Forgotten History

AgProv

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Oh why are we so not surprised?

All utopias are unpleasant. Yet, maybe we should strive towards them.

(Does that even make sense?)
It's in human nature to, I think. The kicker is - everybody would have a different idea as to what constitutes "utopia" and one person's conception of utopia would be somebody else's dystopia - inevitable. And if one person is alpha enough to try to make their personal utopia work, with the assistance of others who buy into it, then a lot of other people end up on the receiving end - you end up with Pol Pot, Hitler, Branch Davidianism, the Worldwide Church of God.... and in this case, Juche.

Of course there's Swift's dictum, or perhaps it was Voltaire, that for every proposed Utopia, you have to measure this against the general inability of most of the human race to manage something as relatively simple as a chicken run.

One thing that's come out of even a cursory investigation of available material on North Korea is that it isn't as black-and-white as that. Something that has come out in my online viewing is that where objective outside observers have been able to get access to ordinary Koreans, people do still laugh, and dance, and live the best lives they possibly can. This does not appear to be stage-managed (although you can never be certain). I'm prepared to buy into Pyongyang, the capital, being a sort of "privilege zone" where people are not generally worked to death, where nobody starves (but only one person manages to get obese), where the standard of available housing seems to be on a par with, perhaps, East Germany as was (the most successful Soviet Bloc state), and available food and clothing is adequate-verging-on-good by Western standards. The "social compact" of communism appears to be working here - do not make waves or oppose the State and you will be looked after, cradle to grave. Even the candid unauthorised film material seems to show people here who genuinely do appear happy with their lot; it would be really hard for the State to force people to fake that degree of what could be called contentment, and for them to fake it all the time - especially when the people being filmed seem genuinely unaware of the hidden cameras. And this is really at odds with the received wisdom in the West, it has to be said. Even if you view the KFA as a bunch of idealistic dreamers at odds with reality - you still get the impression that we are not being told or shown everything about NK and the bits that do not fit the narrative are being edited out.

Not that I'd want to live there, and equally clandestine undercover fiming outside Pyongyang suggests a grimmer, more horrible, reality outside the "Potemkin village" of Pyongyang. But what you see of North Korea has a sort of stark aesthetic attractiveness to it; paradoxically, I got a sense of physical space and physical open-ness about it. In some respects, it is an extraordinarily beautiful landscape.

And... will the selective editing going on today become the history we are taught tomorrow - with the things which are carefully edited from the narrative now becoming the "forgotten history" of tomorrow, leading to a researcher discovering forgotten archive video of genuinely happy North Koreans, and having a "wtf!" moment at seeing something utterly at odds with the accepted doctrine?
 
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JamesWhitehead

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Ireland was once a tobacco-producing country!

The hybrid plants appear to have been used as a "base" for blends, so their European origin was not much advertised.

Most of this documentary is given over to Ireland's oldest tobacconists, Cahill's. The owner is a mine of information and a most eloquent speaker on the pernicious weed. She has diversified into tea-blending. They find a young pipe-enthusiast, who seems to have drifted in from another age - though the video seems to date from 2020! :pipe:
 
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Naughty_Felid

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Ireland was once a tobacco-producing country!

The hybrid plants appear to have been used as a "base" for blends, so the European origin was not much advertised.

Most of this documentary is given over to Ireland's oldest tobacconists, Cahill's. The owner is a mine of information and a most eloquent speaker on the pernicious weed. She has diversified into tea-blending. They find a young pipe-enthusiast, who seems to have drifted in from another age - though the video seems to date from 2020! :pipe:
Tea leaves are also linked with nicotine these days.
https://medicine.uq.edu.au/article/2018/08/prisoners-smoke-nicotine-infused-tea-leaves#:~:text=Following a ban on tobacco,lozenges mixed with tea leaves.&text=Around 74% of prisoners entering the system are smokers.
 

ramonmercado

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A bitter sweet tale.

An Indian student won acclaim in Wales as a bard and became the first woman to get a law degree from University College London. And although racial prejudice brought a heartbreaking end to a three-year relationship she never went home, writes Andrew Whitehead.

