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Isn't there a weight/size ratio thing for insects and arachnids, meaning they can only get to a certain viable size?
PLEASE tell me there is.
PLEASE tell me there is.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Was it this programme?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/spiderman.shtml
(You can listen to it there)
Yes, there is a size limit to insects/spiders- it's to do with the way they breathe.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/spiderman.shtml
(You can listen to it there)
Yes, there is a size limit to insects/spiders- it's to do with the way they breathe.
A
Anonymous
Guest
There are reliably documented sp[iders that eat small birds of about finch/robin/sparrow type size. Now, what size is a newly-hatched chicken... ?
A
Anonymous
Guest
SFAIK, insect size is limited by the fact that they don't have lungs, but draw oxygen into their tissues through holes spaced around their bodies (spiracles IIRC): above a certain body-size they can't get enough oxygen to respirate. The giant-sized insects of previous geological ages were made possible by the fact that the atmosphere in those periods was more oxygen-saturated than since.poster ina coma said:
Dunno so much about arachnids, but given that those same oxygen-rich periods supported such things as scorpions the size of dogs (at least), I'd suspect that the same size limitations apply to them as to insects and for the same reasons.
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Arachnids have 'book gills' not spiracles.
Radio4 article as the mods aren't in a merging mood :hmph:
Radio4 article as the mods aren't in a merging mood :hmph:
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Anonymous
Guest
OK, so the same size limitations apply to them as to insects, for reasons that differ physiologically but have the same net effect.Caroline said:
[EDIT] Reading that sentence back, I'm not so sure it actually means anything.
[END EDIT]
A
Anonymous
Guest
ghosts of past threads....
There was a decent thread a while back called "giant Spiders of the Ukraine" or something along those lines, that had pretty good arguments about large insects and what limits them.
Perhaps a little "mod-tacular thread bumping" is in order?
Trace Mann
There was a decent thread a while back called "giant Spiders of the Ukraine" or something along those lines, that had pretty good arguments about large insects and what limits them.
Perhaps a little "mod-tacular thread bumping" is in order?
Trace Mann
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Bump
Big arachnid threads merged.
Big arachnid threads merged
.
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Anonymous
Guest
Honestly, a lot of you people are silly. Frightened of spiders? Why, exactley? I mean, they're small enough to fit in the palm of your hand. I can understand people being *wary* of the poisonous varieties, but come on, your common-or-garden spider is completely harmless.
Unless it happens across an UGLY, HAIRY, DISGUSTING FLY!
It's my opinion that house spiders perform a vital service, that of eating flies. Flies are vile and unhygienic, the maggots are repulsive and the whole species is just so damn ugly. So, let's give a nice big cheer to the spider, put it on the government payroll and let them keep their corner of the living room.
I live in Basingstoke in the UK, and we are subject to 'Basingstoke spiders'. These arachnids are legendary througout the district and are referred to with respect. Mostly they're around 2-3 inches, legs included, and they have heavy bodies and heavy legs. I like spiders
Oh, and BUMP, btw...
Unless it happens across an UGLY, HAIRY, DISGUSTING FLY!
It's my opinion that house spiders perform a vital service, that of eating flies. Flies are vile and unhygienic, the maggots are repulsive and the whole species is just so damn ugly. So, let's give a nice big cheer to the spider, put it on the government payroll and let them keep their corner of the living room.
I live in Basingstoke in the UK, and we are subject to 'Basingstoke spiders'. These arachnids are legendary througout the district and are referred to with respect. Mostly they're around 2-3 inches, legs included, and they have heavy bodies and heavy legs. I like spiders
Oh, and BUMP, btw...
A
Anonymous
Guest
I hate it when that happens...
Last night I went to bed rather late and had almost dozed off when I felt an almightly "thwack" of something landing on me. Felt like a ball bearing throw with a lot of force. Then the damn thing MOVED and I instantaneously transported to the door, flipped on the light switch, and saw a spider that made me scream. body: 20 cm across, 25 cm long, legs added in: ~50 cm long.
