Excessive Plastic Surgery: Real Or UL?

Leaferne

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It's bizarre to me that so many men aspire to be as hairless as Olympic swimmers. Is it related to the rise in eating disorders among men, skin care products marketed towards them, the whole metrosexual fad? Resting my head on a strong hairy chest is one of the great joys of this woman's life. (I usually get the chest owner's permission first) On the "Ugly pictures of once-beautiful stars" thread there's a link to a pic of Gillian Anderson looking like any other blonde bimbo--why?! She was so lovely and unique before.
 

again6

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Leafearne asked:
It's bizarre to me that so many men aspire to be as hairless as Olympic swimmers. Is it related to the rise in eating disorders among men, skin care products marketed towards them, the whole metrosexual fad?

It's just marketing, I think, Leafearne. First they create the insecurity, then they promise to relieve that anxiety and insecurity (via use of their products). And it's probably helped along by the estrogen type stuff contained in so many products (which may be deliberate). In the past couple of generations, men have been indoctrinated by the mass media; mostly television. And of course it's a diversion; people fixated by having their backsides bleached and their chests waxed aren't going to have all that much time to spare for concern about those living in desperate poverty or dying in foul wars.

Of course it's all been around more than once before, hasn't it? Tassled, bejewelled cod-pieces, tassles and lace, flouncing around waving perfumed lace handkerchiefs, whitened faces, powdered wigs, beauty spots, feather swathed hats; men have delighted in wearing all these in the past. And when you look at photos of male bands in the 60's, you find they had a bit of a thing for baby-blue satin, puffed-sleeves and yards of lace at wrist and throat -- not to mention flowing locks.

Probably nothing to worry about, unless they like wearing frilly nighties to bed.
 

Leaferne

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In The Beauty Myth Naomi Wolf asserts that the creation of a "third shift" for women does the same thing--you can't focus on community issues or your own soul because you're too busy trying to be pretty enough, and women are either not attractive enough, or too attractive. Ms. Wolf herself took some flak for actually being attractive: too pretty to take seriously, or "what the hell would she know about it?" The Amazon reviews are full of this sort of bile:

Naomi Wolf was a lovely young slip of a girl when she wrote this remarkably brainless book. The only reason people paid attention to this idiotic book was because Naomi was young and hot-looking. It drove Camille Paglia insane that Naomi was being treated like she knew anything about life.

You'll never be able to win. Some companies such as Dove and Olay now have marketing campaigns which say "love the skin you're in" or "every woman is beautiful in her own way" which to my cynical soul is just a nicer way of selling products. I guess I'm just surprised that men would be falling for this sort of pressure, but then I suspect maybe men are even more vulnerable to pressure because they're less likely than women to discuss their insecurities with each other or even admit to having them. Still, you'd think they (men) would say "I'm *supposed* to have hairy legs and any woman who thinks otherwise doesn't want a real man" or words to that effect. It's all very depressing. I'm sure some guys get pressure from their girlfriends/wives as well, who find male body hair objectionable, which makes me wonder if these women aren't just afraid of adult male sexuality. (Not me! Vive la difference! Bring it! ;) ) Young girls tend to have their first crushes on slightly androgynous movie/music stars like Shaun Cassidy. The Simpsons did a hilarious send-up of this by showing Lisa drooling over a magazine called "Nonthreatening Boys"; perhaps the media is starting to make all men a bit dandified and nonthreatening because it moves products off the shelves, in much the same way that the media has assigned "meaning" to women's looks.
 

Rrose_Selavy

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Someone once said that advertising takes away a Woman's love for herself - and then sells it back to her.


-
 

again6

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Leafearne, if you haven't seen him already, try to have a look at an actor by the name of (I think) Edward Burns. He writes, stars, directs and erects all the scaffolding on the sets, by the look of him. Very nice. I can't imagine anyone wanting to tamper with such perfection by suggesting he bleach his anus. Very probably, he would ask in genuine disbelief: ' The colouration of my anus affects you how, when, under what circumstance?' And he'd be right. Not all that long ago, people didn't speak about anusus (anuses, aniii or whatever). Bodies were regarded simply as vehicles for the personality and the mind. Insecure, young people were advised to develop a personality, wear a smile, have something positive to say, keep busy, help others when the opportunity arose, and so on. It's still excellent advice.

