Fraudulent Psychics & Mediums

Mikefule

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Funny that I also investigated insurance fraud for decades and have exactly the opposite view to you of psychics as a result of my experiences over the years.:)

I divide them into 2 types: those who cynically and deliberately do something they absolutely know is dishonest, and those who mistakenly believe (or have at least convinced themselves) that they have real psychic abilities. We can debate where the line is drawn, but I think there is a difference.
 

PeteS

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I divide them into 2 types: those who cynically and deliberately do something they absolutely know is dishonest, and those who mistakenly believe (or have at least convinced themselves) that they have real psychic abilities. We can debate where the line is drawn, but I think there is a difference.
Yes sorry didn't phrase my post very well. What I meant was that no one will now be able to convince me that there are not some people out there who have absolutely genuine psychic abilities. Purely my experience over a period of several years interest in the subject. Each to his own view though:)
 

Mikefule

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Yes sorry didn't phrase my post very well. What I meant was that no one will now be able to convince me that there are not some people out there who have absolutely genuine psychic abilities. Purely my experience over a period of several years interest in the subject. Each to his own view though:)

I had misunderstood you. Sorry.

I personally do not believe in psychic abilities in the sense of psychics contacting the dead or finding the living.

I reserve judgement on whether some form of direct emotional communication between living people who are closely linked may be possible. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence, largely unverifiable, to suggest there may be something there. But contacting the dead, or locating a stranger who is missing? I'd need more than anecdotes to even start to consider things like that as a possibility.

This is based on my assessment of the probabilities, the lack of evidence that I would expect to have accumulated by now, and the lack of any theory of a mechanism by which it could happen. That is not to say I'm ruling it out; more "discounting the possibility".
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
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I had an encounter a few weeks ago that put me in mind of this thread ...

I was a few hundred miles from home, having just arrived at a house I'm working to clear out and sell. As I pulled in and parked my car I noticed someone had newly rented the house next door. There were a couple of young folks carrying boxes into this neighboring house and a pair of young men futzing around with a sizable sign structure in its front yard. That house had previously operated as a daycare center, and it was situated on a major thoroughfare.

I parked on the carport at 'my' house, and before I could go inside an odd little woman came over from next door. She was graying, chatty, bedecked in a bohemian motif, and she projected the general impression of a long countercultural lifestyle now in its latter stages. She introduced herself as the new occupant of the house next door.

She'd come over to advise me an individual had been and gone at 'my' house not long before I arrived. She told me this person was a young darker-haired man named Baldwin, they'd chatted a bit, and he'd expressed interest in the old lawnmowers sitting on the carport. She said the guy had declined to leave any contact info, but would swing back by the place later in the day.

I had no idea who that may have been. I thanked her, she went back home, and I started my work inside 'my' house.

Within an hour, a car pulled up. It carried two old friends I had expected - a couple visiting our hometown for the first time in the 7 years since their retirement to South America. I asked if they'd been there earlier and talked with a woman from next door, and they said yes. According to them:

- They'd both gotten out of the car, checked 'my' house to see if I was there, and chatted with the neighbor woman;
- Their name began with a 'B', but was nothing remotely similar to 'Baldwin';
- The male was older than I am (i.e., late 60's); and
- They hadn't discussed, nor even paid any attention to, the lawnmowers.

We were musing on how badly the woman had misremembered their encounter when I noticed the two young men once again futzing with the sign structure in the neighboring house's front yard. They unfurled a professionally-printed banner and attached it to the structure.

It read 'Psychic Readings' and invited customers to drop in (next door).

My expatriate friends and I had a hearty laugh and agreed our confidence in the psychic neighbor's talents had been severely undermined ...
 

Dr_Baltar

Left Foot of God
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I had an encounter a few weeks ago that put me in mind of this thread ...

I was a few hundred miles from home, having just arrived at a house I'm working to clear out and sell. As I pulled in and parked my car I noticed someone had newly rented the house next door. There were a couple of young folks carrying boxes into this neighboring house and a pair of young men futzing around with a sizable sign structure in its front yard. That house had previously operated as a daycare center, and it was situated on a major thoroughfare.