I was up late, needless to say, because after squashing him (her?) I had to change the sheets. Plus I laid awake, wondering if any of his siblings, cousins, aunts-by-marriage etc were around.
And I come on the MB this morning to find this thread. The flip side of serendipity, I guess!
Last night I went to bed rather late and had almost dozed off when I felt an almightly "thwack" of something landing on me. Felt like a ball bearing throw with a lot of force. Then the damn thing MOVED and I instantaneously transported to the door, flipped on the light switch, and saw a spider that made me scream. body: 20 cm across, 25 cm long, legs added in: ~50 cm long.
I was up late, needless to say, because after squashing him (her?) I had to change the sheets. Plus I laid awake, wondering if any of his siblings, cousins, aunts-by-marriage etc were around.
And I come on the MB this morning to find this thread. The flip side of serendipity, I guess!
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I'm sure a museum would have been proud of such a huge specimen, well over a yard across!Fallen Angel said:
Or did you mean millimetres, perhaps?!
Funny this thread should re-appear - I saw a huge spider here in Rynner Towers the other night, just as it disappeared behind the bookcase. (And no way was I going after it!)
But it raises the question of 'what does it live on?' There aren't many flies in here, so it'd need a web the size of a satellite dish to catch enough, but the only webs I've come across have been very small, just a few fine strands. Do spiders feed on anything else, like Ryvita crumbs perhaps!?
A
Anonymous
Guest
Aaaghhh! It's the giant crackers eating spiders from Mars!!
Actually yes I did mean millimeters, I can't think of what I was thinking of. Which I suppose makes it a measly, tiny little spider.
Except when it lands on you!:eek!!!!:
Actually yes I did mean millimeters, I can't think of what I was thinking of. Which I suppose makes it a measly, tiny little spider.
Except when it lands on you!:eek!!!!:
ok then! how bout this:- liverpool muesum have a cast of a prehistoric spider about 1-21/2 ft long, 1ft across* and they dont know if it is a male or female :eek!!!!: :cross eye
imagine finding one that big in your bath :eek!!!!: :cross eye
*not including the legs
and they dont know if it is a male or female :eek!!!!: :cross eye imagine finding one that big in your bath :eek!!!!: :cross eye
*not including the legs
A
Anonymous
Guest
Ah yes.
Megarachne.
They were just a little bigger than robber crabs, and were probably nearly as crunchy.
http://www.toyen.uio.no/palmus/galleri/montre/english/x509.htm
http://www.gedcasserley.saddleworth.net/html/megarachne_servinei.html
Zygon is probably right, by the way.
The carboniferous era was a time of high biomass, and damp forests; the CO2 level was relatively low, but the O2 level may have been high, allowing insects and arthropods to grow to giant size.
There is better evidence for the low CO2 than the high O2; if O2 gets too high it is absorbed by oxidation, respiration and combustion.
Perhaps because the rainforests were so wet they were able to resist combustion and elevate the oxygen level.
Megarachne.
They were just a little bigger than robber crabs, and were probably nearly as crunchy.
http://www.toyen.uio.no/palmus/galleri/montre/english/x509.htm
http://www.gedcasserley.saddleworth.net/html/megarachne_servinei.html
Zygon is probably right, by the way.
The carboniferous era was a time of high biomass, and damp forests; the CO2 level was relatively low, but the O2 level may have been high, allowing insects and arthropods to grow to giant size.
There is better evidence for the low CO2 than the high O2; if O2 gets too high it is absorbed by oxidation, respiration and combustion.
Perhaps because the rainforests were so wet they were able to resist combustion and elevate the oxygen level.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Ever notice how sticky random threads and little clusters of webs are? Spiders don't necessarily need great big webs to catch their food.
And plus, I'm sure spiders eat other insects than flies. I reckon they'll have a go at anything stuck to their silk. Look out for your hamsters, ladies and gentlemen...
And plus, I'm sure spiders eat other insects than flies. I reckon they'll have a go at anything stuck to their silk. Look out for your hamsters, ladies and gentlemen...
