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Archduke Franz Ferdinand's 'Cursed Car'

naitaka

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The car involved is supposed to be cursed:

From Snopes

"...General Potiorek became the next owner of the car. Several weeks into the war his armies suffered a rout at the hands of the ill-organised army of Serbia. The General was summoned back to Vienna by the Emperor Franz Josef I. And there in Vienna, his reputation ruined, his sanity destroyed, he died.

[Another version adds the detail of Potiorek becoming an impoverished lunatic who eventually died in the almshouse.]

A captain of Potiorek's staff took charge of the jinxed vehicle; nine days later in a terrible accident he killed two peasants on the road before swerving into a tree and killing himself.

After the war, the governor of newly independent Yugoslavia took charge of the car. He endured a succession of terrible accidents, one of which cost him his left arm. [Four accidents in four months, according to another source.] The car was then sold to a doctor, who was crushed to death when he overturned it into a ditch. [He had the car six months before it "turned" on him.] The next owner was Simon Mantharides, a diamond dealer. He fell to his death from a precipice. [The other version gives a slightly different sequence of events. According to it, the car passed from the crushed doctor to a wealthy unnamed jeweler who enjoyed it for all of a year before commiting suicide. Its next owner was yet another doctor, one whose patients deserted him out of fear for his cursed car.]

The car passed into the hands of a Swiss racing driver who was later killed in an accident in it. [Thrown over a stone wall to his death, says another source.] A Serbian farmer, who paid a fantastic sum for the car which had acquired great historical value, was the next owner and victim. He cadged a tow from a horse and cart one morning because the engine would not turn over. He forgot to switch off the ignition and the engine caught suddenly. The car lurched forward into the horse and cart, and overturned, killing the farmer.

Finally, a garage owner lost his life in the car returning from a wedding. He tried to overtake a long line of vehicles and was killed as the car spun out of control. [On his way to the wedding, says the other version. And the spin out killed both him and four of the six friends with him.]

The car now rests harmlessly in a Viennese museum. It is never taken out on the road."
 
I'm surprised that this fascinating tale has apparently not been mentioned here before.

This is the myth (?) that the automobile in which Archduke Franz Ferdinand and the Countess Sophie were assassinated in July, 1914, went through eight subsequent owners, all of whom went mad or were killed through the vehicle's Christine-like machinations.

Those putative owners:

1. Gen. Oskar Potiorek;

2. An unnamed captain on Potiorek's staff;

3. "The first goverrnor of Jugoslavia";

4. A physician named Srikis or Skirs - there are at least SEVENTEEN different spellings of this name in the Balkans;

5. Simon Mantharides, a diamond merchant - of whom I can find no independent mention;

6. An unnamed Swiss race car driver;

7. An unnamed Serbian farmer or "wealthy land owner";

8. A "garage owner" named Tiber Hirshfield.

Any additional documentation greatly appreciated.
 
Now, I thought I was going to read a news article about Franz Ferdinand the Band dieing in some horrible motorway accident. I came away disappointed.
 
H_James said:
Now, I thought I was going to read a news article about Franz Ferdinand the Band dieing in some horrible motorway accident. I came away disappointed.

think positive, it can still happen!
 
Yes. but who wil be the next Franz Ferdinand?

I have heard of the cursed car of Mr Ferdinand before, didn't realize the vehicle had so many owners. What about the last owner? After Franz? Was the car damaged during it's many 'ownership periods'

Third party premium and no claim bonus must be killers...

At a personal level I did own a cursed car for a brief period. A Holden Torana LJ model Had no end of trouble with it... Because of it.

:evil: thing, it was.
 
Franz Ferdniand was murdered because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. An earlier attempt on their lives had been made and his driver had managed to escape, but a wrong turn unfortunately lead them into the hands of Gavrilo Princip, his assassin and member of the Black Hand Gang, succeeding where he and some of his chums had failed earlier.

I'd say it was more to do with people not passing on messages (the driver took a short cut rather than the main road and wasn't told of the plans to stick to a main route) than the car itself, especially as the car had aided a speedy escape earlier in the day.
 
Was the car new when Franz Ferdinand was using it? Were there any previous careful owners?
 
sunsplash1 said:
I.... didn't realize the vehicle had so many owners.

It is of course the very authenticity of that list of supposed owners which has not been definitely established.

What about the last owner? After Franz?

It was was displayed in the Heereschichtliches Museum, Vienna. (I THINK that translates, roughly, as "Gentlemens' Museum.") But the legend thereafter forks again:

1. It is still there; or,

2. The "cursed car" was destroyed by a direct hit from a RAF aerial bomb in later 1940.

Was the car damaged during it's many 'ownership periods'

Yes, several times, but rebuilt or repaired each time. That is the one thing which serves to give a slight ring of truth to the legend - there seems to have been a general reduction of the political and social importance (and therefore I assume the wealth) of the owners as the story progresses, from Gen. Potiorek and "the first governor of Jugoslavia" down to a farmer and a garage owner.
 
