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Ghosts: Clothed & Naked

Re: A Winnah!

If there reanimated,then what explains people saying they saw some ghosts dissapear? Surely not all can be produced by the brain?
 
Re: A Winnah!

MaxMolyneux said:
If there reanimated, then what explains people saying they saw some ghosts dissapear?

Excuse me, but I wasn't saying that all ghosts are actually re-animated corpses, but that perhaps we have to learn to differentiate between the two. And that "sheeted" entities may actually be the latter, since the "sheets" in question were originally understood as WINDING-sheets, used to clothe the dead prior to burial. There's obviously no need for ghosts to drag their shrouds around with them!

And:

Surely not all can be produced by the brain?

I never once said that they were. What I actually said was that some ghosts seem to be paranormally-induced mental constructs (which cannot be photographed) while others are likely humanoid-shaperd plasmas (which probably CAN be caught on film).
 
I know but how can we tell which ones might be reanimated and what are spirits or whatever they might be?

If it's the brain playing tricks then if someone with you can't see it, then maybe that explains that?
 
MaxMolyneux said:
I know but how can we tell which ones might be reanimated and what are spirits or whatever they might be?

Let's try it THIS way:

All of a sudden my friend Sam is standing in my apartment, the very image of life. Then I receive a telephone call telling me that Sam's just died. So my "hallucination" was likely paranormally triggered by Sam's passing.

Or let's assume that I see this humanoid-shaped "smoke ghost." I get the same 'phone call. So the man-shaped fog is likely to be Sam's actual spirit.

But let's say there's a knock on the door. I open it and here's Sam standing there - almost nearly skeletonized and dressed in the now- mouldy clothes in which he was buried. He smells a little rancid. Sam's been dead and buried for twenty years.

I receive a 'phone call informing me that Sam's grave has been vandalized. ( "Yeah," I think, "and from the INSIDE")

That's NOT a "ghost" of any type. That's Sam himself, his reanimated corpse, stopping by for a visit.
 
"It Only Grows on Human Corpses"

Many fictional and folkloric revenants seem to fall halfway between disembodied spirits and the reanimated dead.

Perhaps the classic example is the old tale of the drowned New England sea captain who appears in his former bedroom one night. The next day the percipient finds seaweed drying on the doorknobs.

And it's a exceptionally rare type of seaweed, it's afterwards learned, "which only grows on human corpses!"
 
And it's a exceptionally rare type of seaweed, it's afterwards learned, "which only grows on human corpses!"

:shock:

*puts down Japanese rice cracker*
 
I wonder if most of the people we walk past everyday are possibly reanimated dead but we don't know it.
 
Why Are Ghosts Seen Wearing Clothes?

Top paranormal researchers answer an age-old question

"A QUESTION THAT ghost researchers often are confronted with concerns the fact that ghosts are most often seen wearing clothes. It is also a question that skeptics raise to support their argument that ghosts are figments of the imagination. But it’s a perfectly legitimate question. If ghosts are human spirit energy, why do their manifestations include the manufactured convention of clothing? After all, clothes are not part of our bodies, our spirits or our “souls”.

Or are they? I posed this question to a number of respected paranormal researchers."

Full article with responses from researchers:
http://paranormal.about.com/od/ghosthun ... 042708.htm
 
Ghosts Gone Wild
Feminist parapsychologist and author Temperance Worth, in her treatise 'A Tomb of Her Own,' observed:

'Many girls, especially in less liberated eras, felt as though they were ghosts among men, for in many male dominated establishments they were often treated as though they were invisible.'

She goes on to postulate:

'The effect of such neglect often resulted in a restless spirit, so that when these girls at last found themselves emancipated from the mortal coil, and unbound by the girdles and brassieres that had kept their curves in check, the ability to indulge in acts of exhibitionist nudity without threat of societal rebuke was gaily acted upon, the once captive soul giving way to caprice.'
 
Article considering why aren't ghosts naked, including the tale of a skinnydipping ghost that reads more folklore than modern sighting:
https://www.applewoodmanor.com/stories/the-naked-ghost
It is not very often that you will hear of a naked ghost. Although a lot of skeptics will point out that all ghosts should be completely unclothed. As they put it: “If a ghost isn’t barefoot, it means that shoes have souls, too!”


For me, that argument is lost against the stories of hauntings throughout time. The power that can bind one’s spirit to the earth after death defies earthly reason. Thus, to the believer, it is perfectly logical, that a ghost may appear in any form or attire that it chooses or that is cursed upon him or her. If you don’t believe me, drive to Craven Street Bridge. It is only 2.5 miles from Applewood Manor and if you go in the early evening hours on a hot day of summer and you are likely to see a naked boy running alongside your car only to disappear before he can cross to the end of the bridge.


Most haunting spirits appear to do so because of their tragic or untimely death–or because they died before they could complete something of great importance. It seems that revenge or unfinished business tends to compel one’s soul to return to the site of the offending death.


