Electric Cars

Ascalon said:
Any references for that? Lithium in particular is abundant, near the surface in a lot of places and new deposits are being found all the time. Even the term Rare Earth Minerals is increasingly inaccurate.

On what evidence are you making this assertion?
If this is based on the 15 minutes city conspiracy argument then it is hollow.
Why do you think movement will be restricted in the future?
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It's not a conspiracy.

It's an objective of the WEF to have them slowly introduced. It's on their website somewhere.

edit:

Found it.

https://www.weforum.org/stories/2022/03/15-minute-city-stickiness/
 
Ascalon said:
Any references for that? Lithium in particular is abundant, near the surface in a lot of places and new deposits are being found all the time. Even the term Rare Earth Minerals is increasingly inaccurate.
Click to expand...
I'm already aware of what you have just said.
If you are talking about global car replacement to EVs, there will be supply issues and extremely high prices because of demand.
Much of that lithium is in locations where it would be uneconomical to start mining.
There is also the location of deposits near populated areas to consider - in many cases, it would cause major pollution and the local population would oppose it.
If we switch to some other battery technology that uses common materials (such as carbon), then perhaps this goal might be achievable... if prices fall low enough to permit it.
 
Mythopoeika said:
I'm already aware of what you have just said.
If you are talking about global car replacement to EVs, there will be supply issues and extremely high prices because of demand.
Much of that lithium is in locations where it would be uneconomical to start mining.
There is also the location of deposits near populated areas to consider - in many cases, it would cause major pollution and the local population would oppose it.
If we switch to some other battery technology that uses common materials (such as carbon), then perhaps this goal might be achievable... if prices fall low enough to permit it.
Click to expand...
That's a good point. I've seen a lot of good results around sodium based batteries as well as graphene that might mean less reliance on lithium.
Also, there are new techniques for extracting lithium, particularly those that are deposits from old lakes that mean they are not as damaging as step mining.
 
Ascalon said:
Did you read it?
Where does it say anything about restricting people to their locale only?
Click to expand...
No I didn't read it as in the recent past I've read so much about it already and last year I listened to two talks given by Claus Schwab (executive chairman of the WEF).

This is the wrong thread to discuss 15 minutes cities. My point was the idea is not a conspiracy theory.
 

Electric cars break down more than petrol vehicles, warns AA​


Motoring association says belief in better reliability of EVs is a ‘common misconception’

Electric cars break down more often than petrol and diesel vehicles, the Automobile Association (AA) has warned.

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Jakob Pfaudler, boss of the breakdown service, said electric vehicles (EVs) were prone not only to punctures and flat batteries, but also to a host of specific problems such as jammed charging cables and technical glitches.

He said: “There’s a common misconception that electric vehicles break down less frequently than petrol and diesel vehicles.

“Currently, at least, that is not the case. The breakdown rate is, in fact, slightly higher for electric vehicles than for internal combustion-engine vehicles.”

Edmund King, AA president, added that EV drivers were often flustered by the technology and respond to warning lights by immediately shutting down their cars on the roadside.

That is unlike petrol motorists, he said, who were more likely to drive to the nearest garage when confronted with an oil pressure alert.

However, Mr King added that around 90pc of breakdowns involving EVs could be dealt with at the roadside versus 86pc for regular cars, with technicians able to fix problems such as computer glitches through a simple reboot.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...s-breaking-down-more-than-petrol-vehicles-aa/

maximus otter
 
In 2022 Sadiq Khan hailed London Fire Brigade’s introduction of ZEPA1 – the UK’s first electric fire engine. He said “emergency services are a key part of our clean air goals, and this high-performance green fire engine will help to ensure Londoners breathe cleaner air whilst working to tackle blazes across the city.” It is based at Hammersmith basement and is equipped with 280kWh battery for 200 miles of range.

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Only one problem so far…

The EV fire engine has never been used to put out an actual fire. In fact it has not been used in any live incidents whatsoever since it was introduced in 2022.