A morose, critical, negative or self-absorbed personality does not attract, regardless of how smooth and peach coloured their private bits, or how mammoth their breasts and pectorals.

Spontaneity, naturalness, humour, sincerity, honesty will always win hands down over gloss and artifice.

I imagine many beautification processes would actually further rob individuals of confidence and self-worth, such as the quiet girl who has breast-enlargement, or the insecure middle-aged male who has penis-implants. They would always fear their new partner might not love the 'real them' if their implants were removed. They very well may be, but that's a doubt they have to live with.

I think most of us would agree that some of the most attractive people we've known have been very ordinary in appearance. And after a while, you actually forget what those you love look like, from an attactiveness point of view. They are just themselves. If they're bandy-legged or have bad hair or teeth or a weird voice; doesn't matter. You love them and attempt to dissuade them from buying a hair-piece or having their nose altered, etc. Everyone is or will be attractive to several others. Woody Allen is miles apart from Edward Burns, yet look at the women who consider him attractive.

Brilliant quote from Rose (above) by the way.
 

Mythopoeika

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again said:
And it's probably helped along by the estrogen type stuff contained in so many products (which may be deliberate).

And what products might they be?
Examples, please?
Anything applied topically would have to have a very high concentration to have any effect, and as for ingesting something - that too would have to be either a genuine oestrogen, or would have to be consumed in high concentrations.
 

Sadescha

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Dove and Olay now have marketing campaigns which say "love the skin you're in" or "every woman is beautiful in her own way"

If that were the true message they wished to send, they wouldn't be pushing their "beauty products" so damned hard.

It's getting to the point nowadays that a "natural" body is disgusting to look at. Hair? Nothing below the neck, it must all be purged. Moles? Nope, gotta have those burnt off. Birth marks? Have to bleach them.

And then we get into surgically altering the body. Foreskin is icky, we have to cut it off (though thankfully not in most of the world). Labia is too long, it needs a trim. Gotta sandblast those stretch marks away. Overwight? Why diet, let's cut remove half of your stomach so you can't eat as much. And all the other stupid, frivilous crap that's pushed on us- face lifts, liposuction, electrolosus, implants, so on and so forth.

Eventually, we're not going to know what a "natural" body looks like any longer.

Me, I don't wear makeup. The only mole I had removed was because otherwise it'd end up being ripped off by a bra strap. I am content with my stretch marks (from growth, something my husband also has). I don't have the best skin, but I'll be damned before I waste money on creams, surgery, or lazers to smooth it out for me. I also don't like to shave my legs, as my skin is far too sensitive for that kind of trauma, much to my husband's disapointment (I tell him that when he starts shaving his, I'll do mine- he's not yet taken me up on the offer).

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have a few imperfections than have a whole lotta fake beauty.
 

Mighty_Emperor

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There are a number of adds for beauty products which are prime examples of: creating demand by spreading feeling on inadequacy (usually with some airbrushed lovely fronting the ad), demonstrating utterly unnecessary innovations (despite the fact that they virtually all work the same and are little better than their older products a decade ago - see also rasor ads) and then using some weird pseudoscientific doublspeak that doesn't actually link together:

X has been shown to work for Y*

Our product contains X

86% of women said they thought it worked for their Y**

--------------
Anyway a bit of throwaway plastic surgery silliness:

Woman With Huge Breasts Goes Missing

July 2, 2005, 10:00:03

Curvy woman missing

Italian police are on the lookout for a woman with enormous surgically-enhanced breasts.

The 46-year-old woman, who has been identified only by her initials AM, slipped out of her hospital bed following the surgery and disappeared.
Doctors at the Rome clinic say that apart from the unpaid bill they are also concerned for her health as she still requires medical care.

Dr Jamal Salhi said: "She told me that she needed the surgery because she worked in a hostess bar and that clients preferred big-chested women.

"She went from a size four to a size eight which is the largest you can get in Italy. When she came to my surgery she said: 'I want the biggest chest possible.'

