• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

Genghis Khan: Founding Father Of A Widespread Lineage

Rrose_Selavy

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Jan 6, 2003
Messages
1,634
Don't know if this has been posted before.

Taking the Genghis Khan test
By Chirag Trivedi
BBC News Online, London


Sitting in front of a packed restaurant as someone stuck what looked like a micro toilet brush in my mouth was the undignified way I began to find out if I was related to the evil conqueror Genghis Khan.
While the blood-thirsty Mongol emperor was rampaging across Central Asia and the Middle East, I was just a passing genetic thought in one of my ancestor's DNA.

But that DNA could determine if I am one of the world's 17 million people that a recent study suggests are descended from the infamous Khan and his tribe.

I have about six weeks before the results arrive from Oxford Ancestors, which provides DNA-based services for ancestry research.

The tests are part of the burgeoning field of bioarchaeology, which uses genetics to learn about our ancient ancestors.


We can tell them what their relatives were doing 10,000 years ago
Oxford Ancestors' David Ashworth

Founded four years ago by Oxford University geneticist Bryan Sykes, Oxford Ancestors offers the DNA testing for about £180, to people around the world eager to trace their genetic roots.
Last month it began offering the Genghis Khan test, which exploits an Oxford University study of genetic material and migration patterns in Central Asia.

It found there was a high proportion - about 8% - of men who share a Y-chromosome pattern within their genetic material.

But outside that geographical area the frequency of the Y-chromosome pattern falls off to virtually zero.

By tracking back the time when the pattern emerged and the movement of Genghis Khan as he built up his empire in the 12th and 13th Centuries, experts conclude that the source of the pattern was the Mongol warlord.


GENGHIS KHAN
Born Tem jin in 1165
Became tribe leader aged 10 after his father was murdered. Abandoned by his clan he led a poor, nomadic life
Aged about 20, he married his wife Borte. According to legend he rescued her after she was kidnapped
In 1206 he united the formerly fragmented tribes of what is now Mongolia, and was titled Genghis Khan or "Universal Ruler"
Founded the Mongol Empire by conquering most of Asia, including China, Russia, Persia, and the Middle East, and Eastern Europe
Died in 1227
His body was returned to Mongolia, and legend has it that the escort killed anyone that strayed across their path, so as not to reveal where he was finally laid to rest

His habit of killing the men and inseminating the women when his army conquered a new territory, coupled with handing the empire and other wealth to his sons, and their sons, would explain how the chromosome pattern came to such prevalence today.
But without a tissue sample - Khan's grave has never been found - the results are based on an assessment of probabilities.

David Ashworth, chief executive of Oxford Ancestors, said: "If the test result comes back positive it means you share the same Y-chromosome pattern.

"It is almost impossible to say for definite that you are a descendent of Genghis Khan as we are talking about very, very ancient paternal ancestry and a time frame of at least seven centuries.

"But there is scientific evidence that if you do have this Y-chromosome then there is a very strong probability that you are descended from Genghis Khan."

Mr Ashworth said the chances of a white, male from the UK being related to Khan are very slim but that they do offer tests to determine what European tribes you have come from.

"The ethos of the company is to take what is discovered and make it available to the public," Mr Ashworth said.

Genetic legacy

"We are talking about people's genetic legacy - where we came from. We can tell them what their relatives were doing 10,000 years ago.

"We don't do forensic or criminal work or detect for diseases. We can't tell you anything about your future but we can tell you about your past."

Shish, a London-based restaurant specialising in the cooking of Central Asia and the Middle East, offered the tests for free in honour of the Mongolian Government's decision to reintroduce surnames.

In the 1990s, Mongolia's newly democratic government decided to reverse the policy of 70 years of Communist government, which banned surnames in an attempt to break the power of feudal clans.

By the end-of-June deadline for registering surnames, more than half the population had chosen the name Borjigin, or Master of the Blue Wolf - Genghis Khan's clan name.

Whether or not I am a very distant member of that tribe, only time - and my DNA - will tell.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/u ... 871159.stm
Published: 2004/07/14 05:51:52 GMT
© BBC MMIV
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Published online: 24 October 2005;
| doi:10.1038/news051024-1

Y chromosomes reveal founding father

Did conquest and concubines spread one man's genes across Asia?
Charlotte Schubert

About 1.5 million men in northern China and Mongolia may be descended from a single man, according to a study based on Y chromosome genetics1.