A
Anonymous
Guest
an unusual spider
To all:
The material on unusually large spiders has covered a number of particularly gargantuan types, but in somewhat atypical circumstances. There are cases, though, of relatively large spiders in more everyday situations. Even these, though, may have some unusual characteristics about them.
Walking south on Fairfield Avenue, at about 11:15 p.m., today, Tuesday, August 19, between Cedar Street and Stonybrook Road, we passed by a large wooded plot of land. On the curb, to the right of us, as we walked, was a large traffic sign.
As we passed the sign, I felt something brush my forehead. I was pretty much sure what it was, since we experience it a lot where we live. It felt like spider silk. During the summer, we often feel individual strands that spiderlings use like parachutes, to carry them on the wind. This, however, felt like more than one strand. I looked back to where I felt it. In the light of a passing car, I saw a genuinely large web. Starting about four feet up from the ground, it stretched up to more than six feet. It was anchored, on one side, on the traffic sign. The strands disappeared in the shadows on the trees. They may have extended even higher up. There seemed a break in the web, where I walked through.
I started brushing my hair more, to see if the spider that spun the web was on me. I called my wife over, to see the web. She looked closer, and found the spider still on the web, where it anchored onto the traffic sign. It appeared about as big as the first joint of my thumb, which is about one inch!
There are a number of spiders near where we live, jumping spider types and some others, but most of them are significantly smaller. A spider this size looked too big even to manage to stay on a web this lightly built. By the light of a flashlight, I took some pictures of the spider on its web. I felt a flash might be too strong, and wash out the web. A couple of these pictures are below. If you’re familiar with American signage, lettering and so on, you’ll be able to get an idea of the size of the spider.
During the day on Wednesday, August 20, we went back to the area of the sign, to see if we could get a good picture of the spider in the daylight. We found the web completely wrecked, and no sign of the spider. We felt that someone had come by, destroyed the web, and killed the spider.
Walking in the area on Thursday night, August 21, I felt compelled to light the way ahead of us, with the flashlight. My wife felt I was being foolish, but agreed. Shining the flashlight ahead, as we were approaching the sign, we saw what looked like the spider floating in midair. Coming closer, we saw that the spider was sitting in the middle of its web. It had, apparently, spun a web stretching from the sign, across a standard sized walkway, and to the branches of nearby brush. The criss-crossing inner part of its web appeared to be at least 20 inches across. We took a picture of this with a flash. This is included at the bottom, also.
It should be mentioned, too, that this treed area seems part of a larger, wooded swath through which run huge electrical line towers.
It has been suggested, in this thread, that radiation produced gigantic mutations near Chernobyl; does anyone know of any cases of unusually large spiders in areas near high tension electrical lines?
Julian Penrod
To all:
The material on unusually large spiders has covered a number of particularly gargantuan types, but in somewhat atypical circumstances. There are cases, though, of relatively large spiders in more everyday situations. Even these, though, may have some unusual characteristics about them.
Walking south on Fairfield Avenue, at about 11:15 p.m., today, Tuesday, August 19, between Cedar Street and Stonybrook Road, we passed by a large wooded plot of land. On the curb, to the right of us, as we walked, was a large traffic sign.
As we passed the sign, I felt something brush my forehead. I was pretty much sure what it was, since we experience it a lot where we live. It felt like spider silk. During the summer, we often feel individual strands that spiderlings use like parachutes, to carry them on the wind. This, however, felt like more than one strand. I looked back to where I felt it. In the light of a passing car, I saw a genuinely large web. Starting about four feet up from the ground, it stretched up to more than six feet. It was anchored, on one side, on the traffic sign. The strands disappeared in the shadows on the trees. They may have extended even higher up. There seemed a break in the web, where I walked through.
I started brushing my hair more, to see if the spider that spun the web was on me. I called my wife over, to see the web. She looked closer, and found the spider still on the web, where it anchored onto the traffic sign. It appeared about as big as the first joint of my thumb, which is about one inch!