I parked on the carport at 'my' house, and before I could go inside an odd little woman came over from next door. She was graying, chatty, bedecked in a bohemian motif, and she projected the general impression of a long countercultural lifestyle now in its latter stages. She introduced herself as the new occupant of the house next door.

She'd come over to advise me an individual had been and gone at 'my' house not long before I arrived. She told me this person was a young darker-haired man named Baldwin, they'd chatted a bit, and he'd expressed interest in the old lawnmowers sitting on the carport. She said the guy had declined to leave any contact info, but would swing back by the place later in the day.

I had no idea who that may have been. I thanked her, she went back home, and I started my work inside 'my' house.

Within an hour, a car pulled up. It carried two old friends I had expected - a couple visiting our hometown for the first time in the 7 years since their retirement to South America. I asked if they'd been there earlier and talked with a woman from next door, and they said yes. According to them:

- They'd both gotten out of the car, checked 'my' house to see if I was there, and chatted with the neighbor woman;
- Their name began with a 'B', but was nothing remotely similar to 'Baldwin';
- The male was older than I am (i.e., late 60's); and
- They hadn't discussed, nor even paid any attention to, the lawnmowers.

We were musing on how badly the woman had misremembered their encounter when I noticed the two young men once again futzing with the sign structure in the neighboring house's front yard. They unfurled a professionally-printed banner and attached it to the structure.

It read 'Psychic Readings' and invited customers to drop in (next door).

My expatriate friends and I had a hearty laugh and agreed our confidence in the psychic neighbor's talents had been severely undermined ...

Perhaps Baldwin is yet to arrive. :pipe:
 

Georgek

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There are a lot of fraudsters in this game and it makes my life Hell.

They are out to get money and trick people to make money and I get the repercussion.

Many Psychics-Mediums are genuine including Derek Acorah and Stephen Fry.

You see..... the problem is that these guys have to perform at 100% ability at 100% of the time. It just cannot be done. I can't do it...nor can they.

You buy a ticket to their show and expect your moneys worth. So what happens.. do they.say that they are sorry as they cannot perform tonight?

You (too many 'you's) feed them bait to try and catch them out and their minds are tricked. It is like holding a radio near a TV set. It screws up the reception. If someone did that to me..the same as what they did to Acorah I would probably' fall for it'!

What happens, you just 'turn off' and subconsciously absorb by the influence of trust.
Then you will find that you are in Bad psychics. Get 5,000 correct and that is acceptable.....but get ONE wrong and you become a cheat, fraudster and charlatan.

What about the other 4,999 that you got correct? All gone!

Does this happen with science???

NO!

Look at Isaac Newton's straight light theory? Albert Einstein proved him wrong, but we still study that light travels in straight lines at school. Why is that?

Is it because science is respectable and parapsychology is not??????

So what happened to Newton?? Did we burn his books?

Nope...because science says that it was proved correct at the time. What about Acorah...was he not correct at the time? Or did it just suit because no one really believed in the mind and just sat there waiting for a slip up?

I have had it happen to me. Got one reading wrong out of many live on forum. Absolute silence at first Then I got one incorrect. Why? It just happened..maybe I was 'not with it that day' ? I must have counted about 100 posts ranging from laughter to madness in reply to this.
It literally became frightening because I thought there were no one reading my post and then 100 (or so) sprang up from nowhere.

Do you not make mistakes? Perhaps get a person's name incorrect or counted your money wrong?

We are not allowed that...because we are meant to be Godly as having an ability of divine attribution towards perfection, To be mystical and all knowing.

Well...we are not because we are human and the only thing that we have got is something what you guys should have but have lost the gift based on your own disbelief and FREE CHOICE to dismiss it as 'hocus-pocus'

The fraudsters out there are nothing to do with us. (esp me)

But then again this post is about the fraudsters as I would just like to juxtapose the two side by side.
 
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gordonrutter

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Many Psychics-Mediums are genuine including Derek Acorah and Stephen Fry.