Historical records suggest that this man may be Giocangga, who lived in the mid-1500s and whose grandson founded the Qing dynasty, which ruled China from 1644 to 1912.

The analysis is similar to a controversial study in 2003, which suggested that approximately 16 million men alive today are descended from the Mongolian conqueror Genghis Khan2.

The male descendants of Giocangga, like Khan's sons and grandsons, ruled over vast swathes of land, living a lavish existence with many wives and concubines. The study published in this month's American Journal of Human Genetics suggests it was a good strategy for reproductive success.

All geneticists know we are living fossils.

Steve Jones
University College, London



"This kind of male reproductive advantage is perhaps a more important feature of human genetics than we thought," says Chris Tyler-Smith, at the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute in Hinxton, UK, who led both studies.

Fossilized Y

Documenting the immense fecundity of these conquerors involves overlaying historical records and genetic analyses. Most informative is the small Y chromosome, holed up in the cells of every man, and relatively resistant to change.

Other chromosomes furiously exchange genetic information with each other. But during mating, the Y pairs up with the X, a giant chromosome by comparison and a poor fit for gene swapping. This means that the Y chromosome passes along steadily from father to son through the generations, providing a relatively fixed marker for clues about ancestry.

In the recent analysis, Tyler-Smith and his colleagues in Britain and China examined the Y chromosome of about 1,000 men in eastern Asia. The researchers compared the DNA sequences at numerous locations along the Y chromosome, finding close similarities among 3.3% of the men. That genetic similarity suggests that these men shared a common male ancestor who lived about 600 years ago, give or take a few centuries.

To identify who spawned this prolific Y chromosome, Tyler-Smith and his colleagues turned to their history books. They found Giocangga, whose grandson led the Manchu conquest of China in 1644 and established the Qing dynasty.

A large class of noblemen, descended by law from Giocangga, then ruled the state until 1912. Even a low-rank noble had many concubines, and was presumably expert at spreading Giocangga's chromosome around.

Further supporting Tyler-Smith's theory, the Manchu in the army mixed with only certain ethnic groups, and today these groups have the highest frequency of Giocangga's Y chromosome.

Only Genghis Khan's Y chromosome approaches the prevalence of Giocangga's, popping up in about 2.5% of the men, says Tyler-Smith.

Whose Y?

Getting a precise date for the origin of the chromosome is difficult, say geneticists, and pinning it to a historical figure is even less exact.

"But all geneticists know we are living fossils," says Steve Jones of University College London, who adds that the Giocangga hypothesis is "not unreasonable". Martin Richards, a human geneticist at the University of Leeds, UK, says that Tyler-Smith's analysis showing a common origin for the Y chromosome is among the most thorough he has seen.

However, others dispute the findings. The date for the origin of the Y chromosome is much too wobbly to pin on Giocangga, says Stanford's Luca Cavalli-Sforza. He also disputes the study on Genghis Khan and says both findings are overly sensational.

The investigators could help their case by examining the Y chromosome of known descendents of Giocangga. But that might be easier said than done.

ADVERTISEMENT


Although the noble class had 80,000 members by 1912, the Chinese cultural revolution of the 60s and 70s caused people to hide their noble descent for fear of persecution, and many records were destroyed. Several men today who are known to trace their ancestry back to Giocangga would not yield their DNA, the scientists say.

If this study and the work on Khan are right, they suggest that winning Y chromosomes thrive on hierarchy, patriarchy and conquest. "They tell us that those who regard history as the record of human frailty, weakness and disaster are right," says Jones.



Top



References
Xue Y., et al. Am. J. Hum. Genet., 77. published online Abstract (2005).
Zergal T., et al. Am. J. Hum. Genet., 72. 717 - 721 (2003).


Story from [email protected]:
http://news.nature.com//news/2005/051024/051024-1.html



© 2004 Nature Publishing Group
 
Genghis Khan may get protection

Mongolia's President may decide what Genghis Khan looked like
Mongolia has moved to register the name of its legendary conqueror Genghis Khan as a commercial brand.
The parliament in Ulan Bator is debating a law that would allow the Mongolian government to license the use of his name and image.

Genghis Khan established a vast empire 700 years ago, but today his face is found on vodka bottles and the capital city has a brewery named after him.

However, Mongolians are sensitive about his appropriation by foreign companies.