There are a number of spiders near where we live, jumping spider types and some others, but most of them are significantly smaller. A spider this size looked too big even to manage to stay on a web this lightly built. By the light of a flashlight, I took some pictures of the spider on its web. I felt a flash might be too strong, and wash out the web. A couple of these pictures are below. If you’re familiar with American signage, lettering and so on, you’ll be able to get an idea of the size of the spider.
During the day on Wednesday, August 20, we went back to the area of the sign, to see if we could get a good picture of the spider in the daylight. We found the web completely wrecked, and no sign of the spider. We felt that someone had come by, destroyed the web, and killed the spider.
Walking in the area on Thursday night, August 21, I felt compelled to light the way ahead of us, with the flashlight. My wife felt I was being foolish, but agreed. Shining the flashlight ahead, as we were approaching the sign, we saw what looked like the spider floating in midair. Coming closer, we saw that the spider was sitting in the middle of its web. It had, apparently, spun a web stretching from the sign, across a standard sized walkway, and to the branches of nearby brush. The criss-crossing inner part of its web appeared to be at least 20 inches across. We took a picture of this with a flash. This is included at the bottom, also.
It should be mentioned, too, that this treed area seems part of a larger, wooded swath through which run huge electrical line towers.
It has been suggested, in this thread, that radiation produced gigantic mutations near Chernobyl; does anyone know of any cases of unusually large spiders in areas near high tension electrical lines?
Julian Penrod
A
Anonymous
Guest
further comments on unusual spiders
To all:
After the last post I placed about the spider whose web was attached to a traffic sign on Fairfield Avenue, we went back to look at it, in the daytime, but the web was gone. We figured someone had walked through it and torn it down. Several more times, we went by the sign, but there was no indication of a web or the spider. At about 11:45 p.m., while walking along Fairfield Avenue, about a block and a half's length up from the sign, near the nursing home, on the other side of the street, we again felt threads touching our face as we walked past another traffic sign! Examining it, we saw another web, hanging down from the sign, attached to the post it was attached to. A spider, essentially exactly like the other spider, only, perhaps, slightly smaller, was in the web, apparently consuming an insect. This web seemed to be constructed close to the ground, which would make sense, since the nearest tree trunk, to which it could attach, on the other side of the walk, was more than six feet away. The sign was underneath the tree's branches, but the tree, itself, was some distance away. We took a picture, using the flash on our camera. As soon as we took the picture, we suddenly heard a heavy rustling from above. It sounded like heavy wings. We thought we might have wakened some birds in the tree, but the wings sounded bigger than those of any birds we have seen. We left the area quickly. We don't necessarily believe that this is the same spider as the one we saw before, but we do find it curious that the same kind of spider as before would set up a web on the same kind of sign. We haven't seen spider webs attached to any trees or bushes, so far, only street signs.
Julian Penrod
To all:
After the last post I placed about the spider whose web was attached to a traffic sign on Fairfield Avenue, we went back to look at it, in the daytime, but the web was gone. We figured someone had walked through it and torn it down. Several more times, we went by the sign, but there was no indication of a web or the spider. At about 11:45 p.m., while walking along Fairfield Avenue, about a block and a half's length up from the sign, near the nursing home, on the other side of the street, we again felt threads touching our face as we walked past another traffic sign! Examining it, we saw another web, hanging down from the sign, attached to the post it was attached to. A spider, essentially exactly like the other spider, only, perhaps, slightly smaller, was in the web, apparently consuming an insect. This web seemed to be constructed close to the ground, which would make sense, since the nearest tree trunk, to which it could attach, on the other side of the walk, was more than six feet away. The sign was underneath the tree's branches, but the tree, itself, was some distance away. We took a picture, using the flash on our camera. As soon as we took the picture, we suddenly heard a heavy rustling from above. It sounded like heavy wings. We thought we might have wakened some birds in the tree, but the wings sounded bigger than those of any birds we have seen. We left the area quickly. We don't necessarily believe that this is the same spider as the one we saw before, but we do find it curious that the same kind of spider as before would set up a web on the same kind of sign. We haven't seen spider webs attached to any trees or bushes, so far, only street signs.
