Electronic Influences By Ghosts Perhaps

GNC

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#63
Aw, don't be cruel to @Sharon Hill , she's just direct, that's all. She's very knowledgeable, it's good to have people like that around. Besides, maybe she had just read the letter about her in the latest FT and was feeling defensive.
 

Scribbles

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#65
Maybe we should return to the OP's original post? Save any more unpleasantness.

None of us followed up on the quote below from Patrick.

@PatrickMathiesn if you're still around, would you like to tell us what the other odd incident was? Sorry to learn about your brother.

There was a lot of strong emotions in the household because of my brother's death in a motor bike accident two years before, and in the same year as this happening described , another odd experience occurred when I was staying at the house. It could be connected, but at the end of the day rationality rules for me, we can go no further than that.
 

Sharon Hill

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#66
Sharon, I'd like to formally invite you to join us at 30 East Drive in Pontefract on the **** and **** of August, to join us at a house some people call the most poltergeist 'violent' property in Europe .. some other people say the world apparently.
Thanks but I certainly can’t make it to Europe on a whim right now. Also, an experience in an allegedly affected place is problematic. It’s difficult to be unbiased and objective because these are very personal experiences. I’ve been with investigators at an allegedly active site and it was just horrible goofiness that left me frustrated. IOW, someone’s personal experience is just that and nothing else.

Yes, I am direct. Someone needs to be. The paranormal is chock full of bullshitters.
 

Sharon Hill

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#67
Aw, don't be cruel to @Sharon Hill , she's just direct, that's all. She's very knowledgeable, it's good to have people like that around. Besides, maybe she had just read the letter about her in the latest FT and was feeling defensive.
Another one?! I don’t have my issue yet but I can guess... it was the author of the book that I reviewed. If so, I’ve had it out with him already. Critique is part of sharing ideas in public. :btime::dunno:
 

Swifty

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#68
Thanks but I certainly can’t make it to Europe on a whim right now. Also, an experience in an allegedly affected place is problematic. It’s difficult to be unbiased and objective because these are very personal experiences. I’ve been with investigators at an allegedly active site and it was just horrible goofiness that left me frustrated. IOW, someone’s personal experience is just that and nothing else.

Yes, I am direct. Someone needs to be. The paranormal is chock full of bullshitters.
Thanks Sharon for your reply. The reason I invited you is because you're objective and sober IMO .. you're a sceptic so I'm glad you've tried one invest and not just written 'us weirdos' off off the bat.

I'd like to echo your assessment to anyone reading this, there's no question in my mind that there's a load of wishful thinking (not to mention people hungry for internet attention these days) and sometimes also well meaning credulous people nowadays described as 'parafams' .. paranormal families/ ghost investigation teams.

Our team consists of the woman in charge who wants to find out if ghosts are real after a childhood experience she feels she had, our soundman who's extremely sensible and un phased by anything (almost) and myself who takes the Fortean approach. A good example of letting your mind run away with you was our Binham Priory invest. To cut a long story short, I was seeing parallel beams of light passing by in upper story windows (something I later found out is often reported there) .. our soundman kindly pointed out that a road in the distance behind us involving cars travelling around a bend with their spotlights on were the most likely explanation .. the important thing is, none of us got excited at first .. we just set up cameras and investigated instead of running around like 'true believers' .. debunked! ..

We always take that approach on any invests we do.

Sometimes things are harder to explain although still not impossible if anyone is absolutely determined to debunk all paranormal activity. At one location, I saw a temp team member rubbing his left shoulder .. I asked him if he was OK, nobody else was in earshot. Not long after that, our soundman also complained of a painful left shoulder, unaware that someone else had privately explained that specific area pain to me. And two of our batteries drained at the same time.

Of course, all of this could just be coincidence but sometimes you get to the stage where the more 'sensible' explanations are the more outlandish ones.