"Foreigners are attempting to use the Genghis Khan name", one parliamentarian said, claiming that businesses in Russia, China and Kazakhstan were all portraying him as a native of their countries.

National identity

The law would allow the government to set fees for the use of Genghis Khan's name. It would also permit the Mongolian President to select one official portrait from the 10 in use and define which bodies could use this image.



Under communist rule, imagery of Genghis Khan was prohibited.

But as Mongolia has emerged from the shadow of the Soviet Union its people have turned to the 13th century warrior as a potent symbol of national identity.

Mongolia's position, landlocked between Russia and China, means its 2.5 million strong population is concerned about any suggestion of these huge neighbours exerting control over national symbols.

While Genghis Khan is better known in the West for establishing an empire that spanned half the known world, many contemporary Mongolians see him as a way of putting their country firmly on the map.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5412410.stm
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hmm, I might go for that.

Tattoo of the week

The quote Mario Balotelli had etched on his chest.

And whose quote is it?

Someone like, say, Mahatma Gandhi? No: the Mongolian rowdy, Genghis Khan.

“I am the punishment of God,” it reads. “If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.”

Roberto Mancini must, occasionally, feel like the greatest of sinners.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 90579.html
 
Millions of men bear the genetic legacy of Genghis Khan, the famously fertile Mongolian ruler who died in 1227. Researchers have now recognized ten other men whose fecundity has left a lasting impression on present-day populations. The team's study1 points to sociopolitical factors that foster such lineages, but the identities of the men who left their genetic stamp remains unknown.


The case for Genghis Khan’s genetic legacy is strong, if circumstantial. A 2003 paper2 led by Chris Tyler-Smith, an evolutionary geneticist now at the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute in Hinxton, UK, discovered that 8% of men in 16 populations spanning Asia (and 0.5% of men worldwide) shared nearly identical Y-chromosome sequences. The variation that did exist in their DNA suggested that the lineage began around 1,000 years ago in Mongolia.

Khan is reputed to have sired hundreds of children. But a Y-chromosome lineage traces a single paternal line in a much larger family tree, and for it to leave a lasting legacy takes multiple generations who fan out over a wide geographical area, says Mark Jobling, a geneticist at the University of Leicester, UK, who led the latest study with geneticist Patricia Balaresque of Paul Sabatier University in Toulouse, France. ...

http://www.nature.com/news/genghis-khan-s-genetic-legacy-has-competition-1.16767
 
Doesn't do to dis Genghis Khan.

A Chinese man has been jailed for a year for stamping on a portrait of Mongol ruler Genghis Khan, after being found guilty of inciting ethnic hatred.

The court in China's Inner Mongolia region was told the man, identified by his surname Luo, had filmed himself trampling on the picture in May.

The 19-year-old then circulated the video clip online, causing public discontent, according to reports.

Genghis Khan remains a revered figure among ethnic Mongols.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42364214
 
I couldn't find a thread discussing this interesting subject, so here we are!

I've been fascinated by the breadth and reach of the 13th century Genghis Khan's territory (the edge of Asia almost to the edge of Europe) and also by the genetic legacy he & his guys left behind. To quote from Nature, January 2015:

"The case for Genghis Khan’s genetic legacy is strong, if circumstantial. A 2003 paper led by Chris Tyler-Smith, an evolutionary geneticist now at the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute in Hinxton, UK, discovered that 8% of men in 16 populations spanning Asia (and 0.5% of men worldwide) shared nearly identical Y-chromosome sequences. The variation that did exist in their DNA suggested that the lineage began around 1,000 years ago in Mongolia. "

https://www.nature.com/news/genghis-khan-s-genetic-legacy-has-competition-1.16767

This article also identifies two other 'competitor' males whose descendants have also scattered their distinctive Y-chromosome lineage far and wide; one from Asia and another from Europe:

"Genghis Khan is reputed to have sired hundreds of children. But a Y-chromosome lineage traces a single paternal line in a much larger family tree, and for it to leave a lasting legacy takes multiple generations who fan out over a wide geographical area, says Mark Jobling, a geneticist at the University of Leicester, UK, who led the latest study with geneticist Patricia Balaresque of Paul Sabatier University in Toulouse, France.

“Lots of men have lots of sons, by chance. But what normally doesn’t happen is the sons have a high probability of having lots of sons themselves. You have to have a reinforcing effect,” says Jobling. Establishment of such successful lineages often depends on social systems that allow powerful men to father children with multitudes of women.

