Evidence Proving The Validity Of Astrology

AlienView

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#1
And.........................What is it?

Just what is the evidence that the motion and position of the planets and stars will influence your life?

I'll believe in most anything until proven to have no validity. Atheism, Theism, Deism, Eastern and Western
mysticism and religion, UFOS, Aliens, the paranormal, etc., etc.

All these things fascinate me - And there is 'some' evidence, be it often weak and circumstantial, that makes these esoteric subjects interesting.

Now what I'm asking is what is the evidence, it there is any, that the planets, stars, and their motion influences peoples lives.

Very popular on radio talk shows, astrologers get on the air and start predicting history as well as
futures for various individuals who call in.

Again, is there any evidence whatsoever to back up these soothsayers?
Has any scientific studies, like in the Rhine experiments for telepathy, give credence to Astrology?
 
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#2
I've got a book somewhere on this, but it's probably in the loft as I can't see it in the East Wing library of Coal Towers.

The issues are simple enough. You need a big wodge of data on people and their career and personal trajectories and birth-dates and then you need to compensate for all the confounding factors like: human breeding season (we have one), the effect of children's birth age in relation to their 'year' in education, number and gender of siblings, what their parents did, parents age at birth and their socio-economic status. All of which might effect birth dates and life trajectories...when you've compensated for all that stuff that you might find a correlation with the odd constellation or planet I guess.
 

AlienView

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#3
Well I did some quick research - And came up with this:

Astrology and science
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"
Astrology consists of a number of belief systems that hold that there is a relationship between astronomical phenomena and events or descriptions of personality in the human world. Astrology has been rejected by the scientific community as having no explanatory power for describing the universe. Scientific testing of astrology has been conducted, and no evidence has been found to support the premises or purported effects outlined in astrological traditions.[1]

Where astrology has made falsifiable predictions, it has been falsified.[1]:424 The most famous test was headed by Shawn Carlson and included a committee of scientists and a committee of astrologers. It led to the conclusion that natal astrology performed no better than chance. Astrologer and psychologist Michel Gauquelin claimed to have found statistical support for "the Mars effect" in the birth dates of athletes, but it could not be replicated in further studies. The organisers of later studies claimed that Gauquelin had tried to influence their inclusion criteria for the study by suggesting specific individuals be removed. It has also been suggested, by Geoffrey Dean, that the reporting of birth times by parents (before the 1950s) may have caused the apparent effect.

Astrology has not demonstrated its effectiveness in controlled studies and has no scientific validity,[1][2]:85 and as such, is regarded as pseudoscience.[3][4]:1350There is no proposed mechanism of action by which the positions and motions of stars and planets could affect people and events on Earth in the way astrologers say they do that does not contradict well-understood, basic aspects of biology and physics............."

See whole article here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology_and_science


OK - I still have an open mind - Anyone out here believe in Astrology? - Tell me why - I like to have things to believe in.
 

Ermintruder

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#4
OK - I still have an open mind - Anyone out here believe in Astrology? -
I may (accidentally) have a classic personal opportunity to test the validity of astrology.

Despite being instinctively a doubter regarding astrology (as I am about most things), I was given a personalised professional (well, costly) chart, based upon my place/date/time of birth, by a good friend. This detailed document (filled with general and specific predictions and pronouncements) was produced in London about 25yrs ago, whereupon I lost it.

However....it's recently resurfaced, at home. In it's original once-opened honest brown envelope. By which I mean it's a lot less lost that it was, I should be able to find it within an hour's searching.

So I have the tantalising opportunity....to retrospectively-compare the actuality of my quarter-century's life experiences, with the sealed, ready-cast predictions of 1992.

Will I do this? I really should. If I do, and I find it genuinely has predicted the sequential reality of my lifeline, I will be afraid/shocked and surprised.

I'm in the unlucky/lucky position of having had a number of undeniably-distinct step-changes of career and life direction. It will be interesting to see whether my "chart" even comes close to predestinating these rocks & ripples.

