skinny
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Sorry, I meant the grave is 160yo. I also typed the 6 upside down.
Other travellers have left trinkets for the little one. Sentimental, I suppose.
At no extra cost:
Frost that morning, but the new swag worked brilliantly.
Weirdly formed tree
My heartland
Other travellers have left trinkets for the little one. Sentimental, I suppose.
At no extra cost:
Frost that morning, but the new swag worked brilliantly.
Weirdly formed tree
My heartland
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2001
- Messages
- 54,631
Australian copper mining hastened the end of the Cornish industry. In fact, a lot of Cornish miners left here for Australia, and other places, to find work, so possibly young Emma was of Cornish ancestry. (Although Smith is not a Cornish name.)
skinny
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My hometown was once the largest copper concern in the country - Burra. The Cornish/copper connection is very strong in many parts of the state. The main menu at the link above gives well-researched history on lots of places, people and industries in SA. The researcher is a Dutch guy, and he used to truck around photographing the old gravesites near and far. eg The Burra cemetery. Was a bit startled to see my family name on one of the old grave stones, although our people have lived all the way along the ranges from Pt Pirie up to Quorn over the last 150 or so years.
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A sad little tale here:
Grieving St Ives family appeal for help to carry out late father's final wish
By The Cornishman | Posted: October 09, 2014
A GRIEVING family have appealed for help to carry out their father's last wish to be laid to rest with his baby daughter after the record of her grave was lost in a fire.
Mandy Boyd is desperately searching for the grave of her younger sister who died as a three-week-old baby in 1967 so her father Ron's ashes can be scattered at Barnoon Cemetery in St Ives, a request he made before he passed away earlier this year.
Along with her mother Elaine Woolcock, Mrs Boyd has spent five years trying to establish the exact burial spot after a fire more than three decades ago destroyed records.
Although new records were created, the family said the small area where babies were buried has been left blank, leaving them with no idea of the exact burial plot of their baby as the family weren't able to afford a headstone.
"At the moment, because there is no record and the people who had looked after the graveyard are gone, there's no one to say how the graves run. No one can say with any certainty which one is which," said Mrs Boyd.
"Melanie has been there for 47 years on her own, my dad said he wanted to be cremated and have his ashes scattered there with her.
"We don't want to just give up and put him somewhere else.
"It started out because we wanted to know where Melanie is but now it's a case of we have got to find her. My dad died seven months ago and we're waiting for somewhere to put him. We just feel it's time to sort this out, we need to put my dad to rest properly."
In a bid to trace the grave, the family contacted Cornwall Council, which took over the management of the cemetery in 2009, but it has been unable to provide further information.
Susan Cannan, bereavement services manager for the council, said: "We sympathise with the grief that the loss of a baby causes and understand the desire of the family to locate the exact location of the burial plot. Unfortunately, due to a fire that destroyed cemetery records long before we took over the management of Barnoon, we have sadly not been able to help."
Mrs Woolcock, 75, said she is concerned the burial spot may never be located.
"So far we have got nowhere with it. I don't know which avenue to go down. If it is possible to solve it, it would be wonderful. It's my husband's wish and mine. I'd like to be able to say this is going to be our last resting place with Melanie."
http://www.cornishman.co.uk/Grieving-St ... story.html
It is a lovely cemetery, looking out over the sea. I'd like to be buried there myself, but I suppose I don't have the residential qualifications. Pictures of part of the place are here:
http://cornwalltidesreach.weebly.com/pe ... ves-2.html
(From just before half-way down the page.)
Grieving St Ives family appeal for help to carry out late father's final wish
By The Cornishman | Posted: October 09, 2014
A GRIEVING family have appealed for help to carry out their father's last wish to be laid to rest with his baby daughter after the record of her grave was lost in a fire.
Mandy Boyd is desperately searching for the grave of her younger sister who died as a three-week-old baby in 1967 so her father Ron's ashes can be scattered at Barnoon Cemetery in St Ives, a request he made before he passed away earlier this year.
Along with her mother Elaine Woolcock, Mrs Boyd has spent five years trying to establish the exact burial spot after a fire more than three decades ago destroyed records.
Although new records were created, the family said the small area where babies were buried has been left blank, leaving them with no idea of the exact burial plot of their baby as the family weren't able to afford a headstone.
"At the moment, because there is no record and the people who had looked after the graveyard are gone, there's no one to say how the graves run. No one can say with any certainty which one is which," said Mrs Boyd.