Julian Penrod
A
Anonymous
Guest
more information about what can be called traffic sign spide
To all:
Shortly after midnight of September 1, 2003, we were taking another evening walk, just like the one in which we discovered the first two spiders. It had started to rain slightly, so we decided to walk around the block, near our home. Ravine is the turn off near our home, to go around our block. At the intersection of Fairfield Avenue and Ravine, there is a large Stop sign. Curious to see if there were any other traffic sign spiders around, we checked it. There was a spider web handing from the lower edge of the sign, with a spider in the middle of it. Below is a picture of that spider. It seems the same breed as the ones we saw hanging from the yellow, diamond shaped road signs. We had been looking for other spider webs on traffic signs, but besides the red Stop signs and the bright yellow road signs, the rest in our neighborhood, for the most part, are speed limit or No Stopping Or Standing signs, and none of them have spider webs. Speed limit signs are white, No Stopping Or Standing signs are white and small. Road signs and Stop signs are bright yellow or red, and are large. We thought it might be the color, as well as the size that might be attracting spiders to them, since those seem to be the only signs they favor. We thought, too, that it might be because they are made with a special reflective substance, to make them more easily seen at night, but at least the speed limit signs also seem to be made reflective. We think it may only be the bright coloring, perhaps similar to flowers - that attract the insects they catch! - that attracts these spiders to the signs they build webs on.
Julian Penrod
To all:
Shortly after midnight of September 1, 2003, we were taking another evening walk, just like the one in which we discovered the first two spiders. It had started to rain slightly, so we decided to walk around the block, near our home. Ravine is the turn off near our home, to go around our block. At the intersection of Fairfield Avenue and Ravine, there is a large Stop sign. Curious to see if there were any other traffic sign spiders around, we checked it. There was a spider web handing from the lower edge of the sign, with a spider in the middle of it. Below is a picture of that spider. It seems the same breed as the ones we saw hanging from the yellow, diamond shaped road signs. We had been looking for other spider webs on traffic signs, but besides the red Stop signs and the bright yellow road signs, the rest in our neighborhood, for the most part, are speed limit or No Stopping Or Standing signs, and none of them have spider webs. Speed limit signs are white, No Stopping Or Standing signs are white and small. Road signs and Stop signs are bright yellow or red, and are large. We thought it might be the color, as well as the size that might be attracting spiders to them, since those seem to be the only signs they favor. We thought, too, that it might be because they are made with a special reflective substance, to make them more easily seen at night, but at least the speed limit signs also seem to be made reflective. We think it may only be the bright coloring, perhaps similar to flowers - that attract the insects they catch! - that attracts these spiders to the signs they build webs on.
Julian Penrod
A
Anonymous
Guest
Trawler said:
I saw a largish (4" long in the body) dragonfly in a spider's web. Or perhaps I should say I saw the carapace of a dragonfly, as I'm sure he was dead. A dragonfly can't compare to a hamster. But I'm sure that the dragonfly was larger than the spider.
Okay, I hope the dragonfly was bigger than the spider.
A
Anonymous
Guest
yet more comments on what can be called traffic sign spiders
To all:
September 19, at about 10:10 p.m., walking along Fairfield Avenue, in front of our house, we came on another spider apparently using a traffic sign to anchor their web to. This was bigger than any of the other such spiders we had seen, perhaps 1 1/2 inches wide. This spider's web stretched from the sign, which is placed on the grass lawn in front of our house, at least ten feet, to a telephone pole, on the curb. Anyone walking along the sidewalk would run right into the web. We did. It was when we went back, after feeling the silk on us, that we took the picture below, of the spider. When we returned, only about 35 minutes later, we found the web almost completely rebuilt.
Uncharacteristically, though, this spider anchored its web to a "No Stopping Or Standing" sign. Previously, all such spiders had had homes on Stop signs or street signs. These are usually large, at least 18 inches across, bright yellow or red, and reflective. The "No Stopping Or Standing" sign is no more than 12 inches across, white, and not very reflective.