I can't do this match-and-compare exercise right now, due to the best and worst of offline reasons...but I will do it, soon. Objectively and honestly.

And in so doing, it will either support the proposition within the title of this thread...or not.
 

Krepostnoi

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#5
I was once assured, in all seriousness, that "only Virgos believe in Astrology".

I do not find it beyond the realms of possibility that such environmental factors as the amount of daylight, the seasonally-available food, the ambient temperature etc. surrounding the expectant mother might have an effect on the child she is carrying. Of course, these factors would vary in fairly predictable ways as the circle of the year turns*.It may then be possible to make predictions with better success than mere chance about the personality tendencies of people born at whichever time. (As m'learned friend @Coal points out, though, how you'd actually go about proving this is an exercise I leave for the reader.)

ETA All that is just tentative hypothesis about how astrology might be able to predict character traits. What I cannot do is then make the leap to positing any mechanism whatsoever as to how astrology can make predictions about the immediate future</edit>.

There's not so much Boffo (as defined by the great T Pratchett) in that, though, so why not dress it up in terms of the highly predictable procession of the stars above us. Correlation is not causation, as any fule kno, but it might increase the likelihood of silver crossing your palm.

* Mind you, in these times of cheap flights and the year-round availability of strawberries, or at any rate strawberry-shaped objects, I'm not sure how much weight such factors still carry.
 
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Krepostnoi

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#6
I may (accidentally) have a classic personal opportunity to test the validity of astrology.

Despite being instinctively a doubter regarding astrology (as I am about most things), I was given a personalised professional (well, costly) chart, based upon my place/date/time of birth, by a good friend. This detailed document (filled with general and specific predictions and pronouncements) was produced in London about 25yrs ago, whereupon I lost it.

However....it's recently resurfaced, at home. In it's original once-opened honest brown envelope. By which I mean it's a lot less lost that it was, I should be able to find it within an hour's searching.

So I have the tantalising opportunity....to retrospectively-compare the actuality of my quarter-century's life experiences, with the sealed, ready-cast predictions of 1992.

Will I do this? I really should. If I do, and I find it genuinely has predicted the sequential reality of my lifeline, I will be afraid/shocked and surprised.

I'm in the unlucky/lucky position of having had a number of undeniably-distinct step-changes of career and life direction. It will be interesting to see whether my "chart" even comes close to predestinating these rocks & ripples.

I can't do this match-and-compare exercise right now, due to the best and worst of offline reasons...but I will do it, soon. Objectively and honestly.

And in so doing, it will either support the proposition within the title of this thread...or not.
That is a tremendous opportunity - it could scarcely have been scripted better, right down to the arbitrarily significant time period that has passed - and I look forward enormously to reading your account.
 
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#7
I may (accidentally) have a classic personal opportunity to test the validity of astrology.

Despite being instinctively a doubter regarding astrology (as I am about most things), I was given a personalised professional (well, costly) chart, based upon my place/date/time of birth, by a good friend. This detailed document (filled with general and specific predictions and pronouncements) was produced in London about 25yrs ago, whereupon I lost it.

However....it's recently resurfaced, at home. In it's original once-opened honest brown envelope. By which I mean it's a lot less lost that it was, I should be able to find it within an hour's searching.

So I have the tantalising opportunity....to retrospectively-compare the actuality of my quarter-century's life experiences, with the sealed, ready-cast predictions of 1992.

Will I do this? I really should. If I do, and I find it genuinely has predicted the sequential reality of my lifeline, I will be afraid/shocked and surprised.

I'm in the unlucky/lucky position of having had a number of undeniably-distinct step-changes of career and life direction. It will be interesting to see whether my "chart" even comes close to predestinating these rocks & ripples.

I can't do this match-and-compare exercise right now, due to the best and worst of offline reasons...but I will do it, soon. Objectively and honestly.

