Game Of Thrones (Spoilers, Beware)

Cochise

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I think too many people, whilst applauding its frequent brutality, also wanted a Disney ending. One thing it has done consistently is reflect life in that it's rarely neat, closure for everyone all at once never happens, and deeply unfair things happen to good people for no real reason at all.

There was some really subtle stuff in it (such as Jon not realising that he is actually immune to dragon fire, as he's a Targaryen - Drogon knew though instinctively, and also knew what had really corrupted its 'mother': they could have made a lot of that, but didn't.)

I actually liked the resolution. Again, too many people projected their own narratives on it and then got snitty when that didn't play out.
Well, it was a sort of Disney ending. All the survivors pretty much got what they wanted. Even Jon is probably much happier going off with the Wildings than he would have been on the throne. But Bran is the 3ER - we know he can change history, so he could have prevented Dany going all out revenge on Kings Landing.

Ser Davos would have been better - he's acted honourably throughout.

Oh well, I'm over my disappointment now. And just remembered that Jon killed Ygritte as well - he has form for killing off his sexual partners.
 

stu neville

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Well, it was a sort of Disney ending. All the survivors pretty much got what they wanted.
..I meant more along the lines of beaming wedding Jon and Dany, waving at Drogon as he flies overhead with Ghost on his back, with a rousing showtune and everyone happy and laughing as fireworks and confetti fill the air kind of Disney. Which is mad, but there are people out there incandescent that this didn't happen (they really, really need to get out more.)

Ser Davos would have been better - he's acted honourably throughout.
Agreed. I was expecting him to be named.
 

James_H

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Also, that final scene with Tyrion arranging chairs, whilst cleverly reminiscent of him doing something very similar back in the Charles Dance days (c. series 3?) was in an impossibly well restored Red Keep.
Yeah, that was ridiculous.
 

James_H

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You do wonder what the job of the Night's Watch is now.
They were using the night's watch as a pretext to keep Grey Worm happy until he left. They don't exist any more and they fully expected Jon to go off North of the Wall.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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Another thing has just struck me.

The ships in GoT appeared to be significantly more advanced than anything Christopher Columbus had, let alone the Vikings, and yet, when Arya Stark pondered "what lies west of Westeros", the answer was "no-one knows".
She seemed to have no problem however catching a ride on some massive galleon into the unknown.
Really?
 

CarlosTheDJ

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Another thing has just struck me.

The ships in GoT appeared to be significantly more advanced than anything Christopher Columbus had, let alone the Vikings, and yet, when Arya Stark pondered "what lies west of Westeros", the answer was "no-one knows".
She seemed to have no problem however catching a ride on some massive galleon into the unknown.
Really?
I think it was her boat, it had a huge Stark sigil on the sails and the masthead - Bran the Buggered must have let her use it.
 

GNC

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Ha, appeared on Amazon this morning, was doing nothing else today so my birthday present to me was a binge watch of season 8 before the whole goddam lot could be spoiled.

As a whole, if that's the way they wanted to wrap it up, it's fine by me, as mentioned before on this thread hordes of entitled fans are making it difficult to enjoy any successful franchise now (not least for themselves), but I liked the "absolute power corrupts absolutely" moral, the allusions to how dangerously tempting nuclear weapons are, but above all, how it was all just a story and stories are what keep us together.

Don't know how long Bran will last, though - man, that guy's creepy! Also, [sexist] lovely bum, Maisie (and it is hers, you sceptics) [/sexist]. Real event TV, and it was an event across the world. There's a lot worse things that inspire that level of interest.
 

Cochise

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Ha, appeared on Amazon this morning, was doing nothing else today so my birthday present to me was a binge watch of season 8 before the whole goddam lot could be spoiled.

As a whole, if that's the way they wanted to wrap it up, it's fine by me, as mentioned before on this thread hordes of entitled fans are making it difficult to enjoy any successful franchise now (not least for themselves), but I liked the "absolute power corrupts absolutely" moral, the allusions to how dangerously tempting nuclear weapons are, but above all, how it was all just a story and stories are what keep us together.

