English Riots August 2011

Quake42

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#1
I'm surprised there isn't already a thread on this. Worrying stuff, especially for those of us living in inner London boroughs...

London riots: Looting and violence continues

Police have condemned a wave of "copycat criminal activity" across London in a second night of looting and disorder following riots in Tottenham.

More than 100 people have been arrested as officers were attacked, police vehicles damaged and shops looted.

Disorder spread to Enfield, Walthamstow and Waltham Forest in north London and to Brixton in the south of the city.

Home Secretary Teresa May has cut short her holiday to return to the UK following the disorder.

Some 35 officers have been injured over the two nights of rioting.

Three officers were hurt when a vehicle hit them as they tried to make an arrest in Waltham Forest, east London.

Clashes broke out in Enfield, north London, on Sunday evening where shop windows were smashed and a police car damaged.

'New trainers'

There have been reports of a gang of up to 200 youths looting shops and charging police in Coldharbour Lane and the High Street in Brixton, south London.

Continue reading the main story
Travel disruption
Brixton Tube station is closed
Tottenham High Road and Bruce Grove closed between Monument Way and the Roundway
Lordship Lane closed between the A1010 High Road and Bruce Grove
Church Street in Enfield closed between Chase Side and Willow Road
Bus routes 67, 123, 141, 243, 259, 279, 349, 318, 341 and W4 are on diversion
Metropolitan Police Commander Adrian Hanstock said: "This is not groups of people acting on behalf of communities or with any consent.

"This is individuals who are actually attacking communities, businesses, properties and houses and actually causing a huge amount of upset and criminality."

The Met said it had dealt with several incidents of "copycat criminal activity" across the city.

These included:

Three officers injured after being hit by a vehicle in Chingford Mount, Waltham Forest, at about 00:45 BST
More than 30 youths vandalising and looting a number of shops in Walthamstow and Waltham Forest
Vandalism carried out by about 50 youths in Oxford Circus, central London
A police vehicle being attacked in Islington, north London
A shop on the King's Road in Chelsea damaged
A Tesco store in Ponders End being attacked and items stolen
Kit Malthouse, Deputy Mayor of London and Chair of the Metropolitan Police Authority, described the scenes of the last two nights as "disgusting and shocking" and said the police did a good job.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14439970

(stu edit - title altered to reflect spread of disturbances)
 

James_H

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#2
Yes it looks big

I've actually been out of London, and I'm going back today - lots of this is not so very far from where I live.

The media seems a little unclear on what actually has been going on, apart from the usual 'peaceful protest derailed by a small violent element' line.
 

Quake42

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#3
The media seems a little unclear on what actually has been going on, apart from the usual 'peaceful protest derailed by a small violent element' line.
Yes. In fairness I think that the disturbances outside of Tottenham have nothing whatsoever do with the police shooting and everything to do with people wanting free tellies and trainers.

I think the police in Tottenham were very naive on Saturday evening - a demo outside a police station, about a police shooting and on a hot August night was always likely to turn violent. They seem to have been unprepared.
 
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#5
What's very worrying is that five days after the event we still have no real details of what took place on Thursday night when Duggan was shot, other than the IPCC were there within hours? And lack of details is sending the rumour mill wild.

Delete where truthful:-
i] Duggan did not open fire though did carry a handgun.
ii] The bullet lodged in the police radio is police issue.
iii] Tottenham's peaceful protest turned violent after an officer took a baton to seventeen year old girl.

At the other end of the city are bankers wiping shares of billions and still receiving bonuses for that work. And a £2million cycle track.

And through all this our leaders, who normally jump at the chance to appear in a newspapers stay strangely quiet, distancing themselves from the press in the wake of Hackgate. Except of course Boris who couldn't get Duggan's name right.

I abhor all violence and have no doubt if Duggan hadn't been shot they'd have been another catalyst to kick off these events.

Martin Luther King said, if you create a society where a large segment of it feel they play no part and have no stake in it they unconsciously want to destroy it. [/b]
 

Quake42

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#6
Delete where truthful:-
i] Duggan did not open fire though did carry a handgun.
ii] The bullet lodged in the police radio is police issue.
iii] Tottenham's peaceful protest turned violent after an officer took a baton to seventeen year old girl.
(ii) I think has been confirmed. I believe it has also been confirmed that Duggan was armed, but may not have opened fire - it has been suggested that the gun was hidden in a sock and remain so. (iii) has not been independently confirmed.

Regardless, it's hard to see how burning people's homes and businesses, or smashing up the Brixton branch of Nandos, has anything to do with Duggan's shooting.
 

Yithian

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#7
Re: London riots

Quake42 said:
I'm surprised there isn't already a thread on this.
I did think about starting one as soon as the reports started coming in. But...

a) So little is known for sure about the shooting that there isn't much to be said other than rioting and looting are wrong. I've read a rumour on Liberal Conspiracy that the dead man was heavily involved in organised crime but have no way of knowing whether it's true. Edit: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... e-gun.html - doesn't mean he should be shot without just cause, of course.

b) It's really rather depressing to think this is happening in the UK again.

c) The altogether predictable political lines have already been drawn it seems:

Livingstone says it's the cuts, Thatcher and the Tories; David Lammy (the constituency MP) says there are violent elements outside the community coming in to cause trouble (nobody wants to attack their own constituents - it's electoral suicide); the left wing are proffering insights about life on the fringes that 'aren't justifications' but sound suspiciously like justifications to me (the coalition's abolition of the EMA has even been dragged it!); the right-wing want to flog the whole feral postcode and won't hear any mitigation; the fascists are explaining that this is what happens when you let the blacks into your country; and the communists have put it about that looting and theft are a radical redistribution of wealth in a ossified society, while the burning and destruction are the screams of the voiceless.

