• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

Fortean Poland?

A

Anonymous

Guest
Well, this time they're shipping my tired bones off to Warsaw for a week. As usual, I will have a few days of free time to look around and take in some local lore. Any sites/stories that the FT crowd thinks I should check out there?

For the geographically challenged (you know who you are :p): http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/pl.html.

Thanks in advance.

Stilton
 
Hmm, let's see... There are quite a few UFO reports from Poland, plus there was once a weeping statue of the Madonna at Lublin Cathedral, and there's supposed to be a 20-foot long monster with 'rabbit like' ears in Lake Zeegrzynski.
 
Close Encounters

14 January 2004

Wylatowo, a small village halfway between Poznañ and Toruñ, was virtually unknown until a few years ago. Recently there have been crowds of curious tourists and UFO enthusiasts flocking there to see the crop circles.

Researchers from the Nautilus Foundation, along with Chairman Robert Bernatowicz, also visited the spot. They wanted to document the Wylatowo circles in the form of a book and a film.

First, there's a great silence. No trees whispering, no birds singing, even the air seems still while a thick fog forms above the ground. It is pitch dark. It all lasts a few minutes, during which the crops all of the sudden start "lying down" in the form of characteristic circles; then, everything comes back to life-this is how witnesses describe what could be seen this summer in the fields of Wylatowo, including the land of Tadeusz Zarywski and the Filipczak and Sucholas families.
Mysterious patterns in the Wylatowo
crops have been appearing for the last three years. They look like artistic figures, stalks of which are laid with great precision bearing no traces of human creation. Apart from pictograms, circles of light and strips of energy were spotted in the area as well, giving rise to talk of the Wylatowo Triangle and "the Polish Roswell."

"We believe that these pictograms were created by some supernatural force-we do not know whether physical or spiritual in nature and maybe we will never find out; but we can say for sure that these are not human beings," said Wojciech Bobilewicz of the Nautilus Foundation. A description of the pictograms can be found on the websites of the Wylatowo community, the Nautilus Foundation and the Polish UFO Center.

The Nautilus Foundation was founded in 2001. It became widely known after a series of programs on supernatural phenomena on Radio Zet. One of them presented the first ever crop circles spotted in Poland, which appeared in Pig¿a in 1999. From the very beginning, the foundation caused commotion, although as its members write on their website, they just want to "bring man closer to discovering the truth about himself and the surrounding world." The foundation has been investigating signs in Wylatowo from the beginning, but the scope of its activities is not limited to supernatural phenomena. It also organizes many events on the topic, such as the visit to Poland by science fiction writer Erich von Däniken and a series of meetings inspired by the UFO Festival in Roswell, New Mexico.

Theories concerning the origin of crop circles cover both natural phenomena and extraterrestrial ones. They range from ideas about traces following a visit by a UFO to the effects of a mysterious geophysical energy. Crop circles have been appearing for centuries and can be found in the United States, Great Britain, Germany, Canada and other countries
Many theories have also arisen on the origin of the Wylatowo pictograms. Some say that Wylatowo was the place of a cult even during pagan times and that the first Christian temples were later created there. Others see it simply as a form of clever marketing by local farmers who wanted to make money selling pictures on their fields. Bobilewicz addresses these accusations, saying that specialists from the Nautilus Foundation have been working in Wylatowo nonstop for the past few months and have seen no signs of mysticism. The pictograms are too big and appear too irregularly to be formed by a human hand, he says.

There are also those who see these pictograms as signs from God. And those who claim that the pictograms are closely connected to the mystery of Roswell, a small American town which allegedly witnessed alien landings years ago. In the meantime, hundreds of tourists and scientists have been flocking to Wylatowo to see it with their own eyes. Among them was a group of Japanese experts who wanted to find out whether the area had been irradiated; their reports were inconclusive.

In July, a team of experts from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology also visited the spot. The BLT Research Team headed by Nancy Talbott conducted experiments using the latest technology, including motion-sensitive infrared cameras. Talbott is a famous expert in investigating crop circles worldwide. After her two-week stay in Wylatowo, she concluded that the pictograms that appeared there in June and July were authentic, although she stressed that additional expertise was necessary.