"Melanie has been there for 47 years on her own, my dad said he wanted to be cremated and have his ashes scattered there with her.
"We don't want to just give up and put him somewhere else.
"It started out because we wanted to know where Melanie is but now it's a case of we have got to find her. My dad died seven months ago and we're waiting for somewhere to put him. We just feel it's time to sort this out, we need to put my dad to rest properly."
In a bid to trace the grave, the family contacted Cornwall Council, which took over the management of the cemetery in 2009, but it has been unable to provide further information.
Susan Cannan, bereavement services manager for the council, said: "We sympathise with the grief that the loss of a baby causes and understand the desire of the family to locate the exact location of the burial plot. Unfortunately, due to a fire that destroyed cemetery records long before we took over the management of Barnoon, we have sadly not been able to help."
Mrs Woolcock, 75, said she is concerned the burial spot may never be located.
"So far we have got nowhere with it. I don't know which avenue to go down. If it is possible to solve it, it would be wonderful. It's my husband's wish and mine. I'd like to be able to say this is going to be our last resting place with Melanie."
http://www.cornishman.co.uk/Grieving-St ... story.html
It is a lovely cemetery, looking out over the sea. I'd like to be buried there myself, but I suppose I don't have the residential qualifications. Pictures of part of the place are here:
http://cornwalltidesreach.weebly.com/pe ... ves-2.html
(From just before half-way down the page.)
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Distraught family finds mum’s grave flooded
Published 20/11/2014 08:00
A family has been left distraught after their mother’s grave was flooded the day after her funeral.
Margaret Raynor, of Southgate, was buried at Snell Hatch Cemetery on Thursday (November 13) after succumbing to cancer.
When her family, including husband Robert, returned to the cemetery the next day, they found the grave had dropped and was flooded with rain water.
Mr Raynor said the water was more than one foot deep in places and added: “I was distraught. My daughter was crying her eyes out. The flowers were floating on the top and the flowers with the cards have all gone.”
Mr Raynor asked Crawley Borough Council to explain why his wife’s grave sank to such an extent and called for a donation to be made to Cancer Research in her name.
A council spokesman said Mrs Raynor’s grave was topped up with soil on Saturday and tidied.
He added: “We appreciate and understand Mr Raynor’s distress. However, a grave dropping after heavy rain is a perfectly normal part of burial and we are unable to prevent it.We walk the site every day to check newly dug graves and top up with soil for up to a year following burial.”
No donation will be made.
http://www.crawleyobserver.co.uk/news/l ... -1-6424863
Published 20/11/2014 08:00
A family has been left distraught after their mother’s grave was flooded the day after her funeral.
Margaret Raynor, of Southgate, was buried at Snell Hatch Cemetery on Thursday (November 13) after succumbing to cancer.
When her family, including husband Robert, returned to the cemetery the next day, they found the grave had dropped and was flooded with rain water.
Mr Raynor said the water was more than one foot deep in places and added: “I was distraught. My daughter was crying her eyes out. The flowers were floating on the top and the flowers with the cards have all gone.”
Mr Raynor asked Crawley Borough Council to explain why his wife’s grave sank to such an extent and called for a donation to be made to Cancer Research in her name.
A council spokesman said Mrs Raynor’s grave was topped up with soil on Saturday and tidied.
He added: “We appreciate and understand Mr Raynor’s distress. However, a grave dropping after heavy rain is a perfectly normal part of burial and we are unable to prevent it.We walk the site every day to check newly dug graves and top up with soil for up to a year following burial.”
No donation will be made.
http://www.crawleyobserver.co.uk/news/l ... -1-6424863
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19 January 2015 Last updated at 10:01
Grave containing thousands of bodies found at Eastville site
peterhigginbotham-workhousesorguk.jpg)
The Eastville workhouse was known as "100 Fishponds Road" and had 1,200 inmates
An unmarked mass grave containing the bodies of more than 3,000 paupers has been discovered in Bristol.
Bristol Radical History Group (BRHG) spotted a disused burial ground at the 19th century Eastville workhouse site on a 1902 Ordnance Survey map.
The group wants to raise £9,000 for a memorial, carrying all the names of the forgotten dead on the public open space now known as Rosemary Green.
Di Parkin, from BRHG, said: "The scale was immense, we were really stunned."
The Eastville workhouse, which was known as "100 Fishponds Road", had 1,200 inmates and was one of the largest of the 600 in England and Wales.
