Global Warming & Climate Change: Humans' Reactions & Responses

Cochise

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..it is nearly impossible to make something of such good quality now. ..

That is one of those 'don't make them like they used to do' sayings.

I respond 'Bollocks',

We can, but for most of the time there is no need to. All that belongs to the days of 'wages five bob a week and beer at a penny a pint'.

INT21.
No we can't. I volunteer in the 'leisure railway' industry and there are things we just cannot make any more because we have lost the skills. Sure there are modern equivalents, but they tend to last 10 years instead of a 100. A bit like the Romans could make far better concrete than we can (although we are on the verge of rediscovering the secret). Roman concrete happily lasts 2000 years - ours lasts about 50. They are currently knocking down some 60's flyovers in Liverpool because the concrete had deteriorated enough to make them unsafe.
 

INT21

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Cochise,

Here we have the Keighley and Worth Vally Railway. (KWVR) and they can re-build locos to the same standard as the original. Same with rolling stock. As can the National Railway Museum at York.

Agreed we no longer have boiler building places and foundries in every town as we did back then, but we still have some. And there are people still carrying the fire (excuse pun). Machinists, blacksmiths etc.

It's niche work, but we can still do it.

And coming up to date, we have people who can back engineer computer chips, layer by layer.

So we can do it, but very few of us need to.

INT21.
 

Cochise

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Cochise,

Here we have the Keighley and Worth Vally Railway. (KWVR) and they can re-build locos to the same standard as the original. Same with rolling stock. As can the National Railway Museum at York.

Agreed we no longer have boiler building places and foundries in every town as we did back then, but we still have some. And there are people still carrying the fire (excuse pun). Machinists, blacksmiths etc.

It's niche work, but we can still do it.

And coming up to date, we have people who can back engineer computer chips, layer by layer.

So we can do it, but very few of us need to.

INT21.
No. No they don't. Which is why the NRM won't restore certain very original vehicles precisely because they cannot replicate the original materials and construction methods. They can't even replicate Green Arrow's cylinder block from the 1930's. We simply no longer have the skills or the equipment.
 

Mythopoeika

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No. No they don't. Which is why the NRM won't restore certain very original vehicles precisely because they cannot replicate the original materials and construction methods. They can't even replicate Green Arrow's cylinder block from the 1930's. We simply no longer have the skills or the equipment.
This is pretty much true. Making a boiler for a train these days is close to impossible because the skills have been lost and the tools forever gone.
I remember watching a restoration program (Salvage Squad) on TV a few years back. It was a team assembled by Suggs.
They managed to find someone who knew how to assemble a boiler for a locomotive. Finding the tools was almost impossible. They had to make do with what they could lash together. It was touch and go when they fired it up - because they didn't know whether or not it would explode.
 

INT21

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I will accept the problem of the machinery being almost gone.

But just down the road from me we have Byworth Engineering. They make boilers. And some pretty big ones. Much bigger that the ones used in locos.

Don't forget that steam is still used in industry. People still need to boilers. Power stations still use boilers.

So the skills are still there. And are likely to be for a very long time.
 

Mythopoeika

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I will accept the problem of the machinery being almost gone.

But just down the road from me we have Byworth Engineering. They make boilers. And some pretty big ones. Much bigger that the ones used in locos.

Don't forget that steam is still used in industry. People still need to boilers. Power stations still use boilers.

So the skills are still there. And are likely to be for a very long time.
The old boilers were made from sheet and pinned and riveted. The big ones made today are made using different techniques - welding, mostly. Also, machining from cast blocks of solid metal.
 

INT21

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I suspect it is really all down to economics. No one wants to spend the money.

Net time I'm at York NRM I will inquire into the Green Arrow thing. Probably in the next month.

There are many shapes you can't machine from the solid. Castings still have a purpose.

I am having to make the cylinders for my steam loco from the solid though. The castings cost too much.

Fortunately it's just lathe work.
 

JamesWhitehead

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We simply no longer have the skills or the equipment.
Absolutely. Replicating the recording-technology of a century ago has proved much more problematic than anyone would reasonably imagine.