Tyger_Lily said:
Franz Ferdniand was murdered because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Countess Sophie certainly was. Young Princip afterwards revealed that the shot which killed her was intended for Gen. Potiorek.
 
OldTimeRadio said:
It was was displayed in the Heereschichtliches Museum, Vienna. (I THINK that translates, roughly, as "Gentlemens' Museum.") But the legend thereafter forks again:

1. It is still there; or,

2. The "cursed car" was destroyed by a direct hit from a RAF aerial bomb in later 1940.

A quick Google found a picture here, and a few similar ones indicating that this is the car, still on display in Vienna. I remember reading many years ago about the 'curse' in one of those 70s kids' anthologies of real life spooky stories, complete with the "destroyed by bombing" ending. Looks like someone was making stuff up! (the other thing I remember from the book was a telling of the "Gloomy Sunday" curse, which had me terrified for years in case I heard the song by accident and suffered a horrible death!)

The only other famous cursed car I can think of is James Dean's Porsche - are there any more? What happened to the car Kennedy was assassinated in, for example, and did any tales manage to attach themselves to it?
 
johnnyboy1968 said:
Looks like someone was making stuff up!

They DO that in our field? <g>

(the other thing I remember from the book was a telling of the "Gloomy Sunday" curse, which had me terrified for years in case I heard the song by accident and suffered a horrible death!)

Yeah, it bothered me, too, until I actually tracked down and listened to Hal Kemp's and Artie Shaw's classic late 1930s recordings.

The only other famous cursed car I can think of is James Dean's Porsche....

The events surrounding Dean's Porsche "Spyder" (which he named "Little Bastard") seem fairly solid.

What happened to the car Kennedy was assassinated in, for example, and did any tales manage to attach themselves to it?

I don't know, but that's a really good question.
 
Might it be possible that when an individual suffers a mortal injury in an automobile crash, or worse yet is MURDERED in the vehicle, and he (she) dies totally consumed by rage at the unfairness of it all, that that rage sometimes enters into the fabric of the car, into its very molecular structue?

Skeptic [entering from stage left]: Alright, Mac, what's yer MECHANISM for that?

I think I'll go back to cutting out paper dollies now.
 
WhistlingJack said:

Mea culpa, but I had no idea of this. So the assassination automobile was utilized by four subsequent presidents over the following 14 years, without any major mishaps.

But anybody know if President Gerald Ford might have been using it during either or both of the two unsuccessful attempts against his life?
 
OldTimeRadio said:
WhistlingJack said:

Mea culpa, but I had no idea of this. So the assassination automobile was utilized by four subsequent presidents over the following 14 years, without any major mishaps.

But anybody know if President Gerald Ford might have been using it during either or both of the two unsuccessful attempts against his life?

I suppose he could have fallen out of it a couple of times.
 
Kondoru said:
They way Mr Dean drove, his death was a foregone conclusion.

I think the tales of Dean's recklnssness in driving have been severely exaggerated. And in the fatal crash, the other driver seems to have been much more at fault than Dean.
 
It's probably worth pointing out that professional racing car drivers tend to be among the safest and most cautious motorists on the public roads. They see far too much carnage in the course of their employment, involving other professionals, than to have any interest in playing highway leap-frog with "amateurs."
 
This 2013 article by Mike Dash for the Smithsonian provides a good overview of the Archduke's 'cursed' car, its history, and the way that history has been augmented and / or twisted to generate the 'curse' aspect.

Curses! Archduke Franz Ferdinand and His Astounding Death Car
Of all the tall tales that attached themselves to Franz Ferdinand after his death, however, the best known and most widely circulated concerns the car in which he was driven to his death. This vehicle—a Gräf and Stift double phaeton, built by the Gräf brothers of Vienna, who had been bicycle manufacturers only a few years earlier—had been made in 1910 and was owned not by the Austro-Hungarian state but by Count Franz von Harrach, “an officer of the Austrian army transport corps” who apparently lent it to the archduke for his day in Sarajevo. According to this legend, Von Harrach’s vehicle was so cursed by either its involvement in the awful events of June 1914 or, perhaps, its gaudy blood-red paint job that pretty much every subsequent owner met a hideous, Final Destination sort of end.

It’s sensible to point out, first, that the story of the cursed death car did not begin to make the rounds until decades after Franz Ferdinand’s death. It dates, so far as I have been able to establish, only to 1959, when it was popularized in Frank Edwards’s Stranger Than Science. This is not a terribly encouraging discovery. Edwards, a hack writer who wrote a series of sensational books recounting paranormal staples across one or two pages of purple prose, rarely offered his readers anything so persuasive as an actual source; he was prone to exaggeration and untroubled by outright invention. To make matters worse, Edwards wrote up the story of the jinxed Gräf & Stift at pretty much the same time that a very similar tale concerning James Dean’s cursed Porsche Spyder had begun to make the rounds in the United States. ...

FULL STORY: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/hist...dinand-and-his-astounding-death-car-27381052/
 
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