"It has since emerged that she gave false information when she arrived at the clinic and apart from running off without paying, as with any surgery she needs to be monitored afterwards."

www.femalefirst.co.uk/bizarre/68762004.htm

----------------------------
* In a lab test on 4 rats at levels 40 times higher than our product contains

** Sample size: 30 of our friends and the office cleaner
 

Mighty_Emperor

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Grim (if true).

The beauty products from the skin of executed Chinese prisoners

· Cosmetics firm targets UK market ·
Lack of regulation puts users at risk

Ian Cobain and Adam Luck
Tuesday September 13, 2005
The Guardian

A Chinese cosmetics company is using skin harvested from the corpses of executed convicts to develop beauty products for sale in Europe, an investigation by the Guardian has discovered.

Agents for the firm have told would-be customers it is developing collagen for lip and wrinkle treatments from skin taken from prisoners after they have been shot. The agents say some of the company's products have been exported to the UK, and that the use of skin from condemned convicts is "traditional" and nothing to "make such a big fuss about".

With European regulations to control cosmetic treatments such as collagen not expected for several years, doctors and politicians say the discovery highlights the dangers faced by the increasing number of Britons seeking to improve their looks. Apart from the ethical concerns, there is also the potential risk of infection.

MPs on the Commons select health committee are to examine the regulatory system and may launch an investigation and question ministers about the need for immediate new controls. "I am sure that the committee will want to look at this," said Kevin Barron, its Labour chairman. "This is something everyone in society will be very concerned about."

Plastic surgeons are also concerned about the delay in introducing regulations to control the cosmetic treatments industry. Norman Waterhouse, a former president of the British Association of Aesthetic Plastic Surgeons, said: "I am surprised that we are taking the lead from the European commission, because this is bound to delay action on this important area which is increasingly a matter for concern. It seems like a bit of a cop out to me."

It is unclear whether any of the "aesthetic fillers" such as collagen available in the UK or on the internet are supplied by the company, which cannot be identified for legal reasons. It is also unclear whether collagen made from prisoners' skin is in the research stage or is in production. However, the Guardian has learned that the company has exported collagen products to the UK in the past. An agent told customers it had also exported to the US and European countries, and that it was trying to develop fillers using tissue from aborted foetuses.

Traditional

When formally approached by the Guardian, the agent denied the company was using skin harvested from executed prisoners. However, he had already admitted it was doing precisely this during a number of conversations with a researcher posing as a Hong Kong businessman. The Press Complaints Commission's code of practice permits subterfuge if there is no other means of investigating a matter of public interest.

The agent told the researcher: "A lot of the research is still carried out in the traditional manner using skin from the executed prisoner and aborted foetus." This material, he said, was being bought from "bio tech" companies based in the northern province of Heilongjiang, and was being developed elsewhere in China.

He suggested that the use of skin and other tissues harvested from executed prisoners was not uncommon. "In China it is considered very normal and I was very shocked that western countries can make such a big fuss about this," he said. Speaking from his office in northern China, he added: "The government has put some pressure on all the medical facilities to keep this type of work in low profile."

The agent said his company exported to the west via Hong Kong."We are still in the early days of selling these products, and clients from abroad are quite surprised that China can manufacture the same human collagen for less than 5% of what it costs in the west." Skin from prisoners used to be even less expensive, he said. "Nowadays there is a certain fee that has to be paid to the court."

The agent's admission comes after an inquiry into the cosmetic surgery industry in Britain, commissioned by the Department of Health, pointed to the need for new regulations controlling collagen treatments. Sir Liam Donaldson, the chief medical officer, has highlighted the inquiry's concerns about the use of cadavers for cosmetic treatments. "Cosmetic procedures are a rapidly growing area of private health care," he said. "We must ensure we properly protect patients' safety by improving the training and regulation."

The DoH has agreed to the inquiry's recommendations, but is waiting for the European commission to draw up proposals for laws governing cosmetic products. It could be several years before this legislation takes force.

Meanwhile, cosmetic treatments, including those with with aesthetic fillers, are growing rapidly in popularity, with around 150,000 injections or implants administered each year in the UK. Lip enhancement treatments are one of the most popular, costing an average of £170.

