'Ghost Hunting' Shows Are Getting So Bad That It's Beyond Amusing

Swifty

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I do love that 30 odd years have passed and they still enjoy making each other laugh. I love Athletico Mince but Bob needs Vic and Vic needs Bob.
Swerving off topic for a moment but me and the Mrs met Bob (and Paul Whitehouse) a few months back at our hotel, Bob was like a nervous school boy and took to following her around. Paul was making the staff laugh. I reckon 'Catterick' was Vic and Bob's masterpiece.
 

GNC

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It is people like these "ghost hunters" who are responsible for the decline of the USA globally. They represent a plague of stupidity that has overtaken the place, and perhaps C-19 will cure some of it? Ignore science at your peril people!
Or maybe they're just having a novelty night out with their friends.
 

AlchoPwn

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Or maybe they're just having a novelty night out with their friends.
C'mon, I'm talking about the teams who work on "Ghost Adventures" like Zak Baggans, who's a Christian Fundamentalist with an axe to grind who convinces people to demolish their house because "demons", not pleasant amateurs off to visit a ruin for a bit of frisson.
 

GNC

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C'mon, I'm talking about the teams who work on "Ghost Adventures" like Zak Baggans, who's a Christian Fundamentalist with an axe to grind who convinces people to demolish their house because "demons", not pleasant amateurs off to visit a ruin for a bit of frisson.
But aren't the fundies with an axe to grind in the minority? Most people on ghost hunts are having a laugh, or the scary equivalent.
 

AlchoPwn

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But aren't the fundies with an axe to grind in the minority? Most people on ghost hunts are having a laugh, or the scary equivalent.
You'd hope so.
 

AgProv

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just watched an episode of the TV show Mystery Diners. This is predicated on an investigation team running sting operations to root out fraud, bad behaviour and theft among restaurant employees. That is, until they took on a job in an allegedly haunted eating place. (note S5/10 Mazi's Taverna, Seattle) Inevitably, a TV show which investigates fraud and dishonesty among restaurant staff turned up more "hard evidence" for the building being haunted, than an entire series run of those haunted house shows shot in murky green light. (note The caveat is that of course the viewer has to take it on trust that what they see hasn't been manipulated and edited to make a better story. As the disclaimer, which is on screen for all of fifteen seconds says, "certain events may have been re-enacted for dramatic purposes".) They even have a far more plausible and telegenic spiritual medium on MD's own staff, which is convenient. It turned out that employees were exploiting the fact their building is allegedly haunted, in order to run unofficial and profitable after-hours ghost tours (and also to take advantage of their employer being superstitious and believing it. He's too terrified to investigate properly, which allows the staff even more scope for taking the piss.).

I'll try to set up a link here to the show, but it's interesting a completely different genre of TV investigation show appeared to turn up far more "hard evidence" of haunting when they weren't really looking for it, and their hidden mikes and cameras were there to find evidence of more down to earth things, like fraudulent or misbehaving employees.

The location is real and it did close for good four months after the MD investigation - allegedly because the hauntings continued, but they say three out of every four restaurant businesses only last a year or two before going under, haunted or not. Pretty sure this might have been heavily embellished for TV to make a better story, but could be worth taking a closer look? Back in the morning when I'm less tired...
 
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AgProv

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This is as close as I can get to a freely available episode online - it's been "flipped" backwards for some reason but the essential content is still there.


Venue: Greek taverna in Seattle, Washington. Address and provenance verified as 3426 NE 55th St, Seattle, WA 98105, United States.
Situation: owner is clearly rattled by the repuation his premises have for being haunted and is reluctant to be on his own in the building as strange things have happened. The narration tells us that local folklore says, variably, a murder happened there, or else women were kept in chains in the attic for some unspecified purposes, or both. Owner says he has felt cold chills, movement behind him and touches on his back and shoulders in otherwise empty rooms.

Seemingly nonplussed, Mystery Diners bloke Charles S asks how they can help. Taverna owner then says he suspects staff and guests have been in parts of the building which he has said are off-limits; he suspects informal "ghost-hunting" is happening and his staff are facilitating trespass, with all the implications for security and liability if anyone gets hurt. Charles S says he can certainly help with this.

A total of perhaps fifteen hidden cameras are set up in all parts of the building along with microphones and listening devices. Note: the "attic" described is not an "attic" as we would know it - it's an upstairs first floor of the building above the main dining area. The owner has locked this off from the dining ground floor and made it clear this is off-limits to all employed staff. However, there is clear evidence people are going up there - signs of disturbance and empty beer bottles, nicked from the restaurant.