And in so doing, it will either support the proposition within the title of this thread...or not.
The problem is that even if the predictions prove remarkably and consistently accurate this one result will not vindicate astrology. It would be an interesting exercise but if you're worried it might disturb you then, as you say, giving the matter serious thought is the right thing to do for now.

A psychologist might suggest that, especially as you were serious enough to pay top dollar to get the job done properly, your misplacing of this valuable document might not be quite as accidental as your conscious mind may imagine...

I hope you will have a look when you're good and ready though!
 

Ermintruder

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#8
A psychologist might suggest that, especially as you were serious enough to pay top dollar to get the job done properly, your misplacing of this valuable document might not be quite as accidental as your conscious mind may imagine...
No, it was definitely bought for me, really as something of a challenge (even back then) by a very-close friend. I'm an uneasy, unwilling skeptic...an ultra-realist, but one who always remains open to possibility.

So we shall see if it is an unlit firework....will it be a skyrocket, or a squib: sound and fury, signifying nothing, or be truly illuminating?
 
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#10
I can prove astrology. Just give me a bit of time. within an hour i will do that.
Strange as I closed my eyes to sleep, I had the feeling I should do this tomorrow, and then I saw this post, another 'psychic' phenomena for you guys. But it must be because mine and alien's 'energy' is connected.
 

Yithian

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#11
I can prove astrology. Just give me a bit of time. within an hour i will do that.
Strange as I closed my eyes to sleep, I had the feeling I should do this tomorrow, and then I saw this post, another 'psychic' phenomena for you guys. But it must be because mine and alien's 'energy' is connected.
This should be interesting.
We await the rabbit from the hat.
 
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#14
Chart 1 of 4 is Francois Mitterand's chart. Notice the symmetrical shape. Starting from the moon (middle of the 3 close lines). Next is Kanye West. Symmetrical shape. There must be some kind of notifier in his chart, to become so world-renowned. Here it is
Screen Shot 2017-08-13 at 8.15.45 AM.png Screen Shot 2017-08-13 at 8.15.13 AM.png



This next one 3/4 is Napoleon the 1. Another pretty symmetrical shape, and the final one is Ghengis Khan. You can verify all of these yourselves. The one thing that you have to know is that Pluto is not a part of the 'main' chart shape. If we included all that major asteroids, there would be no 'apparent' chart shape in a lot of more charts. But you take what is truly important, the main major planets which the weakest of which- neptune (for it's far distance) is still 7000x more massive than Pluto.
Screen Shot 2017-08-13 at 8.14.53 AM.png Screen Shot 2017-08-13 at 8.14.25 AM.png

And if you get the desire to laugh and say this isn't proof, I have a lot more. Which I may not show.
 
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#16
It's kind of a dumb way to understand astrology ( referring to what I have presented) but if you find more and more suggesting these planets actually do affect us, which I do have proof of that as well, then just from this lame understanding it can show how vastly interconnected all of reality really is. Just from looking at these lame lines.

'Course, I already believed it was before
 
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#17
As m'learned friend @Coal points out
Wow, I'm learned. *looks a bit pleased* :yay:
this one result will not vindicate astrology.
Sample size of 'one' has no statistical validity*...as ever. But I'm very interested in the contents of said envelope.

* Which is why I think qualitative research on one or two people is generally bunk
I don't think this is 'proof', but I am reasonably impressed--and it is interesting.
:yeahthat:
 
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#18
No, it was definitely bought for me, really as something of a challenge (even back then) by a very-close friend. I'm an uneasy, unwilling skeptic...an ultra-realist, but one who always remains open to possibility.

So we shall see if it is an unlit firework....will it be a skyrocket, or a squib: sound and fury, signifying nothing, or be truly illuminating?
Right, sorry. Perhaps I misread you!

Looking forward to the results...
 