Apart from the scientific aspect of this phenomenon, there is also a commercial side. There are those seeking to profit from the Wylatowo pictograms. For one, there are the farmers selling pictures of pictograms in their fields that have been appearing in the media throughout the past summer.

But the real driving force behind the commotion is the Nautilus Foundation, which has been monitoring the area, taking pictures and recording eye-witness testimonies. Bernatowicz is preparing a book on the Wylatowo pictograms, Bobilewicz said. "We would also like to publish it in the United States, Western Europe and Japan so that word about Wylatowo can spread all over the world," he added. Meanwhile, one can read on the foundation's website that the story of the small village of Wylatowo will be the basis for a screenplay and that the foundation has already contacted.

Danuta Szafraniec

Edited to add: A haunting from World War II
 
The Polish people are friendly in my experience.

Also, the food is simple but hearty.

Google for the Chapel of Skulls.
 
I really loved Poland when I went in March, it's fantastic.
The people are kind and helpful and the food is marvelous.

We stayed in Krakow which is full of Fortean delights. 2 hours from Warsaw on the train. Fully recommended. A quick google will give you a lovely site about it, written by a wildly enthusiastic local.

Warsaw was great too, but it's a lot more modern and European than Krakow, which is tiny and mediaeval in contrast.
 
Originally posted by escargot We stayed in Krakow which is full of Fortean delights. 2 hours from Warsaw on the train.
And unlike in Merrie England two hours actually means two hours 99% of the time.

Trains are pretty cheap and damned relaible.
 
Last edited:
Thank you all for your responses. I have now carved a day out of my schedule to hop the train to Krakow. If I come across anything new, or even marginally Fortean, I'll post it on my return.

Stilton
 
escargot said:
You won't regret it! :)

Wasn't there some talk about writing up a certainly person's visit to Krakow to let us know about all the Fortean delights there? Naming no names of course ;)

Emps
 
My motherland!!!!

Damn, I hope I'm not too late. There's a great deal of scary stuff in Poland. If you're going to Krakow (I did a lot of growing up in Zakopane, which isn't too far from there...the mountains basically), there's heaps of stuff to take your fancy.

Aside from the cities dragon story and the trumpeter being shot by invading armies (on the radio in Poland at noon each day you'll hear a trumpet call that cuts off mid note....that's a story goes back to Krakow when it was invaded by the Turks and the trumpeter tried to alert the city folk by climbing the bell tower (of st mary's in the square) and got shot in the throat by an archer. well to this day a trumpeter goes up there and plays at mid day each day. Well aside from all that.... back in the 1500's Dr John Dee visited the city on his journey to Prague. He and kelly had a meeting with the angel gabriel and Dee started writing the book of enoch. Dee stayed near the University (a relative of mine works at the uni).

Local legends wise and alchemist related was Piotr Twardowski. Check him out because he used to summon demons and all that nonesense. He tried to trick the devil but ended up encarcerated on the moon. long story, but very interesting. A lot of poles speak english so you should find plenty of info when you're there. Just ask for Piotr Twardowski and tell them I sent you ;)

Kazimierz (the jewish quarter) is also worth a visit. If only to see the remnants of a great culture. outside krakow there's also the salt mines....You HAVE to go and see these. Salt caves built like palaces.
 
Yup Hook, and if you watch you can see the trumpeter, who pops in and out of the windows and will wave to tourists if they jump up and down enthusiastically enough!

And the salt mines, fantastic, I saw them on TV ages ago and was not disappointed with the real thing.

The food........mmmmmmmm.


Sneaks off to look at the few useable photos she took, and considers the article she was going to write.
 
Interim Report

OK, I'm on the ground in Warsaw now for three days. Old Town Warsaw is interesting. Nothing Fortean except in my own cursed hotel room. I absolutely cannot sleep in my room. (BTW, jet lag isn't an issue, never really affecting me.)

BG: I'm at the Holiday Inn in Central Warsaw, near the train station. (Employer's choice of hotel, not mine.) :)

The first night, I dream that I have woken up and there is someone in bed with me. There is a definite body shape under the sheets next to me. I try to pull the sheets off this thing, but it is gripping the sheets so hard I can't. It finally relents and reveals a shadowy grey body shape that quickly melts away as I watch. I wake up. I go back to sleep quickly, around 0215. About 0300, a voice in my left ear tells me to "get up." I wake to complete darkness, look around, and go back to sleep.

