Flooded Kingdoms

Jim

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That being the case, i.e.: a stepped melt off response for the last ice age. And with Gobeki Tepe (proven) and the Sphinx (likely) going back (12 to 11.5) thousand years. And with Jericho and Damascus going back at least 10 thousand years. Then perhaps not all the earliest cultures were not in the ME.
If the early Brits or whoever was farming back then, they were in the direction of another early civilization. I realize their are other sites in the world up for consideration, but they are contested. I like when scientist of numerous disciplines can agree on a site say: geologist, archeologist. climatology, etc.
 

Ice

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Similar as when an engineer decided to take a closer look at volcanoes and the long period events just prior an eruption. The long period event is detectable on a seismograph when the volcano pressurizing. Often difficult to see in the A-waves and B-waves when the magma is breaking rocks.

The scientific community is pretty good to deal with, but it has one major weakness. It is very conservative, the scientific methods shall be used all the time without biases, but the scientific community doesn't work that way.
 

Cavynaut

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Other posts on this thread (don't have time to search now) show that 'The End of the Ice Age' was not a one-off event, but covered a series of sea-level rises, with pauses in between. The flooding of Doggerland was one of the later events in this series.
Wasn't Doggerland finally finished off by the Storegga (sp?) Slide?
 

rynner2

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Dunwich: The storms that destroyed 'lost town'
By David Whiteley Presenter, BBC Inside Out East

Evidence of violent storms that destroyed a lost town known as Britain's Atlantis has been uncovered.
The finds were uncovered off the coast of Dunwich, Suffolk - a small village which in the 11th Century was one of the largest towns in England.
The town was hit by a succession of storms in the 13th and 14th centuries and is now largely below the sea.

Researchers said sediment gathered from the cliffs independently corroborated the historical record.
Professor David Sear, of the University of Southampton, said Dunwich was hit by huge storms on an annual basis.
"[They were] like the south coast storms of 2013-14, at least once a year for decades," he said.

The three-year research off Dunwich has been funded by Touching the Tide, a £900,000 Heritage Lottery Fund scheme to explore the changing Suffolk coast.
A diver used ultrasound to "illuminate" finds on the seabed, and the marshes and eroding cliffs were surveyed.
"It offers a marvellous history of climate change and coastal erosion," said Prof Sear with regards to the findings.

In the 11th Century, Dunwich was the 10th largest town in England, but now has about 120 residents.
Two great storms in 1286 and 1326 resulted in the loss of its harbour and started its decline.
Prof Sear said pollen analysis revealed how "people gave up on Dunwich" after 1338, when another great storm silted up the port for good, and food production declined.
Sediment gathered from the cliffs, he said, "independently confirmed the sequences of storms recorded in the historical record".

Dating of the old defensive town ditch produced a result which surprised the researchers - suggesting the town's origins date back to the Iron Age.
The underwater research has been carried out using acoustic imaging technology, and has unearthed a series of buildings.
"We use sound to create a video image of the seabed and the reason we do that is because when you dive at Dunwich it's pitch black," Prof Sear said.
"We found the ruins of about four churches and we've also found ruins of what we think was a toll house. But we've also found shipwrecks for example, and there's some we've found with this Touching the Tide project, which no-one's known before."

The shipwreck was found on the seabed just north of the village.
The ribs of the 32m (105ft) ship are covered in a thin sheet of copper, dating it from after 1750.
Prof Sear, who has been researching Dunwich since 2008, said he did not yet know "the identity or type of wreck", but was working with local museums to source this information.

A dig in 2015 discovered evidence of Dunwich's prehistoric origins, as well as evidence it was "a substantial Saxon port, prior to its rapid growth following the Norman invasion".
Bill Jenman, from Touching the Tide, said: "We found loads of pottery, a lot more than we've found before, so sort of High Medieval - the peak of the affluence of Dunwich.