Lots of non paranormal things can pollute a ghost invest, our job is to look out for those natural possibilities (or as a cynic might say instead, likely hoods) and not excitedly jump to conclusions.
 

catseye

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#69
I agree (being largely sceptical myself) with Sharon that a lot of bullshitting goes on. Some people are so desperate to convince themselves that something happening is 'paranormal' that they will tie themselves in knots with the 'yes, but...'s and the 'it couldn't possibly be (the thing it most evidently is) because...'

Some people want to believe. Some people want to be convinced. Some people are just here for the community and the craic.
 

Sharon Hill

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#73
I agree (being largely sceptical myself) with Sharon that a lot of bullshitting goes on. Some people are so desperate to convince themselves that something happening is 'paranormal' that they will tie themselves in knots with the 'yes, but...'s and the 'it couldn't possibly be (the thing it most evidently is) because...'

Some people want to believe. Some people want to be convinced. Some people are just here for the community and the craic.
It seems impossible to be totally objective when examining a ghost claim. We all lean one way or another and are heavily influenced by our own experiences and culture. I don't quite know the best way to approach investigating such claims but repetition and a pre-determined procedure would be a good start. If odd things are occurring, I think only long term examination is really worthwhile and a one-time trip causes more problems than it solves. I have talked to at least one group here in the states that have picked a location to repeatedly go back to for experiments. That builds up a data set. I lament that so many different groups go to the same place and never analyze the collective data - no common protocols, no sharing of results. If there is no well-thought-out procedure to follow, it's not an investigation.
 

Scribbles

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#74
I...'
Some people want to believe. Some people want to be convinced. Some people are just here for the community and the craic.
I'm totes here for the community and the craic. It's the only paranormal board I've been able to stick at because it's such a broad church. I don't want an echo chamber of my own thoughts and ideas (I don't really have "beliefs", I'll leave that to the religious), I'm interested in what other people think. And a lot of people on here have a good sense of humour too. I like it here.

The worst thing right now about the paranormal community imo is those godawful American programmes where macho men stomp around an abandoned building in the dark shouting at ghosts that are not there. Just awful.

Vic and Bob have done an excellent spoof of that type of crap, "one plop for yes, two plops for no..."
 

Scribbles

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#75
Thanks Sharon for your reply. The reason I invited you is because you're objective and sober IMO .. you're a sceptic so I'm glad you've tried one invest and not just written 'us weirdos' off off the bat.

I'd like to echo your assessment to anyone reading this, there's no question in my mind that there's a load of wishful thinking (not to mention people hungry for internet attention these days) and sometimes also well meaning credulous people nowadays described as 'parafams' .. paranormal families/ ghost investigation teams.

Our team consists of the woman in charge who wants to find out if ghosts are real after a childhood experience she feels she had, our soundman who's extremely sensible and un phased by anything (almost) and myself who takes the Fortean approach. A good example of letting your mind run away with you was our Binham Priory invest. To cut a long story short, I was seeing parallel beams of light passing by in upper story windows (something I later found out is often reported there) .. our soundman kindly pointed out that a road in the distance behind us involving cars travelling around a bend with their spotlights on were the most likely explanation .. the important thing is, none of us got excited at first .. we just set up cameras and investigated instead of running around like 'true believers' .. debunked! ..

We always take that approach on any invests we do.

Sometimes things are harder to explain although still not impossible if anyone is absolutely determined to debunk all paranormal activity. At one location, I saw a temp team member rubbing his left shoulder .. I asked him if he was OK, nobody else was in earshot. Not long after that, our soundman also complained of a painful left shoulder, unaware that someone else had privately explained that specific area pain to me. And two of our batteries drained at the same time.

Of course, all of this could just be coincidence but sometimes you get to the stage where the more 'sensible' explanations are the more outlandish ones.

Lots of non paranormal things can pollute a ghost invest, our job is to look out for those natural possibilities (or as a cynic might say instead, likely hoods) and not excitedly jump to conclusions.
So interesting, Swifty.

Can I ask, have you ever felt scared on an investigation? Like, have a proper "hairs stand up on the back of your neck" moment?
 

Swifty

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#76
So interesting, Swifty.

