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Skeletonmaster said:
"....and apart from that the vast majority of Eqyptians have Muslims for well over 1000 years, and the ones that aren't are generally christians."

Yes, but one can be Christian, Jewish, Muslim or whatever and still get spooked by supposedly-defunct ancient superstitions.
 
Kondoru said:
"who was it said that the closest thing to an ancient egyptian is a modern one??"

Pretty much the same thing is also said about ancient vs. modern Greeks. I remember a travel guide to Greece which suggested that there was no need to go to the extra expense of hiring a translator to interpret ancient inscriptions. "Just ask your tour bus driver or taxicab driver or any other local to do that for you."
 
OldTimeRadio said:
Skeletonmaster said:
"....and apart from that the vast majority of Eqyptians have Muslims for well over 1000 years, and the ones that aren't are generally christians."

Yes, but one can be Christian, Jewish, Muslim or whatever and still get spooked by supposedly-defunct ancient superstitions.

True, but there's quite a difference between "getting spooked" and believing that the old gods will return, but then I guess the gods of the older religions can become the demons of the newer ones.

As I understand Egypt has been invaded and settled many times since pharaonic times. Greeks, Romans, and more recently Arabs have all invaded, settled and left their mark. I'd say the Egyptian people today are more Arabic than African, there are also quite a few minorities; Berbers, Bedouin Arabs, Nubians and Copts. I believe there's quite a lot of controversy about who is actually descended from the Ancient Egyptians, of course no-one can prove or disprove who is and who isn't.
 
Skeletonmaster said:
"there's quite a difference between 'getting spooked' and believing that the old gods will return>"

I've met more than one Christian in recent years who believe that at the End Times those "Ancient Gods" will indeed return to fight on the side of the Anti-Christ.

I suspect that if otherwise-orthodox and observant Christians can hold such beliefs, so can Muslims.
 
OldTimeRadio said:
I suspect that if otherwise-orthodox and observant Christians can hold such beliefs, so can Muslims.

Equally you get syncretism (most intrusive religious overlie older ones that never really went away) and fusion (where different religions could end up sharing beliefs) - so anything is possible.

Anyone know of Muslim apocalyptic traditions?
 
Skeletonmaster said:
OldTimeRadio said:
Skeletonmaster said:
"....and apart from that the vast majority of Eqyptians have Muslims for well over 1000 years, and the ones that aren't are generally christians."

Yes, but one can be Christian, Jewish, Muslim or whatever and still get spooked by supposedly-defunct ancient superstitions.

True, but there's quite a difference between "getting spooked" and believing that the old gods will return, but then I guess the gods of the older religions can become the demons of the newer ones.

As I understand Egypt has been invaded and settled many times since pharaonic times. Greeks, Romans, and more recently Arabs have all invaded, settled and left their mark. I'd say the Egyptian people today are more Arabic than African, there are also quite a few minorities; Berbers, Bedouin Arabs, Nubians and Copts. I believe there's quite a lot of controversy about who is actually descended from the Ancient Egyptians, of course no-one can prove or disprove who is and who isn't.

What about DNA analysis? Since we have remains of ancient Egyptians.
 
It would be very interesting to find out the results of any DNA analysis that's been done on this subject, and I guess it would probably lay any controversy about who is descended from who to rest. Has anyone heard of any research being done on this subject? I haven't myself, but I think the results would be very interesting.

Muslim apocalyptic traditions are something I know absolutely nothing about, but if anyone knows anything, I'd be interested to hear about it.
 
Very interesting.

I cannot help but wonder, especially after reading that, if the reason behind the lack of research into who are the real "descendants" of the ancient egyptians is in some way political. What I mean is that if the reseach was done and the results proved that a minority group, like the Coptic Christians for example, were the true descendants of the ancient Egyptians, then the current Egyptian government might consider that politically sensitive. Which is a shame really, because it's a fascinating subject.
 
Edit to change title & tidy up text.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/01/070129100250.htm


Source: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
Date: January 30, 2007

Earliest Semitic Text Revealed In Egyptian Pyramid Inscription

Science Daily — The first public revelation of the earliest continuous Semitic text ever deciphered has taken place at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

The presentation was made by Prof. Richard Steiner, professor of Semitic languages and literature at Yeshiva University in New York, in a lecture entitled "Proto-Canaanite Spells in the Pyramid Texts: a First Look at the History of Hebrew in the Third Millennium B.C.E." The lecture was sponsored by the Academy of the Hebrew Language in cooperation with the Hebrew University and the World Union of Jewish Studies.