"We can push the story of Dunwich certainly back to the Iron Age, and we know people were here back into the Stone Age. We know it was a fairly major town in the Anglo-Saxon period."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-35549952
 

rynner2

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Fascinating video about a little-known feature between India and Sri Lanka:
I can't say that anything in that video impressed me very much.

But the bridge is largely natural. In a post glacial time of rising sea levels, the waters would encroach over the low-lying land between India and Sri Lanka from both north and south, until only a narrow strip remained. The people living thereabouts may have tried to protect this natural connection by building a causeway on top of it, which would explain any man-made structures that are found there, but as the seas continued to rise the causeway too would become submerged...

But the video is a hodge-podge of ideas that don't join up very well. Would not a fleet of ships be even more versatile than a fixed bridge? Not enough timber to build them? Well, how about using the famous flying ships, the Vimanas instead?

More info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam's_Bridge

(There's probably more on this thread already.)
 
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A group of scientists claim they have found evidence to support the stories of a flood from chinese history. A flood that is said to have begun the age of imperial dynasties.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/science/china-great-flood-xia-emperor-yu.html?_r=0
Legend has it that a great flood engulfed China 4000 years ago. Lasting for more than 20 years, it was finally tamed by the heroic efforts of Emperor Yu, whose Xia dynasty marked the birth of Chinese civilisation and its transition into the Bronze Age.

“This was the first stage in the founding of Chinese civilisation,” says Wu Qinglong of Nanjing Normal University. “But no scientific evidence had been discovered until now.”

This lack of evidence for such a flood had prompted some to challenge the truth of the story.

But we now have the first compelling evidence that the flood did actually happen at the time and place chronicled in the legend.

In the Jishi Gorge, along the Yellow river, his team discovered rocks and sedimentary formations that could only have existed as a result of a cataclysmic flood. ...

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...id=SOC|NSNS|2016-Echobox#link_time=1470338255
 

rynner2

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Cornwall Council publishes study showing impact of 12,000 years of sea level rises on Scillies
By WBtgainey | Posted: August 20, 2016

A legendary lost island which was said to have extended westwards from Land's End to the Isles of Scilly and reported to have had fair-sized towns and 140 churches before being engulfed by the sea has inspired a new tidal study.

The Lyonesse Project, which studies of the impact of sea level rise on the Isles of Scilly over the last 12,000 years, has been formally published by Cornwall Council, marking a culmination of seven years of work.

Since the mid-eighteenth century archaeological remains including stone walls have been discovered below high water in the Isles of Scilly – which were one large island 9,000 years ago and commonly associated with the enigmatic lost land of Lyonesse.

"The new data shows that the 500-year period between 2500 and 2000 BC saw the most rapid loss of land at any time in the history of Scilly — equivalent to losing two-thirds of the entire modern area of the islands" said Charlie Johns, archaeology projects officer from Cornwall Archaeological Unit.
"After this the rate of change slowed significantly so that by circa 1500 BC the pattern of islands was approaching that of today, but with the dramatic difference of a vast intertidal area of saltmarsh in what is now the islands' inner lagoon.
"Much of this would have remained useful land, especially for grazing animal stock and would have been passable with ease almost all of the time."

He added that it was not until there was an open channel north of St Mary's during most states of the tide that the saltmarsh began to erode rapidly and that radiocarbon dates propose this is likely to have occurred in the early medieval period.
The timing and nature of the changing land area and the separation of the islands has been the subject of much debate and influenced Professor Charles Thomas's classic book: 'Exploration of a Drowned Landscape'. [Recomended by rynner]

The Project was commissioned by Historic England after a local diver, Todd Stevens, discovered a submerged forest in St. Mary's Road.
The aim of the project was to recreate the evolution of the physical environment of Scilly during the Holocene, examine the progressive occupation of this changing coastal landscape by early peoples, explore past and present climate change and sea-level.
The team also aimed to promote better understanding of the islands' historic environment, encourage community engagement with the historic environment and improve time management.