Some fillers are made from cattle or pig tissue, and others from humans. The DoH believes that there may be a risk of transmission of blood-borne viruses and even vCJD from collagen containing human tissue. Although there is as yet no evidence that this has happened, the inquiry found that some collagen injections had triggered inflammatory reactions causing permanent discomfort, scarring and disfigurement. In their report, the inquiry team said that if there was a risk, "action should be taken to protect patient safety through regulation".

While new regulations are to be drawn up, the department is currently powerless to regulate most human-tissue fillers intended for injection or implant, as they occupy a legal grey area. Most products are not governed by regulations controlling medical products, as they are not classified as medicines. They also escape cosmetics regulations, which only apply to substances used on the surface of the skin and not those injected beneath it. The Healthcare Commission is planning new regulations for cosmetic surgery clinics next year, but these will not control the substances used by plastic surgeons.

Hand transplants

A number of plastic surgeons have told the Guardian that they have been hearing rumours about the use of tissue harvested from executed prisoners for several years.

Peter Butler, a consultant plastic surgeon and government adviser, said there had been rumours that Chinese surgeons had performed hand transplants using hands from executed prisoners. One transplant centre was believed to be adjacent to an execution ground. "I can see the utility of it, as they have access and no ethical objection," he said. "The main concern would be infective risk."

Andrew Lee of the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, who has visited China to examine transplant techniques, said he had heard similar rumours.

Manufacturers of aesthetic fillers said they had seen Chinese collagen products on sale at trade fairs, but had not seen any labelled Chinese-made in the UK. Dan Cohen, whose US-based company, Inamed, produces collagen products, said: "We have come across Chinese products in the market place. But most products from China are being sold 'off-label' or are being imported illegally."

In China, authorities deny that prisoners' body parts are harvested without their consent. However, there is some evidence to suggest it may be happening.

In June 2001, Wang Guoqi, a Chinese former military physician, told US congressmen he had worked at execution grounds helping surgeons to harvest the organs of more than 100 executed prisoners, without prior consent. The surgeons used converted vans parked near the execution grounds to begin dissecting the bodies, he told the house international relations committee's human rights panel.

Skin was said to be highly valued for the treatment of burn victims, and Dr Wang said that in 1995 he skinned a shot convict's body while the man's heart was still beating. Dr Wang, who was seeking asylum in the US, also alleged that corneas and other body tissue were removed for transplant, and said his hospital, the Tianjin paramilitary police general brigade hospital, sold body parts for profit.

Human rights activists in China have repeatedly claimed that organs have been harvested from the corpses of executed prisoners and sold to surgeons offering transplants to fee-paying foreigners.

Dr Wang's allegations infuriated the Chinese authorities, and in a rare move officials publicly denounced him as a liar. The government said organs were transplanted from executed prisoners only if they and their family gave consent.

Although the exact number of people facing the death penalty in China is an official secret, Amnesty International believes around 3,400 were executed last year, with a further 6,000 on death row.

What is it?

Collagen is a major structural protein found in abundance in skin, bones, tendons and other connective tissue. Matted sheets of collagen give skin its toughness and by winding into molecular "cables", it adds strength to tendons.

What is it used for?

Collagen injections are used in cosmetic surgery to plump up lips and flatten out wrinkles. After botox, collagen injections are the second-most popular cosmetic operations in Britain. Collagen does not have a permanent effect and several injections are often needed.

What else is it good for?

Collagen was being put to good use as far back as the stone age. Neolithic cave dwellers around the Dead Sea are believed to have used it as a primitive form of glue some 8,000 years ago. More recently, researchers have developed a form that can be poured or injected into wounds to seal them.

Where does it come from?

A number of sources. Some companies extract it from cow skin and treat it to minimise the risk of allergic reactions or infection. Others collect it from human donors or extract cells from the patient before growing the necessary amount in a laboratory.

Is it safe?