Can I ask, have you ever felt scared on an investigation? Like, have a proper "hairs stand up on the back of your neck" moment?
I've had goose bumps, feelings of nausea, anxiety, smelled flowers and walked into cold spots.

Our favourite place is All Saints Church in Santon near Brandon. We've been twice to date and will be returning as many times as we can. As has been said already in this thread, it's better to do multiple visits to a location to do a proper invest, our methods 'tightened up' on our second visit although I'm the only one who takes live hand written notes. We're actually a lot harder on ourselves than sceptics might expect .. you'd be surprised how much noise can be generated by a group of people trying to keep quiet and perfectly still.

The first biggest culprits are stomach rumblings, when your stomach rumbles and everyone's trying to hear ghostly sounds a stomach rumble sounds like a 'growl'. When you're stomach rumbles, you say "tummy" to make the rest of the team aware and so that the word tummy is also recorded on camera and digital voice recorders. Sitting or standing still for a long time causes anyone to become physically uncomfortable and to start fidgeting a bit so when one of us accidently kicks something, scrapes their foot on the floor, knocks something etc etc we say "that was me" for the same reasons.

I'm currently curious as to the reason I keep hearing something that sounds like a 'h h hh hh h' on our camera playbacks at that church, sort of like a shivering breath sound. My first debunk thought was that it must have been me although I don't normally make sounds like that (or I'm not aware of doing so to be more accurate). My second debunk thought was that it was just recording the sound of a puffa jacket I was wearing that first night rubbing against itself picked up on my mic. Watching Eddie Mallet's footage later from that same night who was, at the time, standing at the opposite end of the church, he picked up the same 'h h hh hh h' type sound ... different camera, different location and he wasn't wearing a puffa jacket .. it does actually sound like someone trying to catch their breath .. fuck knows? .. I can only give my word it's not me faking ..

post #434 in this thread to hear it ..

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/who-ya-gonna-call-ghost-hunters-hunting.25396/page-15
 
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bakelite brain

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#77
The thread name got me thinking. Those of us who work in radio and electronics don't really have any clear evidence of 'ghostly influences' - unless someone can show me otherwise. Decades ago I thought research into EVP and transcommunication would reveal something useful. But it never did. New researchers repeat old work and try to develop new EVP techniques, but get nowhere and drift away, only to be replaced by other hopeful researchers who also get nowhere, and the process repeats. Neither do I think the unconvincing EVP recordings 'enhanced' using programs like Audacity lend the subject any credibility. What's the latest trend? Oh yes, K2 meters, the Parascope and the Ghost Box (AKA Frank's Box) - is this really the best 21st paranormal research can do?

Radio communications can now detect coherent signals 30dB below the noise. We have all manner of extremely sensitive measuring equipment, and I would have thought someone, somewhere would have picked up repeatable anomalous unexplainable signals. But no, not a sausage.

It seems we're still relying on sensitives and mediums...
 

Sharon Hill

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#78
bakelite brain said: Decades ago I thought research into EVP and transcommunication would reveal something useful. But it never did. New researchers repeat old work and try to develop new EVP techniques, but get nowhere and drift away, only to be replaced by other hopeful researchers who also get nowhere, and the process repeats.

Exactly. The fact that no progress has been made in a field says something important.
 
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Scribbles

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#79
The thread name got me thinking. Those of us who work in radio and electronics don't really have any clear evidence of 'ghostly influences' - unless someone can show me otherwise. Decades ago I thought research into EVP and transcommunication would reveal something useful. But it never did. New researchers repeat old work and try to develop new EVP techniques, but get nowhere and drift away, only to be replaced by other hopeful researchers who also get nowhere, and the process repeats. Neither do I think the unconvincing EVP recordings 'enhanced' using programs like Audacity lend the subject any credibility. What's the latest trend? Oh yes, K2 meters, the Parascope and the Ghost Box (AKA Frank's Box) - is this really the best 21st paranormal research can do?