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#20
^A chart is the position of the planets at the minutes of your birth. The moon takes 1 day to move 13 degrees, so just 1 day after Kanye was born, it would have moved. Another factor is the horizon, which its position is very important. For napoleon, I'm glad you picked that, is that his horizon is exactly level to the planets. Someone with their horizon tilted 50 degrees over, would not have the same destiny.

Something else to note is that people only become 'great' after a very odd circumstance, for Alexander the great he fought off a snake as a baby. Kanye only got famous after he almost died in a car crash, before that, no one knew about him. They go through strange things, that give them something different than everyone else. So there are many 'famous' type charts. But not everyone will become famous.
 
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Analogue Boy

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#21
^A chart is the position of the planets at the minutes of your birth. The moon takes 1 day to move 13 degrees, so just 1 day after Kanye was born, it would have moved. Another factor is the horizon, which its position is very important. For napoleon, I'm glad you picked that, is that his horizon is exactly level to the planets. Someone with their horizon tilted 50 degrees over, would not have the same destiny.

Something else to note is that people only become 'great' after a very odd circumstance, for Alexander the great he fought off a snake as a baby. Kanye only got famous after he almost died in a car crash, before that, no one knew about him. They go through strange things, that give them something different than everyone else. So there are many 'famous' type charts. But not everyone will become famous.
Hey, I'm not ruling anything out. I've had 'proper' horoscopes done as gifts. They're not the same as the sweeping generalisations you get in newspapers. But aren't there two sorts of charts - Birth and progressed?
 
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#22
"Aren't there two sorts of charts"
Of course. But then you get into fairy land with a lot of astrology. I constantly see astrologers practicing things I know are false. There is a P. chart. but most don't know the proper way to progress one. Because the true way is boring, and they want to feel like it's fun. The true P chart is just hours after your birth. But people like to pretend they get to experience a complete different chart, that your chart for age 30 is the chart on the day 30 days after your birth, and it's BS.

On an astrology forum of 40 000 daily viewers, not one of them progressed it as mentioned.
A lot of them even think a 40 KM wide asteroid ( millions of times smaller than venus) is significant in their life.

=====================================================

Here is another interesting chart. Lana Del Rey who even Taylor swift strongly admired her and accidentally copied one of Lana's song's melodies, nearly identical. "Wildest dreams" Chorus sounds identical to Lana's song "Without you" for reference. She has almost as much views as Taylor.

At first glance nothing might stick out. However the dark green (neptune) to saturn (red planet nearby), the distance between them is the same distance from the dark green to teal (jupiter) planet. Jupiter to Saturn is roughly a similar distance as saturn is to the crescent (moon). Then the pattern repeats itself but half the size, from mercury (purple) to sun (orange) contains 3 'middle' lines, which their total distance is the same as mercury to moon. And from moon to sun, is the same distance roughly as sun to venus (pink planet).
Screen Shot 2017-08-13 at 11.36.09 AM.png
There are many interesting things. You might look at a chart and see nothing, but there is always something
 
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Merle

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#23
This is pretty basic and probably full of all sorts of anomalies but I have reservations about Astrology... A close friend spent years doing it, going to classes and then setting up Astrology Birth Charts and as well as doing people's Astrology Love Charts and Astrology Predictive Charts. All dependant not just where your Birth planets were situated, but on how they moved through the skies daily, weekly, yearly.....

Then after some time watching her do those charts, I noticed that people like my dad who was born in the more extreme longitudes right up North closer to the Arctic Circle had a certain type of planetary distribution between the 12 horoscope houses which was similar to all other people born in a similar longitude regardless of which generation they were born in and in what part of the World they lived for most of their lives.

As far as predictive Astrology goes, I found I had just as much luck with hit and miss laying out Tarot cards and sort of half making it up as I went along as my friend did 'reading' my Stars for the day (or week or year or whatever)... and then I thought, rather than waste my time thinking about this too much I'm much happier spending my time sitting on the front veranda at the local pub talking shit to my mates.... and because it's opposite the train station, watching trains pass by every hour or so especially those super long, long distance freight trains slowly rumbling past... and then I think what the heck, am I cynical or just being a grumpy bum....
 

