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Is There A God?

is there a god?

  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
I some respects, the big bang theory leaves a lot of room for a Creator 'God' in the 'time' before it all kicked off...

But, from observation, nature likes least energy solutions. I quoted somewhere else, a theory which states that the stresses in an area of space-time approaching zero-curve (either positive or negative curvature) the 'stresses' in that area approach infinity. Somewhere along this relationship curve something has to give, since the 'nothing' trying to contain this ever increasing energy level becomes more and more unstable. Then, BANG, the energy is released from a point area and begins to condense into matter, since matter is the easiest and most stable container of matter that space-time *seems* to be able to contain. This new energetic area becomes an expanding curve in space time (either positive or negative cuvature) and the process starts again.

Basically, 'nothing' - an area of space-time where matter has become so attenuated that there is no gravitic curvature is the most unstable thing imaginable.

I wish I could remember the source of this theory, but is someting I've been aware of for the past 19/20 years. Even then, its only a theory, and I make no claims on how true it is, its simply a possible model

8¬)
 
Elona wrote: "i dont think any religion tells you to go round commiting acts of violence against children and why would loving your neighbour be such a bad thing, or treating people as you would like to be treated, i stand by my point that religion is all about making people happier."

What can I say, read the Bible. There you'll see God telling us to stone children, commit genocide and all such fun things.

As for atheists in foxholes, people who have been in foxholes say there are. Personally, even if you do become religious in a fox hole, how would you decide which deity to pray to? Zeus or Yawhe or Quetzalcoatl?

And as for something coming out of nothing, quantum mechanics have shown it happens all the time. It is called Zero Point Energy. And that other thing about the curves, I'm guessing that's what they call the Steady State theory. Another explanation for the universe than Big Bang.

But when investigating the universe, either it has been there forever, or you will eventually find that something started from nothing. So you shouldn't be so surprised at the things you hear.
 
Indeed, things pop inand out of the qunatum mush all the time.
However, the theory I outlined wasn't intended as a steady state theory, since, for there to be a flat area of space-time any previous matter supplying curvature would have to be incredibly attenuated. Any universe in that state would be far advanced in heat-death, almost total entropy in fact.

Steady state is more low energy, basically a particle/anti-particle pair emeger from the mush, and, instead of anihilating each other, the anti-particle inteacts with something else, emitting a photon, and the particle enters the 'positive' particle background, which we seem to be pretty sure can happen

I think I missed the point of my previous post. Basically, after all that, I don't see the idea of a creator God ad a least energy solution.

8¬)
 
Xanatic said:
But when investigating the universe, either it has been there forever, or you will eventually find that something started from nothing. So you shouldn't be so surprised at the things you hear.

There's a third option: the loop theory. There's a few, like every time a black hole forms a new universe starts at the singularity, or our universe is inside a quark in another universe. Or that the end of time creates conditions for it to start again.

But omnipotence would render God outside of time. Thus God has only acted once, at all times and places simultaneously. His decision to create the universe would not be in isolation, since he is experiencing the end of the universe at the same time.

What this means I'm not sure. Or, rather, I havn't decided yet.
 
Could mean 'his' name is Yog-Sothtoth and Lovecraft was right in spite of himself :blah:

8¬)
 
Rynner
Agree with what you're saying re;worship. One of my most terrifying experiences as a child involved reading in some book that heaven consisted of x amount of levels which spent all eternity singing the praises of God (literally, I believe) which kinds of makes him a bit of a rampant egotist, if one is to believe something like that.
I also think that "God's representative on earth" the Pope is a load of crapola and havenever quite understood the Vatican's need to horde vast amounts of money instead of using it to feed and clothe those who have been "less fortunate".
I would quibble with the praying side, don't ask me why, I just have had a personal experience of having prayer work for me. Which is going to make me sound like a goon. :D
At the end of a day, your beliefs (or lack of) are your own and no-one else's POVs are going to make a jot of difference.
 
Prayer may well work because praying makes people think clearly about what they really want and why. Having clarified their ideas they either act differently and help to bring about the desired end, or else they learn to accept and understand the situation better, which makes it less stressful. So prayer need not depend on the existence of the being prayed to.

