultjunky said:
Would that include teaching children to accept the fact of intolerance?
'Intolerant' isn't a sexuality.

What's more, I don't actually believe that you should, or indeed, can teach 'tolerance'; rather it's the by-product of all the other qualities education should inculcate. Scientific method, philosophy, the heterogeneousness of literature, the variety of languages and arts: these should all lead to a mindset open to multiple-truths and the discover of beauty in all places.
 

Yithian

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Andrew Neil tackles what I consider to be one of the most pressing issues in education:

Does a narrow social elite run the country?

After a turbulent week in Westminster, it seems that British politicians from all parties are being drawn from an ever smaller social pool, says broadcaster Andrew Neil. It wasn't always thus, so what's changed?

The resignations of shadow chancellor Alan Johnson and Tory communications director Andy Coulson spell bad news for an already-endangered species - political high-flyers from ordinary backgrounds.

Johnson and Coulson are council-house boys who never went to university but dragged themselves to the top by sheer hard work, ability and ambition. Look at today's top politicians - both on the right and the left - and you won't find many of their kind remaining.

I too was brought up in a council house but was luckier than Johnson or Coulson. I made it to an elite 16th Century grammar school in Paisley, Scotland and then Glasgow University, a world-class 15th Century institution.

I was part of the post-World War II meritocracy that slowly began to infiltrate the citadels of power, compete head-to-head against those with the "right" background and connections and - more often than not - win.

Of course, the public-school boys still held on to a disproportionate share of the top jobs. But the meritocrats were making great inroads, nowhere more than so than in politics - even at the very top.

The change was a social revolution. In the 50s and early 60s, Britain had one prime minister after another - Eden, Macmillan, Douglas-Home - who hadn't just gone to public school, they went to the same public school - Eton, naturally.

Then along came Labour's Harold Wilson in 1964, a Yorkshire grammar schoolboy and it looked as if things would never be the same again. For the next 33 years, every prime minister - Labour or Tory - was educated at a state school.

Nobody thought there would never be another public-school prime minister - just that a privileged background would no longer matter so much in climbing the greasy pole of politics.

I was pretty sure the meritocracy was here to stay.

It never dawned on me that by the start of the 21st Century it would come to a grinding halt.

Tony Blair, educated at Fettes - Scotland's poshest private school, broke the run of state-educated PMs when he won the 1997 general election.

On the face of it, that was not necessarily significant - Blair presided over the most state-educated, least Oxbridge cabinet in British history.
Continue reading the main story

But behind the scenes, the meritocracy was in trouble.

With the demise of the grammar schools, a new, largely public-school educated generation was taking over the Tories once more. And Labour was becoming much more middle-class and Oxbridge again.

Just a glance at today's political elite and it is clear the meritocracy is in trouble. Nobody can deny that our current crop of political leaders is bright.

But the pipeline which produces them has become narrower and more privileged.

Cameron, Clegg and Osborne all went to private schools with fees now higher than the average annual wage. Half the cabinet went to fee-paying schools - versus only 7% of the country - as did a third of all MPs.

After falling steadily for decades, the number of public-school MPs is on the rise once more, 20 of them from Eton alone - five more MPs than the previous Parliament.
Procession of Oxford University Dons in Trinity term, Oxford Oxford has produced 26 prime ministers and over 100 current MPs graduated from the institution

Top Labour politicians are less posh than the Tories or the Lib Dems but they are increasingly middle-class, Oxbridge-educated and have done nothing but politics.

Labour Leader Ed Miliband graduated in philosophy, politics and economics (PPE) from Oxford and was pretty quickly working for Gordon Brown. His brother David also did PPE at Oxford and was soon advising Tony Blair.

New shadow chancellor Ed Balls also went to Oxford after private school to do - you guessed it - PPE. It was there that he met his wife, the new shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper, who also happened to be doing PPE as well.

So why has politics become the preserve of the privileged once more?
'Widening gap'

The decline of the unions has clearly cut off one working-class route to Westminster. So has the decline of an affluent, aspiring working class, which seemed to disappear with the end of the Industrial Age.

Where were they educated?
Public or private schools


* Clement Attlee (Haileybury)
* Winston Churchill (Harrow and Royal Military)
* Tony Blair (Fettes)
* David Cameron (Eton)
* Nick Clegg (Westminster)
* Harriet Harman (St Paul's Girls)

State schools

* Margaret Thatcher (Kesteven and Grantham Girls)
* Vince Cable (Nunthorpe Grammar)
* Edward Health (Chatham House)
* Ed Miliband (Haverstock Comprehensive)
* John Major (Rutlish Grammar)
* Lord Callaghan (Portsmouth Northern Secondary)
But our education system must have something to do with it as well. Almost uniquely, Britain has developed a largely egalitarian non-selective state school system alongside an aggressive highly-selective private system. Perhaps it should be no surprise that the top jobs are once again falling into the lap of the latter.

The gap between state and private schools is wide and possibly getting wider. Almost one third of private-school pupils get at least three A-grade A-levels versus 7.5% of comprehensive pupils. It is a gap that has doubled since 1998, even though Labour doubled spending on schools.

Some think a return to selection by ability would give bright kids from ordinary backgrounds a leg up. But the 11-plus gave selection a bad name and neither Tory nor Labour politicians want to talk about it.

Maybe they're right but in the 21st Century, could it not be possible to come up with more sophisticated, more flexible forms of selection by ability which consign nobody to the educational dustbin? Could we not create, like the Germans, high quality vocational and technology schools every bit as good as academic hothouses?

Perhaps that's a pipedream, in which case prepare for our politics - already posh again - to become even posher.
?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12282505
It reminds me of Gordon Brown explaining - rather unfortunately - that he was the product of a failed experiment: a gift to cartoonist and sketch-writers nationwide.

Brown was educated first at Kirkcaldy West Primary School where he was selected for an experimental fast stream education programme, which took him two years early to Kirkcaldy High School for an academic hothouse education taught in separate classes.[26] At age 16 he wrote that he loathed and resented this "ludicrous" experiment on young lives.[27]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_bro ... Parliament
 

Stormkhan

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Pietro_Mercurios said:
One can certainly teach the meaning of 'tolerance'.
Intolerance is usually a product - or perhaps a by-product - of ignorance. Tolerance might be equated with understanding. I might not share the feeling of homosexual attraction but I can understand it.
 

Yithian

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East of Suez
Heckler20 said:
Stormkhan said:
I might not share the feeling of homosexual attraction but I can understand it.
27/1/11 the day my dreams shattered..... :cry:
Fret not, he was only denying a same-sex attraction within his own species. You'll still have the chance to enlighten him as to the possibilities of your tentaclely-appendages.
 
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