Do you not make mistakes? Perhaps get a person's name incorrect or counted your money wrong?.
Talking of which I assume you mean Colin Fry not Stephen Fry?
 

escargot

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Talking of which I assume you mean Colin Fry not Stephen Fry?

I thought that too, then I thought 'But Colin Fry is dead, incidentally of lung cancer after many years of a ferociously-indulged tobacco habit.'

the problem is that these guys have to perform at 100% ability at 100% of the time. It just cannot be done. I can't do it...nor can they.

You buy a ticket to their show and expect your moneys worth. So what happens.. do they.say that they are sorry as they cannot perform tonight?

Well, yes, if the alternative is pretending they're hearing Spirit if they cannot 'perform' on that occasion. Why take money from hundreds of people on the promise of a fulfilling certain expectation if it can't be done? It's dishonest.
 

PeteS

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There are a lot of fraudsters in this game and it makes my life Hell.

They are out to get money and trick people to make money and I get the repercussion.

Many Psychics-Mediums are genuine including Derek Acorah and Stephen Fry.

You see..... the problem is that these guys have to perform at 100% ability at 100% of the time. It just cannot be done. I can't do it...nor can they.

You buy a ticket to their show and expect your moneys worth. So what happens.. do they.say that they are sorry as they cannot perform tonight?

You (too many 'you's) feed them bait to try and catch them out and their minds are tricked. It is like holding a radio near a TV set. It screws up the reception. If someone did that to me..the same as what they did to Acorah I would probably' fall for it'!

What happens, you just 'turn off' and subconsciously absorb by the influence of trust.
Then you will find that you are in Bad psychics. Get 5,000 correct and that is acceptable.....but get ONE wrong and you become a cheat, fraudster and charlatan.

What about the other 4,999 that you got correct? All gone!

Does this happen with science???

NO!

Look at Isaac Newton's straight light theory? Albert Einstein proved him wrong, but we still study that light travels in straight lines at school. Why is that?

Is it because science is respectable and parapsychology is not??????

So what happened to Newton?? Did we burn his books?

Nope...because science says that it was proved correct at the time. What about Acorah...was he not correct at the time? Or did it just suit because no one really believed in the mind and just sat there waiting for a slip up?

I have had it happen to me. Got one reading wrong out of many live on forum. Absolute silence at first Then I got one incorrect. Why? It just happened..maybe I was 'not with it that day' ? I must have counted about 100 posts ranging from laughter to madness in reply to this.
It literally became frightening because I thought there were no one reading my post and then 100 (or so) sprang up from nowhere.

Do you not make mistakes? Perhaps get a person's name incorrect or counted your money wrong?

We are not allowed that...because we are meant to be Godly as having an ability of divine attribution towards perfection, To be mystical and all knowing.

Well...we are not because we are human and the only thing that we have got is something what you guys should have but have lost the gift based on your own disbelief and FREE CHOICE to dismiss it as 'hocus-pocus'

The fraudsters out there are nothing to do with us. (esp me)

But then again this post is about the fraudsters as I would just like to juxtapose the two side by side.

I understand what you are saying but I think you are paying too much attention to the opinions of people on the interweb. You know the type "it's not real because I don't believe it". Why would a genuine psychic care what the disbelievers think? I wouldn't if I was one that's for sure. I believe solely because of my experience - absolutely no one has been able to convince me otherwise by explaining that experience as magic tricks or similar. Virtually everyone I know is ambivalent on the subject, taking the view that they will be convinced when their experience matches mine. I agree that fraudsters in any profession or job can make it difficult for genuine people.
 

Georgek

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I understand what you are saying but I think you are paying too much attention to the opinions of people on the interweb. You know the type "it's not real because I don't believe it". Why would a genuine psychic care what the disbelievers think? I wouldn't if I was one that's for sure. I believe solely because of my experience - absolutely no one has been able to convince me otherwise by explaining that experience as magic tricks or similar. Virtually everyone I know is ambivalent on the subject, taking the view that they will be convinced when their experience matches mine. I agree that fraudsters in any profession or job can make it difficult for genuine people.

