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Fairies, Pixies, Elves, Sprites & Other Little Folk

When I was 4, my grandfather gave me a very old book about flower fairies. It was obviously a work of fiction, which depicted enchanting, ethereal beings, garbed in different flimsy attire according to which flower they belonged to. I was sold on the idea of fairies from then on.
It wasn't until I was an adult that I began to wonder if he had an ulterior motive for giving me the book. After all, the ancient Romans believed in tutelary guardians of trees, streams etc.. So why not flowers as well?
:) :) :)
 
What amused me about the original report was that the mighty Randi rumbled into action so that a balanced view could be displayed.

Funny how he finds time to respond to newspapers but not to humble FT message board enquiries.

As to the Fair folk, I find them no more difficult to believe in than guardian Angels.
 
Crypto... (zoological? anthropological?) theory

There is a theory that the Celtic legends of the "Fair Folk" (actually not fair-haired but dark in Celtic mythology) and "Little People" are based on the Picts who were supposedly driven out of Ireland by the Celts, who were described as being short and dark. They supposedly fled to Scotland and were (presumably) assimilated or exterminated by the (Celtic) Scots.

The "fringe" versions of this theory claim that in fact these short, dark people, whose culture is a mystery, were in fact the last remnant of Neanderthal or other prehistoric/pre-human "people", and that they persisted into medieval or even modern times as these dangerous, elusive "Brownies", "Leprechauns" and other varieties of "little people".

Interestingly this is very similar to some records of Orang Pendek, or very similar creatures (cant remember the name offhand, but its in the Orang Pendek chapter of Heuvelmans's "On The Track Of.." who were exterminated around 1700 in (i think) Sri Lanka.

There is a story about these "brownies" called "No Mans Land" by John Buchan which is on http://www.herper.com as a PDF download (http://www.herper.com/ebooks/library/biofort/CZfic6.pdf) which implies that the tales of "changelings" and faeries taking away human infants are due to inbreeding in the small relict population requiring an influx of new blood, thus making them close enough to human to interbreed (like the Russian Almas or "wild people" such as Zana who had children by several Russians).
 
I lived in a village near Hinkley Point nuclear power station ( I started a thread on this but there wasn't much interest ) and there was a big fairy thing going on there , the villagers believed that the power station was built on a fairy house and this had made the fairies angry , any accident at the station was blamed on the fairies , people seemed to talk about the fairies a lot , from old people to children , it is a very strange corner of the country round there.
 
I remember hearing somthing about different levels of reallity of somthing between ours and the celestrial plain (sp?) and that beings (fairies) exist on this other level

I dont no how much truth there is in this
 
-Oracle- said:
Dragons/Unicorn: Creatures that became extinct in our realm many centuries ago. The Unicorn proved impossible to capture so magic was used and this killed them instantly and returned their souls to the Ethereal worlds.

dont forget the welsh flag (rioman in origin?)
apparently there 3 dragons 1 the land 2 the peolpe 3 ?
and the legend of the red welsh dragon and the white saxon dragon. all myths and legends have a grain of truth no matter how small

djw- please read the globe-science of diskworld II by t. pratchett, i. stewart and j. cohen
 
For as long as I can remember, I’ve always sensed the presence of a spirit world – another dimension which sort of surrounds but also flows through our own. Although I believe in the possibility of many other dimensions, this is the only one whose “existence” I sense around me. I feel it is connected to the Earth in some way. When I gaze into a cornfield, into the woods, or up at the clouds I see a kind of intelligence shouting back at me. It speaks to me not in words or even telepathy, but in a kind of vibration that resonates in my entire being.

I feel I am not the first person to feel this. I believe this same awareness is what gave rise to the animistic outlook of many cultures around the world, and the “belief” in nature spirits/elementals. I’ve always felt that spirits (fairies, demons, ghosts, ect.) are inhabitants of this “imaginary” realm. They are also made up of the same essence/material of this realm and are therefore, in a sense, emanations from it - encapsulations of a certain state of consciousness if you will. It isn’t that I believe in fairies so much as I “know” they exist (he he;) ). I feel them/it all around me.

Does anyone else have this sense I described, or perhaps something similar?
 