Investigators sent in as diners are offered the "ghost tour" which is down to collusion betwen staff who are faking the paranormal activity (and nicking beer from the cooler). Hidden camera footage also discovers staff are pranking each other and blaming it on the ghosts. Therefore on one level what is happening is the classic Scooby-Doo Hoax where supernatural activity is faked for financial gain. ("we'd have gotten away with it too, if it hadn't have been for those pesky Mystery Diners!") So this show is in itself Fortean for this reason and I commend it to the membership.

But. And this "but" is subject to caveat - this is a TV show which has been edited and perhaps scripted to tell a story. How real is reality TV?

Charles Stiles - very conveniently - has an investigator working on his team who is, in her spare time, a part-time spiritual medium. What are the chances, eh? We are assured she knows nothing of the paranormal dimension and is going in "cold" - all she knows is that the place is allegedly haunted, so out of interest, tell me if you sense anything? Straight away she tunes in and appears to corroborate the story of women locked up, against their will, in the attic. Hmmm.

Also, one of the recording devices picks up, on the very edge of hearing, a voice saying "go away!" (At the same time, a member of bar staff demonstrates how the A/C system has funny acoustics and words spoken in the bar can be heard in the attic if spoken in the right place. All to do with the pipes)

The cameras and recording devices set up in the "attic" also malfunction, mysteriously. (Were they hardwired or relayed via wifi? As any BT customer knows, wifi-enabled devices set up furthest away from the home hub with floors or walls or other devices in between are going to be problematic). This does not prevent the gist of events from being recorded - undercover investigator goes on a "ghost tour" fortified by an offer of beer stolen from the premises. Other staff members fake a haunting. Lots of girly screaming audible from downstairs much to the concern of people eating. Staff members are then rounded up, sackings all round.

But.... always a "but" - the buiding was the centre of an alleged haunting, reports continued until it closed four months later with the owner planning to relocate elsewhere in Seattle. Still looking for independent confirmation of "haunting" from sources other than the TV show.
 
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AgProv

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Further background digging: as of August 2019 the location is occupied by an Italian pizzeria - it would be interesting to find if they have reported hauntings. Also - had a suspicion the TV show had been Halloween-themed; it was broadcast on 10/3/2014, apparently, so that idea is scotched. (EDIT - 10th March, that is, not 3rd October) The building itself is not "period" and appears to be a relatively new build, 1970's-ish from style? (remember reading that 1960's - 1980's there was a fad for Mexican hacienda-themed buildings in the USA) Cannot find too much to corroborate the haunted restaurant theme, but sources indicate the place had been in background financial bother for at least a year beforehand. Therefore a lucrative TV tie-in to boost business. Also trying to find if Greek bloke succeeded in relocating to new premises or if he went out of business altogether...

EDIT: Demetri Georgakopoulos appears to have been in Greek catering for at least ten years prior to this show - had a previous business elsewhere in Seattle. Strangely, moved from a prime city centre location to this one out in the suburbs. A person of this name is also listed as manager of a Greek deli in Seattle; this reference is dated for 2011 suggesting a career break in between restaurants (cannot verify if this is the same person; might be a common Greek name) As far as I can tell, today he is not in catering any more and is making a living as an estate agent. So far no trace of his having started another Greek eaterie after this place closed in mid-2014. So this indirectly supports the "financial problems" thing?

EDIT 2 - new owners Mioposto (no connection with prior tenants) are part of a local chain; so far I have found no reports whatsoever of continuing hauntings or paranormal events in the building... still looking... checking Mioposto Ravenna at this address for any reports, so far not finding a thing... I rather suspect any paranormal activity ended with the change of ownership!




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Naughty_Felid

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Can we change the title of this thread - I've been told by Swifty.

Something like Ghost Hunting teams - scientific rigor or the lack of?
 

AlchoPwn

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I strongly recommend Paranormal Home Inspectors. This show is a laugh riot. They start off priming the audience with ghostly happenings, then Brian comes along and scooby-doobunks the lot. Better yet, Brian never gets spooked, and has this workmanlike attitude towards maintenance issues that makes him seem utterly unlike a spook show presenter, and seems more like a tradesman who just happened to be accidentally involved in the show somehow. Suffice to say, Brian is a goddamned hero in my books, and I'd be honored to get him drunk on my dime for all the chuckles he has given me. On the other hand, you might disagree. My sense of humor may not tabulate with your own. If this is the case, sorry in advance.

The show should be available on Netflix. If not, it's on YouTube.
 