We all know the companies recorded on "wax" but they regarded their own as a company secret! Most photographs of the period stay on the artists' side of the wall, separating artists and technology. Branching-horns were used to try to focus the sound-waves on the wax. One, I think, survives and it is so compact that historians believe it was used to record a self-accompanied ukelele singer. Shellac of record-manufacture quality has become a lost-art in just over half-a-century. Attempts to replicate acoustic recordings face all these challenges.

Conservation has never been a feature, still less a priority, of businesses - even those whose business may seem to be the preservation of the past! It is reckoned that a whole era of silent films, once past their best, were melted down to make products for aeroplane manufacture. :plane:

It takes more than the will to do it, or the money. Once an industry dies, the craft skills go with it. Those were Trade Secrets and never written down. :wear:
 
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maximus otter

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Last night, Andrew Neil took Extinction Rebellion spokesman Zion Lights to task over her organisation’s alarmist claims and anti-scientific arguments.

When Neil posed the reality that in order to achieve Extinction Rebellion’s six year target, all flying would have to come to an end...Lights did not deny it...
A founder of the Extinction Rebellion protests has been accused of “blind hypocrisy” after it was revealed she had flown to Central America for a luxury holiday despite leading calls for a “rapid reduction” in air travel.

Gail Bradbrook clocked up 11,000 air miles as she flew to Costa Rica for a week’s £2,500 stay at the New Life Iboga retreat then a week touring the tropical paradise.

Bradbrook, who has posted about the need to ground aircraft, proudly put pictures on Facebook during her 2016 Costa Rica jaunt — which left a carbon footprint of 2.6TONNES of CO2 emissions. One photo was of her in a flowery dress at the beach taking snaps of monkeys.

She revealed that her holiday of self-discovery included taking hallucinogenic drugs that inspired her calling “to get with the spirit of the otter”. "

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10123037/extinction-rebellion-founder-central-america-luxury/

This "otter" suggests that she gets with the spirit of the hedgehog, and STFU.

maximus otter
 

maximus otter

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Lewis Hamilton - net worth £224M - has interrupted his schedule of flying his private jet between his £18M Kensington mansion and his £10M apartment in Monaco, to cut about in fume-belching racing cars, in order to educate us peons:

"Adopting a vegan diet is the "only way to truly save our planet", Lewis Hamilton has said.

In a thoughtful post on Instagram, the F1 star described the world as a "messed up place" with leaders who are "either uneducated or don't care about the environment at all". "

https://news.sky.com/story/lewis-hamilton-says-vegan-diet-only-way-to-save-our-planet-11836393

maximus otter
 

INT21

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Are they taking readings from fake thermometers as well as posting the results in fake scientific journals ?
 

INT21

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I had a fake failure of all my crops (excluding apples) this year.

Noting fake about the disappointment , nor the thought that if, in an earlier time, I had been relying on them to survive through the winter, I would be in deep doo-doo. (which, naturally I would spread upon the land and use as nutrients)

I put it down to long periods of low light, and the ground not getting warm enough.

First complete failure ever.
 

Ogdred Weary

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I had a fake failure of all my crops (excluding apples) this year.

Noting fake about the disappointment , nor the thought that if, in an earlier time, I had been relying on them to survive through the winter, I would be in deep doo-doo. (which, naturally I would spread upon the land and use as nutrients)

I put it down to long periods of low light, and the ground not getting warm enough.

First complete failure ever.
Why a "fake" failure and not simply a failure?
 

maximus otter

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"Extinction Rebellion isn’t about the Climate"

"...I’m here to say that XR isn’t about the climate. You see, the climate’s breakdown is a symptom of a toxic system of that has infected the ways we relate to each other as humans and to all life. This was exacerbated when European ‘civilisation’ was spread around the globe through cruelty and violence (especially) over the last 600 years of colonialism..."

Stuart Basden, XR co-founder

maximus otter
 

RaM

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Climate change anxiety is now a thing. Anyone wants to set up a help-line?
Yey I can do that, working on how to justify going everywhere by private jet as we speak.
 

INT21

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My crop failure was fake in the US, but real enough in my garden.