Is this anything like the landscape sentience described in Alan Garner's latest novel?

Kath
 
I havn't read any of his books and I'm not familiar with the term "landscape sentience." It sounds like it's as good a description as any of what I was describing, but since I don't know what the author meant, I can't say for sure.
 
Alan Garner is a biiiig hero locally as his early books are set just up the road from here. I was forced to read them as a kid at school. I liked the 'supernatural landscape' idea but hated the way all the action was done by boys/men/male magicians while the lead female, Susan, squealed and wet herself.

OK that's an exaggeration. But only just.
 
LOL to escargot! yes, I know what you mean... I wonder if they'd be different if he was writing them now?

I seem to remember they fitted into the society of the time which was pretty grim.

Kath
 
Alan Garner is a biiiig hero locally as his early books are set just up the road from here.

Alderley Edge? Have you been to the mystical "Wizard Water" spring in the woods on the edge? I drank some once, just to see if it could impart some magic powers to me, no sign yet.
 
If you take some of the folk they are almost impossibly grotesque and hideous. Things like Redcaps, immensely strong flesh-eating goblins who bathe their caps in the blood of their human victims, or the welsh Water-Leapers, which are kind of winged toads who jump from water to knock fishermen out of their boats still count as fairies.

Even some of the foxy ones can be deceitful, the Boabhan Sith appear as beautiful women who seduce men and drank their blood very much in the style of central european vampires.

Typically the older fairies get divided into two groups, the Seelie and Unseelie - I think the words are part of the same root as the modern term "seemly" - and you really don't want to meet any of the unseelie court on a dark night. The divisions are not that strong and the Seelie court are still fairly dodgy, tending to keep you for hundreds of years if you pop in to visit, so that as soon as you touch mortal soil you turn to dust, and playing all manner of tricks on humans.

For a fairly accurate portrayal of traditional fairies try reading Lords and Ladies by Terry Pratchett.

Edit: I just realised that I had replied to Cujo's post without realising that there was a page of comments between then and now, but now I've written all this, I'm not going to delete it, so if everyone would pretend I posted it a few weeks ago, that would be great...

What is Alan Garner's most recent book, btw?
 
Breakfast said:
Typically the older fairies get divided into two groups, the Seelie and Unseelie - I think the words are part of the same root as the modern term "seemly" - and you really don't want to meet any of the unseelie court on a dark night. The divisions are not that strong and the Seelie court are still fairly dodgy, tending to keep you for hundreds of years if you pop in to visit, so that as soon as you touch mortal soil you turn to dust, and playing all manner of tricks on humans.

I thought that the seelie/unseelie distinction reflected, in part, which half of the sharply bi-lineated Celtic year held sway over their natures. In effect dark/light, but this division also mirrored that between the mortal world and the underworld and so a fairy's classification could also reflect the more common realm of its activity and influence. The distinction is never absolute, however, as the one half is also the harbinger of the next and liminal entities inhabit the borderlands.

Or something :)
 
stonedoggy said:
Is this anything like the landscape sentience described in Alan Garner's latest novel?
Could anyone describe to me how Alan Garner evokes his "landscape Sentience?" Is it similar to my description a few posts above? Perhaps, you could quote something from his book. Does he include elementals that serve as personifications of nature? Do trees "talk" to people? I'm curious.
 
Re: Fairys

Bagins said:
Hi I have two questions
1 what do you persive a fairy to be?
2 do you acknolage their posible existance?

Wm

1. Rangers back four.
2. Yes, providers of so much comedy :)

Real answer, of course not. I did until I found out the Cottingley fairies weren't real.

Little people with wings running around the countryside? Come on people. Live in the now!
 
I always thought that the faerie myths came about as a result of one culture invading another one.

Like in Ireland, where the Tuatha were supplanted by the next invading culture (Milesians?). I can imagine the mothers of small Irish children warning them against playing in the woods with the words, "The fairies will get you", when they were really talking about the former occupants of the countryside.

What I mean is that 'faerie' is a catch all term for the past denizens of the country you invaded a few generations ago...and I'm not explaining this very well am I? I'm going for a lie down..
 
