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European Super League

Cochise

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Superleage was thinked cause there is an increasing distance between big clubs (barcelona and madrid) and the other country clubs, that are very far away in economic ressources. They want a league of the heavy weigths that maximices incomes.
That is true, and in several European countries the leagues are dominated by one or two ever-presents. That isn't true in the UK, where clubs like Leicester and Blackburn Rovers can win and big clubs like Leeds and Manchester City can be cast out into the wilderness only to return in due course - except not all of them do. That changing of fortunes is the essence of sport and football in particular and it does not occur in the US style closed league/franchise system.

Even the link between location and club is under threat in the US system - Imagine the furore in the UK if the owners decided to move Manchester City to London City - yet that sort of thing is a not infrequent occurrence in the US leagues.

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike US sport or the general run of Americans. Indeed i was very happy to be in a position to go to both Yankee and Giant games when I lived in CT. Baseball has more to it than one would expect. For subtlety in tactics it is second only to cricket. And the way that US clubs turn the whole day into an entertainment is something we could usefully copy - although maybe our weather is too rainy and our parking lots too small for the tailgate party to become a regular feature.

Edit: I was particularly keen to see Yankee Stadium since my Dad had said he had seen Babe Ruth there when he was on the boats. And I was was duly impressed by it, especially Monument Park.
 
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Yithian

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Even the link between location and club is under threat in the US system - Imagine the furore in the UK if the owners decided to move Manchester City to London City - yet that sort of thing is a not infrequent occurrence in the US leagues.
It's been a very long time since I followed football, but didn't this very thing happen with Wimbledon/M.K.Dons?

And another club?
 

Souleater

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It's been a very long time since I followed football, but didn't this very thing happen with Wimbledon/M.K.Dons?

And another club?
Wimbledon didnt have their own ground for years and shared Crystal Palaces (i think) ground, a new stadium was built and the club moved to Milton Keynes, however there was a huge backlaah from the Wimbledon supporters which resulted in the club rebranding as Milton Keynes Dons (The Dons being the nickname of Wimbledon), the supporters then formed a new club, A.F.C Wimbledon and subsequently got back into the league and moved back to their original Plough Lane stadium.
 

hunck

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I posted this elsewhere but it bears repeating re the abomination that is American throw-and-catchball.

According to the Wall St Journal, the average game which lasts 60 minutes takes 3 hours 12 minutes to play out & the time the ball is active is 11 minutes! More than 3 hours of faffing!

The average play lasts 4 seconds & there are 20 commercial breaks containing more than 100 ads, consisting about one third of the game time.

It's for people who like razamatazz & eating & drinking with the odd 4 seconds of action to watch now & again. Dreadful.
It would be more accurate to say American business entities are waking up to the fact there's a professional sports market that still has significant growth potential.
Whilst it may be true it has significant growth potential in some countries - US being one of the big ones, it's already pretty fucking huge in Europe with probably little more growth available or wanted by fans who pay the money. The backlash against the Euro Super League shows that.

The top football clubs are run on an unsustainable basis at the moment. The fact that the 2 biggest earning clubs in the world, Real Madrid & Barcelona are massively in debt, possibly to the tune of around a billion Euros each, demonstrates that. Despite all the money sloshing around they are not making enough. The vast sums paid to players, managers, agents, on transfers & so on seems to be based on borrowing in a kind of Ponzi scheme. How long it can continue on that basis is uncertain. That's what's behind the Euro League proposal. Make a group from the elite [richest] clubs to milk even more money to sustain the gravy train. Fuck everyone else & the smaller clubs.

The people running the finances of these clubs are businessmen. They may not necessarily even be fans of the sport. In my opinion everyone needs to take a pay cut but there's fuck all chance of that happening. The basic idea has gone away for the moment but these people are not going to give up..
 

Beresford

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It's been a very long time since I followed football, but didn't this very thing happen with Wimbledon/M.K.Dons?

