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'Girt Dog': Thylacine Like Creature in Cumbria

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http://web.ukonline.co.uk/bransty/thylacine.html

Link is dead. See post below for the full text of the linked webpage.

Has anyone else heard of this report? Could a thylacine have been responsible for such a large amount of killing, and could it kill several hunting dogs that easily, considering they are generally thought to have been driven off the Australian mainland into Tasmania by the presence of dingoes?

This is interesting, considering the same quality has been attributed to the Queensland "panther", which is thought to be a living Thylacoleo (close relative of Thylacinus cynocephalus). Has the same effect (perhaps a pheromone of some sort?) ever been observed in a "normal" Thylacine?
Another queer attribute of the 'Girt Dog' was its effect on normal dogs. Fell sheepdogs would cower in its proximity, and refuse to follow its spoor. More proof of its diabolical nature, whispered the locals.

Also I find it quite interesting that the Thylacine's supposed method of killing and mutilating its prey closely resembles that of the Chupacabra. Could the Chupa be a surviving South American marsupial carnivore?
 
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Don't know about the "Girt Dog', but I've heard of a "Gurt Dog" around the Quantock area (a benign creature, I believe).

Also, not sure if this is related in any direct way, but I quote from 'Phenomena' by John Michell and Robert J.M. Rickard (1977):

'There are so few historical sources for this kind of thing (cattle mutilation) that we offer no apologies for referring readers to chapters 13 and 14 of Charles Fort's Lo! Fort was fascinated by the winter of 1904-5, during which time, against a background of ghosts and poltergeists, outbreaks of religious revivalism in Wales, and swarms of starnge aerial lights and airships, there ocurred wave after wave of dreadful attacks on animals. At Hexham, Northumberland, something was killing sheep nearly every night, sometimes on both sides of the River Tyne on the same night. That winter there was more slaughter at Gravesend in Kent and Badminton in Gloucestershire, involving 'terrible losses for poor people'. Yet worse was to come.
'In May 1910, something began killing six or seven sheep a night, biting into their necks and sucking their blood, but leaving their bodies untouched. In 1874, sheep were killed in a vampiric manner around Cavan, Ireland; as many as thirty a night had their throats ' cut and blood sucked, but no flesh eaten'. Wolves were blamed (the last wolf in Ireland was killed in 1712) and finally a dog was shot. This time the killings continued in the same region. Something killed over sixty sheep in two nights at Guildford and Windsor in the SURREY PUMA country. At Llanelly in 1919 something entered hutches and broke the backs of rabbits. In 1925 a strange black animal 'of enormous size' tore sheep apart, terrifying the Edale region of Derbyshire into fears of WEREWOLVES. Cases occur to this day.'
 
I've got a lot of respect for Richard Freeman (once went huntin' pumas out in North Yorkshire with him dont'y'know), but I think he's reaching here. Striped vaguely canine critters sound like hyenas to me. We know they were in fairly early C19th menageries, because they were used in the investigation of the bones at Kirkdale (N Yorks) 'Hyena Cave'.
 
Hmmm yes, I hadnt thought of a hyena, but it sounds possible:
It was like a tawny-coloured dog, with dark, tiger stripes. quite unlike anything he had ever seen before.
That could just as easily be a hyena as a thylacine. And hyenas were in part responsible for some of the cattle mutilations attributed to the Nandi "bear". Although I believe the species responsible was the spotted rather than the striped hyena, the spotted being by far the commoner species and the one which was known in Europe as early as the Romans - so would a hyena have been recognised in Cumbria in 1810? Possibly not:
Remember there was no television or radio then and many people were illiterate, especially in the countryside. Most people knew nothing of natural history beyond their own country, hence the confusion the 'Girt Dog' caused.
However, what I would most like to know is whether a thylacine, hyeana or any other large carnivorous species really habitually drinks the blood of the large mammals it kills and leaves alone the flesh, which seems like a bizarre and very wasteful form of predation - hence my cynicism towards the mutilations attributed to the Chupacabra. But if any real life animal does take the blood and leave the flesh alone, then cryptids doing it becomes more likely.

(Blood, brain or organ removal and ignoring the rest of the carcass seems quite common in cryptids, from Chupa and the Girt Dog to the Nandi "bear" and the Brazilian Mono Grand. A conspiracy? Looks suspiciously like the work of human agency to me.)
 