Don't know how long Bran will last, though - man, that guy's creepy! Also, [sexist] lovely bum, Maisie (and it is hers, you sceptics) [/sexist]. Real event TV, and it was an event across the world. There's a lot worse things that inspire that level of interest.
I feel on reflection I was a lazy watcher. I enjoyed the interplay of the characters so much (except bran, who I found utterly tedious) I seem to have either never noticed or forgotten about a lot of foreshadowing.

Yes, I had got invested in particular characters and I suppose developed likes and dislikes which would be different from other people. My criticism of the last series was that it was too rushed, so those of who were just watching instead of looking for clues were a bit taken aback by some of the plot development. And there seemed to be a lack of continuity from one episode to another - the Dothraki were wiped out at Winterfell, but there they were plundering away in King's Landing.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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I feel on reflection I was a lazy watcher. I enjoyed the interplay of the characters so much (except bran, who I found utterly tedious) I seem to have either never noticed or forgotten about a lot of foreshadowing.

Yes, I had got invested in particular characters and I suppose developed likes and dislikes which would be different from other people. My criticism of the last series was that it was too rushed, so those of who were just watching instead of looking for clues were a bit taken aback by some of the plot development. And there seemed to be a lack of continuity from one episode to another - the Dothraki were wiped out at Winterfell, but there they were plundering away in King's Landing.
That was only one cavalry regiment that got wasted at Winterfell.
The slower-travelling, spear-wielding grunts on foot presumably yomped the far shorter distance from Essos to Kings Landing for the Bells episode. I'm sure the Dothraki, being a very war-like people, loosely based on the Mongol hordes, had multiple armies.
 

Cochise

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That was only one cavalry regiment that got wasted at Winterfell.
The slower-travelling, spear-wielding grunts on foot presumably yomped the far shorter distance from Essos to Kings Landing for the Bells episode. I'm sure the Dothraki, being a very war-like people, loosely based on the Mongol hordes, had multiple armies.
Which ties to my thing about it being too rushed. Too many battles, not enough conversation compared to earlier series. You didn't have to wonder why Stannis or Littlefinger were riding to the rescue in their respective battles, it was explained.

Maybe they were deliberately upping the pace to give a climactic effect, I don't know. I don't agree with a lot of the criticisms of the last series I've even got used to Dany being killed off .

I'm probably getting withdrawal symptoms and wishing they'd done more episodes :)
 

Ogdred Weary

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i have never watched the show, but this made me laugh
I laughed until I almost pooed.

I saw about three minutes of that episode that was Too Dark and people complained they couldn't see anything, well, it was Too Dark and I couldn't see anything.
 

GNC

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Happy birthday GNC!
Thankyou, sir. I felt bad this morning about the Maisie comment after the news that Natalie Portman thinks Moby is a creep, don't want to be that guy, but in my defence she says she gets addicted to reading comments about herself online, esp. negative ones, so there's a positive one. Illegitimi non carborundum, Maisie - lobby for an Arya spin-off!
 

GNC

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In which Arya discovers the mysterious Western continent, and loses her trousers.
Apparently we're not getting any sequels, just prequels. Think I might be over the GoT universe, but maybe I'll be coaxed back (trousers or no trousers).
 

GNC

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Although I could barely comprehend the guy's impenetrable accent, he made exactly the same observation I did above about Daenerys' idiotic tactics about flying straight at the enemy warships!
Wasn't she flying on her dragon with the sun right behind her to prevent the enemy getting a clear shot because they'd been dazzled?
 

Gloucestrian

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I am not sure Bran will be King for long. His small council is weak, Ser Bronn was being pretty irritating and getting away with it as he is now far more powerful than Tywin Lannister ever was. Lord Paramount of the Reach and master of coin, likely principal loan shark too. Gendry is in the Stormlands and has a proper claim on the throne. Not to mention with the example set by the North, Dorne and most of the other Kingdoms can just secede. Not much realpolitik to the ending.
 

