Forgotten History

Kondoru

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Thats a very good article.

(says she who found Gravitys Rainbow unreadable).

But can anyone write about others experiences without taking them over? Do we have to stick to our own?
 

Mythopoeika

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Thats a very good article.

(says she who found Gravitys Rainbow unreadable).

But can anyone write about others experiences without taking them over? Do we have to stick to our own?
I have Gravity's Rainbow right here, next to me. Have had it a few years.
Haven't read it.
 

GNC

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Thats a very good article.

(says she who found Gravitys Rainbow unreadable).

But can anyone write about others experiences without taking them over? Do we have to stick to our own?

It is a good article, and I think the point is we've reached the stage where we should be helping out writers who would want to tell their own, local stories rather than make preferences for outsiders telling those stories instead. I suppose the danger is that then those stories become compartmentalised - there are too many people who would never think to read a book by an African author, but might tackle Pynchon. Don't ask me what the solution is! You can lead a horse to water...
 

Victory

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The Times has a feature on concentration camps on Alderney in World War Two.

It's behind a paywall and it's grim reading.

Arbitrary beatings, burnings, torture by the SS and other German guards.
A starvation diet and 12 hours days of forced labour with a small break for lunch - half a litre of cabbage soup.

Most victims French Jewish civilians, some Spanish civilians, or Russian, Ukrainian, Polish troops.

Number of deaths unknown, estimates are anything between 900 and 3000.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/exposed-the-nazi-horror-camp-on-british-soil-qq0qw70wx
 

Kondoru

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Does the Channel islands count as British Soil?
 

Mythopoeika

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Does the Channel islands count as British Soil?
No, but for some reason we have to defend them. Same as with the Isle of Man.
 

Kondoru

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Alderney is the nicest Channel Isle and the people are all too aware of its sad history.

(Ive known people from there but never had an opportunity to go)
 

Victory

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Souleater

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I dont know how widespread the knowledge of this is, i had certainly never heard of it.

Today marks the 100 year anniversary of the 'Tulsa Massacre' in which over 300 black Americans in an affluent area were killed and much of the area was burnt to the ground.

"The Tulsa race massacre took place May 31 and June 1, 1921, when mobs of White residents, many of them deputized and given weapons by city officials, attacked Black residents and businesses of the Greenwood District in Tulsa, Oklahoma, US.[10]Alternatively known as the Black Wall StreetMassacre, the Greenwood Massacre, the Tulsa Massacre, the Tulsa pogrom, or the Tulsa race riot,[11][12][13][14][15][16] it marks one of "the single worst incident(s) of racial violence in American history".[17] The attack, carried out on the ground and from private aircraft, destroyed more than 35 square blocks of the district – at that time the wealthiest Black community in the United States, known as "Black Wall Street".[18]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre
 
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staticgirl

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I only know about the Tulsa Massacre because it was dramatised in the tv series sequel to the Watchmen and also the horror series Lovecraft County. When I watched the Tulsa Massacre episode of the Watchmen, I had to go online and find out if it was real. I was absolutely shocked to find out that even the biplane strafing the citizens as they fled was all real. I had never heard of it before and wondered why?
 

CALGACUS03

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I only heard about the Tulsa massacre from a poster on here (it might have been somewhere within this very thread). When I Googled it I was shocked that it there wasn't greater awareness of it. :(
 
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GNC

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I only heard about the Tulsa Massacre from Watchmen on TV too - you can bet President Biden apologised for it this week because of that show, because if it hadn't opened with a representation of it, it would not be in the public consciousness a hundred years later.
 

EnolaGaia

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I learned about it back in the Sixties and Seventies during the period when racism and racial injustice were prominent issues in the American scene. Since then the incident (like other similar riots, the Tuskegee syphilis study, southern lynchings, etc.) faded from the spotlight and hence from public consciousness.
 

GNC

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I learned about it back in the Sixties and Seventies during the period when racism and racial injustice were prominent issues in the American scene. Since then the incident (like other similar riots, the Tuskegee syphilis study, southern lynchings, etc.) faded from the spotlight and hence from public consciousness.