Yuk! I'm expounding a psychological theory, when psychologists are almost as bad as lawyers!
 
God - Nah But....

I do not believe in the God theory about Creation and the like but I feel there is something in the Gaia/Mother Nature thing. There appears to be some kind of overseer to the natural events on earth but I doubt that this influence goes any further than that.
 
That Gaia theory has been really misunderstood.

Okay, I admit I really don't know much about the steady state theory. And I'm not quite sure what it is you're trying to say.

I don't see how the loop thing isn't just another way of making the universe infinite.

As for the time thing. If God is omnipotent he must be able to see into the future. Which means that free will thing is crap. But God still blames us for our sins and sends us to Hell. It was revealed some time ago that the Virgin Mary prophecy of Fatme or so, had predicted the attempted assasination the the pope. Upon hearing this the guy who tried to kill him, wanted the pope to get him out of jail because since it was predestined it wasn't his fault. The pope didn't think he shouldn't still take the blame for it.
 
I don't believe in a god, but I do believe in a God.
 
Chia said:
I don't believe in a god, but I do believe in a God.

Does that mean we have to be more careful about the use of capitalisation?

8¬)
 
That could be awkward, since many folks on this board have trouble with that anyway, not to mention spelling... :miaow:
 
Apply a little (admittedly warped) logic...

If there is a God, and you spend all you time not believing in Him, when you die, you will be punished for your disbelief.

If there isn't a God, and you believe there is, when you die, you die, so no-one will be around to know you were wrong and laugh at you.

If, however, there is a God, and you believe in Him, when you die, you'll be okay.

Likewise, if there isn't a God, and you don't believe there to be a God, when you die, you die, so you can't even say 'I told you so'.

So what have you got to lose?

There's also the (I think) Buddhist parable of the man who spent all his time denying the existence of God. When he died, he was amazed to find himself in Heaven. When he met God, he asked Him 'How did I manage to get here when I spent all my life denying your existence?' And God said, 'You spent all your time thinking about Me and talking about Me, even though you were wrong about Me.'

Or something like that
 
Proposing the opposing editorial view point...

If there is a God and It is a forgiving God then it is irrelevent if you believe in It or not as upon your death it will forgive your transgression.

On the otherhand if there is a God and It is not forgiving any doubts at any time you may have had will be punished. Which would pretty much damn the lot of us.

Of course if there is no God then the Its state of forgiveness is irrelevent.

Oh... and the non/existence of God does not preclude teh non/existence of an afterlife. We may still get the chance to laugh at each other :p

Niles
(Who is still yet to vote)
 
Some good points there, Niles and Helen. I'd thought this thread was dying, but yet again I was wrong!

If I had to choose a religion, it would be Bhuddism (perhaps because many claim it is not a religion!) It always seems to wiser, kinder, and less dogmatic than other religions.
 
Oh... and the non/existence of God does not preclude teh non/existence of an afterlife. We may still get the chance to laugh at each other :p

Niles
(Who is still yet to vote) [/B][/QUOTE]

Ooooohhhh! You're not getting away with that, my good man! :))

If there's an afterlife, there has to be a God, because who would organise the sanitation and call bingo?

Answer me that and keep your suaveness !!!

:)
 
Helen said:
Ooooohhhh! You're not getting away with that, my good man! :))

If there's an afterlife, there has to be a God, because who would organise the sanitation and call bingo?

Answer me that and keep your suaveness !!!

:)

I've been told that the afterlife is very much like going to the beach... only to find that all the German's have got there first (as usual)

But since the dead apparently doen't excrete then there is no need for sanitation... and anyone can hold bingo nights... :D

Niles
 
the old song "heaven is a place on earth" certainly doest apply to blackpool if there is no excrement in heaven lol

cas
 
Bingo ? ?

If there's an afterlife, there has to be a God, because who would organise the sanitation and call bingo?

Worry not I will call the bingo (you will have to wait for me to die tho) if someone else will look after the toilets. Assuming there will be a need to poo in the afterlife.

