I am a meat popsicle
- Sep 18, 2001
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Glozel? This is the first time I think I've ever heard of it. Anyone got any recommendations on websites or books to check out about it?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...gs-confirm-comet-struck-earth-10950bc-wiping/Ancient stone carvings confirm how comet struck Earth in 10,950BC, sparking the rise of civilisations
Sarah Knapton, Science Editor
21 April 2017 • 11:25am
Ancient stone carvings confirm that a comet struck the Earth around 11,000BC, a devastating event which wiped out woolly mammoths and sparked the rise of civilisations.
Experts at the University of Edinburgh analysed mysterious symbols carved onto stone pillars at Gobekli Tepe in southern Turkey, to find out if they could be linked to constellations.
The markings suggest that a swarm of comet fragments hit Earth at the exact same time that a mini-ice age struck, changing the entire course of human history.
Scientists have speculated for decades that a comet could be behind the sudden fall in temperature during a period known as the Younger Dryas. But recently the theory appeared to have been debunked by new dating of meteor craters in North America where the comet is thought to have struck.
However, when engineers studied animal carvings made on a pillar – known as the vulture stone – at Gobekli Tepe they discovered that the creatures were actually astronomical symbols which represented constellations and the comet.
The idea had been originally put forward by author Graham Hancock in his book Magicians of the Gods.
Using a computer programme to show where the constellations would have appeared above Turkey thousands of years ago, they were able to pinpoint the comet strike to 10,950BC, the exact time the Younger Dryas begins according to ice core data from Greenland.
The Younger Dryas is viewed as a crucial period for humanity, as it roughly coincides with the emergence of agriculture and the first Neolithic civilisations.
Before the strike, vast areas of wild wheat and barley had allowed nomadic hunters in the Middle East to establish permanent base camps. But the difficult climate conditions following the impact forced communities to come together and work out new ways of maintaining the crops, through watering and selective breeding. Thus farming began, allowing the rise of the first towns.
Edinburgh researchers said the carvings appear to have remained important to the people of Gobekli Tepe for millennia, suggesting that the event and cold climate that followed likely had a very serious impact.
FULL STORY (with photos): https://www.livescience.com/59643-carved-human-skulls-found-cultic-site.htmlCarved Human Skulls Reveal Cultic Rituals at Mysterious Site in Turkey
Fragments of three carved human skulls have been uncovered at a mysterious ritual site in Turkey.
No one knows what rituals were performed at the site, which was constructed 11,000 years ago during the Stone Age in an impressive display of handiwork: The site contains several stone rings, which are decorated with elaborately carved animals and punctuated with pillars up to 13 feet (4 meters) tall. There are no signs that anyone lived at the site, which is called Göbekli Tepe, nor are there signs of formal graves. But archaeologists have uncovered 691 human bone fragments mixed into the soil there.
"It's a fantastic place," said Julia Gresky, a paleopathologist and bioarchaeologist at the German Archaeological Institute in Berlin.
Now, Göbekli Tepe has become a little bit more fantastic with the discovery of skull fragments carved with long, deliberate lines from the forehead to the back of the head. These discoveries reveal the existence of a "skull cult" in ancient eastern Anatolia, Gresky told Live Science. The ritual markings on these skulls are unlike those seen in any other civilization, though.
"I tried to compare to other known skeletal investigations from other sites, but there was nothing," Gresky said. ...
This weblog is meant to give an insight into ongoing excavations and archaeological research at the Pre-Pottery Neolithic site of Göbekli Tepe in southeastern Turkey. Notes on recent field work and short contributions by staff members of the research project will address some of the questions and topics often brought up regarding the monumental structures unearthed at Göbekli Tepe.
The Göbekli Tepe Research Project is an interdisciplinary long-term project addressing the role of early monumentality in the origins of food production, social hierarchisation and belief systems as well as questions of early subsistence strategies and faunal developments in Neolithic Anatolia, Turkey. Excavations and archaeological research in the frame of this project are conducted by the Orient and Istanbul Departments of the German Archaeological Institute (DAI – external link) in close cooperation with the Şanlıurfa Haleplibahçe Museum [external link]. The archaeobiological part of the project is conducted by the Institute of Palaeoanatomy, Domestication Research and the History of Veterinary Medicine, Ludwig-Maximilians-University, Munich [external link].
We are grateful to the General Directorate of Cultural Assets and Museums of the Turkish Ministry of Culture and Tourism [external link] for their kind permission and support to excavate this important site. Scientific work at Göbekli Tepe is funded by the German Archaeological Institute (DAI) and the German Research Foundation
This is a very interesting find.I note that multiple instances of the symbol known as the "Assyrian bucket" (or handbag/purse) can be seen at Göbekli Tepe, surely making that the earliest known depiction of that enigmatic artifact.
Wiki suggests it could have been a symbol of purification. Elsewhere it has been speculated that it symbolised creation. Whatever it was, it sure had some potency to have been depicted in artwork spanning several millennia.
Obviously we should be cautious about suggesting such links (or doing a Hancock, as I believe it's referred to), but to the casual observer the symbols do look very similar.I'm not buying any demonstrable connection between the symbology on Gobekli Tepe's Pillar 43 (the Vulture Stone) and Babylonian / Neo-Assyrian symbolism circa 9,000 - 10,000 years later.
The Gobekli Tepe figures don't match the later 'handbag' (or, probably more appropriate, 'basket' or 'bucket') figures. The rectilinear 'body' of the figure extends beyond the connection with the 'handle' on one side, and there is no graphical indication of a joint between the two primary pieces.