I suppose a UK equivalent would be mentions of the Chinese opium scandal of the 1800s over here, which seems to be gaining traction recently.
 

GNC

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Or the 'Peterloo massacre' which got quite a bit of publicity recently

That's because Mike Leigh made a film about it. These bits of scandalous history wax and wane, and let's face it, it's a rare nation that doesn't have shame in its past. Doesn't excuse it, but the way it keeps on happening never seems to change us, more's the pity.
 

staticgirl

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It's good that film and tv drama creators keep retelling the stories so that we never forget
 

staticgirl

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I don't think there's much chance of forgetting blasted Henry and his wives they're on tv every five minutes. I am rather sick of them.

But yeah, I know what you mean. That new drama looks like they are trying out something different.
 

Souleater

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I don't think there's much chance of forgetting blasted Henry and his wives they're on tv every five minutes. I am rather sick of them.

But yeah, I know what you mean. That new drama looks like they are trying out something different.
Is it like the 'blaxpliotation' films of the 70's?
 

marhawkman

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That's because Mike Leigh made a film about it. These bits of scandalous history wax and wane, and let's face it, it's a rare nation that doesn't have shame in its past. Doesn't excuse it, but the way it keeps on happening never seems to change us, more's the pity.
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it?
 

Junopsis

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Some places are at least making a point of highlighting that terrible things happened there. It's not much, but it's something.
What happened in central FL is that the Klan said "no, we're not letting any black people vote. You're on the rolls? No, you aren't", and poll-watched with guns. A black guy showed up armed to attempt to exercise said rights, and so they killed him and promptly massacred/burned down the houses of all the black people in the town.
The period newspaper article, however, said "we call that committing suicide in these parts". The town made a day recently to remember the massacre victims.
It bothers me how proud some Americans are about denying that there's anything wrong with this or that it has effects or is worth knowing. We're not at all based on actually representing the constituency.
 

Souleater

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Not sure if this fits here, feel free to relocate if there is s more suitable thread.

The repatriation of the remains (a single tooth) of Congoese independace hero Patrice Lumumba, has been delayed by covid.

"The return of the remains of Congolese independence hero Patrice Lumumba has been delayed by a new wave of Covid-19.

Tributes had been planned from 21 June, starting with the return of what are believed to be his only remains - a tooth - from Belgium.

"We have to prioritise the health of our compatriots," President Félix Tshisekedi said.

He said the country's hospitals were full and both cases and deaths were rising "exponentially"."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-57459055
 

Krepostnoi

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I'm really feeling our impending departure. Saigon has been good to us, mostly, and it is breaking my heart as I run around on the final errands before we depart, knowing that it is going to be a long time before I get to ride or walk these streets again. Here's a picture that sums up the place for me - older, more decrepit architecture slap-bang alongside modern shopping malls. I didn't take this by accident, though. There's a particular resonance to me at the moment.

Vincom 1 downsize.jpg

It's not exactly forgotten history, although the paean to Capitalism right next door in a way suggests that it is. But you'll know it when you see it. Let's zoom in.

Vincom 2 downsize.jpg

It's impossible to get the same angle that it's famous from, given the redevelopment since*. I managed to get a slightly different view, here:

vincom 3 downsize.jpg

I've always found the American War to be a very reductive prism through which to view this country. I got dragged off to the Cu Chi tunnels by my father-in-law, but it's a very sanitised experience these days: the tunnels are replicas, but upsized to fit Western frames. We never did go to the War Remnants museum, But these past few days, the idea of catching one of the last flights out of Saigon, under miserable circumstances, has set certain resonances in motion. Now do you recognise the building?
LastHeli.jpg

*ETA: actually, you almost certainly can replicate the view from within the glossy shopping mall, provided there are windows facing out that way. But the resonance didn't hit before, so it never occurred to me to try, and now Saigon is under strict lockdown, so the malls are shut. You can tell by looking at the empty roads. This is downtown Saigon, and in normal times you can't get a fag paper between the motorbikes.
 
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