I don't believe in the wee folk, but they're there.
I was told as a young child that it was bad luck to cut down a White Thorn, or Hawthorn tree as that was where the faeries lived.
Witches allegedly made their broomsticks from Hawthorn branches and the tree itself was seen as a doorway to the supernatural world.
 
I perceive fairies to be a collective term for various manifestations of Elemental beings.

Yes, in that sense, I do believe in them.
 
The waves of invasion theory is a compelling one - although attributing the fairies fear of iron to their origins as conquered bronze-age peoples is pushing things a little far, but I seem to recall that there are some fairly strong arguments against it.

The Tuatha de Danaan can be clearly seen to be gods if you look at their descriptions and activities- although I suppose these could come from some kind of revered ancestor origin- and I would think that perhaps the fair folk are not so much the physical remains of conquered peoples but the cultural ones, their gods and demons - some of which are perhaps in their turn derived from the previously conquered inhabitants.
 
It`s nice to see an old thread come back to the top.

I have since this was started noted that most "cultures" have somthing like "fairies" where ever they are be it Africa, New Zealand, Austraila, ect. and in virtualy all they are something to be treated with repect or idealy avoided at all costs!

Wm.
 
some comments on earlier responses

To all:

Some comments on some points related to this thread.

First, the comments on Occam's Razor. Cujo, Breakfast and rynner all contribute their version of the definition of the term. Occam's Razor, and, particularly, its evident rabid usage by those who seem determined not to extend credence to anything not covered by "traditional science", is a commonplace on the Fortean Times site. Its invoking, by those who refuse to accept anything that the journal Nature has not "anointed" as "true", seems to all but guarantee that the thread being discussed is destined to become a wasteland of cunning and precious swipes at those who dare to acknowledge the existence of something beyond what can be measured on an oscilloscope. "Traditionalists" consider the invoking of Occam's Razor as a kind of summa qua non, meaning that they seem to brand as "idiot" anyone who continues to argue their case in the face of that rule. Unfortunately, too, many who do believe in aspects to the world beyond the immediate do not seem to feel the equal of contesting the legitimacy of the principles. This has gone a long way toward granting Occam's Razor a not very palatable air among those not counted among the ranks of the fanatically skeptical.

To be fair, a large part of this can be laid to the way in which the devotees of the apparent mean-minded, unflagging intent to disbelieve particular things, which has come to be called "skepticism", handle the principle. Much of the bad taste associated with mention of the rule, too, can be attributed to some evidently spectacular failings in the principle itself!

Among the fanatically skeptical - and, be assured, there is just such a group! - Occam's Razor seems intended only as a bludgeon for further discussion, not a tool of understanding. The fanatically skeptical are a breed of individual, basically invested with a degree of venom commonly seen, throughout history. In the wake of the apparent attempted hegemonic hijacking of society by "traditional science", these individuals jumped on the science bandwagon, evidently because they seem to consider them better funded, and less scrupulous. And, from this vantage, they unleash their assaults on the sensitivities of those they would see as their prey. Basically, Occam's Razor is an engine of spite. Despite all the evidence in favor of anything not in accordance with "traditional science" - and until "traditional science", apparently, finds a way to make a buck on the phenomenon! - the fanatically skeptical will utterly, completely and categorically refuse to accede its existence!

And they will use Occam's Razor as a means toward that end.

Someone may posit that they actually saw a transparent being from the Fairy World hovering in the air, before them. Just to see them squirm, the fanatically skeptical would say that believing it was a fairy violates Occam's Razor. They then would proceed with claiming some cockamamie concoction of conditions so unlikely as to be all but impossible. Someone on the other side of the hill was using a super high powered lamp, for some purpose, and someone just happened to be nearby when the light was turned on. The light shone off them, hitting a nearby placid body of water at a particularly shallow angle. This mirage of light, then, was bounced up into the atmosphere, where it reflected off a low lying layer of ice crystals, after which it was reflected back toward the observer. Between the ice crystals on the observer, there was an area of light fog, and the light shone through the fog, looking like it was coming from some place close to the observer.

Which is simpler, that the vision was a fairy, or that the complicated "traditional" interaction occurred?