It's great to see these old threads blinking in the sunlight. Hopefully a few of them will be picked up again.

But if any real life animal does take the blood and leave the flesh alone, then cryptids doing it becomes more likely.

Thylacines were believed to do this at one time, but it's not true it was only ever an academic/urban myth.
 
oldrover said:
It's great to see these old threads blinking in the sunlight. Hopefully a few of them will be picked up again.
Definitely. I've read most of the threads on this board, but so many I'd forgotten. A few have already had new comments added - always good to stir the pot from time to time :).

Interesting lexi-link (or regional variance) - in the West Country Black Dogs are often called Gurt Dogs - Gurt meaning massive or strong. Does it mean the same, or at least have the same connotation in the far North West?
 
I think it was your article that started this thread off back in 2002.
 
Greyhounds are often brindled or striped, much more likely than an out of place Thylacine IMO.
 
The animal didn't act like a dog or kill like a dog and dogs were afraid of it.
 
lordmongrove said:
The animal didn't act like a dog or kill like a dog and dogs were afraid of it.

ok but I give a 0.5 out of 10 chance of a thylacine killing livestock in 19c cumbria
 
0.5 is far too high for a thylacine in 1810. It's far, far too early, for one thing. Secondly the behavior, at least the little that's mentioned on this thread, is totally wrong. Thylacines weren't rampaging stock killers, nor did they habitually go around killing large dogs.

Again the actual characteristics of the animal are ignored because the myths make it a better character for a story.
 
Here's the full text of the article cited in post #1 (and for which the link is long dead).

A Cumbrian Thylacine?

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Did an out of place thylacine once roam the Ennerdale fells? An article by Richard Freeman, published in the cryptozoological magazine 'Animals & Men' suggests that this may have been the case, and that the beast may have been responsible for the legend of the 'Girt Dog'.
The article is reproduced here, with the permission of the editor, Jon Downes, followed by CryptoCumbria's comments.

-------------------------------

THE CASE OF THE BRITISH THYLACINE
by Richard Freeman

In the spring of 1810, a bizarre series of livestock killings began. Over the next six months, a mystery predator cut a bloody swathe through Cumberland. This creature was never identified, but became known as the Girt Dog of Ennerdale. Though often quoted, this chapter In British animal mysteries is one of the most cryptic and obscure. On re-reading the tales recently, I found a strange thread that no-one (to my knowledge) has picked up on before. The saga of the Girt Dog may be even odder than anyone has ever realised: and the 'Dog' itself may be a doubly Fortean beast.

The tale began when the corpse of a half eaten ewe was discovered on the fells above Ennerdale Water. The victim was soon followed by others, as the culprit killed evey night. Farmers and shepherds patrolled the hills, but the creature remained unseen.

Such was the quantity and ferocity of the attacks; that natural predators, like foxes, were discounted. As local farmers became worried, posses of men and dogs scoured the area. But the beast evaded them. It never attacked the same flock on consecutive nights. Its uncanny elusiveness caused superstitious ramblings among the villagers. More fuel was added to this growing fire when the beast began to show some disturbing eating habits. Many carcasses were left mostly uneaten, but the blood had been drained from their wounds, as a vampire would do.

Finally, someone caught a glimpse of the creature. A shepherd watching his flock at dawn saw the killer, but its description brought even more confusion. It was like a tawny-coloured dog, with dark, tiger stripes. quite unlike anything he had ever seen before.

The Dalesfolk argued over the identity of this strange beast: as to whether it was a wolf, or a lion, or a tiger? Some even believed it to be a supernatural entity, touting its love of blood as 'proof'. Around this time the name 'Girt Dog' was coined. Another queer attribute of the 'Girt Dog' was its effect on normal dogs. Fell sheepdogs would cower in its proximity, and refuse to follow its spoor. More proof of its diabolical nature, whispered the locals. Hunting dogs were brought in to replace the sheepdogs and a pack was collected to hunt down the killer. After days of hunting, the pack finally tracked down the 'Girt Dog' and forced it to break cover. It tried to run. but the hounds soon caught up with it. the 'Girt Dog' turned on its pursuers with unbelievable savagery, killing several hounds swiftly. The rest at the pack scattered in terror and the monster escaped. Obviously no normal dog could have caused such a bloody rout.