Radio communications can now detect coherent signals 30dB below the noise. We have all manner of extremely sensitive measuring equipment, and I would have thought someone, somewhere would have picked up repeatable anomalous unexplainable signals. But no, not a sausage.

It seems we're still relying on sensitives and mediums...
Going back to what Spudrick said earlier in the thread, if you use a tape measure to try and measure water, you'll conclude there's no water.
 

Scribbles

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#80
I've had goose bumps, feelings of nausea, anxiety, smelled flowers and walked into cold spots.

Our favourite place is All Saints Church in Santon near Brandon. We've been twice to date and will be returning as many times as we can. As has been said already in this thread, it's better to do multiple visits to a location to do a proper invest, our methods 'tightened up' on our second visit although I'm the only one who takes live hand written notes. We're actually a lot harder on ourselves than sceptics might expect .. you'd be surprised how much noise can be generated by a group of people trying to keep quiet and perfectly still.

The first biggest culprits are stomach rumblings, when your stomach rumbles and everyone's trying to hear ghostly sounds a stomach rumble sounds like a 'growl'. When you're stomach rumbles, you say "tummy" to make the rest of the team aware and so that the word tummy is also recorded on camera and digital voice recorders. Sitting or standing still for a long time causes anyone to become physically uncomfortable and to start fidgeting a bit so when one of us accidently kicks something, scrapes their foot on the floor, knocks something etc etc we say "that was me" for the same reasons.

I'm currently curious as to the reason I keep hearing something that sounds like a 'h h hh hh h' on our camera playbacks at that church, sort of like a shivering breath sound. My first debunk thought was that it must have been me although I don't normally make sounds like that (or I'm not aware of doing so to be more accurate). My second debunk thought was that it was just recording the sound of a puffa jacket I was wearing that first night rubbing against itself picked up on my mic. Watching Eddie Mallet's footage later from that same night who was, at the time, standing at the opposite end of the church, he picked up the same 'h h hh hh h' type sound ... different camera, different location and he wasn't wearing a puffa jacket .. it does actually sound like someone trying to catch their breath .. fuck knows? .. I can only give my word it's not me faking ..

post #434 in this thread to hear it ..

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/who-ya-gonna-call-ghost-hunters-hunting.25396/page-15
Thanks! That whole thread is spooky!
 

Sollywos

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#82
The worst thing right now about the paranormal community imo is those godawful American programmes where macho men stomp around an abandoned building in the dark shouting at ghosts that are not there. Just awful.
You beat me to it! I was just about to post the same thing/ I was so pleased when I first got a tv package with loads of channels to see that there were so many paranormal programmes ..... for all of five minutes through the first one I tried! What dire rubbish! Oh I did try others from time to time and although some were less bad none were particularly good.

Ages ago there'd been a prog on UK tv called, if I recall correctly, 'Ghost Hunters' which was really well done in that it told/re-enacted whatever story was the subject without going into unnecessary dramatics and then had various explainations including from skeptics. (The late Prof Archie Roy was a contibutor). Things went downhill .... way way down hill with Most Haunted and I've looked in vain for a similar prog to GH. However this message board will do nicely ....... a good mix of people's stories and possible explainations.

Sollywos x
 

Frideswide

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#83
Ages ago there'd been a prog on UK tv called, if I recall correctly, 'Ghost Hunters' which was really well done in that it told/re-enacted whatever story was the subject without going into unnecessary dramatics and then had various explainations including from skeptics. (The late Prof Archie Roy was a contibutor).
Was this the William Woollard fronted one? or a different one?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghosthunters_(TV_series)
 

Swifty

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#84
You beat me to it! I was just about to post the same thing/ I was so pleased when I first got a tv package with loads of channels to see that there were so many paranormal programmes ..... for all of five minutes through the first one I tried! What dire rubbish! Oh I did try others from time to time and although some were less bad none were particularly good.