The fanatically skeptical, however, will stand by their explanation. And, if it is disproved, they will simply cobble together another "traditional" explanation, no matter how non-credible. And, after that, yet another "traditional" explanation. And another. And another. And another. Anything to avoid saying that the non-traditional are right!

And it is here that the inherent failings of the rule come into play.

Because, in its most general application, Occam's Razor does rather resemble a car with the brake off, rolling downhill. It careens forward, rolling over everything in its path, plowing into anything that gets in its way. It may be a beautiful piece of machinery, but it still is acting like a Juggernaut.

That's because, like Occam's Razor, the car rolling downhill doesn't have a brake. Occam's Razor may have specifically defined directions for its use, but there are, apparently, no provisions given for when to stop using it! Those devoted to its use are only given the "benediction" by Occam's Razor to use it and keep on using it! They are directed, at no time, when to stop! No matter how ludicrous and palpably unlikely a combination of "traditional" factors is, Occam's Razor recommends invoking them; it stands behind them and gives them "credibility"; and it gives the fanatically skeptical the ammunition they crave to "justify" harassing the non-traditional in their pursuits!

They posit laughable - and insultingly insipid - “counter explanation” after “counter explanation”, apparently all the while chuckling up their sleeve at the discomfort they are causing the believers in the enigmatic!

In fact, Occam’s Razor shapes up as little more than a pseudo-philosophical codification of the “fanatical skeptic’s” apparent mean streak!

There seems more honor in thinking twice about using Occam's Razor than there is in using it.

To be a guide, a method must show a history of being able to direct someone in the right direction, in a reasonable amount of time. Occam’s Razor seems not to be any better, in directing inquiry, than just choosing a theory at random, then testing it. For its part, Occam’s Razor seems to serve no more purpose than simply forestalling the “fanatical skeptics” accepting the theories of the non-traditionalists. While you can gussy spitefulness up in five syllable words, it’s still like a hog in a party dress. And, while that may facilitate the machinations of the malign, it can be a long ways off from an appropriate methodology for pursuing the truth.

Another point I just wanted to make in passing is to be careful booting up the website http://www.fayerie.cjb.net, mentioned by DanJW. When I did, it essentially hijacked my computer. First, it froze the screen. Then, it seemed to turn the status bar into a button. Then, sequentially, it seemed to start to deactivate parts of the workspace. Finally, I had to turn the computer off manually, then restart it, causing the software to have to run through the kind of assay of files that usually occurs, when the system is not shut down through the software. Think twice before going to that site.



Julian Penrod
 
Another point I just wanted to make in passing is to be careful booting up the website http://www.fayerie.cjb.net, mentioned by DanJW. When I did, it essentially hijacked my computer. First, it froze the screen. Then, it seemed to turn the status bar into a button. Then, sequentially, it seemed to start to deactivate parts of the workspace. Finally, I had to turn the computer off manually, then restart it, causing the software to have to run through the kind of assay of files that usually occurs, when the system is not shut down through the software. Think twice before going to that site.
- Julianpenrod
How fitting for a site devoted to faries.;)
 
Re: some comments on earlier responses

julianpenrod said:
To all:

Some comments on some points related to this thread.

First, the comments on Occam's Razor. Cujo, Breakfast and rynner all contribute their version of the definition of the term. Occam's Razor, and, particularly, its evident rabid usage by those who seem determined not to extend credence to anything not covered by "traditional science", is a commonplace on the Fortean Times site.

Perhaps you should take some of your own advice and not make assumptions about people.

I am no 'skeptic' since I doubt "traditional science" just as much as I doubt faires.

In fact I doubt everything including, but not limited to, my own existance.

I see no reason why there should not be faries. I also see no reason why there should be faries.

My own Great Great Grandfather told a story about a visit to the 'wee folk' but I have no idea if he believed the story himself. He claimed that it happened to him but there is a tradition in Scots story-telling of always telling a story in the first person so it may have been an eyewitness account from someone else, or a made up story that he had heard somwhere or something that really happened to him.

Cujo
 
That's a lot of occams razor for a discussion of the fair folk- I try not to read posts that long as a matter of principle but I'm not certain that it adds anything to the discussion of the principle we had at the start of this thread. Perhaps it needs (or has, I don't recall) a thread of it's own? I was in a band called Occam's Razor once. We were pretty good.