Dorothy Bonarjee was Indian by birth, English by upbringing, French by marriage - and Welsh at heart. To put it another way, she was the perpetual outsider, sometimes by chance, and at other times by choice. Even the moment of her greatest achievement in 1914 - winning one of Wales's most prestigious cultural prizes while still a teenager - is notable above all because she was so obviously not Welsh.

In India, Dorothy Bonarjee and her family stood apart, by class, culture and religion. They were upper-caste Bengali brahmins, but Dorothy spent her childhood living a simple life on the family estate hundreds of miles away from Bengal in Rampur, near India's border with Nepal. They were also Christians - her grandfather served as a Scottish pastor in Calcutta (now Kolkata) after being converted by celebrated Scottish missionary Alexander Duff.

Dorothy's life changed utterly in 1904 when - along with her brothers, Bertie and Neil - she was sent to London for her schooling. She was just 10 years old. Dorothy's parents - both of whom had spent time in Britain - wanted their children to be, like them, part of the "England returned" who were increasingly running India on behalf of the imperial power. ...

https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-55430717
 

Stormkhan

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Roman Oratorical Gestures
Roman Oratorical Gestures - YouTube
Note: this guy looks funny in that costume and American accent but he's really good. Here's his longer lecture on Cicero:
Cicero and the Secrets of Persuasive Oratory - YouTube
Thing is, with the advent of the internet, online lectures and You Tube videos, there's a really big (and interesting) 'thing' about hand gestures while lecturing going on now. Linked, by psychology and subconscious 'body language', I find it fascinating!
 

uair01

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Why did so many Germans support Hitler?
by Tyler Cowen March 30, 2005 at 7:47 am in
A well-respected German historian has a radical new theory to explain a nagging question: Why did average Germans so heartily support the Nazis and Third Reich? Hitler, says Goetz Aly, was a "feel good dictator," a leader who not only made Germans feel important, but also made sure they were well cared-for by the state.
Why did so many Germans support Hitler? - Marginal REVOLUTION
 

Mythopoeika

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It's quite simple, really. Hitler used large socialist public projects, such as motorway construction and the creation of Volkswagen, to revive the German economy. It was a success. If only they'd stopped there and allowed the people to enjoy their new-found affluence.
 

Carl Grove

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It's quite simple, really. Hitler used large socialist public projects, such as motorway construction and the creation of Volkswagen, to revive the German economy. It was a success. If only they'd stopped there and allowed the people to enjoy their new-found affluence.
There's no doubt that Hitler's "national socialism" was genuine in the sense that fair-haired Aryan Germans were given a lot of perks by the State, but having got their support he was then able to begin his campaign of conquest. Whether he had that planned out from the beginning, and whether he had thought he could do it without opposition from Britain and other major powers, is the question. In Speer's book he mentions Hitler referring to the war with Britain as "this mess," as though it really hadn't occurred to him that he would be challenged over his actions.
 

feinman

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Thing is, with the advent of the internet, online lectures and You Tube videos, there's a really big (and interesting) 'thing' about hand gestures while lecturing going on now. Linked, by psychology and subconscious 'body language', I find it fascinating!

And Ninjas and esoteric Buddhism:


And the most common gesture I see often these days:
It's not the "OK" symbol; it's used by Obama and others as if invisible darts are being thrown each tome a point is being made --or a deadly magic dart is being tossed at the opponent..
 

Beresford

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The effects of the Wall Street crash can't be ignored either. Immediately prior to that Germany had made a good recovery from the First World War and the hyperinflation of the early twenties (where ordinary people suffered but the government was able to pay reparations with almost worthless currency). All of a sudden there was another economic shock. The Nazis were very good at capitalising on such situations, as we all know. Even then they struggled in some of the elections in the early thirties, they only ended up in power thanks to some silly people who thought they could control Hitler.
 

Mythopoeika

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Whether he had that planned out from the beginning, and whether he had thought he could do it without opposition from Britain and other major powers, is the question. In Speer's book he mentions Hitler referring to the war with Britain as "this mess," as though it really hadn't occurred to him that he would be challenged over his actions.
I don't think Hitler wanted Germany to go into a head-to-head clash with Britain, or he avoided thinking about it altogether. He really did think that he could invade Europe without Britain doing something. A touch of naivete, perhaps.
 

uair01

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Today, 500 years ago, Pope Leo X excommunicated Luther and all his followers. This papal ban has never been retracted. Also the Lutherans proclaimed the pope to be the Antichrist. This has also never been retracted. Time to do it this year?

