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Girl Pulls Ancient Sword From Lake In Sweden

James_H

James_H

And I like to roam the land
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May 18, 2002
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Girl, 8, pulls a 1,500-year-old sword from a lake in Sweden
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Do we have a thread for swords found in bodies of water? It is a common motif throughout European myth and legend (Excalibur, et al) and it seems to have been an indo-european religious/cultural practice to throw blades into the water.
 
I just hope she remembers that strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
 
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Eight-year-old kids walking in ponds and finding swords is no basis for a system of government.

/so much for supreme executive power deriving from a mandate from the masses
 
James_H said:
Weirdly, a girl of a similar age discovered a sword a in a lake about one year before.

Schoolgirl discovers mystery sword in same lake King Arthur's legendary Excalibur was thrown

This one definitely does not look ancient. More like one of those ones you can buy from a catalogue for goths.



Edit: a neo-pagan came forward to solve the mystery: he chucked it in in the 80s as an offering
https://allthatsinteresting.com/truth-behind-excalibur
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I have been known to break a knife and hurl the bits into a pond as a votive offering. I keep rubbish pen-knives I find around the place for this purpose (I know).
 
Knives found: My husband spent many years as a surveyor and has brought home knives found in the woods if they are decent culinary knives with good blades. We're pretty sure they're are items lost by deer hunters, but that hasn't stopped us from giving them nicknames like "murder weapon" and "murder weapon junior."
 
Coal said:
I keep rubbish pen-knives I find around the place for this purpose (I know).
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I maybe just about see the point in this practise- though, it's a bit edgy. I suppose it also hones your throwing skills, and cuts-down on surplus cutlery.

GerdaWordyer said:
We're pretty sure they're are items lost by deer hunters, but that hasn't stopped us from giving them nicknames like "murder weapon" and "murder weapon junior."
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That's rather disturbing- I do hope you haven't got a whole canteen's-worth of cleavers via this 'finders-keepers' approach.

ps does anyone else here remember the "farcical aquatic ceremony" being present as an audio loop on the final/inner locked groove of the Holy Grail LP record? I remember hearing this phrase played about a billion times through the window of the house (following an accidental lockout...it nearly wore my sapphire stylus away to nothing).

pps Hmm....why do I remember the phrase as "farcical sub-aquatic ceremony"? False memory from over 30yrs ago?
 
Ermintruder said:
I maybe just about see the point in this practise- though, it's a bit edgy. I suppose it also hones your throwing skills, and cuts-down on surplus cutlery.
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It's my spiritual self off the leash for a few minutes. The hurling of an edged weapon at the serpent of the unconscious. Or a votive offering to the same. Or a gift for the spirit of the pond. Or summat.
 
Coal said:
The hurling of an edged weapon at the serpent of the unconscious.
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That is so metaphysically-profound, especially for before 10am on a Monday.

And who's with me? What's the correct* Python Excalibur phrase??
  • farcical aquatic ceremony, or;
  • farcical sub-aquatic ceremony?
(* correct in the sense of being what's included in the locked scratch-groove at the end of the vinyl album. Users of BSR turntables with automatic tone-arm return mechanisms need not respond to this question- you're all dead to me)
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I'm trying to research the idea that throwing swords into water was a common ritual in various European societies. It seems like opinion is divided into two schools re why swords are so commonly found in water:

1) battles near water
2) 'religion and ritual'

Here are a couple of leads:

The Dedication of Roman Weapons and Armor in Water as a Religious Ritual

Through chance finds, formal excavations, looting, and dredging operations, several pieces of intact, fully functional Roman weapons and armor have been recovered from aquatic contexts in Gaul and Britain dating from the first century B.C.E to late first century C.E. Some scholars have attempted to explain the phenomenon as a series of accidental losses, while others allude to intentional deposition.[1]Although one cannot completely disregard accidental loss, the facts that military equipment was both expensive and heavily regulated and the veneration of water played an important role in Roman religion suggests that, in the majority of cases, gear found in water was a result of a conscious act, most likely of religious nature.
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Archaeologists discover prehistoric weapons on RSPB Scotland reserve

“This is the first discovery of this size from Argyll for many years. The items were recovered from what had once been a freshwater loch. It seems that they had been purposely broken and cast into the waters as part of a ceremony, most likely as offerings or gifts to the gods or goddesses of the time.
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It Is to the Water That It Must Return: An Inquiry into the Water Deposition of Swords in the Carolingian Period (ca. 750 – 1000 AD) in North-western Europe
[abstract only]

This thesis explores the deposition of swords in European rivers and wetlands during the Carolingian period. Finds of a similar nature have been thoroughly studied in Scandinavia and a scholarly discussion has been underway in Britain. Continental water-finds have been traditionally interpreted as casual losses and intentional deposition has been regarded as unlikely, given the Christian nature of the Frankish Empire. This thesis questions the traditional interpretation of continental water-finds and suggests an alternative explanation. Hundred twenty-nine swords are mapped geographically, spanning from the river Loire to the river Oder, to identify distribution patters that support the hypothesis of ritual deposition.
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‘A River of Knives and Swords’: Ritually Deposited Weapons in English Watercourses and Wetlands during the Viking Age
[abstract only]
This paper discusses the deposition of weapons in English rivers and wetlands during the Viking Age. Such finds have been extensively studied in Scandinavia but have rarely been academically discussed in Britain. It can be argued that the arrival of the Scandinavians in ninth- to eleventh-century Britain precipitated a marked increase in depositions of a ‘pagan’ nature. Despite deep-rooted, institutionalized Christianity having dominated England for some time, it is possible that pagan beliefs were dormant but not forgotten, with the Scandinavian arrival triggering their resurgence. Weapons form a large number of ritual depositions, with seventy deposits being mapped geographically to identify distributional patterns across the landscape. It is suggested here that ‘liminal’ depositions in Viking Age Scandinavia provide an interpretative model for these finds. Given the context of endemic conflict and territorial consolidation within which they may have been deposited in England, this material can shed new light on attitudes to landscapes subject to conflict and consolidation.
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Anyone got more?
 
Ermintruder said:
If such a limited quantity of beverage was all I managed to produce after two solid days of effort, I'd give up. And presumably no swords? Or tandems?
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Ah. I should have explained the (pre-comestible) coffee was this morning and the previous two days were fishing...that should be clear...sorry for the confusion. :p
 
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