The farmers changed tactics and littered the hillsides with poisoned sheep cadavers. The'Girt Dog', however, disdained carrion, preferring to rend and slay amidst the living flocks. As the bodycount rose, rewards were offered for anyone who could end this reign of terror. Once a group of armed men had the beast encircled. The creature charged at one of the men, who lost his nerve and threw himself aside. Unfortunately. an elderly man, Jack Wilson, who was also quite deaf, was collecting firewood close by. The 'Girt Dog' ran straight through his legs and bowled him over. Jack swore that it was more like a girt lion than a girt dog.

Professional huntsmen were called in. but had no more luck. The 'Girt Dog' led many on a wild goose chase. Up to 100 mounted men with packs of dogs failed to catch it. Finally. on September l3th 1810, the 'Girt Dog' was surrounded and shot. Incredibly it escaped despite its wound and ran towards the River Ehen. Here it was found cooling its injury and ran once more to Eskat (Eskett) Wood. where it made its last stand. Flushed from cover, mortally wounded, the huntsmen's dogs closed in and tore it to shreds.

What little was left of the bizarre predator was sent to Keswick Museum, and mounted as a specimen. Sadly, Keswick Museum closed in 1876 and no record was kept of what happened to the exhibits. So ends this weird tale. What are we to make of it? well, we have some intriguing clues.

The 'Girt Dog' displayed some characteristics which were very unlike any dog. All the witnesses described it as being striped. There are no striped dogs, but this animal must have sufficiently resembled a dog to have been given the name 'Girt Dog'. The animal drank its victim's blood, while often leaving the flesh untouched. All canids eat the meat of their prey. It terrified ordinary dogs, and easily killed hunting dogs, even when outnumbered.

Only one animal could account for these descriptions - the Thylacine. The striped coat and blood drinking behaviour of the marsupial wolf is well known. Tasmanian hunters described how it could bite through a dogs skull with ease and Sir Richard Owen described it as "the most fell beast of prey". This hypothesis may seem fantastic at first, but let us examine some facts.

The thylacine did not suffer from serious persecution until the 1860s. In 1810, it was still a common animal. In Tasmania, where many were kept in captivity, there were no laws governing zoos at the time and although there were only a few sedentary zoos in Britain in the 1800s; there were many travelling zoos. These appalling institutions consisted of caged animals being carted around Britain by horse-drawn carriage. This must have been a terrible ordeal for both the exhibits and the horses.

Perhaps the best known of these was the infamous Wonbwell's Travelling Menagerie. As well as the stock-in-trade such as bears, lions, tigers and monkeys; Wonbwell's also exhibited rarer animals, such as snow leopards. It is even thought that they possessed a gorilla, without even knowing it! Apparently mis-labelled as a chimp. It would have been the first gorilla in Britain, (gorillas were as unknown as yetis until the 1840s). Zoological accuracy was not a high priority in these establishments. It is not out of the question that a travelling zoo had thylacines in its collection, and that one of them had escaped in the Lake District in 1810. Remember there was no television or radio then and many people were illiterate, especially in the countryside. Most people knew nothing of natural history beyond their own country, hence the confusion the 'Girt Dog' caused.

Enquiries at the new Keswick Museum drew a blank. As did those at other Lake District museums, Libraries and Historic Societies. No records of the whereabouts of the stuffed specimens were kept. One hopes that the museums stock was sold on, rather than just thrown away.

Very little of the 'Girt Dog' would remain now, but it isn't beyond all hope that somewhere, in some dusty basement or attic, is still a skull labelled 'wolf' or 'dog', which has too many incisors and opens far too wide to be either species.


CryptoCumbria's comments

There actually IS a stuffed Thylacine specimen in a Cumbrian museum. It is in the museum at Kendal. However, it is highly unlikely to be anything to do with the 'Girt Dog' tale. It is in excellent condition and has certainly not been torn to shreds by dogs at any time in its existence.

The staff in the museum when I visited were unable to offer any details about the history of the exhibit. If anyone reading this happens to visit Kendal Museum in the near future, perhaps they could make enquiries and let us know if the staff can offer any more information about their thylacine exhibit.

SALVAGED FROM: https://web.archive.org/web/20020606004641/http://web.ukonline.co.uk/bransty/thylacine.html
 
In all fairness this article dates back to at least 2002, and accurate information on the species was pretty much non-existent back then. We don't know much more now except most of what was thought then was plucked out of the air.
 
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