The fire brigade provided an excuse to The Fast Charge: "Transitioning to a zero-emissions fleet requires careful planning, delivery and resourcing and we are proactively addressing this as we continue to trial the vehicle’s capabilities.”

https://order-order.com/2025/05/09/khans-electric-eco-fire-engine-has-not-been-used-once/

maximus otter
 
People all over the developed (mainly European) countries think electric cars are suitable for every day use as a replacement for petrol or diesel but these people are dundee who live in cities with access to electricity and easy lives.
Across the rest of the world the distances involved and access to electricity make them just a plaything for rich people.
As an example if I want to drive from here to visit some of Rolands family who live in Darwin it is over 2400 miles by road so really it is only going by flying that is considered. An electric car would run out of power even just getting out of NSW which is over 600 miles wide. You would not find any electric places beyond the city either.
 
maximus otter said:
In 2022 Sadiq Khan hailed London Fire Brigade’s introduction of ZEPA1 – the UK’s first electric fire engine. He said “emergency services are a key part of our clean air goals, and this high-performance green fire engine will help to ensure Londoners breathe cleaner air whilst working to tackle blazes across the city.” It is based at Hammersmith basement and is equipped with 280kWh battery for 200 miles of range.

JmhlaWdodD01MzA


Only one problem so far…

The EV fire engine has never been used to put out an actual fire. In fact it has not been used in any live incidents whatsoever since it was introduced in 2022.

The fire brigade provided an excuse to The Fast Charge: "Transitioning to a zero-emissions fleet requires careful planning, delivery and resourcing and we are proactively addressing this as we continue to trial the vehicle’s capabilities.”

https://order-order.com/2025/05/09/khans-electric-eco-fire-engine-has-not-been-used-once/

maximus otter
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Electric is okay for a fire engine, they don't drive from Manchester to Cornwall for a holiday.
 
On the side it says hybrid so not a true ev and it looks like a emergency rescue tender not a actual fire engine. But let's not let the truth get in the way of a publicity stunt.
 
Yolande Harmony Goodluck said:
People all over the developed (mainly European) countries think electric cars are suitable for every day use as a replacement for petrol or diesel but these people are dundee who live in cities with access to electricity and easy lives.
Across the rest of the world the distances involved and access to electricity make them just a plaything for rich people.
As an example if I want to drive from here to visit some of Rolands family who live in Darwin it is over 2400 miles by road so really it is only going by flying that is considered. An electric car would run out of power even just getting out of NSW which is over 600 miles wide. You would not find any electric places beyond the city either.
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That's not really any different than having access to gasoline/petrol. Modern gas pumps need electricity as well.
 
And consider the insane amount of environmental pollution from digging up all that geology, processing it, disposing of it. The amount of terrain to be occupied by windmills, solar farms, hydro-electric, the clear cutting, the run off. We are always being sold on tech but the whole direction is unsustainable. Malthusian economics.
 
Sharon Hill said:
That's not really any different than having access to gasoline/petrol. Modern gas pumps need electricity as well.
Click to expand...

Thank you.
No, it is very different. You are wrong. Yes pumps need electric to run but we can use pumps to fill cans and then travel. The more cans we can fill the further we can travel.
When we go on a long trip we fill at least 3 large cans with fuel because we know that when we get beyond the city there can be long way between filling stations.
We like to make sure that we have fuel to run the vehicle for at least 1000 miles. I know it sounds crazy but a full tank in the Toyota will easily get us 500 miles or more. Plus the cans and 1000 miles is easy.
This is something that people with an EV cannot do. If someone wants to use an EV to go on a trip across country like we sometimes have to do I do not think they can put extra batteries in the back.
 
Yolande Harmony Goodluck said:
Thank you.
No, it is very different. You are wrong. Yes pumps need electric to run but we can use pumps to fill cans and then travel. The more cans we can fill the further we can travel.
When we go on a long trip we fill at least 3 large cans with fuel because we know that when we get beyond the city there can be long way between filling stations.
We like to make sure that we have fuel to run the vehicle for at least 1000 miles. I know it sounds crazy but a full tank in the Toyota will easily get us 500 miles or more. Plus the cans and 1000 miles is easy.
This is something that people with an EV cannot do. If someone wants to use an EV to go on a trip across country like we sometimes have to do I do not think they can put extra batteries in the back.
Click to expand...
It's also worth considering the difference in electrical loading to run a petrol pump compared with that required to charge up an EV.
I'm gonna say that the pump requires a LOT less electricity to run.
 
Yolande Harmony Goodluck said:
Thank you.
No, it is very different. You are wrong. Yes pumps need electric to run but we can use pumps to fill cans and then travel. The more cans we can fill the further we can travel.
When we go on a long trip we fill at least 3 large cans with fuel because we know that when we get beyond the city there can be long way between filling stations.
We like to make sure that we have fuel to run the vehicle for at least 1000 miles. I know it sounds crazy but a full tank in the Toyota will easily get us 500 miles or more. Plus the cans and 1000 miles is easy.
This is something that people with an EV cannot do. If someone wants to use an EV to go on a trip across country like we sometimes have to do I do not think they can put extra batteries in the back.
Click to expand...
There will be a time where EVs will have their own solar panels to generate electricity to run. Should be great for Australia.