I found a fairy path the other day. I was quite lost in the woods near where I live when I found a broad, clear and dead straight path through the trees carpetted with very lush green grass. As it was going roughly the right direction, as far as I could tell, I wandered off along it for about 500 metres, whereupon it suddenly ended at a deep ditch in the midst of a really marshy bit of the forest. There was absolutely no reason for there to be a path there.

I'm not suggesting that it was actually created by fairies with the intention to distract lost people and make them more lost, but I could really see why something like that would be attributed to some kind of tricksy entity. I have no idea what the origins of the path or reasons for its construction might have been. And I have never been able to find it since*.




*Also, I haven't looked for it. The two may be connected.
 
I've gradually become fascinated by the phenomena of 'little people' which seems to exist in all cultures. This is mainly after reading 'Poltergeist!' by Colin Wilson, 'The Invisible Landscape' by Terence McKenna and 'The Mothman Prophecies' by John Keel.

In all of them, little people feature and many Fortean topics are linked to them - such as UFOs being a 'modern manefestation of the fairy phenomena'. The number of people on this board with interesting stories about them and the folklore surrounding them is surprisingly high...

So then - does anyone have any more information about them and their links with other Fortean subjects? :)
 
Fasinating topic, one that I'm interested in and that hasn't been as explored as it should. (IMHO). Check out these threads:

Ann Jefferies' Fairy Experiences:
http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9948&highlight=fairies

Djinn & Genies
http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8299&highlight=fairies

And I want to quote myself from the "Faries: Pah" thread:

To get a good idea about the back story of fairies as alien creatures who are terrifying and beautiful, you should real Robert Kirk's The Secret Commonwealth. The author is rumored to have fallen under the fairies control at the end of his life.

Here is a link to a sum-up of the book; at the bootom of the page, it links to a full-text version on-line.

http://www.parascope.com/nb/cautionarytales/cautionarytales02.htm

Here is some of the review from the site, detailing Kirk's end:

"The scholarly minister's interest in the Good People (as fairies were euphemistically called) proved unhealthy. Kirk's monograph was finished in 1691. A short time later, after the minister returned from London to Aberfoyle, he went for an evening stroll in his nightshirt. Kirk's perambulations took him past a fairy mound near his home. While passing by the mound (or walking over it, according to some accounts), the 47 year-old scholar collapsed. He was found and brought home, but died soon after and was buried in the kirkyard of his own church. Kirk's death on or near a fairy mound must have made his parishioners shudder, but an even weirder postscript would be added to the case.

One of Kirk's relatives was awakened in the night by the apparition of the dead minister. Kirk gave him a message for his cousin, one Graham of Duchray. I am not dead, Kirk's specter declared. The Good People had carried him off. He had one chance to escape their clutches: when Kirk's posthumous child was christened (his wife being pregnant when he died), Kirk's apparition would appear at the ceremony. Graham of Duchray was to throw an iron-bladed knife over the head of the minister's specter. Iron was a powerful counter to fairy magic, and Kirk would be released from their power by this act. (One wonders what would become of his corpse, buried securely in the Aberfoyle cemetery... but some folk in Aberfoyle claimed that Kirk's body was abducted, not just his soul. His coffin, it was said, was buried with nothing in it but stones.)

The child was born, and duly christened. While the family dined afterward, Kirk appeared before them. Unfortunately, his cousin Graham was so thunderstruck by this vision he failed to throw his knife as directed. Kirk's spirit faded away, never to be seen again. Well into the twentieth century people in Aberfoyle maintained that Robert Kirk was not really dead, but lived as an eternal captive in fairyland. "


http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=292&highlight=fairies
 
My dad, normally a very good driver recently had his car go off the road and into a field near my parent's home in Yorkshire. It came off near a bridge - the name struck me as being kind too good to be true: it's called "Boggart's Bridge"...

Oooooh! :eek!!!!: :eek!!!!:
 
Nice post Mr R.i.n.g - just off to look at them all.

Giantrobot - if you don't have a copy of Katharine Briggs' encuclopedia would you like a wee penguin book of extracts from it as a pressie? Very pocket sized and good for reading at opportune moments.

Kath
 
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