Prof. Steiner, a past fellow of the Institute for Advanced Studies at the Hebrew University and a member of the Academy of the Hebrew Language, has deciphered a number of Semitic texts in various Egyptian scripts over the past 25 years. In his Hebrew University lecture, he provided the interpretation for Semitic-passages in Egyptian texts that were discovered more than a century ago, inscribed on the subterranean walls of the pyramid of King Unas at Saqqara in Egypt. The pyramid dates from the 24th century B.C.E., but Egyptologists agree that the texts are older. The dates proposed for them range from the 25th to the 30th centuries B.C.E. No continuous Semitic-texts from this period have ever been deciphered before.

The passages, serpent-spells written in hieroglyphic characters, had puzzled scholars who tried to read them as if they were ordinary Egyptian texts. In August, 2002, Prof. Steiner received an email message from Robert Ritner, professor of Egyptology at the University of Chicago, asking whether any of them could be Semitic. "I immediately

recognized the Semitic words for 'mother snake,'" said Steiner. "Later it became clear that the surrounding spells, composed in Egyptian rather than Semitic, also speak of the mother snake, and that the Egyptian and Semitic-texts elucidate each other."

Although written in Egyptian characters, the texts turned out to be composed in the Semitic language spoken by the Canaanites in the third millennium B.C.E., a very archaic form of the languages later known as Phoenician and Hebrew. The Canaanite priests of the ancient city of Byblos, in present-day Lebanon, provided these texts to the kings of Egypt.

The port city of Byblos was of vital importance for the ancient Egyptians. It was from there that they imported timber for construction and resin for mummification. The new discovery shows that they also imported magical spells to protect royal mummies against poisonous-snakes that were thought to understand Canaanite. Although the Egyptians viewed their culture as far superior to that of their neighbors, their morbid fear of snakes made them open to the borrowing of Semitic-magic.

"This finding should be of great interest to cultural historians," said Prof. Steiner. "Linguists, too, will be interested in these texts. They show that Proto-Canaanite, the common ancestor of Phoenician, Moabite, Ammonite and Hebrew, existed already in the third millennium B.C.E as a language distinct from Aramaic, Ugaritic and the other Semitic-languages. And they provide the first direct evidence for the pronunciation of Egyptian in this early period." The texts will also be important to biblical scholars, since they shed light on several rare words in the Bible, he said.

"This is a sensational discovery," said Moshe Bar-Asher, Bialik Professor of Hebrew Language at the Hebrew University and president of the Academy of the Hebrew Language. "It is the earliest attestation of a Semitic language, in general, and Proto-Canaanite, in particular."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/01/070129100250.htm
Note: This story has been adapted from a news release issued by The Hebrew University of Jerusalem.
 
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Putting this up as a new thread but there may be suitable existing ones. Suggestions?

Archaeologists unearth unique Egyptian boat from the pyramid age
February 3, 2016 in Other Sciences / Archaeology & Fossils

Charles University in Prague has recently made an unexpected discovery at Abusir South that once again highlights the importance of this cemetery of the Old Kingdom officials. Work commenced in 2009 on a large mastaba termed AS 54, followed by several seasons of excavations. Its exceptional size (52.60 x 23.80 m), orientation, architectural details, as well as the name of king Huni (Third Dynasty,) discovered on one of the stone bowls buried in the northern underground chamber, indicate the high social standing of the person buried in the main (so far unlocated) shaft. Unfortunately, his name remains unknown due to the bad state of preservation of the cruciform chapel.

Clearing the area south of Mastaba AS 54 revealed an 18 m-long wooden boat during the 2015 excavation season. It was lying on tafla, covered with the wind-blown sand. Although the boat is situated almost 12 m south of Mastaba AS 54, its orientation, length, and the pottery collected from its interior, make a clear connection between the structure and the vessel, both dating to the very end of the Third or beginning of the Fourth Dynasty, ca 2550 BC.

While extremely fragile, the roughly 4,500 year old planks will shed new light on ship building in ancient Egypt. The wooden planks were joined by wooden pegs that are still visible in their original position. Extraordinarily, the desert sand has preserved the plant fiber battens which covered the planking seams. Some of the ropes that bound the boat together are also still in their original position with all their details intact, which is a unique discovery in the study of ancient Egyptian boats. All these minute details are of the highest importance, since most of the ancient Egyptian boats and ships have survived either in poor state of preservation, or were dismantled in pieces. During the 2016 season, the Czech Institute of Egyptology will launch a project, together with experts from the Institute of Nautical Archaeology (INA) at Texas A&M University, to study the techniques used in the hull's construction.