Night 2: I dream that someone is pulling at my right foot with constant pressure, but I cannot open my eyes to see who is doing it. As hard as I try, my eyes will not open. Whatever it is, it is pullling my foot with alot of force, as if trying to drag me out at the foot of the bed. This seems to go on for about 2-3 minutes, and I am more concerned that I can't pry my eyes open. I finally wake and turn on the light. It is 0217. Again (of course), nothing. My right foot hurts, though. Cannot go back to sleep. Get up and write for a couple of hours. Fall back to sleep around 0500.

OK, Nothing but a couple of weird dreams, both involving my otherwise comfortable bed. Oh yeah, and a typical hynagogic voice. Both dreams were very realistic, not "dreamlike." Upon waking, everything is the same as in the dreams, with the absence of something sleeping next to me or pulling my leg. ;) Whatever is racing through my mind, I wish it would just let me sleep.

I thought about changing rooms, but feel a little stupid explaining why. Some noise or some kind of disturbance is causing these dreams around the same time. This is definitely how haunted room stories get started. Well, better luck tonight.

I am still planning to take the train to Krakow on Thursday, but really need some sleep beforehand.

Sorry for the long, boring account, but at the moment, it's all I have. "Not much, Stilton," you say. I agree. :confused:

Stilton
 
Re: Interim Report

Stilton said:
BG: I'm at the Holiday Inn in Central Warsaw, near the train station. (Employer's choice of hotel, not mine.) :)

My nan used to live three or four blocks from there. The marriot used to have an orchestra playing in the lobby every day. I used to go and sit and watch them when I was a kid, then disappear off and annoy the Police (or Militia when I was a kid) at Central station.

You're not gonna find an awful lot of ghost stories I don't think, as they don't tend to be such a big deal over there. Not saying you won't bump into many ghosts of course. There are one or two linked to the warsaw uprising but I'm not sure where you'd find out about THAT sort of thing. I always felt that over in england the view of ghosts was quite romantic, but in Poland it was rather apathetic. But that's just my opinion. We used to live in Konstancin, which is some way out of town (thirty mins by car)... there were lots of cracking stories, but they were all local ones because the houses around there were really big old mansion houses, and those always have ghost stories. Lots of people in lakes, that sort of thing living by the by along side the living.

Are they still charging people to go up in the lift at the palace of culture?

Try and get a post card of the palace of culture by the way....most of them have the palace in the background with McDonalds in the foreground. Made me laugh anyway. Personally I think they should knock that building down...but hey.
 
Re: My motherland!!!!

Hook Innsmouth said:
Local legends wise and alchemist related was Piotr Twardowski. Check him out because he used to summon demons and all that nonesense. He tried to trick the devil but ended up encarcerated on the moon. long story, but very interesting. A lot of poles speak english so you should find plenty of info when you're there. Just ask for Piotr Twardowski and tell them I sent you ;)

He also used to ride around on a giant cock - er, rooster . . . one of my favourite stories . . . I actually just finished a black and white illustration of exactly that incident, Twardowski riding his giant rooster for a book a friend and I are doing about Polish tales of the devil.

If anyone wants to take a gander, just let me know . . .

-Fitz
 
yes please!

You know, I've been thinking of starting an "artistic forteans" thread to get people show their stuff on here. Good idea, bad idea? What do the mods think? Emps? I mean, we've got a "We like dogs" thread, a "we like cats" thread and a "members photo" thread where people attach all sorts of images to their posts...
 
I don't think there is a lot of Fortean stuff in Warsaw, there was the Miracle on the Vistula during the 1919/20 Polish/Soviet war. Basically the Red Army were at the city gates. The Soviets halted their advance which gave the Poles a chance to regroup and counter attack in a pincer movement. The Soviets were routed and almost completely destroyed thus saving Europe (for a few years at least) from being taken over by communism (Lenin had stated during the war that he wanted to 'water our horse's on the Rhine').

The Fortean point of the Miracle on the Vistula was that it is said that the BVM appeared in the sky above the battlefield and even caught Soviet hand grenades and lobbed them back at the Reds, so it's a sort of lesser known Angel of Mons thing.