The problem at heart Pete is the pain that these people cause and the influential way that they gather support from those with similar distastes.
You literally cannot go ahead and console your stuff with open heart when the very fabric of your essence is under siege by the defamatory legal remarks that are out to destroy.

No one is strong enough and to say that you do not care as long as you believe is really bloating oneself with self esteem which builds up obs tenancy and the inability to discuss your points without having to discuss yourself. No one should be made to do that based on what they produce at the time.

The thing with Colin Fry (now deceased) is that he was also professional . You only have to look at Bad Psychics to see how the few charge into these psychic mediums as to influence others that these guys are fraud.

You are more less facing a 'Kangaroo Court' and cease to be a human being. You are even made a fake, mad or labelled as a down and out seeking attention.

Have you ever heard of lynch mobs? They do exist even on forums but are also clever. They twist things around by making themselves the victims of ten unable to voice their own opinion until the 'we bit comes in'

I am nowhere near the status of these professionals, but I have pride in myself and what and who I am.

Nor did Iike being teased as in my earlier years they got hurt pretty bad-as indeed I just walk away now. It is fair to say that they got pretty hurt indeed. Instead of thinking "Oh as long as HE thinks that tee-hee" why not they get the laughs on themselves? fair dunkem!
I am afraid they did get pretty hurt at the end...and quite nasty. How the heck does anyone live with that post? The same they got at California as they never give up. Oh quite legal...but they did threaten me with the CIA and FBI.

Some of us are not like Colin Fry or Derek Acorah. We just have ourselves to protect and our pride. As I hear a lot about psychics not being allowed an ego. Of course we have egos as so does everyone on this board. We call it pride in ourselves and the ability to stand our ground.



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That was about 6 days later We turned it around
 

Georgek

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The other point I would like to put forward is that there are a lot of fakes out there. They make their money from the gullible amount of people who pay them for what they want to hear. These telephysics milk people for money for as much as they can get. You are termed as a good psychic providing you give people what they are looking for. In the past, if someone asked me, I would give them a reading for free. They turn round and say that I can't be any good because I do not charge. It is not a good psychic that they are looking for but one who will tell them when the tall dark stranger will come along.

To be honest...I do not think that it is the fault of the psychic. By law they have to state that what they do is for entertainment value. 'Tongue in cheek' this is not the market that they are aiming for.

So the fault has to be with the public.

The problem here is the bad give us all a bad name because the debunkers have a whale of a time denouncing not only them but every single psychic medium who is out there.

There are no regulation on this, because fortune telling is not a scientific fact.

The world creates a lot of crooks by it's own means. So we are all suspect in the eyes of the law. This means that we are innocent unless proven guilty,

This does not mean that everyone who commits a crime is a criminal. The crime is the deed and the criminal is the title.
You break the speed limit on the road and you have committed a crime but that does not mean that you are a criminal.

Likewise with fortune telling, the offence can only be apparent if it is proved.

You cannot prove fortune telling because society will not allow it. Meaning that there is no disproof but only opinionated.

Regarding all the clairaudience readings why can't the public tackle the point of failure instead of the person?

If a judge makes a mistake he is still a judge and can be assessed as doing the best he could.

I strongly think that the public never believe in the Medium. The public are waiting for mistakes and then the Medium is destroyed.
Never again to be trusted and the punishment made worse by having he or she featured as a bad psychic.

We are meant to be gods who see and know all and there is no space for mistakes...as gods are meant to be above the human race.

The trouble is that we are not gods. All we have is what everyone else has. The gift of vision but so readily denied by those who denounce their true self.

Wanting to believe and ACTUALLY believing are two different things
 
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escargot

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The problem is that mediums/psychics (let's assume they're genuine) who give demonstrations on stage for money are acting as entertainers. Once they've taken the cash they have to 'perform', as it's been put.
 

Georgek

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The problem is that mediums/psychics (let's assume they're genuine) who give demonstrations on stage for money are acting as entertainers. Once they've taken the cash they have to 'perform', as it's been put.
Of course.....

Let us say that you paid for a ticket to see a psychic...what does he tell you..that he is not on form today?