Edit2: Actually, having just watched David Lammy's statement in full (and having for years thought he was an idiot), he has struck the right tone here, to my ears. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14436001
 

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#8
There's been very little coverage regarding this really, when you consider the kind of blanket coverage we have come to expect from the TV news channels. The thing that surprises me is the missing voice of doom from the Police, talking about officer number reductions, just a brief mention of an ill prepared force the following night.

But look on the bright side, SuperMay has returned, and Cameron has forestalled another riot by returning to tip his waitress. Phew!
 

Quake42

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#9
There's been very little coverage regarding this really, when you consider the kind of blanket coverage we have come to expect from the TV news channels. The thing that surprises me is the missing voice of doom from the Police, talking about officer number reductions, just a brief mention of an ill prepared force the following night.
There were suggestions last night that the Met had requested a media blackout - although this was subsequently denied in Scotland Yard's Twitter feed.

I must be getting more right wing with age, but this just seems blatant criminality - people helping themselves to TVs and stereos. The most inexplicable angle is the way the police appear to have stood by and made no effort to apprehend looters walking only yards away from them. Very, very odd.
 

titch

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#10
The Tottenham riot happened where i lived for years , and still pass by every day, (apart from today cause my bus was diverted) the broadwater farm riot was caused by social deprivation sparked off by racist policing,this riot was purely thugs out to cause trouble.


The RUMOUR is that duggan was a gang leader , heavily into drugs dealing and had convictions for robber, gbh and rape, how true any of that is i have no idea.
 

Quake42

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#11
The RUMOUR is that duggan was a gang leader , heavily into drugs dealing and had convictions for robber, gbh and rape, how true any of that is i have no idea.
Well he clearly wasn't a choirboy, but that doesn't mean the police handled the shooting properly. Regardless, I don't see that the subsequent looting was linked to Duggan's death in any meaningful way.
 
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#12
I'm in Palmer's Green at the moment working.

Just popped out to get a coffee and found the high street with closed shops, all the shutters are down. S'not even 4pm.

I guess it could be precautionary given the how close Tottenham and Enfield are but a worrying sight nonetheless.
 

James_H

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#13
Moooksta said:
I'm in Palmer's Green at the moment working.

Just popped out to get a coffee and found the high street with closed shops, all the shutters are down. S'not even 4pm.

I guess it could be precautionary given the how close Tottenham and Enfield are but a worrying sight nonetheless.
I've just got home to London and it feels fairly certain that something's going to kick off in Hackney Central, all the shops are closed, there are a lot of riot vans and sirens, and hundreds of people milling out - it all feels very tense.

Am definitely staying in tonight.
 

titch

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#14
The shop my best friends daughter works in at Edmonton (Enfield) closed up at 4, fear there may be more trouble soon. :(
 

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#15
Well, London-based Forteans, keep your doors locked and your heads down; unless, of course, you can get some good photos and post them on the board when it all kicks off.
 

Cultjunky

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#16
Looks like it's kicking off in Hackney, well, the police line moved forward 10 paces, keep your head down James.
 

James_H

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#18
Yep watching it on BBC news, terrifying. I can see the same helicopters out of the window as on the live feed!
 
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#20
Lewisham has started as well now....


...though.....


Boris is on his way home! He's announced it in time for the six o'clock news!
 

GNC

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#21
Geez, I'd have hoped the riots would have played themselves out after two nights' worth, but it seems some people can't get enough of this. I can't understand this at all, except that it's been building and simmering for quite a while and now it's boiling over. Take care, Londoners!
 

James_H

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#22
Hmm well things seem to have subsided here in hackney after a tense couple of hours with some stuff including rioters trying to drive a bus into police! and cars on fire. I think a lot of shops got robbed, and there are a few people outside my window with sticks and stones etc but it all seems much quieter now.
 

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#23
Good to know, hope that's as bad as it gets tonight.
 

James_H

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#24
Actually spoke too soon, they're showing a street next door on BBC live, and they've got a wheely bin on fire! reporter called it 'possibly a vehicle'. Checked and can see it from window, it's definitely more bin than car.
 
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#26
Actually, having just watched David Lammy's statement in full (and having for years thought he was an idiot), he has struck the right tone here, to my ears.
Hes handling things well.

The cuts play a part in these things though. In Haringey 8 out of 13 youth centres have been closed and community police have been cut.
 
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#28
Source

1836: Romford station has been closed and police are on South Street. Meanwhile fresh reports are now coming in from East Ham. Argos, Barclays and a pound shop have been smashed.

1833: Police are grouping together in the centre of Harlesden. Meanwhile three police carriers have gone rushing towards Harrow town centre.

1832: Injured police dogs, location likely Hackney:

1831: Petrol station report from earlier is from Texaco in Hackney. Apparently rioters have control of that.

1830: Hackney riots reportedly started next to the Pembury estate after a stop-and-search by police turned bad. Police are now at the top of Ellingfort Road and 3 helicopters – Sky, BBC and police – are overhead.

1827: Masked youths smashing up Peckham. It’s definitely kicked off there. No further news from NW London, sounds like the closures & evacuations there may have been precautionary.

1826: Ros Griffiths, who runs the Employment café in Brixton, says violence across capital is result of years of tension. Meanwhile we’re only just keeping up to date – reports coming in that a petrol station somewhere may have been attacked. Trying hard to confirm.

1823: No more reports from Southgate, people there are saying it has calmed down. Riots erupting everywhere else in London though. I need a minute to breathe and clear my head!

1820: Latest reports now are from Romford, with police riot vans being present. Any more news from there? Ravenside Retail Park in Lea Valley has also been struck by rioters and looters, apparently. We now have our Twitter feed up and running – follow @TheWestLondoner.
Updates to what's happening.
 
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