Sometime in the early 1900s on a hot summer day, a group of young boys decided to cool off in the French Broad River. It was before bathing suits, so they stripped down and jumped in the water wearing nothing but their birthday suits. They were playing and laughing, not aware that they were floating further and faster down the river than usual. The problem was that storms upriver had created dangerous undercurrents and the French Broad was flowing more swiftly. Time passes quickly when you are having fun, and they were surprised by the fading light as the sun began going down. The river had taken them close to the pilings of the Craven Street Bridge and dangerous rapids. And that is when they noticed that one of their group was missing.


They searched and searched for their missing friend. One of the boys ran for help. Neighbors added to the search efforts and boats and lanterns were used to light up the river. They never found him nor his remains. Searchers surmised that the French Broad’s powerful undercurrents around the rocks and pilings captured the swimmer—holding him down while the rapids pounded and dragged him to his death. Eventually, they gave up the search. It was not long after the search was called off that people began to report seeing a naked boy running across the bridge. It might have been a prank, except for what happened every time the boy was spotted. People would call out to the runner, but he never seemed to hear. Then, just as the runner got close to the end of the bridge, he would vanish—disappear into thin air! The poor boy could never get across the bridge.


Ghost stories have always been around. Folklore abounds with stories of hauntings and sightings. Most people believe they are made-up tales. But there is something different here. There are too many stories in a place filled with smart and intelligent people. Some people say it is different here because things can die slowly in these mountains of Asheville. They say there are powerful paranormal and energy vortexes in our mountains due to their quartz content including clear crystal quartz. And these forces have labeled Asheville as the most haunted place on the planet. Perhaps that difference—the mountain energy—is the thing that is keeping the soul of our naked spirit bound to the place of his death—the place that prevented him from returning home from his swimming adventure. Is it that he can never rest until he can cross the Craven Street Bridge to go home?
 
Some people say that Adventures of Superman actor George Reeves' ghost haunts his house. The interesting thing is that he was naked when he died (of a supposedly self-inflicted gunshot wound) but his ghost is dressed in a Superman outfit, and he carries a gun.

BTW, I can't think of a scarier concept than:
  • the ghost
    • of Superman
      • with a gun.
 
Some people say that Adventures of Superman actor George Reeves' ghost haunts his house. The interesting thing is that he was naked when he died (of a supposedly self-inflicted gunshot wound) but his ghost is dressed in a Superman outfit, and he carries a gun.

BTW, I can't think of a scarier concept than:
  • the ghost
    • of Superman
      • with a gun.
Wow, you're right - I just read up on that, and so many tenants in that house left because of George Reeves' ghost scaring them.
I think that big money can pay for big cover-ups.
 
Some people say that Adventures of Superman actor George Reeves' ghost haunts his house. The interesting thing is that he was naked when he died (of a supposedly self-inflicted gunshot wound) but his ghost is dressed in a Superman outfit, and he carries a gun.

BTW, I can't think of a scarier concept than:
  • the ghost
    • of Superman
      • with a gun.

As if the story of George Reeves' death wasn't mysterious enough without him turning into a ghost as well. Also: typecasting can be a terrible thing.
 
A quick Google search shows that “Why aren’t ghosts naked?” is a common line taken by skeptics. No surprise there and it’s a valid point.

Personally, when it comes to apparitions, I subscribe to the Stone Tape theory. We are seeing a ‘memory’ of a human who was killed suddenly/violently or who is embedded within a familiar building/former home and thus will ‘appear’ at times of change, e.g. when new owners move in. They are seen wearing clothes because they are essentially a video/photograph of a now-deceased human wearing what they were wearing when the Stone Tape memory was created. They are not living in any sense.

Poltergeists, on the other hand, are ‘conscious energies’ and able to interact with their environment. Whether or not they are wearing clothes is irrelevant unless ‘it’ chooses to materialise in which case we cannot trust what our eyes are seeing anyway.
 
My British Grandmother who had the sixth sense moved in with us when my family bought a large house.
She would hang the laundry in the mornings out in the yard, and mentioned how a man was 'bothering' her, he was standing under the grapevine watching her.
She told an elderly neighbor about this and described the man, turned out he had been living at this house with his mother, and had a fatal heart attack while standing under that grapevine.
The next morning my Grandmother went up to this man and explained to him that 'he was dead and had to move on'. After that he was gone and did not bother her again.
He was wearing clothes, but many of these lingering souls may not realize that they have passed on. At least that's what my Grandmother said.
 
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He was wearing clothes, but many of these lingering souls may not realize that they have passed on. At least that's what my Grandmother said.

I don't know if such beings as "ghosts" really "exist" but if they do this theory would fit quite well with the theory of the selflessness or "vacuity" (emptiness) of being. In other words it might be a matter of identity and self-consciousness.

Here goes the theory, as I understand it (for those who have never heard of this theory ; the others may skip this boring development and go directly to my conclusion) :

We, as human beings, are composite organisms. We cannot be reduced to any part of our body. We are not our hands. We are not our feet. We are this fragile conjunction of everything.