There would be an outcry and the public would want their money back as the organisers would say "Sod this there are better entertainers we can have"

The psychic may just be doing his best and not realise that he/she is failing. The tax man may be giving him/she a hard time that day or the budgie may have died.

The organisers will make it quite clear that he/she is there to entertain the audience. If they want to believe other things then that may be up to them

We once had an invite to The Galleries of Justices and as we were happy to sleep in the condemned cell for charity we had to pay nothing. The guy's name I think was Derek Stanton a magician.

The evening went well in the haunted galleries as his spirit bell was going off every ten minutes or so.

I recollect talking to his mother who mentioned how Mr Stanton found the bell in a charity shop after someone cleared ot their attic as the bell was very old from the Victorian era.

It turned out that this spirit bell was wireless controlled and was still available on ebay.

He annoyed me, because I do not like being fooled and he even fooled most of his audience.

This angered me and I 'had it out' with Mr Stanton who informed me that he was not a spiritualist but a magician or illusionist and that the public should have known that it was all trickery.

The public believed that it was real but I suppose fool hardy them!

.
 

escargot

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Let us say that you paid for a ticket to see a psychic...what does he tell you..that he is not on form today?

So if he's taken the money from a few hundred people but on the night he is 'not on form', what do you think should happen? And what do you think happens?
 

PeteS

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So if he's taken the money from a few hundred people but on the night he is 'not on form', what do you think should happen? And what do you think happens?
I see what you are saying E but at these meetings only a very tiny proportion of the audience will get messages anyway, a lot go out of general interest, an evening's entertainment and some hoping to get a message. I know many people who have gone for one or more of these reasons and no one has complained that they have felt that the person on stage is not on form and felt robbed. ( probably not on form is masked by good acting in the case of the disingenuous).
 

PeteS

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Of course.....

Let us say that you paid for a ticket to see a psychic...what does he tell you..that he is not on form today?


There would be an outcry and the public would want their money back as the organisers would say "Sod this there are better entertainers we can have"

The psychic may just be doing his best and not realise that he/she is failing. The tax man may be giving him/she a hard time that day or the budgie may have died.

The organisers will make it quite clear that he/she is there to entertain the audience. If they want to believe other things then that may be up to them

We once had an invite to The Galleries of Justices and as we were happy to sleep in the condemned cell for charity we had to pay nothing. The guy's name I think was Derek Stanton a magician.

The evening went well in the haunted galleries as his spirit bell was going off every ten minutes or so.

I recollect talking to his mother who mentioned how Mr Stanton found the bell in a charity shop after someone cleared ot their attic as the bell was very old from the Victorian era.

It turned out that this spirit bell was wireless controlled and was still available on ebay.

He annoyed me, because I do not like being fooled and he even fooled most of his audience.

This angered me and I 'had it out' with Mr Stanton who informed me that he was not a spiritualist but a magician or illusionist and that the public should have known that it was all trickery.

The public believed that it was real but I suppose fool hardy them!

.

George, you are obviously very passionate about the subject, but you're hitting your head against a brick wall trying to convince the unbelievers. It's a waste of your precious time and effort particularly as it sounds as though it's really getting to you. Unfortunately there will always be the very gullible and the very obnoxious in this world and you can't deal with them all. (sorry sounds as though I'm preaching, but it's just the take of someone who has been "around" the subject a bit)
 
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escargot

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George, you are obviously very passionate about the subject, but you're hitting your head against a brick wall trying to convince the unbelievers. It's a waste of your precious time and effort particularly as it sounds as though it's really getting to you. Unfortunately there will always be the very gullible and the very obnoxious in this world and you can't deal with them all. (sorry sounds as though I'm preaching, but it's just the take of someone who has been "around" the subject a bit)

All good points. It's not quite as black and white as that, though. Plenty of people who do believe in spirit and psychic ability are sceptical about the showbiz aspect.
 