Inspector of ancient monuments for Historic England in the South West, Daniel Ratcliffe, said: "Historic England is very pleased to have funded this ground breaking research.
"Our understanding of the internationally important archaeological heritage of Scilly, is fundamentally bound up in our understanding of environmental change.
"This new cutting edge research will be instrumental in refining our knowledge of how Scilly's populations have responded to the ever present challenges of living within an evolving coastline throughout history."

The project was carried out between 2009 and 2013 by the Cornwall Archaeological Unit, part of Cornwall Council, with a team of experts from Oxford, Exeter, Plymouth, Cardiff, Aberystwyth and Glasgow Universities as well as Historic England's Scientific Dating Team.
Experts and volunteers from the Cornwall and Isles of Scilly Maritime Archaeological Society and the Islands Maritime Archaeology Group were also involved in the project.

The teams analysed samples of pollen and peat recovered from a variety of sites during the project, including the submerged forest and beaches, to gain a unique insight into the development of the landscape through the Holocene period, set against the backdrop of changing sea levels.

Cornwall Council published 'The Lyonese Project: a study of the historic coastal and marine environment of the Isles of Scilly' by Dan J. Charman, Charles Johns, Kevin Camidge, Peter Marshall, Steve Mills, Jacqui Mulville, Helen M Roberts and Todd Stevens at the end of July.

http://www.cornishman.co.uk/cornwal...-on-scillies/story-29622208-detail/story.html
 

Peripart

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I can't say that anything in that video impressed me very much.

But the bridge is largely natural. In a post glacial time of rising sea levels, the waters would encroach over the low-lying land between India and Sri Lanka from both north and south, until only a narrow strip remained. The people living thereabouts may have tried to protect this natural connection by building a causeway on top of it, which would explain any man-made structures that are found there, but as the seas continued to rise the causeway too would become submerged...
There was some interesting Hindu legend, and some thought-provoking ideas about whether mythical ape-men were actually early hominids, but the idea that a bridge was built by contemporaries of homo erectus over 1 million years ago seems a bit too far-fetched.

As you say, Rynner, it's more likely that if there is any man-made element to Adam's Bridge, then it's by locals trying to hold back the rising sea to protect a route that already existed. I can see possible parallels between this and the stories of Cantre'r Gwaelod, and the possible origins of the various sarns along the West Wales coast.
 

Mythopoeika

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There was some interesting Hindu legend, and some thought-provoking ideas about whether mythical ape-men were actually early hominids, but the idea that a bridge was built by contemporaries of homo erectus over 1 million years ago seems a bit too far-fetched.

As you say, Rynner, it's more likely that if there is any man-made element to Adam's Bridge, then it's by locals trying to hold back the rising sea to protect a route that already existed. I can see possible parallels between this and the stories of Cantre'r Gwaelod, and the possible origins of the various sarns along the West Wales coast.
Yes, I think I'm with you on that. Natural formation, later constructed upon to keep it usable as a land bridge.
 

rynner2

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This book review covers a wide range of subjects, but I guess it fits here as well as anywhere else:
The Making of the British Landscape by Nicholas Crane review – how the sun shaped the land
This magnificent book, ranging from the ice age to the present, considers the influence on the countryside and cities of climate, geology and a long history of immigration
Andrea Wulf
Friday 30 September 2016 14.00 BST

Around 12,000 years ago Britain was still connected to the mainland of Europe. Glaciers covered much of the north while the south was an arid wind-blasted tundra with grasses, mosses and low shrubs. Around 9700 BC, it became a little warmer, and that’s where Nicholas Crane’s story begins. As he argues in this ambitious, magnificent book, Britain’s destiny was shaped to a surprising degree by the sun and by southerners. It’s a tale of stops and starts – devastating at times, uplifting at others.