In addition to Genghis Khan and his male descendants, researchers have previously identified the founders of two other highly successful Y-chromosome lineages: one that began in China with Giocangga, a ruler who died in 1582 whose lineage was spread by the Qing Dynasty, and another belonging to the medieval Uí Néill dynasty in Ireland
"

There are also several other dominant Y-descendant lines being analysed, so far estimated to originate from c.2000 BC to 700 AD-ish.

So, chaps, if you want to get into a genetic competition with Messrs. Genghis Khan, Giocangga and Uí Néill you have to be super-fertile and have lots of male babies with lots of women!

Another article here, from the Smithsonian: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...enetic-legacies-likes-genghis-khan-180954052/
 
Last edited:
I couldn't find a thread discussing this interesting subject, so here we are!

I've been fascinated by the breadth and reach of the 13th century Genghis Khan's territory (the edge of Asia almost to the edge of Europe) and also by the genetic legacy he & his guys left behind. To quote from Nature, January 2015:

"The case for Genghis Khan’s genetic legacy is strong, if circumstantial. A 2003 paper led by Chris Tyler-Smith, an evolutionary geneticist now at the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute in Hinxton, UK, discovered that 8% of men in 16 populations spanning Asia (and 0.5% of men worldwide) shared nearly identical Y-chromosome sequences. The variation that did exist in their DNA suggested that the lineage began around 1,000 years ago in Mongolia. "

https://www.nature.com/news/genghis-khan-s-genetic-legacy-has-competition-1.16767

This article also identifies two other 'competitor' males whose descendants have also scattered their distinctive Y-chromosome lineage far and wide; one from Asia and another from Europe:

"Genghis Khan is reputed to have sired hundreds of children. But a Y-chromosome lineage traces a single paternal line in a much larger family tree, and for it to leave a lasting legacy takes multiple generations who fan out over a wide geographical area, says Mark Jobling, a geneticist at the University of Leicester, UK, who led the latest study with geneticist Patricia Balaresque of Paul Sabatier University in Toulouse, France.

“Lots of men have lots of sons, by chance. But what normally doesn’t happen is the sons have a high probability of having lots of sons themselves. You have to have a reinforcing effect,” says Jobling. Establishment of such successful lineages often depends on social systems that allow powerful men to father children with multitudes of women.

In addition to Genghis Khan and his male descendants, researchers have previously identified the founders of two other highly successful Y-chromosome lineages: one that began in China with Giocangga, a ruler who died in 1582 whose lineage was spread by the Qing Dynasty, and another belonging to the medieval Uí Néill dynasty in Ireland
"

There are also several other dominant Y-descendant lines being analysed, so far estimated to originate from c.2000 BC to 700 AD-ish.

So, chaps, if you want to get into a genetic competition with Messrs. Genghis Khan, Giocangga and Uí Néill you have to be super-fertile and have lots of male babies with lots of women!

Another article here, from the Smithsonian: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...enetic-legacies-likes-genghis-khan-180954052/

It's discussed here: https://forums.forteana.org/index.p...ounding-father-of-a-widespread-lineage.23893/
 
Last edited by a moderator:
They say Genghis Khan was a redhead. Strange we then don't see more asian redheads.
 
They say Genghis Khan was a redhead. Strange we then don't see more asian redheads.

Asia's a mighty big place :) There are natural redheads and blonds in Kashmir, Afghanistan and central Asia, but not the numbers seen in Europe.
 
I was thinking mongoloid redheads.
 
I was thinking mongoloid redheads.

There are instances of groups of people in east Asia having naturally red or blonde hair - you might find this article interesting?

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/11/no-romans-needed-to-explain-chinese-blondes/

It seems the common genetic factor is high levels of Uyghur ancestry which tends to have west Asian and northern European genes in high proportions but very little southern European/Middle East.

A great pic, from the article:

uyghurboy.png


I find genetics fascinating, since studying it at school, and then at University (though mainly to do with plants at that stage). It taught me there is only one human 'race' and the variations of our species are simply just that, variations on a human theme.
 
khan.jpg

My former Work colleague, journeying back from a Hadj in the early '90s, was invited into a stranger's house for a meal simply because his surname was Khan - it still carries weight in parts of the world.
 
Back
Top