Krakow is stuffed with Fortean things. It is said that there is an ancient Chakra stone underneath Wawel castle. It got there after the Lord Shiva cast 7 stones into the sky and where they landed would be blessed. I can't remember where the other 6 are although I know that one is supposedly in Jerusalem, one in Mecca and another somewhere in Slovakia.

Interestingly, no one knew about this until the start of the last century when there was an official visit from somewhere in the far east (sorry for sounding so vague, but I can't find my Legends of Krakow book!). Anyway, these diplomats (for the sake of argument) asked specifically to visit Wawel castle the reason being that they wanted to experience the power of the Chakra. To this day, if you go to Wawel castle, walk past the cathedral and under the arch into the old Italian style courtyard and look to the left you will most likely see a group of people stood up against the wall. These will be locals who pop up to Wawel once a week to take on some 'Chakra energy'. It is said that 5minutes stood in this spot will give you enough energy to get through the week.

Inside Wawel castle you will find a huge hall and in the ceiling you will find row upon row of stone heads. One of these has a gag around it's mouth. Apparently many years ago a man was being tried in the hall, he was found guilty and sentenced to death. As the sentence was read out someone started shouting out that the man was innocent. Yes you've guessed it, it was the stone head up in the ceiling.

Czestochowa is also worth checking out for the painting of the Black Madonna. It's actually a huge wooden carving supposedly carved by St Mark from the table of the last supper. When the Tartars invaded (again!) they ransacked the monastory and the carving was taken away as part of their loot. Outside, the horses were loaded up but they refused to move. Eventually the chief Tartar got pretty annoyed by this and in a fit of rage struck the carving twice with his sabre, leaving two cuts on the face of the Black Madonna. From these cuts blood started to run and terrified, the Tartars fled. Unfortunatly there is not much else in Czestochowa so I'd only go if your a devout Catholic or enroute to somewhere else.

Right, time to find that 'Legends of Krakow' book.
 
I didn't know any of those things!
I loved Krakow.

This site first got me going!
The golden crown was probably the single most jaw-dropping sight, though. Photos don't do it justice. :eek: Beautiful.
 
Hook Innsmouth said:
yes please!

You know, I've been thinking of starting an "artistic forteans" thread to get people show their stuff on here. Good idea, bad idea? What do the mods think? Emps? I mean, we've got a "We like dogs" thread, a "we like cats" thread and a "members photo" thread where people attach all sorts of images to their posts...

No need to ask it sounds like a great idea!!

Although I do seem to remember a thread a while back in there where people showed off their art.

Emps
 
Re: My motherland!!!!

Hook Innsmouth~ said:
Local legends wise and alchemist related was Piotr Twardowski. Check him out because he used to summon demons and all that nonesense. He tried to trick the devil but ended up encarcerated on the moon. long story, but very interesting.

Found:

Pan Twardowski
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Pan Twardowski was a mythical Polish sorcerer.

Pan Twardowski is pronounced: "pAn tfarr-DOFF-ski". Pan is a Polish honorific, roughly equivalent to the English Sir (see Polish name). Twardowski's forename is sometimes given as Jan (John).

Contents

* 1 Legend
* 2 Historical Twardowski
* 3 Pan Twardowski in literature, music and film
* 4 Places associated with Pan Twardowski

Legend

According to an old legend, Twardowski was a noble (szlachcic) who lived in Kraków in the 16th century. He sold his soul to the devil in exchange for great knowledge and magical powers. However, Twardowski wanted to outwit the devil by including a special clause in the contract, stating that the devil could only take Twardowski's soul to Hell during his visit to Rome – a place the sorcerer never intended to go to. Some variants of the story have little Twardowski sold to the devil by his father.

With the devil's aid, Twardowski quickly rose to wealth and fame, eventually becoming a courtier of King Sigismund Augustus who sought consolation in magic and astrology after the death of his wife, Barbara Radziwiłłówna. He was said to have called, by using a special magic mirror, a ghost of the late queen to comfort the grieving king. The sorcerer also wrote two books, both dictated to him by the devil – a book on magic and an encyclopedia.

After years of evading his fate, Twardowski was eventually abducted by the devil at an inn called Rzym (the Polish name for Rome). However, while being spirited away, Twardowski started to pray to the Virgin Mary who made the devil drop his victim midway to Hell. Twardowski fell on the Moon where he lives to this day. His only companion is his sidekick whom he once turned into a spider; from time to time Twardowski lets the spider descend to Earth hanging by a thread and then bring his master news from the world below.