The Pillar 43 figures are not associated with human-like figures, and they're not being carried. Instead, each is associated with a different animal figure. They may well represent pans or enclosures for these different animals.
All fair points which could help explain the commonality of design.Side question, how many different ways can a handbag be made?
And how many of these are convergent of forms that have no underlining origin? In other words, are we looking at something that was a simple tool that arose many times independently and shows up which has no special properties? And is it compounded by there only being a small number of simple shapes? Pockets didn't show up until the 13th century, you need something to carry your stuff in.
There are gods depicted with trowels, with farming implements, and birthing stools.All fair points which could help explain the commonality of design.
It is more though the association of such a mundane artefact with depictions of deities, in widely different cultures, geographic locations and across several millennia, that I find remarkable.
I'd make the point that as far as religious or ritualistic use goes it doesn't mean in the same sense as it does today.The Göbekli Tepe site it consists primarily of x4 T shaped monoliths (weighing in at 10 tons with some perhaps as much as 40+ tons). These groups of monoliths are surrounded by a circular stone wall. Each monolith has carvings on it. Most carvings are of animals: boars, scorpions, foxes, etc. Some of the animals are native to the area, some aren’t. To date ~ 20 such structures have been unearthed and they all have the same pattern. Although much remains to be uncovered as the dig’s far from complete. It’s safe to assume the structures are of a religious – ritualistic significance.
I don’t go for theories that the Göbekli Tepe site contains any lost secrets.
The biggest significance of the Göbekli Tepe site is it’s age, with the earliest structures dating to ~10.000 BC.
As pertaining specially to the Gobekli Tepe site the exact nature of the religious - ritualistic significance is unknown and only theoretical in nature. What specific sense of significance as you referring too?I'd make the point that as far as religious or ritualistic use goes it doesn't mean in the same sense as it does today.
Stonehenge is another site that was use religious or ritualistic ceremonies which also tied into pragmatic functions.
There are some similar sites to Gobekli, as well as villages that share the pillars and are older of I remember right, but none as large as the site.
I don't know whether these count as 'lost secrets' per se, but there are two other aspects of Göbekli Tepe that I feel are more significant than the fact of its age:... I don’t go for theories that the Göbekli Tepe site contains any lost secrets.
The biggest significance of the Göbekli Tepe site is it’s age, with the earliest structures dating to ~10.000 BC.
When I speak of lost secrets I don't mean to imply that undiscovered discoveries might still be brought to light. Many unanswered questions remain. From what I understand > 90 % of the site has yet to be unearthed. I meant it in the mystical or occult sense (lets not dig to deep, pls excuse the pun).I don't know whether these count as 'lost secrets' per se, but there are two other aspects of Göbekli Tepe that I feel are more significant than the fact of its age:
- The apparent fact this monumental site was erected and maintained by people whose subsistence was still based on hunting and gathering; and ...
- The apparent fact the site was deliberately (re-?)buried, rather than destroyed, in the end.
Further excavations and analyses may change our view of what the site represents, to be sure. However, as it stands now I find it tantalizing evidence that some socio-cultural aspects of 'civilization' pre-date, or were at least gestating, prior to the widespread adoption of agriculture and fixed settlements.
I'm sorry, I don't exactly understand the phrasing of your question. My meaning was simply that what we in the modern day look at as seperate areas of thought, religion and practical matters, weren't separated out in history and prehistory. Saying something was ritualistic or religious in use doesn't necessarily mean religious worship like you would see at a modern church for example.As pertaining specially to the Gobekli Tepe site the exact nature of the religious - ritualistic significance is unknown and only theoretical in nature. What specific sense of significance as you referring too?
https://tepetelegrams.wordpress.com...-distribution-of-sites-with-t-shaped-pillars/Could you kindly share the data concerning other similar older sites?
It was pointed out on an article about the site that while no signs of domestication or husbandry have been fou d it doesn't mean they weren't happening. Early efforts of domestication don't leave many traces to be found. Though if there were, the success of other areas seem to coincide with the end of the sites use.When I speak of lost secrets I don't mean to imply that undiscovered discoveries might still be brought to light. Many unanswered questions remain. From what I understand > 90 % of the site has yet to be unearthed. I meant it in the mystical or occult sense (lets not dig to deep, pls excuse the pun).
True no signs of farming or animal husbandry have been found. So we must assume that the structures were constructed by a hunter - gatherer culture (which in itself is amazing). Particularly since such groups aren't expected to gather in the numbers needed to construct such a site.
I thought animal bones (geese, deer, goat) were found at the site?It was pointed out on an article about the site that while no signs of domestication or husbandry have been fou d it doesn't mean they weren't happening. Early efforts of domestication don't leave many traces to be found. Though if there were, the success of other areas seem to coincide with the end of the sites use.
There are signs of simple seed spreading, it wouldn't have provided much reliable food. But enough to support the single dwelling that's been found along with hunting.
Yeahp. From hunting is the expectation. But it's possible early attempts at domestication could have been carried out. We wouldn't have evidence of it though, there's a delay between the start of domestication and effects we can see showing up.I thought animal bones (geese, deer, goat) were found at the site?
Possibly, but it's worthwhile to be hesitant to ascribe what we'd expect to see in terms of meanings on a culture so far removed from ours.Many of the animal depictions however are not of animals traditionally associated with husbandry (scorpion, vulture, lizard, fox, big-toothed cat). As several depictions seem to show the animals in aggressive pose, with teeth bared, could they have been intended as a canis canem style warning to stay away?