And another club?
It has happened in Scotland a couple of times in the last 25 or so years. Almost 20 years ago Clydebank were bought and moved to Airdrie within weeks of the original Airdrieonians going bust. It was very controversial at the time, and there is still some bitterness. Like Wimbledon the Clydebank fans formed a new club, which is now a couple of divisions below the Scottish League. About 10 years before, Meadowbank Thistle became Livingston and moved to the new town of that name.

These moves are still fairly rare though and both clubs were in very weak positions at the time. Neither move was welcomed by most fans.

Anyway, back to the ESL. The point made about the debts the Spanish clubs have is spot on. The Spanish Government has baled Real Madrid out several times, but I don't think they are able to do it these days (UEFA and possibly EU rules). What I really objected to was being referred to as a 'legacy' fan, as if I no longer counted. I may not go to top flight matches very often, and I've only been to a couple of European Cup/Champions League, but when it comes to football I put my money where my mouth is. I easily attend 30/35 matches a season at various levels (pre-COVID of course).
 

C.O.T.

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I dont found that "big fish" league idea so bad, cause the increasing concentration of economic resources on a very few number of teams in each country makes national leagues increasingly boring, cause the enormous budged diferences give a very predictable result into each country, so a big fish league would be more interesting.
 

Souleater

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I dont found that "big fish" league idea so bad, cause the increasing concentration of economic resources on a very few number of teams in each country makes national leagues increasingly boring, cause the enormous budged diferences give a very predictable result into each country, so a big fish league would be more interesting.
That is supposed to be the point of the champions league.
 

Sabresonic

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Vardoger,

Some people in my family love soccer, but I am not sure of the rules.

American cities are trying to expand soccer at a rapid pace to compete with American Football.

The new Nashville soccer is trying to compete with the Tennessee Titans.
Why does Soccer need to compete and take over other sports and not live and let live.
 

Sabresonic

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I am not sure if you are aware @charliebrown but British (and many other) members here had the experience of watching these events unfold in real time as they were extensively covered by Sky Sports before, during and after the Newcastle vs Arsenal game.

Today's events at Old Trafford and outside two hotels were protests by about a thousand fans in total; perhaps 10% at most engaged in violence and criminal damage. I would describe them as protests that got out of hand, rather than full scale riots.

The news around the European Super League Project was and indeed is a major event for those of us into sport.
It carries a strong socio-political and nationalistic flavour.

If I can add any Fortean content to this, it might only be on the "Oh The Irony" thread?

The events were dissected in great detail by several ex professional players who were in the Manchester United stadium today working as TV pundits - Gary Neville, Jamie Carragher, Graham Souness, Roy Keane and Micah Richards.

Gary Neville's oratory two Sunday's ago just after the League was announced, live on air, was a major rallying point for opposition to the league.
There was much talk of how fans from all 92 professional clubs had banded togther to fight the project.

- But it was fans of Manchester United who contrived to launch a flare near Jamie Carragher, ex player of Man Utd's sworn enemies Liverpool, now working as a colleague standing pitch side two feet away from ex Manchester United player Gary Neville himself!

- And it was fans of Manchester United who threw a full unopened beer can in the direction of Graham Souness, ex Liverpool player, sitting two feet away from ex United player Roy Keane.
Souness, as was Keane, a noted hardman of the game, remarked how it could have killed someone had it hit them on the head.
As an aside for those into football, it was refreshing as ever to hear Souness call it as it is, rather than sugar-coat matters for his Sky paymasters.

So much for unity eh?
The decades deep rivalries between fans of some different clubs are seldom far from the surface, especially those two clubs.

- The Manchester United fans who protested today for the purpose of the integrity of their club, have now run the risk of their team being docked three points for failing to fulfil a fixture because of failing to control a crowd.
That said, if imposed, it would have little effect on their qualification for next season's Champions League, which is all but guaranteed by their points total so far.
Out of all team codes of Football Soccer brings out the worst and these type of so called fans don't really like the sport as the actually game to them I bet a side show ?
 