Historical Twardowski

Some historians speculate that the legend was based on the life of a historical person. It has been suggested that Twardowski was in fact a German noble who was born in Nuremberg, and studied in Wittenberg before coming to Kraków. His real name might have been Laurentius Dhur in German or Durus in Latin; Twardowski would be then a Polonized version of the latter name (durus and twardy mean "hard" in Latin and Polish respectively).

Pan Twardowski in literature, music and film

The legend of Pan Twardowski inspired a great number of Polish, Ukrainian, Russian and German poets, novelists, composers, directors and other artists.

One of the best known literary works featuring Pan Twardowski is the humorous ballad Pani Twardowska by Adam Mickiewicz (1822). In this version of the story, Twardowski agrees to be taken to hell on the condition that the devil spends one year living with his wife, Pani (Lady) Twardowska. The devil, however, prefers to run away and thus Pan Twardowski is saved. Stanisław Moniuszko wrote music for the ballad in 1869.

Other works based on the legend include:

* Pan Tvardovsky, an opera by Alexy Verstovsky, libretto by Mikhail Zagoskin (1828);
* Mistrz Twardowski [Master Twardowski], a novel by Józef Ignacy Kraszewski (1840);
* Tvardovskiy, a ballad by Semen Gulak-Artemovskiy;
* Pan Twardowski, a ballet by Adolf Gustaw Sonnenfeld (1874);
* Mistrz Twardowski, a poem by Leopold Staff (1902);
* Pan Twardowski, a ballad by Lucjan Rydel (1906);
* Pan Twardowski, a ballet by Ludomir Różycki (1921);
* Pan Twardowski, a film by Wiktor Biegański (1921);
* Pan Twardowski, czarnoksiężnik polski [Pan Twardowski, the Polish sorcerer], a novel by Wacław Gąsiorowski (1930);
* Pan Twardowski, a film by Henryk Szaro, screenplay by Wacław Gąsiorowski (1936);
* Pan Twardowski oder Der Polnische Faust [Pan Twardowski or The Polish Faust], a novel by Matthias Werner Kruse (1981);
* Pan Twardowski, a film by Krzysztof Gradowski (1995).

Pan Twardowski is also a popular character in the folk art of the Kraków region. He may be found, for example, in some of the famous Cracovian cribs (szopki). He is typically depicted as a Polish noble either riding a rooster or standing on the Moon.

Places associated with Pan Twardowski

Pan Twardowski is said to have lived in or near Kraków, the capital of Poland at the time. Different places in Kraków claim to be the exact location of Twardowski's house. The sorcerer might have lived either somewhere in the city center, near the Rynek Główny or Ulica Grodzka, or across the River Vistula in the village of Krzemionki (now part of Kraków).

Across Poland, there are a number of inns and pubs called Rzym, all of which claim to be the one where Pan Twardowski met the devil.

In the sacristy of a church in Węgrów, hangs a polished metal plate claimed to be the magic mirror which once belonged to Pan Twardowski. According to a legend, it was possible to see future events reflected in the mirror until it was broken in 1812 by Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte of France when he saw in it his future retreat from Russia and collapse of his empire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Twardowski

Pan Twardowski calling a ghost of Barbara Radziwiłłówna for King Sigismund Augustus. Painting by Józef Simmler:

423px-Barbara_Radziwill_ZjawaBarbar.jpg
 
Poverty and inequality - long standing problems.

AUGUST 7, 2020 REPORT
6,600-year-old gravesites in Poland suggest wealth gap existed earlier than thought
by Bob Yirka , Phys.org

A team of researchers from Sweden, the U.S., Poland and the U.K. has found evidence that suggests the wealth gap in human communities goes back at least 6,600 years. In their paper published in the journal Antiquity, the group describes their study of skeletons in an ancient Polish graveyard and what they found.

The wealth gap is a term for describing disparities in income for people living in a shared community. Most countries in the world today have a wealth gap. In this new effort, the researchers have found evidence that suggests the wealth gap goes back even further than most historians have believed.

https://phys.org/news/2020-08-year-old-gravesites-poland-wealth-gap.html
 
Back
Top