AgProv

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Update on the TV "haunting" in Seattle - I have approached the current owners of the premises, explained my interest, provided a link to this discussion, and (apologising for the fact they've probably heard this a lot since the TV show aired) - are they aware of any real or alleged "hauntings" in the premises since they took over? (Noted that I'd be surprised if they said "yes"...) As yet no response but I'll keep you posted.
 

Stormkhan

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There's a You Tube channel called Buzzfeed Unsolved which involves two young men - one a sceptic, one a 'believer' - who examine unsolved crimes, reputedly haunted places and bizarre incidents.
I must say that, being Buzzfeed, the production quality is great, the chemistry between the two is strong and highly amusing and, frankly, some of the phenomena they've experienced when 'investigating' haunts have been quite convincing in that nothing has been outrageously blatant. Nothing has convinced the sceptic but the believer still keeps trying. :)
 

Swifty

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Can we change the title of this thread - I've been told by Swifty.

Something like Ghost Hunting teams - scientific rigor or the lack of?
I haven't ever told or asked you to change the title of this thread, that was your idea .. I agree with the thread's sentiment because there is a lot of BS entertainment/charlatans and there always will be so I agree with your title change idea anyway.
 

Analogue Boy

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I’m fucking sick of the gaslighting technique of changing thread names and moving posts around. It’s just not worth posting anymore.
 

EnolaGaia

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I haven't ever told or asked you to change the title of this thread, that was your idea .. I agree with the thread's sentiment because there is a lot of BS entertainment/charlatans and there always will be so I agree with your title change idea anyway.
This seems to mean you (Swifty) endorse the idea of re-titling the thread - is that right?

If so - what's your suggestion for the new title?
 

Swifty

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This seems to mean you (Swifty) endorse the idea of re-titling the thread - is that right?

If so - what's your suggestion for the new title?
I haven't asked for the thread title to be changed mate .. I think its perfectly healthy and, in fact, to be encouraged that people remain sceptical about ghost investigators to be challenged .. that attitude keeps us on alert.

erm .. 'Ghost Invest people .. Stay Awake!' .. ? .. that could work .. something corny like that maybe? .. I'm happy with it to continue with the same title to be honest. It's serving its purpose. I couldn't give a shit either way to be honest.
 
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Comfortably Numb

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I haven't asked for the thread title to be changed mate .. I think its perfectly healthy and, in fact, to be encouraged that people remain sceptical about ghost investigators to be challenged .. that attitude keeps us on alert.
:badge:

Sure does. :omg:
 

EnolaGaia

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... I'm happy with it to continue with the same title to be honest. It's serving its purpose. I couldn't give a shit either way to be honest.
OK ... Fine ... Just checking ...
 

Swifty

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OK ... Fine ... Just checking ...
I'm not your Boss but I appreciate you asking anyway thank you .. if people want to disagree with the validity of ghost hunting experiments, that effects me at the level of 'oh hang on! .. you might have a good point?' ... I haven't got anytime for absolute believers or absolute disbelievers.
 

Comfortably Numb

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...that effects me at the level of 'oh hang on! .. you might have a good point?' ... I haven't got anytime for absolute believers or absolute disbelievers.
Well said.

No secret, that after intense consideration, I was comfortable (sic!) to highlight my granddaughter's recent experiences:

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/contact-from-beyond-the-grave.63685/post-1965377

There have been further, 'anomalies' past couple of days and later, I hope to have copy of a video taken.

Will assuredly be made available and added to the mix!

Since that initial posting, personally it has required a reset of previous conceptions.

The last thing you ever want to do here, is dismiss what you don't believe is possible.

Are you absolutely sure?

I write and send this on my phone, knowing it will be received within seconds, by subscribers worldwide.

Given that is insanely possible....
 

Comfortably Numb

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I’m fucking sick of the gaslighting technique of changing thread names and moving posts around. It’s just not worth posting anymore.
Do not despair Amigo, for 'tis written in the stars...

"There is nothing permanent except change". - Heraclitus

Thank you for inspiring myself to find an uplifting quote - that one's a stoater! :cynic:
 

Yithian

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I’m fucking sick of the gaslighting technique of changing thread names and moving posts around. It’s just not worth posting anymore.
I've only just woken up, but somebody has to address this even if it means a very much unwanted confrontation.

1) The title of this thread has not been changed since it was started.

2) If it were gaslighting, we would try to pretend that the thread title had never changed. There is no secrecy, because it has been stated several times that it will happen.