The construction details are not the only features that make the boat unique. The habit of burying boats beside mastabas began in the Early Dynastic Period. This phenomenon has been well documented for royal structures, as well as for some tombs belonging to members of the royal family, the elite of society. Dr. Miroslav Bárta, director of the mission notes: "In fact, this is a highly unusual discovery since boats of such a size and construction were, during this period, reserved solely for top members of the society, who usually belonged to the royal family. This suggests the potential for additional discoveries during the next spring season." ...

http://phys.org/news/2016-02-archaeologists-unearth-unique-egyptian-boat.html
 
Archaeologists unearth unique Egyptian boat from the pyramid age
February 3, 2016 in Other Sciences / Archaeology & Fossils

http://phys.org/news/2016-02-archaeologists-unearth-unique-egyptian-boat.html

I can't find any other threads on Egyptian boats, but the other boats that have been found are covered here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khufu_ship

Wood for boat-building was in short supply in Egypt - Lebanese cedar was probably the best resource in the region.
But reed boats were also used in Egypt, and in fact many details of the wooden boats we know of tended to follow the reed boat designs. Probably only the Kings could afford timber, and everyone else made do with reeds! It will be interesting if the timber used in the new find at Abusir South can be identified.

Thor Heyerdahl, the Norwegian adventurer, took two Egyptian-style reed boats right across the Atlantic to test their sea-going abilities:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor_Heyerdahl#Boats_Ra_and_Ra_II
 
Older than the pyramids.

A team of researchers in Germany has found evidence suggesting that the famous wooden Shirgir Idol is actually 11,500 years old. The team has documented their efforts and findings in a paper published on the Cambridge University Press site Antiquity.

The Shigir Idol was discovered in an ancient peat bog by miners in Russia back in 1890. Early analysis showed that it was made entirely of larch wood and was constructed from several chunks. It remained preserved for thousands of years because of antimicrobial properties found in the peat. The idol was also covered extensively with markings, some of which depicted tiny human faces. To this day, no one knows what most of the markings depict. It was also noted that some of the original pieces of the idol had been lost—it is believed that it originally stood approximately five meters tall. In 1997, a team in Russia used radiocarbon dating to estimate the age of the icon and found it to be approximately 9,500 years old.

Experts have studied the carvings on the idol over the years, and many have suggested they likely represent a form of art, possibly linked with spiritual or religious activities.

https://phys.org/news/2018-04-wooden-shigir-idol-egyptian-pyramids.html

You're correct of course. The part about being older than the Pyramids stuck in my mind when I searching for an appropriate home and I put it here rather than in an ice Age, Bog Finds or Russian Archaeology Thread. I'll find a better berth for it.
 
A 30-ton archeological sarcophagus was found below a building in Alexandria governorate, Egypt, by the security forces on Sunday.

Inspection of the sarcophagus revealed that it is made of black granite of about 265 [centi]meters in length and it has a height of 185 cm; the security forces coordinated with the Engineering Department of the Armed Forces, as well as the Tourism police to extract the sarcophagus.

Ayman Ashmawy Head of the Ancient Egyptian Antiquities Sector said that the tomb was found at a depth of 5 m beneath the surface of the land. It is noted that there is a layer of mortar between the lid and the body of the sarcophagus indicating that it had not been opened since it was closed in antiquity.

Alexandria is full of ancient Egyptian antiquities, which makes citizens illegally dig to search for these monuments below their buildings.

In 2015, the security forces arrested three brothers with 35 artifacts in their possession; the brothers were digging below their homes in search for more artifacts.


https://www.egypttoday.com/Article/...phagus-found-by-security-forces-in-Alexandria
 
A 30-ton archeological sarcophagus was found below a building in Alexandria governorate, Egypt, by the security forces on Sunday.

Inspection of the sarcophagus revealed that it is made of black granite of about 265 [centi]meters in length and it has a height of 185 cm; the security forces coordinated with the Engineering Department of the Armed Forces, as well as the Tourism police to extract the sarcophagus.

Ayman Ashmawy Head of the Ancient Egyptian Antiquities Sector said that the tomb was found at a depth of 5 m beneath the surface of the land. It is noted that there is a layer of mortar between the lid and the body of the sarcophagus indicating that it had not been opened since it was closed in antiquity.

Alexandria is full of ancient Egyptian antiquities, which makes citizens illegally dig to search for these monuments below their buildings.

In 2015, the security forces arrested three brothers with 35 artifacts in their possession; the brothers were digging below their homes in search for more artifacts.


https://www.egypttoday.com/Article/...phagus-found-by-security-forces-in-Alexandria
egypt-sarco-1_600.jpg
 
A stone sarcophagus of that quality could indicate royalty.
Most of them were made of wood.
 
The sarcophagus has been opened. And it's a bit stinky. No obvious curse or undead wanting to reclaim its throne.