Chriswsm - Bingo caller of the year 1989 & 1990 and now has a proper job
 
I wasn't sure for a long time, then God and I had a talk and he told me he wasn't real.
 
Helen, what you described there is known as Pascal's Wager. And obviously Pascal lacked imagination. What if you worship God all your life, and then die and find yourself standing at the gates of Valhall, what then?
 
...and what if all the various gods of Vallhalla are standing round you, holding big sticks and saying "so, this is Mr/Ms Clever Dick then....";)
 
Personally, I feel a few options were over-looked:

What if God exists, but isn't *your* God, and you've believed in the wrong God all your life and still go to hell?

What if God is in fact a very feministic Godess and takes offence to the fact religious folks associate God with the male sex and sends all believers to hell anyway?

What if there are many gods/godesses and they're angry that we don't believe in them all?

What if there is only Satan, and we all go to hell no matter what we believe?

What if there is no God or Satan or heaven or hell, but that physics doesn't fully describe our existence, and we pass on to another or extended existence where we judge our own past lives and have to 'Live with' (for lack of a better term) what we did in life - for the rest of our existence? Or that our lives are reflected upon us in death, and those who lived well (not religiously, per se) 'post-exist' well, and those who lived poorly 'post-exist' poorly, independent of ANY belief?

Related to above, what if heaven and/or hell do exist but the path to each is based solely on action and not on belief?

Is it so hard to imagine these possibilities? (no sarcasm here, this is an honest question)


I'd go on, but I've recently learned that to become a top poster, post concise and plenty, not verbose and few.
 
Interesting posits... I had considered a lot of them. Just as a point of opinion. I think a God that actually minds we don't believe in them, really isnt worth the title of 'God', nor one that requires 'worship', nor 'sacrifice' to prove that we are loyal. To actually be of the scope that our petty Gods seemed to have claimed would be beyond such things.

As I say, just my opinion, and problem with Gods

8¬)
 
While we're interjecting opinions, let me say that I agree whole-heartedly, harlequin.

Put yourself in the position of God, a god, or whatever. If you are so interested in all the little creatures loving you, and praising you, and sacrificing their time and money and their very selves to you, then you've got some serious phychological problems that need worked out. If I were God, I'd probably get bored with earth pretty quickly and move on to try out some new ideas, like cows that make chocolate milk, or socks with homing devices, so they don't get lost.
 
It would be a real Fortean phenomenon to find anyone whose
politics and religion were seriously at odds.

Evangelical atheists are few and far between. But I have never found
that respecting anyone's religion produces any reciprocal courtesy.

Religions seem to follow stages like rivers. Dangerous at first but
meandering later, embracing anything and everything. Mature and
tolerant societies seem to be vulnerable to attack from those with
more sense of apocalyptic urgency.

Maybe greater social justice would prevent so many people grasping
at solutions which call on the vengeful sky Gods? Though quite what kind of
injury turns anyone into a happy clappy I have not fathomed. :confused:
 
Xanatic said:
Helen, what you described there is known as Pascal's Wager. And obviously Pascal lacked imagination. What if you worship God all your life, and then die and find yourself standing at the gates of Valhall, what then?

Grab a Valkyrie with one hand and a horn with the other and start quaffing?

If there is a God, do you think He cares what He's called? Or She?
 
Someone once described the Old Testament God as behaving like 'a psychopathic two year-old'.

My cousin who is a born-again-happy-clappy baptist was once asked why God does all these dreadful things to us. Her reply was that we need to remember that He has a sense of humour. Make sense of that if you can.

As for evangelical aetheists, Bertrand Russell and Richard Dawkins spring to mind.

Has anyone read Russell's 'Why I am not a Christian'?
 
Has anyone read Russell's 'Why I am not a Christian'?

I've read it more than a few times, and strangely enough, it's probably why I'm not a christian. Even if you don't share that guy's beliefs, just try to fault his logic...
 
The reason I asked about 'Why I am not a Chrisitian' is because I keep meaning to read it but I never have. My Dad has a copy. I think I'll see if I can borrow it.
 
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