Yet, this thing we regard as our body is not stable. It undergoes endless changes : our looks change (I was far cuter when I was a 10 year old boy than now), and the basic components of our bodies change all the same (at each instant some of our cells die, and some are born). Therefore, if we seek something "material" to define what we are "in essence", we cannot find any stable, eternal substance. Even worse, this physical body of ours is not really ours since it is made of "external material". My impressive physique :p did not pop up out of nowhere ! Without the T-bone steak I ate yesterday, I would not have these robust fibers proudly contracting within my biceps ! To sum up, the matter composing what I regard as "my" body has already lived in a cow some time ago. And before then, it was part of a daisy in the fields. So how can I speak of myself as external and independant of the rest of the world when my muscles come from cows and chicken, my hairs from fish and chips and when the tiny pieces of skin I discarded a few days ago are already the bread and butter of small mites ? Physically, there is thus no eternal self, nor eternal "other". We belong to a larger picture, like water is part of the sea, or better, like a wave, although displaying a definite shape, is never different from the water of the sea it belongs to.

So, if our essential self is not to be found in our body, perhaps should we seek it in the "immaterial" sphere ? Could we be defined by our thought or "spirit" ? That's a common idea. But does it stand analysis ? The stream of our thoughts is no more stable than our physical bodies. Our feelings, such as likes and dislikes, do change over time. What we delighted in when we were children is often different than what we enjoy now. What mattered then is different from what matters now. And most of us have no clue about what we will feel two or three years from now. Will we be happy, or sad ? And yet, we feel different from this nasty neighbour or colleague. He likes strawberries, while I hate plums. Since we are different, isn't it proof that we exist as different entities ?

The issue is that whatever we think of doesn't really belong to us. Would we be able to read if nobody ever taught us the alphabet ? Would we believe in Karl Marx, Jesus, Donald Trump, if we had never heard of them ? What would we think of the word "red" if we were born blind in a world of darkness ? Whatever we think has an external origin. What would our thoughts be like if nobody had ever taught us any language ? So, our thought might very well be limited to what we have learned througout our lives. Although, in the way they manifest, they are unique to us, we owe the rest of the world for them. We inherited them from the "outside". So the consciousness we take as our ego, is also largely interdependant with the rest of the world. It is not an island, untainted by the world. It's part of it. Again, like the wave on the ocean is a single wave, but essentially made of simple, "basic", water, common to the rest of the sea.

Basically, those who follow this way of thinking conclude that what we take for our ego is perfectly void of essential, everlasting nature. Although it does "exist", it is only a transitory phenomenon. What makes it tangible is our own belief that it exists, our own faith and sense of purpose.

Hence my conclusion:

If what we are is simply a projection of what we believe we are, why should a "ghost" be naked ? Would anybody ever project himself as a naked person (I mean, outside the specific context of weird or erotic dreams) ? Especially since nowadays, we rarely ramble naked.

On the contrary, looking at ancient art and portraits, notice how the artist often took pains at displaying fine silks and ribbons, at showing off the medals and jewellery sported by his models. Most people then, wanted to be remembered with their clothes on, because these clothes precisely told a message about who they were and how important and precious they were.

So, if ghost do exist, wouldn't they try to exist as how they envisionned themselves ? And if they exist, isn't it because they keep believing in themselves ?
 
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This is a question that came to me whilst reading another thread (like it does)

Why do ghosts wear clothes ?

Is everything on earth duplicated in an unseen realm?

You would think that clothes being a physical and inanimate item ghosts would (if they appeared in human form) would be naked

So here am I in my working from home clothes (my scruffs) if I was to die in my office chair would what I am wearing now be (if I became a ghost ) be my permanent outfit for life?
 
Thanks for merging this, it's a question we will never really get an answer to the stone tape theory sounds good but does not account for ghosts who appear to communicate with the living. as guess it's just like the tall Irish fairy told the guy who saw him (who questioned his size)

"We appear however we want to appear"
 
My view on this, posted elsewhere, is that if a ghost becomes self-aware enough to realise it doesn't need clothes, it is self-aware enough to realise it doesn't need a body either, at which point it presumably ceases to be a ghost and shifts off somewhere else.
 
My view on this, posted elsewhere, is that if a ghost becomes self-aware enough to realise it doesn't need clothes, it is self-aware enough to realise it doesn't need a body either, at which point it presumably ceases to be a ghost and shifts off somewhere else.
That's a very good point, so what you are basically saying is the ghost does not know he\she is a ghost or dead but trapped in some dream like existence so he\she conquers up clothing based on what they feel comfortable in

As soon as they become aware they are dead they move on

It kind of chimes with other stuff that I have read
 
That's a very good point, so what you are basically saying is the ghost does not know he\she is a ghost or dead but trapped in some dream like existence so he\she conquers up clothing based on what they feel comfortable in

As soon as they become aware they are dead they move on

It kind of chimes with other stuff that I have read
Traditionally, ghosts were believed to appear in shrouds or winding-sheets, as seen in the famous engraving of John Dee raising the dead.
(Which I previously mentioned in 2006, to the delight of the poster who'd started the thread after thinking of that very image.)

In a ghost book I read years ago someone reported seeing what appeared to be the spirit of their late mother, who strangely had a mark or wound on her face.
This observer later discovered that after their mother's death, her face had been accidentally scratched or caught somehow by the people laying her out. Only a couple of people knew about this.
WELL spooky.
 
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