AlienView

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#24
When I used to play poker here in the US I studied all the books, knew all the odds inside out and was well aware of probability and the supposed 'fact' that mathematically the odds don't change - BUT experience dictates otherwise - 'LUCK' whatever that is becomes very real when your winning depends on having it.

For example everyone gets a certain number of winning hands dealt to them - but some people seem to get more - And further getting the right hand at the right time for it to pay, and assuming the game is on the square, indeed requires that elusive unknown called luck - One day when the cards were running salty and
I couldn't seem to get a hand to save my bankroll - I stopped playing, no sense throwing good money after bad as they would say.

Next day I went out and bought a traditional lucky amulet a rabbits foot - My luck changed for a while and........
but that was a long time ago.

Back to astrology - How often do charts really correlate with people's life and luck? Have any astrologers or astrological groups ever went out and tried to show evidence of statistical correlation between the charts cast by astrologers and the predictive power of the the results?

I haven't researched this issue much - So if anyone out there can direct me to a website or link by an astrologer or astrological organization that can show me {a poster did send me through messaging a bunch of links, and I appreciate that} but I'm looking for a simple statistical {much as I don't hold too much faith in statistics}
correlation where they can show me proof of concept as to astrology]
 

Merle

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#25
One day when the cards were running salty and
I couldn't seem to get a hand to save my bankroll - I stopped playing, no sense throwing good money after bad as they would say.

Next day I went out and bought a traditional lucky amulet a rabbits foot - My luck changed for a while and........
but that was a long time ago.
I have a local friend who spent so much money playing the Pokies (Poker machines) or Slots as I think you call it, that his habit ended up losing him his marriage as well as his house. Like he says now, that was a long time ago and crying over what once was and isn't now is a waste of time and energy and gets him nowhere fast though I do sense a slight bitterness in him, but that may be for other reasons I'm not aware of...

As far as reading the Tarot cards went, I don't think it was so much luck, but more me closely watching people's body language and facial expressions for cues as a way for me to see if I was on the right track or not. If I felt like I wasn't, I'd subtly change what I was saying and if I was, I'd just simply embellish upon what I had already said... sort of like cheating really eh?

I'm no help for Astrology statistics, I only watched my friend do it and listened to her when she explained how it worked rather than do any worthwhile research on it for myself...
.
 

Jape89

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#28
The personal experience meaning something is a dodgy road (though I am intrigued my your envelope Ermintruder).

Personal example: First half of this year was awful; deaths, creative stagnation, medical problems, loss of job due to cuts etc. Yet since June, I've had a ridiculous amount of luck with creative stuff, job stuff - the big one has been financial, seeminly every other week I was getting a tax rebate or some other lump of cash I had no idea was coming, it has allowed me to gather a modest sum to start a business, a long pipe dream of mine. So an incredible few months, a lot of it me but external boosts were crucial if only pschologically.

A religious friend told me it was God (in that "well maybe there's something to that" way softie Anglicans do), a 'hippie' friend from Brighton told me it was "singularity" or "harmonisation" or something. I actually looked up my horoscopes at the time occassionally out of curiousity but I never noticed any correlations.

But really it was luck. Or Saturn. Or Allah. I dunno.
 

PeteS

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#29
Come on Ermintruder I can't hold my breath any longer if you've opened it.... if not, a little word of warning I read a similar lost document 10 or so years ago. Turned my world askew somewhat - some things are better left alone.
 

Ermintruder

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#30
Come on Ermintruder I can't hold my breath any longer if you've opened it.....
Hopefully this Friday or weekend. Much offline craziness intervenes at present

Turned my world askew somewhat - some things are better left alon
You can't leave that one hanging....come on, details, svp (not to a level of faces/places/car-chases) but did it involve marriage, murder or or other truly-major mayhem??
 
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