As temperatures rose, the ice melted, greenhouse gases surged and Britain became greener. Crane, an explorer and geographer, writes evocatively about this changing landscape. “Relieved of its burden, the Earth’s crust sprang slowly upward in the far north,” while the coastline of the south was reconfigured by rising sea levels. River courses altered, trees grew taller and animals such as deer and boars arrived.

With them came the woodland people who, unlike the early hunters, lived in large groups and stayed for a while in one place. They brought tools and made flames with wooden fire drills. Britain’s geology provided them with a vast array of stones, which in turn produced a new sound: “a rhythmic knocking accompanied by high-pitched tinkling” – the sound of the woodland people fashioning them into tools and objects. Meanwhile Doggerland, the area that connected Britain to the continent, was facing the onslaught of rising seas; its inhabitants marched west to escape. Britain has always been a land of migrants.

The first “little ice age” hit around 6700BC. About 500 years later, a huge North American lake broke through its dam and dumped such a huge amount of fresh water into the Atlantic that the Gulf Stream shut down. Temperatures plummeted, trees died, sea water pushed into rivers and Britain’s landscape changed again. Only 200 years later – a geological blink – a tsunami crashed over Doggerland. Britain became an island and isolated. Two thousand years later it was nearly inhabited, and then the climate changed again. The next wave of immigrants arrived – the “house people”, who crossed the channel in their boats and built the first rectangular houses.

They bred animals, grew grains, cleared forests and sculpted the land, leaving traces of human activity on the landscape. Crane describes growing populations, Stonehenge and new materials – copper, iron, bronze. “Technology ages landscapes,” he writes, as ore was hacked out of the land and enormous numbers of trees were used for smelting. By 1000 BC, more of the south of Britain was patterned by rectangular fields – in Dartmeet, for example, a grid covered 3,000 hectares. Then another little ice age hit. Then it got warmer again. And so it goes, up and down. Forts were built, and later lowland settlements, goods arrived by ship, and raw materials left the island.

When the Roman emperor Claudius invaded Britain in AD43, he came, Crane says, with “an army of psychopathic builders” and the British landscape was soon altered beyond recognition. Camps and towns were built along gridded streets. Trees were felled, turf was cut, ditches dug and streams diverted to lace the island with roads. Within four generations, Britain had 24 major cities, palaces, amphitheatres, mosaic flooring and hot baths. It was warm and the soil produced food. And then the climate changed once more.

Crane is excellent at describing climate, geology and shifting shorelines, but is at his best when plaiting together earth-shaping events with humankind and civilisation. [To TV viewers Crane is probably best known as one of the presenters of BBC's "Coast" - the one with the umbrella stuck in his ricksack!] The end of the Romans in Britain, for example, was linked to a 40-year drought in inner Asia, which started in 338 and pushed the nomadic Huns westwards, who in turn drove the Goths into the Roman empire. With their hands full on the continent, the Romans had problems defending Britain and trade routes were affected. Britain was attacked, looted and robbed. Taxes were raised, which meant people couldn’t afford goods any more, and production slowed: “life leeched from British towns”. By 407, the Romans had left and an air of disrepair veiled the south.

Crane takes his readers from the farmed countryside and the urban boom of the Norman conquest to the freeze in the early 1300s, which was rapidly followed by rains and famines – and then the first wave of the Black Death in 1348 (after which came several more). As the population fell from 6 million in 1300 to 2.4 million in the 1440s, the landscape changed again: villages were abandoned and fields left unploughed.

etc...

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/30/making-of-british-landscape-nicholas-crane-review

And you can buy a copy cheap through the Guardian Bookshop!
 

rynner2

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This is interesting from a geological point of view, but the thread title is 'Flooded Kingdoms', and unless there's any evidence for human occupation on these submerged bits of continent it doesn't seem right to call them Flooded Kingdoms.

Until we get evidence to the contrary, I'll take Flooded Kingdoms to refer to land submerged since the last Ice Age.
 