Also: there'll be a big party in Worms to celebrate the start of the reformation. Quite a nice little town, Worms.

https://amp.dw.com/de/500-jahre-lut...-ökumene/a-56086454?__twitter_impression=true
 

Cochise

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There's no doubt that Hitler's "national socialism" was genuine in the sense that fair-haired Aryan Germans were given a lot of perks by the State, but having got their support he was then able to begin his campaign of conquest. Whether he had that planned out from the beginning, and whether he had thought he could do it without opposition from Britain and other major powers, is the question. In Speer's book he mentions Hitler referring to the war with Britain as "this mess," as though it really hadn't occurred to him that he would be challenged over his actions.
Have been recently reading a book on the German navy in WW2 and the man in charge, Raeder, was assured by Hitler that war with the UK would not happen before 1945 at the earliest - Hitler was sure we wouldn't declare war over Poland. And the evidence is that he really didn't want a war with the UK, he was seeking some sort of naval treaty to allow a respectable sized navy for the Germans. Even after Dunkirk Hitler was hoping we'd sue for peace. At the same time planning to invade us.

The trouble with analysing Hitler, certainly after 1939, is that he basically trusted no-one and all his long term plans stayed pretty much in his head until he gave the orders.
 

ramonmercado

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Today, 500 years ago, Pope Leo X excommunicated Luther and all his followers. This papal ban has never been retracted. Also the Lutherans proclaimed the pope to be the Antichrist. This has also never been retracted. Time to do it this year?

Also: there'll be a big party in Worms to celebrate the start of the reformation. Quite a nice little town, Worms.

https://amp.dw.com/de/500-jahre-luther-bann-neuer-anlauf-der-ökumene/a-56086454?__twitter_impression=true
When I was a kid I thought that Luther's opposition to the Diet of Worms was actually a refusal to eat worms!
 

Frideswide

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An Indian student won acclaim in Wales as a bard and became the first woman to get a law degree from University College London. And although racial prejudice brought a heartbreaking end to a three-year relationship she never went home, writes Andrew Whitehead.
Reading through @ramonmercado 's post I discover that Dorothy Bonarjee married french painter Paul Surtel. I own one of his paintings. Now returning you to your normal programming! :)
 

Swifty

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Simone Segouin mostly known by her codename Nicole Minet was only 18-years-old when the Germans invaded. Her first act of rebellion was to steal a bicycle from a German military administration and to slice the tires of all of the other bikes and motorcycles so they couldn't pursue her. She found a pocket of the Resistance and joined the fight using the stolen bike to deliver messages between Resistance groups.
She was an extremely fast learner and quickly became an expert at tactics and explosives. She led teams of Resistance fighters to capture German troops, set traps and sabotaged German equipment. As the war dragged on her deeds escalated to derailing German trains, blocking roads, blowing up bridges and helping to create a German-free path to help the Allied forces retake France from the inside. She was never caught.
Segouin was present at the liberation of Chartres on August 23rd 1944 and then the liberation of Paris two days later. She was promoted to lieutenant and awarded several medals including the Croix de Guerre. After the war she studied medicine and became a paediatric nurse. She is still going strong and this October (2021) she will turn 96 :badge:

awarresist.jpg


'I was proud to march into Paris as Resistance fighter' says Simone Segouin - Soldiering On Awards
 
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Souleater

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It's quite simple, really. Hitler used large socialist public projects, such as motorway construction and the creation of Volkswagen, to revive the German economy. It was a success. If only they'd stopped there and allowed the people to enjoy their new-found affluence.
Im pretty sure the peoples car or voljswagon was a ponzi scam at the time and nobody who paid up front for one actyally got one, they were first mass produce by the british army operating the volkswagon factories, but i may have dreamed it
 

hunck

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Dead Drunk for Two Pennies: The Story of the London Gin Craze of 1720-1757

Some snippets:

The London Gin Craze lasted for over three decades and spanned, roughly, the years 1720-1757, though most historians today believe that the Gin Craze really began much earlier, sometime in the late 1690’s. In 1720, in an effort to essentially reduce Great Britain’s trade deficit when it came to liquor, Parliament passed legislation that made domestic spirit production both cheaper and less regulated than it had been before. This act of Parliament led to the proliferation of countless gin distilleries throughout Great Britain, particularly in and around the city of London.
The London Gin Craze of 1720-1757 was an epidemic of addiction and despair perhaps only rivaled in the annals of history by the crack-cocaine epidemic of the 1980’s which ravaged America’s inner-cities.