GNC

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You're underestimating how much the people would be sick of war, especially such a destructive and divisive war. I'd imagine they'd give Bran a very big chance.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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You're underestimating how much the people would be sick of war, especially such a destructive and divisive war. I'd imagine they'd give Bran a very big chance.
Remember how Samwell's plea for democracy was scoffed at though in that final episode?
That, quite amusing, scene reminded us that these were brutal people living in brutal (ok mythical) times and the common populace expected a powerful/totalitarian king or an emperor and certainly weren't ready for liberal democracy.
 

GNC

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They'll get a liberal democracy whether they want it or not - by force if necessary.
 

Gloucestrian

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You're underestimating how much the people would be sick of war, especially such a destructive and divisive war. I'd imagine they'd give Bran a very big chance.
What people? The common people?

The council midway through the final episode was of the remaining high lords of Westeros. With the exception of sparsely populated Dorne the remaining Kingdoms have been heavily affected by war, their population reduced. The reason Kings Landing had a million residents was because some half a million had come to the city as refugees of war since Ned kicked off the war of the five kings by sending Beric Dondarrion to kill The Mountain back in series one. That million is now largely dead, as are many tens of thousands of northmen killed in the wars, tens of thousands of westermen and probably a significant amount of stormlanders, riverlanders.

That's actually one of the reasons I feel it is highly unlikely some of the more ambitious minor houses would accept King Bran. For one, he's not in the line of succession and if you are ripping up that rule then why shouldn't Bronn be King? Why wouldn't he take the army of the Reach, which is one of the most populated areas, and seize the opportunity?

If you think that the ordinary people will stop him due to tiredness of war, how? Bronn would simply call his banners and put down any civil disturbances by force.

Somehow I cannot see someone like Bronn whom the Lannisters gave a knighthood, a castle and high position yet who remained unsatisfied by his lot being satisfied to remain a high lord. After a few years, at most, he and other ambitious lords would start another war.

The only possible thing that Bran could do to prevent this is to build a Royal Army directly loyal to him/his office. An idea that Joffrey proposed to Cersei that she shot down and those reasons are still valid. If he did try it, he would need a master of coin that was loyal to him. But his master of coin is Bronn.
 

GNC

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You've obviously thought about it far more than I have. It was just a TV show for me.
 

James_H

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I read that in one of the early mediaeval kingdoms in what is now Scotland, kingship was alternated between two families. This of course led to extraordinarily short reigns for each King as the rival family had him assassinated. I can see it being a bit that way with the new system of elected monarchs in Westeros.
 

GNC

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You've obviously thought about it far more than I have. It was just a TV show for me.
Sorry, that was a bit short - what I meant was it's just an entertainment show for me, I know Martin based it on British history to an extent, but I wouldn't take it seriously as setting out a workable model for a kingdom (or a democracy) any more than I would take Dallas seriously as a guide to operating an oil business.
 

Gloucestrian

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Sorry, that was a bit short - what I meant was it's just an entertainment show for me, I know Martin based it on British history to an extent, but I wouldn't take it seriously as setting out a workable model for a kingdom (or a democracy) any more than I would take Dallas seriously as a guide to operating an oil business.
I watched the first few series then read the books as the depth of the material impressed me. The books have even more material than was adapted for the series.

Thrones always had a bit of realpolitik to it that made it internally consistent if not realistic. I agree that expecting it to be realistic would be wrong but it can be internally consistent. The unrelenting conflict between the various houses was consistent with what you might expect from the Westerosi history that was described, which as you say was inspired by British history, and consistent with the characters prior behaviour. The ending was not, unfortunately. The last series was beautifully filmed and produced but let down by the writing which was not up to the standard of the earlier series.
 

GNC

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I think it might have seemed richer in the earlier episodes because they had more characters to depict, but such was their habit of killing them off the result was that it made it seem a lot more straightforward come the last six episodes. Being complex can simply be a matter of a lot going on at the same time. They were following Martin's outlines, too.
 
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