Georgek

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George, you are obviously very passionate about the subject, but you're hitting your head against a brick wall trying to convince the unbelievers. It's a waste of your precious time and effort particularly as it sounds as though it's really getting to you. Unfortunately there will always be the very gullible and the very obnoxious in this world and you can't deal with them all. (sorry sounds as though I'm preaching, but it's just the take of someone who has been "around" the subject a bit)
There is also a lot of sadness in the world Pete.

Some folks are dissolute and others search for a better life and want to believe. Their hope and aspirations are sometimes lost in the confusion of life. They are what are called 'The Lost Souls'

We (us) do not really die because we have hope. We live again because we know that we will never die. They do not. Instead they are led astray by those who are hell bent on destroying this hope. They call it 'just wanting to believe'

I have seen (like you have) and feel an injustice in the world. It hurts me so...because if I can shine one ray of hope into the heart of another then my time is not wasted.

With all my work.......I believe that I have proof. So I try and use this proof with my posts which are date stamped in my reports.

Likewise I say to others that I am not your 'run of mill' Medium/Psychic that I am stronger and better.

Yes...it does get to me because I care. I feel an injustice when I see good psychics destroyed by the bad which are out there.
It gives me a sense of hope while there is still hope so that when I go to my maker and he asks me what did I do with my gift, I will say that I tried to share it.

You walk away and you fall alone. The pain, the injustice and the inability to both talk and do what you sincerely believe in. We all preach as we all judge others without even knowing it.
Society says it is bad to have pride and that we should shut our mouths and follow like sheep.

What is a man/woman if he/she cannot say what they think and to have to wonder with each sentence in case they make a point?

My life is supernatural. I love and live it daily and think how different I am compared to others. You become passionate like musician or an artist because you take pride in what you are.

You got me correct Pete and know that I write the truth in all my posts. You may have noticed the one about the hurricane?
Well..that got to me...because I was called a cheat . I turned a storm going South East to North West in the Caribbean by simply rotating my finger round it and flicking it upward.

I may have been helped with that one. but they got it the second, third and fourth time until they started praying to their god.
This makes me sound like James Cagney..lol I got all what I wanted...now I just walk away if I have to. They kept making out:- "Come on..break...break show us you are false"

I was a hot head back then and it was stupid thing to do. These other Mediums get destroyed

Regards George
 

Georgek

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All good points. It's not quite as black and white as that, though. Plenty of people who do believe in spirit and psychic ability are sceptical about the showbiz aspect.

Yes point taken...as they are entitled to think that way.
People are no different on forums. We all get crucified.

I doubt if anyone believes me. At least these show biz Mediums had a chance to fail. People are no different here or anywhere else. If these people who truly believe in spirit and psychic abilities really do believe, then why are they sceptical without proper cause?
Because someone fails...so do I. ( I think?)

If they REALLY believed they would not be saying 'why' but 'why not'?

If a person gets 999 correct and 1 incorrect I would say a bad day.

They see the 1 but not the 999. Why is that?

Regards

George
 

escargot

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I'm not sure who these people are who both believe and don't believe, who are willing to cough up for private or public performances but who also lay into the same mediums for getting things wrong.
 

escargot

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I turned a storm going South East to North West in the Caribbean by simply rotating my finger round it and flicking it upward.

Hold on, I missed that, you're telling us you can control the weather?

That's a bit different from claiming to know where our dear late Auntie Ethel hid her mother's favourite brooch when Uncle Ted started gambling again.
 

humanoidlord

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Hold on, I missed that, you're telling us you can control the weather?

That's a bit different from claiming to know where our dear late Auntie Ethel hid her mother's favourite brooch when Uncle Ted started gambling again.
apparently he can, i remenber george from the extinct forum alien hub, there he showed to us 2 times he apparenly summoned hurricanes at the request of skeptics, he might be the weirdest person i have ever met in the internet and not in a bad way IMO
wait until he shows some of the photos he took over the years!
 

Georgek

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Hold on, I missed that, you're telling us you can control the weather?

That's a bit different from claiming to know where our dear late Auntie Ethel hid her mother's favourite brooch when Uncle Ted started gambling again.

Yep! Take a look at my post in this thread above. 5190.1

Want to see more?

George
 
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