Mind you, everything is fake in the US these days, even the poli...... Now stop that immediately, bad fingers.

It's the muscle memory, y' know.

;)
 
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We had another link to the same, or a closely related website, from someone else recently. Naming no names. Since the claims made then were also of an extravagant nature, my spidey senses started tingling, so I checked out sources. Apparently, it links back to the Lyndon LaRouche organisation. A politician for whom the nomenclature, 'wingnut', might have been minted.

The very largest pinches of salt may be required.
LaRouche supporter still get into top positions and this guy can certainly affect Climate and Land Use policy. LaRouche pulls the strings from beyond the grave.

William Perry Pendley, a top Trump administration official in charge of managing one-tenth of all land in the United States, is a past contributor to 21st Century Science & Technology, a fringe magazine of the late cult leader, convicted fraudster and paranoid conspiracy theorist Lyndon LaRouche.

Pendley wrote two pieces for 21st Century Science & Technology in the early 1990s when he was president of the right-wing nonprofit Mountain States Legal Foundation. The magazine was part of a network of LaRouche publications and chock full of pseudoscience, climate change denial and wild conspiracy theories. Its website, which is still live, features sections on “Global Warming Fraud” and calls for bringing back DDT, a banned toxic insecticide.

LaRouche embraced a frenzy of conspiracy theories, contending that Queen Elizabeth is an international drug trafficker, that AIDS is spread by mosquitos, that former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger was a Soviet agent, and that the rock band The Beatles was “a product shaped according to British Psychological Warfare Division specifications.”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/will...b34813e4b079eb95a33d3e??ncid=newsltushpmgnews
 
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Cochise

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(Transplanted from the Greta Thunberg thread)

... Most people don't concern themselves with this question because there is damn all they can, as individuals, do about it.
It is perhaps best illustrated by the Greta Thunberg phenomena. Green girl, saying all the right things.
Then jeting arond the world to give lectures that anyone could watch on their tv or computer.
Damn it Greta, you should have declined the tours. You blew your credentials out the water with that one.
It should also be pointed out that the actual real scientists (who I disagree with from the opposite perspective) don't support her either.

http://europeanpost.co/500-scientists-dismiss-greta-thunberg-there-is-no-climate-emergency/

You won't find this link on Google, of course.
 
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INT21

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It should also be pointed out that the actual real scientists (who I disagree with from the opposite perspective) don't support her either.

http://europeanpost.co/500-scientists-dismiss-greta-thunberg-there-is-no-climate-emergency/

You won't find this link on Google, of course.
..
Natural as well as anthropogenic factors cause warming
The geological archive reveals that Earth’s climate has varied as long as the planet has existed, with natural cold and warm phases. The Little Ice Age ended as recently as 1850. Therefore, it is no surprise that we now are experiencing a period of warming. ..

However, the previous epochs did not have the industrial revolution trigger the daily man made results of burning millions of tons of fossil fuels over and above the natural contribution.
We can't do anything about what nature brings, but we can about what we do.
 

Cochise

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..
Natural as well as anthropogenic factors cause warming
The geological archive reveals that Earth’s climate has varied as long as the planet has existed, with natural cold and warm phases. The Little Ice Age ended as recently as 1850. Therefore, it is no surprise that we now are experiencing a period of warming. ..

However, the previous epochs did not have the industrial revolution trigger the daily man made results of burning millions of tons of fossil fuels over and above the natural contribution.
We can't do anything about what nature brings, but we can about what we do.
The argument about global warming has its own discussion. The point is that Ms Thunberg has gone way beyond what even climate change scientists think is likely, in which she is joined by the extinction rebellion loons. There are certainly things we can do to improve the sustainability of the planet - planting more trees and making sure we don't dump our plastic in the ocean for example - but those sensible measures do not get helped by half-assed extremists who tend to turn off the unconvinced.

Ultimately the problem for the world - assuming no breakthrough in interplanetary travel - will be to decide what balance between 'a pleasant life' and unlimited breeding we find acceptable. Few people are remotely prepared to consider the difficult decisions involved in that issue.
 
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