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Victory

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Why does Soccer need to compete and take over other sports and not live and let live.
It is not a case of an entity named "Soccer" trying to eradicate other sports.

People are drawn to it because it is relatively less dangerous than NFL, both Rugby codes and combat sports.
This is appealing to parents of young children.

The dangers of heading the ball are becoming known, but they will decrease as more preventative measures are enforced.

It is inexpensive, all you need is a ball.

It can be played anywhere flat (even sloped like Yeovil.)

The ball could even be some old clothes tied together.

At a professional level the rules can be complicated and difficult to interpret, nevertheless at a street level they can be really simple.

Whilst physical prowess is an asset, skill is too, and the ratio between these is much less than many other team sports.
An overweight out-of-shape player can stand in central midfield and control a game by their passing, a skinny kid can dribble rings round an older muscled player.

At a professional level, the tactical battles are gripping.
Especially when a piece of individual skill overcomes a well practiced tactical plan.

It has a long and amazing history, thousands of books have been written about it, many films have been made about it.
The social connections between clubs and communities are often decades old and very deep, with many bonds forged through folklore and politics and religion.

Most of the world plays it...it is an international language.

Whilst the richest clubs with the best players are concentrated in Europe, the international game sees a fair spread of talent throughout the world.
If here was a World Cup of NFL, it would be hard to find anyone outside of the USA or Canada who would have a chance of winning.
In football, there are usually at least eight or nine countries with a realistic chance.
And numerous others who can spring an upset, win a game or two against a nominally stronger opponent.

In fact, is there a single country or other territorial entity where it is not played?
Even the Vatican has a team.

For all it's faults....

...it's The Beautiful Game.
 
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Sabresonic

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It is not a case of an entity named "Soccer" trying to eradicate other sports.

People are drawn to it because it is relatively less dangerous than NFL, both Rugby codes and combat sports.
This is appealing to parents of young children.

The dangers of heading the ball are becoming known, but they will decrease as more preventative measures are enforced.

It is inexpensive, all you need is a ball.

It can be played anywhere flat (even sloped like Yeovil.)

The ball could even be some old clothes tied together.

At a professional level the rules can be complicated and difficult to interpret, nevertheless at a street level they can be really simple.

Whilst physical prowess is an asset, skill is too, and the ratio between these is much less than many other team sports.
An overweight out-of-shape player can stand in central midfield and control a game by their passing, a skinny kid can dribble rings round an older muscled player.

At a professional level, the tactical battles are gripping.
Especially when a piece of individual skill overcomes a well practiced tactical plan.

It has a long and amazing history, thousands of books have been written about it, many films have been made about it.
The social connections between clubs and communities are often decades old and very deep, with many bonds forged through folklore and politics and religion.

Most of the world plays it...it is an international language.

Whilst the richest clubs with the best players are concentrated in Europe, the international game sees a fair spread of talent throughout the world.
If here was a World Cup of NFL, it would be hard to find anyone outside of the USA or Canada who would have a chance of winning.
In football, there are usually at least eight or nine countries with a realistic chance.
And numerous others who can spring an upset, win a game or two against a nominally stronger opponent.

In fact, is there a single country or other territorial entity where it is not played?
Even the Vatican has a team.

For all it's faults....

...it's The Beautiful Game.
Your should check out Tony Collins podcasts as Football and Rugby were neck and neck in the 1870s to mid 1880s. http://www.rugbyreloaded.com/.

I find Touch Rugby or Touch Footy how its known down under to just as easy and anyone can play it on a social, street level like a kick about with your mates with Football.

The perfect game of Football if you had blend the contact games in with the Soccer ahem real Football would be Gaelic Football ? and maybe that's what Football might have looked like if they had no splits from the RFU, Aussie Rules etc.
 
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