It was full of human bones and sewage.More specifically, archaeologists from Egypt’s Ministry of Antiquities found three male skeletons in a reddish-brown slop. The ministry believes the men interred there may have been warriors since one of the skulls showed signs of an injury caused by an arrow. The sludge, they think, leaked into the sarcophagus from a nearby sewage trough.

https://gizmodo.com/big-mysterious-sarcophagus-opened-sucks-1827722447
 
The sarcophagus has been opened. And it's a bit stinky. No obvious curse or undead wanting to reclaim its throne.

It was full of human bones and sewage.More specifically, archaeologists from Egypt’s Ministry of Antiquities found three male skeletons in a reddish-brown slop. The ministry believes the men interred there may have been warriors since one of the skulls showed signs of an injury caused by an arrow. The sludge, they think, leaked into the sarcophagus from a nearby sewage trough.

https://gizmodo.com/big-mysterious-sarcophagus-opened-sucks-1827722447
Awww, no.
 
The recent discovery and opening of the Alexandria sarcophagus has set off a diverse set of reactions. This article from Scientific American examines the situation in terms of residual Western Egyptomania, stressed people seeking resolutions, and the effects of social media ...

Why Do People Want to Drink the Sarcophagus Water?
Earlier this month a large, sealed sarcophagus was discovered in Alexandria, Egypt along with an alabaster head believed to represent the person inside. Since we live in the digital age, we didn’t have to wait days or weeks for the news to travel across around the world, and the public’s imagination was instantly captivated on social media. We learned that the sarcophagus was made of black granite, that it was large—8 feet by 4 feet by 5 feet—which may make it potentially the largest sarcophagus found—and that it appeared to have been untouched. We learned that it dates to 304 and 30 BC, so sometime after the death of Alexander the Great when the descendents of Ptolemy I ruled Egypt. This was exciting stuff, and the public had questions. Why was it so large? Who was inside? Maybe Alexander the Great himself? What treasures would we find inside?

Calls to open the sarcophagus mounted on Twitter with people speculating that doing so would unleash a curse or bring about the end of the world. Well, scientists opened the sarcophagus. There was no curse (that we know of); it was not Alexander the Great; and there were no grave goods. The sarcophagus contained three skeletons, and a reddish liquid that Eqyptian officials are reporting is sewage. Memes have sprung up that blame the sarcophagus for random occurrences. And yet we couldn’t just walk away. An online petition with over 23,000 signatures at the time of publication is demanding that the public be allowed to drink the fluid—“so we can assume its powers and finally die.”

It feels like just another day online but everything about our response to the find and now the demand to drink the fluid is deeply reflective of our relationship with Egyptian culture, our current social psychological state, and the rise of the attention economy. It’s a lot. Basically, this plea to drink the sarcophagus water is a snapshot of who we are right now and all of our anxieties rolled into one. ...

FULL STORY: https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...o-people-want-to-drink-the-sarcophagus-water/
 
I can't comment on the pure electromagnetic elements, of this, I can add that their assumption of no other major unknown voids in the pyramid is already shot:

https://news.nationalgeographic.com...za-void-discovered-khufu-archaeology-science/

Their data predates this discovery late last year.
Also, from memory, having been there in 2002, the lining of the grand gallery staircase is granite, not limestone, as are significant structures within it, such as the layers above the ceiling of the king's chamber.

Wasn't there quite a bit in Lyall Watson's Supernature about the electromagnetic properties of things like standing stones, henges and dolmens?
 
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Sphinx found

While draining water from the temple of Kom Ombo. 38cm high, dating between 305 - 30BC. It follows two other sandstone reliefs – both of King Ptolemy V – being found there earlier this year.

Ptolemy V, who ruled from 210BC until 180BC, is especially famed among ancient Egyptian leaders because his deeds are charted on the Rosetta Stone – which would eventually help modern-day experts learn to read hieroglyphs.

The antiquities ministry says the temple of Kom Ombo was built during the reign of his son, Ptolemy VI. It hosted the twin gods Sobek and Haroeris.

Looks in amazing condition

sphinx.jpg
 
As a non-expert, I look at that face and immediately think 'Graeco-Roman Influence: therefore Late'.
 
As in not the real deal.

I'm not claiming it's fake--I'm certainly not qualified to make that kind of call, but the Egyptians had a style (a succession of them actually) and late in the day they were diluting it quite a bit with outside influences.

I can almost imagine that Sphinx phoning to book a reiki healing session while sipping a skinny macchiato.
 
I'm not claiming it's fake--I'm certainly not qualified to make that kind of call, but the Egyptians had a style (a succession of them actually) and late in the day they were diluting it quite a bit with outside influences.

I can almost imagine that Sphinx phoning to book a reiki healing session while sipping a skinny macchiato.
I meant not the real deal as in "not real Egyptian stuff", as they're made by the greek occupants.
 
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