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CarlosTheDJ

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I just received an email from our MP, letting me know that the new flood defence system has been approved and will commence shortly.

So we won't be adding Newhaven to the list yet.
 

EnolaGaia

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Don't hold your breath ... :cool:

To the best of my knowledge, this whole 'Cuban Atlantis' storyline died over a decade ago. More details on the background to its demise can be found in this ATS (Above Top Secret) thread:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread374842

Here's a summary of my recollections from years past ...

There was supposedly a return expedition circa 2005 / 2006, but it found nothing noteworthy before technical problems with a submersible(?) caused its termination.

There also seemed to have been some wrangling with potential sponsors / publishers over funding levels and rights to any documented results, leading to the original discoverers (the Canadian survey folks) dropping the matter.

It didn't help that there were two pesky facts that apparently dampened potential funders' enthusiasm:

(1) The imagery purported to illustrate megalithic-style structures wasn't direct sonar output, but rather computer-generated images derived from sonar data (thus raising concerns the anomalies were artifacts of data processing rather than artifacts on the sea floor).

(2) The depth of the alleged structures was 'way too deep to be accounted for by anyone's estimates of sea level changes since the last Ice Age(s).
 

rynner2

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Penzance man left mesmerized after discovering petrified forest on West Cornwall beach
By Tom_Gainey | Posted: February 13, 2017

A West Cornwall man said he felt "privileged" to witness an "incredible" sight on a beach last week, after a recent spell of bad weather uncovered a petrified forest.
Peter Williams, 44, was walking his dog between Eastern Green beach and Long Rock last week after the severe weather had shifted the sand levels.
He walked at the water's edge at low tide, a far distance from his usual route, but was mesmerized by what he came across next.

"I noticed below me what looked like a large flat shiny rock", he said.
"It looked out of place & thought it was strange, when I stepped on it I was very surprised to feel that it was spongy.
"Upon closer inspection it seemed to be a [???]. I could not believe what I was seeing, the Ancient forest which once stood where Mounts Bay now exists.
"I was amazed as I had heard about this forest existing but never actually seen it."
Mr Williams looked around the vicinity and discovered that the whole area was littered with actual remains of a forest.
He found old branches set in the sand and even a tree stump.


Photo: Peter Williams

"I have lived in the area all of my 44 years and have never witnessed this before," he added.
"It was truly amazing and I felt privileged to be one of the few people to see this incredible sight.

"I understand that the forest was called 'The Forest of Lyonesse'".

Mr Williams added that he also read The Cornishman's article on the WW2 defences and lost French shipwreck - which were also uncovered nearby after sand levels shifted - with great interest.

http://www.cornwalllive.com/penzanc...ch-discovery/story-30132411-detail/story.html

Saturday's Full Moon created Spring Tides, when the Low waters are lower than average. That and the shifted sand levels mean the sunken forest does reappear to view from time to time.
 

rynner2

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I'm putting this in here as it does look at several major Floods:

timewatch-guide-series-4-1-decoding-disaster

From earthquakes to tsunamis to volcanic eruptions, natural disasters are both terrifying and fascinating - providing endless fresh material for documentary makers. But how well do disaster documentaries keep pace with the scientific theories that advance every day? To try and answer that question, Professor Danielle George is plunging into five decades of BBC archive. What she uncovers provides an extraordinary insight into one of the fastest moving branches of knowledge. From the legendary loss of Atlantis to the eruption that destroyed Pompeii, Danielle reveals how film-makers have changed their approach again and again in the light of new scientific theories. While we rarely associate Britain with major natural disaster, at the end of the programme Danielle brings us close to home, exploring programmes which suggest that 400 years ago Britain was hit by a tidal wave that killed hundreds of people, and that an even bigger tsunami could threaten us again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08xxsw5/a-timewatch-guide-series-4-1-decoding-disaster

First shown: 9pm 13 Jul 2017: 60 mins
 

rynner2

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Whilst I see it alluded to in a couple of older posts one flooded kingdom not to have been directly mentioned in this thread is that of the Welsh legendary city of Cantref (or Cantre'r) Gwaelod.