I had thought that these spiders were choosing the other signs because they resembled flowers, and the spiders hoped to attract insects. My wife suggests that the spiders like the coolness of the metal, or maybe they like to be in a place lit by streelights. The Stop sign where we found the first spider, though, is in a darkened area. I wondered if, for some reason, it may be the metal itself that is attracting the spiders.
Julian Penrod
To all:
September 19, at about 10:10 p.m., walking along Fairfield Avenue, in front of our house, we came on another spider apparently using a traffic sign to anchor their web to. This was bigger than any of the other such spiders we had seen, perhaps 1 1/2 inches wide. This spider's web stretched from the sign, which is placed on the grass lawn in front of our house, at least ten feet, to a telephone pole, on the curb. Anyone walking along the sidewalk would run right into the web. We did. It was when we went back, after feeling the silk on us, that we took the picture below, of the spider. When we returned, only about 35 minutes later, we found the web almost completely rebuilt.
Uncharacteristically, though, this spider anchored its web to a "No Stopping Or Standing" sign. Previously, all such spiders had had homes on Stop signs or street signs. These are usually large, at least 18 inches across, bright yellow or red, and reflective. The "No Stopping Or Standing" sign is no more than 12 inches across, white, and not very reflective.
I had thought that these spiders were choosing the other signs because they resembled flowers, and the spiders hoped to attract insects. My wife suggests that the spiders like the coolness of the metal, or maybe they like to be in a place lit by streelights. The Stop sign where we found the first spider, though, is in a darkened area. I wondered if, for some reason, it may be the metal itself that is attracting the spiders.
Julian Penrod
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Bibliomancer
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You ought to have one of them by your curtains. That'll scare more than just the shite out of you, trust me.McAvennie said:Eek! That's what this thread needs! More pictures of scarily large spiders in domestic situations!
My fave is the Aussie Huntsmen by the curtain.
Scares the shite outta me but what the hey...
And these ones are harmless.
Try "as big as the palm of your hand" and "capable of drawing blood", and you'll have a typical "house spider" in Australia.Trawler said:
Then there's the Funnel-Web, which is a similar size, and there have been claims of one biting through leather boots. Oh, and it has the most noxious venom of any spider. (Please don't start that thing about harvestmen or Daddy-Longlegs, it's not true.)
Then, maybe, you'll understand why some of us are scared of them.
A
Anonymous
Guest
I really don't think it is in the realms of 'silly' - if you are confused as to why people find spiders frightening, then you know as much as your average arachnaphobe. Including me. I don't beleive for an instant that the two - inch long beastie on my garage light-switch can harm me - but I still go in in darkness. I know there isn't a rational reason for my fear, just as htose people who are afraid of enclosed spaces, open spaces, pigeons etc. but it still persists. And it's a pain in the @rse.
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Anonymous
Guest
I know what caused my fear...I was attacked (crawled upon) by a Garden Spider when I was so small that we were nearly the same size...:cross eye
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Anonymous
Guest
I know what caused mine too...a certain B-Movie "Giant Spider Invasion' (i think) that I was FORCED to sit through at school. I was 7.
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Ukranian Giant Lift-Shaft Spider...?
In one book that I've read (part of the 'unXplained' series of books... £2-5 from tesco sort of thing, if I recall correctly) there was an account of a very large, dog-sized spider/bug that lived in an elevator shaft in a block of flats.
It was photosensitive, and the story goes that it killed... That latter part makes me suspicious, but I don't suppose anyone has come across this? It would have been in the 80s-early 90s.
In one book that I've read (part of the 'unXplained' series of books... £2-5 from tesco sort of thing, if I recall correctly) there was an account of a very large, dog-sized spider/bug that lived in an elevator shaft in a block of flats.
It was photosensitive, and the story goes that it killed... That latter part makes me suspicious, but I don't suppose anyone has come across this? It would have been in the 80s-early 90s.