Collagen can cause allergic reactions if it has not been treated correctly, and there is a theoretical risk of disease being passed on. A small amount of collagen is often injected into the skin a few weeks before treatment to test for possible allergic reactions. Earlier this year, Sir Liam Donaldson warned that collagen injections could spread conditions such as hepatitis and variant CJD, the human form of mad cow disease.

www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1568467,00.html

For a previous report on the removal of organs from dead Chinese prisoners see:

www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 657#427657
 

glamour_dust

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Has anyone seen Hillary Duff lately?I never knew of her existence before my six year old niece started watching her show "Lizzie Mcguire" on a daily basis. I always thought she was really cute and had a pretty face to look at. Imagine my shock and disappointment when I saw her in a music video recently and her face just looked "wrong". I had to find out why, and to my utter disbelief I learnt that she had done something called "veneers" to her teeth and had her cheeks liposucted among other things. Many people have compared her new appearance to a horse. I just don't understand how someone so naturally pretty could want to alter herself so drastically at such a young age. Even my niece noticed the difference, and now I'm careful to affirm her natural beauty and let her know that making such drastic changes to her appearance is wholly unnecessary. Luckily, my niece also finds Hillary's "new face" rather strange. I just think it's sad that such young girls feel they need to tamper with their appearance in order to be attractive.

Pic of hilary before and after here

Large pic of her here(scroll down and under Celeb Galleries click "Plastic Surgery Shockers")
 

Xanatico

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I thought it was the lowest link that was for the before and after pictures. Imagine my shock to find that before her plastic sugery Hillary Duff looked just like Michael Douglas.

And looking at the other link, how nice to find a site called kidzworld in all nice pastel colours discussing plastic surgery. I wonder what age I was before I even knew such a thing as plastic surgery existed.
 
A

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Leaferne said:
On the "Ugly pictures of once-beautiful stars" thread there's a link to a pic of Gillian Anderson looking like any other blonde bimbo--why?! She was so lovely and unique before.

Anderson looks very lovely in Bleak House. :oops:
 

Mighty_Emperor

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A hot topic racing across the Internet is the subject of Anal Bleaching. People are desperate to know if it is real or just another urban myth. Well, Crappers Quarterly went under cover and behind the scenes to find out the truth about Anal Bleaching and its sister treatment Vaginal Bleaching.

...

Many skin lighteners contain an active ingredient called "Kojic Acid" or Hydroquinone. The chairwoman of the Australian Medical Association's ethics committee, Rosanna Capolingua, says the use of harsh bleaching substances could cause anal burning and scarring. This, in turn, could lead to anal incontinence or an inability to pass stools at all.

:shock:

More (nothing that'd turn your hair white but possibly not worksafe as there are keywords that could raise an electrnic eyebrow or two):
http://crappersquarterly.com/features/analbleaching.htm
 

escargot

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:shock:

That client resembles someone I know very well!
 

mindalai

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Wow. How much would you have to hate yourself to get that done?
 

emmbob

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Leaferne said:
Have y'all seen this?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iYhCn0jf46U

then go read this.

It's sad the number of people who don't 'get' the dove commercial (going on the comments left on that page and in other places I've seen).

I love that Ms Curtis is doing (has done) that photoshoot. Hopefully it'll make more women more comfortable with their bodies.

Speaking of which, I was flicking through one of my boyfriend's Mum's horrible lifestyle magazines, and saw an ad for a bum-shaped cushion that you put down the back of your pants so you can look like Jennifer Lopez! The 'before' picture of that ad was like the 'after' picture of any plastic surgery promotion, if you know what I mean.
 

OldTimeRadio

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Leaferne said:
Resting my head on a strong hairy chest is one of the great joys of this woman's life. (I usually get the chest owner's permission first)

As a very young man I was deeply ashamed of having a hirshute torso (I couldn't square it with the "dreamy poet" image I was desperately trying to cultivate).....until I realized that the most feminine women I knew liked it.

....Gillian Anderson looking like any other blonde bimbo--why?! She was so lovely and unique before.

I agree save for the "unique." Or am I the only one who thought that Ms. Anderson much resembled Barbara Stanwyck?
 

OldTimeRadio

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What was the name of the American-born British socialite from circa 1925-1930 who had her face re-shaped by injections of beeswax?