And just like crack, the masses of London’s poor in the 1700’s became hooked on drinking gin because it was cheap, stilled hunger pangs and produced a quick escape into oblivion.
Between 1720 and 1750 the death rate in London far outstripped the birth rate each and every year in an era prior to any effective contraceptives. Rampant alcoholism, which for the first time in history affected the female population in large numbers led to widespread prostitution, child neglect, starvation and even infertility.
Prior to the Industrial Revolution in the 19th century cloth, which had to be spun and woven by hand, was much more expensive than it is today, and therefore, the most valuable possession that most of London’s poor had was literally the clothes on their back. In order to obtain money to buy gin many of London’s destitute took to selling and pawning nearly all of their own clothing and this led to masses of mostly naked men and women stumbling drunk, or passed out on street corners, throughout the city’s poorer neighborhoods.
One such new and creative way to sell gin was something called the Puss & Mew Machine which was introduced by the Old Tom distillery of London around the year 1740. The Puss & Mew Machine was a sort of rudimentary manpowered vending machine. The Puss and Mew Machine was an iron cat mounted on a wall of the distillery building. A man would sit behind the iron cat and anyone wishing to purchase gin would hand a penny through the cat’s eye and then the man behind the cat would pour an ounce worth of gin through a spigot in the cat’s mouth. Of course, the Puss & Mew Machine was effective because it was part of the distillery itself and not, technically, a drinking establishment.

1610634176996.png
The Puss & Mew Machine still Outside the Old Tom Distillery Today

Finally, in 1751 another more effective Gin Act was passed by Parliament. This Third Gin Act essentially dictated that all merchants must obtain a liquor license to sell gin through the British government and that distillers could neither sell gin independently nor sell it to unlicensed merchants. Licences to sell gin were limited and prohibitively expensive, and since gin could only be gotten through what amounted to government run distilleries, the Third Gin Act of 1751 effectively eliminated the underground selling of penny gin and made it far less attainable for London’s poor.

Slowly, over the next several years in the 1750’s, beer and ale would once again supplant gin as the cheap alcoholic beverage of choice among the masses of London’s poor and the Gin Craze would gradually dissipate.
 

feinman

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Wow.. Forget Spuds Mackenzie, I'm all about the alcoholic cat now! :badge:
I could swear I've partied with that cat before! :p
 

David Plankton

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hand a penny through the cat’s eye and then the man behind the cat would pour an ounce worth of gin through a spigot in the cat’s mouth.
It looks more likely that the penny went in the cat's mouth and the gin came from the spout in its paw.








 

hunck

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Wilmington 1898: When white supremacists overthrew a US government

Following state elections in 1898, white supremacists moved into the US port of Wilmington, North Carolina, then the largest city in the state. They destroyed black-owned businesses, murdered black residents, and forced the elected local government - a coalition of white and black politicians - to resign en masse.

Historians have described it as the only coup in US history. Its ringleaders took power the same day as the insurrection and swiftly brought in laws to strip voting and civil rights from the state's black population. They faced no consequences.

Wilmington's story has been thrust into the spotlight after a violent mob assaulted the US Capitol on 6 January, seeking to stop the certification of November's presidential election result. More than 120 years after its insurrection, the city is still grappling with its violent past.
In this case, it was Democrats rather than Republicans who were the chief offenders in overt racism/white supremacy.

The day before the state-wide election in 1898, Democratic politician Alfred Moore Waddell gave a speech demanding that white men "do your duty" and look for black people voting.

And if you find one, he said, "tell him to leave the polls and if he refuses kill, shoot him down in his tracks. We shall win tomorrow if we have to do it with guns."
more at link.
 
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