Ages ago there'd been a prog on UK tv called, if I recall correctly, 'Ghost Hunters' which was really well done in that it told/re-enacted whatever story was the subject without going into unnecessary dramatics and then had various explainations including from skeptics. (The late Prof Archie Roy was a contibutor). Things went downhill .... way way down hill with Most Haunted and I've looked in vain for a similar prog to GH. However this message board will do nicely ....... a good mix of people's stories and possible explainations.

Sollywos x
Do you mean GhostWatch, the now notorious fake TV show that hoodwinked people and caused complaints in the UK? .. sort of the same thing happening when War Of The Worlds was broadcast on radio ..

I've just found a great make up F/X pic of 'Pipes' from that controversial show ..

http://www.stomptokyo.com/badmoviereport/reviews/G/ghostwatch-extra.html
 

Sollywos

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#85

Sollywos

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#86

IbisNibs

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#88
I'm currently curious as to the reason I keep hearing something that sounds like a 'h h hh hh h' on our camera playbacks at that church, sort of like a shivering breath sound. My first debunk thought was that it must have been me although I don't normally make sounds like that (or I'm not aware of doing so to be more accurate). My second debunk thought was that it was just recording the sound of a puffa jacket I was wearing that first night rubbing against itself picked up on my mic. Watching Eddie Mallet's footage later from that same night who was, at the time, standing at the opposite end of the church, he picked up the same 'h h hh hh h' type sound ... different camera, different location and he wasn't wearing a puffa jacket .. it does actually sound like someone trying to catch their breath .. fuck knows? .. I can only give my word it's not me faking ..
Time for a control experiment. Go to a physically similar place but not supposed to be haunted and carry out the same exercise using the same equipment and wearing the same clothes. See if you pick up the "h h hh hh h" sound. Maybe do another one also, where your colleagues sit together and leave some of the recording equipment further away. Maybe you will get multiple "h h hh hh h" sounds on one recorder, or maybe you'll get one sound on all recorders.
Another thought: is it possible that the "h h hh hh h" sound is some kind of remote electronic or industrial sound? I've lived in cities of varying sizes and it's been amazing to me what kind of strange, unnatural far off noises I hear at night. (E.g. high pitched continuous buzzes or electronic tones, and various slowly throbbing sounds like distant electric motors.)
 

Swifty

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#90
Time for a control experiment. Go to a physically similar place but not supposed to be haunted and carry out the same exercise using the same equipment and wearing the same clothes. See if you pick up the "h h hh hh h" sound. Maybe do another one also, where your colleagues sit together and leave some of the recording equipment further away. Maybe you will get multiple "h h hh hh h" sounds on one recorder, or maybe you'll get one sound on all recorders.
Another thought: is it possible that the "h h hh hh h" sound is some kind of remote electronic or industrial sound? I've lived in cities of varying sizes and it's been amazing to me what kind of strange, unnatural far off noises I hear at night. (E.g. high pitched continuous buzzes or electronic tones, and various slowly throbbing sounds like distant electric motors.)
I'll definitely be putting that jacket on in a small church or similar structure and try to recreate the sound that way, it's nylon with a polyester filling according to the label .. perhaps because I'm holding the camera and filming at eye level my elbow was rubbing against my waist? .. here's the vid, the 'breathing' sound can be heard at 0:55. I'll try and re find the video Eddie Mallet made of that night (it's on youtube but he has loads of videos up from the same location) that seemingly captures the same sound through his camera's microphone, again seemingly close to the mic, except he wears a thinner leather jacket .. this church is also close to a rail line .. I'm the person filming this clip. The thing that's impressed me is that I'm a skinny younger bloke, Eddie's a fatter older bloke, we wear different types of clothing yet his camera's mic when I wasn't standing anywhere close enough to him picked up the exact same sound at the same volume heard on playback.

I'll send him a pm today and ask him to send me a link to his specific vid of that same night that captured the sound then edit this post so all can listen, compare and critique ..

(0:55 and the same sound at 1:36 .. best listened to with headphones)

If anyone here has the technical ability to overlap and play 0:55 and 1:36 at the same time, I'd be very grateful because if they match exactly then that to me would suggest the sounds were coming from inside the camera itself ..

 
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