Then the wax hardened/shifted/cracked/melted....

"I clearly requested the dark veil, Marie."
 

escargot

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This the only plastic surgery thread I can find, surely we have others?

Anyway, look at this horrific state of a woman. She seems to have really done this although the photos look fake.

Nurse Has Spent Over £55,000 On Plastic Surgery And Is Planning Even More

The 31-year-old says she will never stop having plastic surgery as she wants to fulfil the “plastic doll” aesthetic, which means she will have to invest even more of her money into continuing this look.
The Instagrammer has had five separate breast augmentations, with her most recent implant size being 1055cc. Alongside this, she’s also had buttock implants, veneers, botox and fillers.

If it's true I predict a sad end for her.
 

Frideswide

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She gives me the fear. On what planet is that supposed to be attractive?

It does support the statement that the motivation /isn't/ to be attractive to anyone in the usual run of things.
 

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This the only plastic surgery thread I can find, surely we have others?

Anyway, look at this horrific state of a woman. She seems to have really done this although the photos look fake.

Nurse Has Spent Over £55,000 On Plastic Surgery And Is Planning Even More



If it's true I predict a sad end for her.

One really must question the ethics of the doctors/surgeons who perform the procedures on her. Surely she has body issues that no amount of surgery will rectify in her eyes. They really ought to be refusing to operate and be suggesting that she seek help/counselling. But then, as always, you can lead a horse to water...
 

escargot

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One really must question the ethics of the doctors/surgeons who perform the procedures on her. Surely she has body issues that no amount of surgery will rectify in her eyes. They really ought to be refusing to operate and be suggesting that she seek help/counselling. But then, as always, you can lead a horse to water...

It's a market and she's a customer, she can whatever she can pay for. It's a WELL dodgy field of medicine.
One imagines the surgeons who operate saying 'Well, if I don't do it SOMEBODY will and she needs to be safe, not in one of those cheapjack clinics...'

She will never be satisfied with how she looks.
 

Lord Lucan

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It's a market and she's a customer, she can whatever she can pay for. It's a WELL dodgy field of medicine.
One imagines the surgeons who operate saying 'Well, if I don't do it SOMEBODY will and she needs to be safe, not in one of those cheapjack clinics...'

She will never be satisfied with how she looks.

I agree with everything you say, however on the other side of the coin, I'm a firm believer that there ought to be no dodgy fields of medicine.
 

escargot

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I agree with everything you say, however on the other side of the coin, I'm a firm believer that there ought to be no dodgy fields of medicine.

Yup, there shouldn't, but the justification is as above; if a patient wants it badly enough they will go to great lengths to get it. They are safer being treated by a real doctor in hygienic conditions.
Not saying that does justify it, just pointing out how it's done.

Also, who's to say what's dodgy? Operations and treatments that were once illegal are mainstream now whereas ones that were once acceptable (in certain cultures at least) are prohibited. It's all an ethical minefield.
 

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It's a market and she's a customer, she can whatever she can pay for. It's a WELL dodgy field of medicine.
One imagines the surgeons who operate saying 'Well, if I don't do it SOMEBODY will and she needs to be safe, not in one of those cheapjack clinics...'

She will never be satisfied with how she looks.
I can see both sides of the coin here, but surely there must be a mental health angle that any ethical medical person ought to consider. I daresay her lips were far from the most expensive "job" she had done, but they look truly horrific. If she can't see that, she needs help. And if she can't ask for help, someone ought to at least say "no". OK, it's her money, and her choice, but she pretty much says she'll never stop going under the knife.
 

escargot

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I can see both sides of the coin here, but surely there must be a mental health angle that any ethical medical person ought to consider. I daresay her lips were far from the most expensive "job" she had done, but they look truly horrific. If she can't see that, she needs help. And if she can't ask for help, someone ought to at least say "no". OK, it's her money, and her choice, but she pretty much says she'll never stop going under the knife.

Yup, she says she'll never stop and she probably won't, and there will always be some clinic ready to take her money.
To save her from that other lot, those charlatans, of course.

As you say, there is a mental health issue. These stories never end well.
 
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