A City which purportedly sat several miles off the cost of Aberystwyth, and a kingdom which would have covered a significant part of modern day Cardigan Bay.

I say purportedly, because very little has ever been found to support the claim that this kingdom actually existed. Some older texts refer to there being evidence of sunken remains of human habitations visible in the 1700s. There is no evidence of it today.

The earliest mention of the kingdom is in the Black Book of Camarthen, which is for the most part an (incomplete now through pages lost across the centuries) book of triads, folklore and poetry.

As a Student at Aberystwyth I always found the notion that there might yet be some kind of Welsh Atlantis somewhere out to sea to be quite an entertaining one. Supposedly Cantref Gwaelod was the kingdom of King Gwyddno Long-Shanks (or occasionally Gwyddno Cornaur - Golden-Crown) who lived in the early to mid-6th century. The kingdom supposedly created by a large sea dyke, which
 

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EnolaGaia

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The aforementioned plans to explore the Doggerland area are finally being realized ...
Thriving Plateau Region That Slipped Beneath North Sea 8,000 Years Ago Reveals Its Secrets
A vast plateau of land between England and the Netherlands was once full of life before it sank beneath what is now the North Sea some 8,000 years ago. Archaeologists now hope to find out what the vast landscape looked like before it slipped beneath the salty water so long ago.

To do this, they've hauled up cores of sediment from the bottom of the North Sea in an area called Doggerland. It's named for the shoal called Dogger Bank in the southern part of the North Sea ...
FULL STORY: https://www.livescience.com/64214-drowned-landscape-north-sea-doggerland.html
 

EnolaGaia

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Lost city of Heracleion gives up its secrets
A lost ancient Egyptian city submerged beneath the sea 1,200 years ago is starting to reveal what life was like in the legendary port of Thonis-Heracleion. ...
Explorations of Heracleion continue, and they continue to turn up new items of interest ...
Divers Find Remains of Ancient Temple in Sunken Egyptian City

Divers swimming through Heracleion, an ancient Egyptian city that's now under water, have discovered a trove of artifacts, including the remains of a temple, gold jewelry, coins and the missing piece of a ceremonial boat, according to Egypt's Ministry of Antiquities.

Heracleion — named after the legendary Hercules, who ancient people believed actually visited the city — was a bustling metropolis in its day. When it was built in about the eighth century B.C., it sat on the edge of the Nile River, next to the Mediterranean Sea. Cleopatra was even crowned in one of its temples. Then, about 1,500 years ago, it flooded, and now sits under about 150 feet (45 meters) of water.

Ever since archaeologists discovered it in 2000, Heracleion (also known as Thonis) has slowly revealed its ancient secrets. During the latest two-month excavation, archaeologists were delighted to find the remains of a large temple, including its stone columns, and the crumbling remnants of a small Greek temple, which was buried under 3 feet (1 m) of sediment on the seafloor, the ministry reported. ...
FULL STORY: https://www.livescience.com/66045-underwater-ancient-egypt-city-temple.html
 
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Hasankeyf is thought to be one of the oldest continuously inhabited settlements on Earth, dating as far back as 12,000 years and containing thousands of caves, churches and tombs.
But this jewel of human history will soon be lost; most of the settlement is about to be flooded as part of the highly controversial Ilisu dam project.
Construction work on the dam and its hydroelectric power plant started in 2006 and Hasankeyf is now just weeks away from destruction, despite a fight by residents and environmental campaigners to save it. The Turkish government has given residents until 8 October to evacuate.


https://www.theguardian.com/cities/...res-to-flood-12000-year-old-city-to-build-dam
 
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