It's a fallacy to discount the future of a technology because it isn't fully developed or won't quite do everything you want. While there will be GCEs in vehicles for the foreseeable future, EVs or alternatives will surpass them in time.
 
I am sure the future is EV but I object most strongly to them trying to force
me to do and pay for the research and development.
Don't fancy being a lab rat for Tesla.

:omr:
 
Sharon Hill said:
There will be a time where EVs will have their own solar panels to generate electricity to run. Should be great for Australia.

It's a fallacy to discount the future of a technology because it isn't fully developed or won't quite do everything you want. While there will be GCEs in vehicles for the foreseeable future, EVs or alternatives will surpass them in time.
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Maybe eventually something like this might well be developed with the power sources built into the bodywork? https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/swedish-liquid-battery-breakthrough.71931/post-2419615
 
RaM said:
I am sure the future is EV but I object most strongly to them trying to force
me to do and pay for the research and development.
Don't fancy being a lab rat for Tesla.

:omr:
Click to expand...
Where exactly is this happening?
 
Mythopoeika said:
Here in the UK, we're being told that no new petrol or diesel vehicles will be produced/sold after 2030.
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Oh, well that's not quite what was said. There will still be available combustion engines available for the foreseeable future and no is being forced to be a "lab rat for Tesla". I would LOVE to be able to buy Chinese EVs, but we can't have those choices in the US.
 
Sharon Hill said:
Oh, well that's not quite what was said. There will still be available combustion engines available for the foreseeable future and no is being forced to be a "lab rat for Tesla". I would LOVE to be able to buy Chinese EVs, but we can't have those choices in the US.
Click to expand...
Yes, second hand ICE cars will still be allowed. The only NEW cars allowed to be sold will be electric.
 
Thank you all.
People that think they are clever and say everyone will be driving electric vehicles in the future and say things about 'solar panels generating all the electricity' and silly things like that do not live in the real world.
They live in or near modern cities where everything is easily available, living sheltered lives with their eyes closed, and say such silly stupid things, and then when they are caught out on their silly things they start to go back and say 'oh that is not what I meant' or similar.
We can see them and we can see through them, and they expose themselfs as the ill informed or wilfully ignorant people that they are.
Unless and until a battery and charging technology is developed that is better than the ease of use, availability, power density and range, of traditionally fuelled combustion engines, there will never be a time in which EVs will replace them for the majority of the global population.

Those sorts of people remind me of the man in the tale of the poor farmer man who complains to his neighbour that he is tired of having to do all the farm work himself.
All the lifting, the carrying, the digging, the hard work. It is all too much for him.
His neighbour tells him that he should buy a donkey and a cart, that will help him with all the work.
So he goes to the market and buys a donkey and a cart.
The next day his neighbour is admiring the poor farmers new donkey and cart.
He asks the man "You have never had a donkey and a cart before - did you find it easy to get the donkey to pull the cart back to the farm?"
"Oh yes" said the poor farmer "That is where I was very clever. I put the donkey into the cart and I pushed them BOTH back here together!"
 
Not a winner.

The Cybertruck was supposed to be apocalypse-proof. Can it even survive a trip to the grocery store?​

Thanks to poor engineering and Elon Musk, Tesla’s road rage-inducing street tank can’t even win over its core demographic: doomsday preppers ...

A recent Slate article nods at the truck’s uncanny resemblance to the Casspir, the apartheid-era military transport that patrolled South African townships in Musk’s boyhood. “As violence and flames engulfed the streets of the nation, Black South African children drew and wrote about the apartheid security forces and its tools – dogs and Casspirs – chasing and shooting at them in their schools, streets, and homes,” the article says. “By the 1990s, the Casspir had become an iconic global symbol of apartheid oppression.”

It’s no surprise then that the Cybertruck would become a status symbol for security forces. One California police department spent $153,000 on a Cybertruck for “community outreach efforts” (though it didn’t rule out using it to “respond to emergencies” as needed), and a Chechen warlord showed off a machine-gun mounted Cybertruck he claimed was purpose-built to help his army fight alongside Russia in the Ukraine war. “I am sure that this ‘beast’ will bring a lot of benefit to our fighters,” Ramzan Kadyrov said while heaping praise on “the respected Elon Musk”, who has denied making the vehicle for Kadyrov. Ultimately, the Cybertruck had to be towed from the battlefield after randomly shutting down on Chechen forces, and Kadyrov accused Musk of switching it off remotely – a nagging concern among Tesla owners. ...