3) There is a whole sub-forum devoted to Website Issues for members to discuss technical issues relating to the management of the board, but--as last time--you prefer to post your complaints across multiple threads. It's childish and you must stop. I mean this is the sense that we'd much prefer that you stop it, but, if necessary, we will.

4) Last time you got irritated by the way the moderators had moved/merged/retitled threads, we did our best to be conciliatory because those of us who know you (as far as anybody can know anybody electronically) like you; if you were unknown to us, we'd have likely just ignored you, deleted your posts and later ended up banning you . If this issue is really winding you up, you've either a) lost your sense of proportion or b) got other issues in your life that are bubbling over into your interactions here.

If I were you, I'd take a break.

I honestly expect you to now storm off in a cloud of expletives, but there's no sense in our tiptoeing around the issue: you either value the place enough to stay in spite of a few irritations or you don't--I hope the former is the case.

If you have a complaint, post it in Website Issues and it will be addressed properly.
 

Naughty_Felid

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This seems to mean you (Swifty) endorse the idea of re-titling the thread - is that right?

If so - what's your suggestion for the new title?
It's tricky - I think ghost hunting and the lack of applied scientific methods doesn't just apply to the TV shows, but also Youtube groups, podcasters, writers, etc. I've tried to steer this thread in that direction as I'm critical and dismissive of a lot of what goes for ghost hunting these days.

So why not stick this discussion in the other ghost hunter thread?

Well, some ghost hunters like Swifty feel passionate about what they do and I tend to support some of the ghost hunting communities myself. I can see a place for posting about upcoming ghost hunts and findings, a place Swifty and others can post stuff without negative old bastards like me having a pop at them.

Then another place we can talk about what actually is being carried out by current ghost hunters. the validity of equipment. Abductive reasoning or the lack of. The lack of background research into a place. The list is endless.

Swifty gets pissed off because I moan about the current youtube ghost hunters and my belief that they are pretty much clueless. I get pissed off as they just play right into the hands of the Skepitcs and make everybody interested in the subject of hauntings look like idiots.
 

Swifty

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It's tricky - I think ghost hunting and the lack of applied scientific methods doesn't just apply to the TV shows, but also Youtube groups, podcasters, writers, etc. I've tried to steer this thread in that direction as I'm critical and dismissive of a lot of what goes for ghost hunting these days.

So why not stick this discussion in the other ghost hunter thread?

Well, some ghost hunters like Swifty feel passionate about what they do and I tend to support some of the ghost hunting communities myself. I can see a place for posting about upcoming ghost hunts and findings, a place Swifty and others can post stuff without negative old bastards like me having a pop at them.

Then another place we can talk about what actually is being carried out by current ghost hunters. the validity of equipment. Abductive reasoning or the lack of. The lack of background research into a place. The list is endless.

Swifty gets pissed off because I moan about the current youtube ghost hunters and my belief that they are pretty much clueless. I get pissed off as they just play right into the hands of the Skepitcs and make everybody interested in the subject of hauntings look like idiots.
I get pissed off about all sorts of things at the moment NFA, that's what a TIA can do to you ... but I don't get pissed off with sceptics unless they're completely closed minded .. wishy whashy hippie ghost investigators who think everything is paranormal are also annoying and less than useful ..

A quick test for you NF .. tell me the 'correct' way to use an EMF metre on ghost investigations (assuming ghost are real that is)? ..
 

GNC

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A quick test for you NF .. tell me the 'correct' way to use an EMF metre on ghost investigations (assuming ghost are real that is)? ..
Not taking the piss asking this, because I genuinely don't know - but why would a ghost show up on an EMF meter?
 

Swifty

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Not taking the piss asking this, because I genuinely don't know - but why would a ghost show up on an EMF meter?
A reading showing up on an EMF? .. not invented for ghost research but for electricians .. the K2 is 'industry standard' at the moment .. it will only demonstrate a presence of electrical magnetic fluctuation by illuminating a series of 1 to 5 lights to indicate how much of this perfectly natural stuff is going on. More often than not, that doesn't at all prove that there's ghost's about .. the most common fuck up is an investigator leaving his/her phone switched on and on flight mode which the EMF meter will peak at giving a false reading to the over excited and over suggestible .. the other mistake is to ignore your surroundings .. over head cover cables? .. underground power cables? .. again, you have to pay attention to these factors beforehand .. when you can confidently rule out human error while you're using this gadget (and others) .. then you might be on to something .. there's also a right and a wrong way to hold them in your hand .. most people twatting about on ghost invest point them at an area like they're a TV remote control .. they need to be held vertically towards a situation instead .. it's how they're designed.

 
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