The average truck is undergirded with a steel frame to handle the rigors of hauling and towing – but the Cybertruck’s underbody is made of aluminum, much lighter metal that can bend and even break under heavy strain. Stainless steel is also susceptible to rust – which is to say the Cybertruck is an iffy proposition to survive regular winter, let alone nuclear winter.

The internet teems with video of the Cybertruck spinning its wheels in a snowy parking space, on the beach and farther off the beaten path; meanwhile the Rivian R1T, a legitimately capable electric vehicle rival to the Cybertruck, was apparently no worse for wear after being tossed around during Hurricane Helene. (“What a dream marketing opportunity for Rivian,” Giertz says. “Your truck actually survived a natural disaster.”)

Dan Neil, the Wall Street Journal’s Pulitzer prize-winning car critic, slid off a hill while test-driving the Cybertruck with his teenage daughter. “We took it on class three and class four trails, which it is technically capable of,” he says. “But it’s also 2ft wider than any trail at any national park could generally accommodate. That’s the part I don’t get. It’s definitely an on-road car.” ...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2025/may/14/tesla-cybertruck-durability-elon-musk
 
ramonmercado said:
Not a winner.

The Cybertruck was supposed to be apocalypse-proof. Can it even survive a trip to the grocery store?​

Thanks to poor engineering and Elon Musk, Tesla’s road rage-inducing street tank can’t even win over its core demographic: doomsday preppers ...

A recent Slate article nods at the truck’s uncanny resemblance to the Casspir, the apartheid-era military transport that patrolled South African townships in Musk’s boyhood. “As violence and flames engulfed the streets of the nation, Black South African children drew and wrote about the apartheid security forces and its tools – dogs and Casspirs – chasing and shooting at them in their schools, streets, and homes,” the article says. “By the 1990s, the Casspir had become an iconic global symbol of apartheid oppression.”

It’s no surprise then that the Cybertruck would become a status symbol for security forces. One California police department spent $153,000 on a Cybertruck for “community outreach efforts” (though it didn’t rule out using it to “respond to emergencies” as needed), and a Chechen warlord showed off a machine-gun mounted Cybertruck he claimed was purpose-built to help his army fight alongside Russia in the Ukraine war. “I am sure that this ‘beast’ will bring a lot of benefit to our fighters,” Ramzan Kadyrov said while heaping praise on “the respected Elon Musk”, who has denied making the vehicle for Kadyrov. Ultimately, the Cybertruck had to be towed from the battlefield after randomly shutting down on Chechen forces, and Kadyrov accused Musk of switching it off remotely – a nagging concern among Tesla owners. ...

The average truck is undergirded with a steel frame to handle the rigors of hauling and towing – but the Cybertruck’s underbody is made of aluminum, much lighter metal that can bend and even break under heavy strain. Stainless steel is also susceptible to rust – which is to say the Cybertruck is an iffy proposition to survive regular winter, let alone nuclear winter.

The internet teems with video of the Cybertruck spinning its wheels in a snowy parking space, on the beach and farther off the beaten path; meanwhile the Rivian R1T, a legitimately capable electric vehicle rival to the Cybertruck, was apparently no worse for wear after being tossed around during Hurricane Helene. (“What a dream marketing opportunity for Rivian,” Giertz says. “Your truck actually survived a natural disaster.”)

Dan Neil, the Wall Street Journal’s Pulitzer prize-winning car critic, slid off a hill while test-driving the Cybertruck with his teenage daughter. “We took it on class three and class four trails, which it is technically capable of,” he says. “But it’s also 2ft wider than any trail at any national park could generally accommodate. That’s the part I don’t get. It’s definitely an on-road car.” ...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2025/may/14/tesla-cybertruck-durability-elon-musk
Click to expand...
That's what happens when you let a neurotic narcissist get what he wants instead of doing consumer response testing.
 
The dangers of high power batteries are hardly new. See episode S15E4 of 'Mayday Mayday' to understand the problem, which is the terribly high heat generated even by the small sort of lithium battery you may have in your laptop or tablet.

The problem is of course an order of magnitude greater with even a single EV, let alone if a whole multi-story car park of them should go up.
 
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