Bristol Radical History Group spotted a disused burial ground on a 1902 Ordnance Survey map
In the 1920s it became a home for the elderly and was demolished in 1972 to make way for a new housing estate.
The history group volunteers spent two years going through workhouse death registers at Bristol Record Office to confirm the burials.
They discovered the names and ages of nearly 3,500 workhouse inmates who were buried at the site between 1855 and 1895. These included 743 children, of which more than 100 were babies, many of them newborn.
Ms Parkin said: "I feel it is really wrong that poor people's lives would be so little valued that in death there would be nothing to remember them."
What is a workhouse?
- Dating back to 1652, they took in people who went there as a last resort when destitute
- Originated as part of the parish-based poor relief system funded by local rates and run by local Boards of Guardians
- Sir George Gilbert Scott, responsible for the Albert memorial, started his career designing workhouses
- Charles Dickens' character Oliver Twist was born and raised in a workhouse
- Parish workhouse buildings were often just ordinary local houses, rented for the purpose
- The workhouse era officially ended on 1 April 1930
Information source: The Workhouse by Peter Higginbotham
Gloria Davey, an estate resident who has joined the memorial planning group, said: "I am thrilled that something is being done to recognise these poor people at long last.
"I am appalled that they were treated with such lack of respect. It's heartbreaking."
Workhouse historian and author Peter Higginbotham said: "Eastville was unusual in having its own burial ground. Most workhouses buried their unclaimed dead in unmarked public graves in churchyards or municipal cemeteries."
BRHG have published the names of those buried at Rosemary Green on the history group's website .
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-30876235
Grave containing thousands of bodies found at Eastville site
The Eastville workhouse was known as "100 Fishponds Road" and had 1,200 inmates
An unmarked mass grave containing the bodies of more than 3,000 paupers has been discovered in Bristol.
Bristol Radical History Group (BRHG) spotted a disused burial ground at the 19th century Eastville workhouse site on a 1902 Ordnance Survey map.
The group wants to raise £9,000 for a memorial, carrying all the names of the forgotten dead on the public open space now known as Rosemary Green.
Di Parkin, from BRHG, said: "The scale was immense, we were really stunned."
The Eastville workhouse, which was known as "100 Fishponds Road", had 1,200 inmates and was one of the largest of the 600 in England and Wales.
Bristol Radical History Group spotted a disused burial ground on a 1902 Ordnance Survey map
In the 1920s it became a home for the elderly and was demolished in 1972 to make way for a new housing estate.
The history group volunteers spent two years going through workhouse death registers at Bristol Record Office to confirm the burials.
They discovered the names and ages of nearly 3,500 workhouse inmates who were buried at the site between 1855 and 1895. These included 743 children, of which more than 100 were babies, many of them newborn.
Ms Parkin said: "I feel it is really wrong that poor people's lives would be so little valued that in death there would be nothing to remember them."
What is a workhouse?
- Dating back to 1652, they took in people who went there as a last resort when destitute
- Originated as part of the parish-based poor relief system funded by local rates and run by local Boards of Guardians
- Sir George Gilbert Scott, responsible for the Albert memorial, started his career designing workhouses
- Charles Dickens' character Oliver Twist was born and raised in a workhouse
- Parish workhouse buildings were often just ordinary local houses, rented for the purpose
- The workhouse era officially ended on 1 April 1930
Information source: The Workhouse by Peter Higginbotham
Gloria Davey, an estate resident who has joined the memorial planning group, said: "I am thrilled that something is being done to recognise these poor people at long last.
"I am appalled that they were treated with such lack of respect. It's heartbreaking."
Workhouse historian and author Peter Higginbotham said: "Eastville was unusual in having its own burial ground. Most workhouses buried their unclaimed dead in unmarked public graves in churchyards or municipal cemeteries."
BRHG have published the names of those buried at Rosemary Green on the history group's website .
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-30876235
FrKadash
Justified & Ancient
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...-under-liverpool-street-station-10032619.html
''Could Crossrail have uncovered the last resting place of Britain's left-wing martyr in Bedlam burial ground under Liverpool Street station?''
Archaeologists expect to unearth some 3,000 skeletons during the dig, potentially including that of the Leveller martyr – Robert Lockyer
David Keys
Archaeology correspondent
Monday 09 February 2015
''Could Crossrail have uncovered the last resting place of Britain's left-wing martyr in Bedlam burial ground under Liverpool Street station?''
Archaeologists expect to unearth some 3,000 skeletons during the dig, potentially including that of the Leveller martyr – Robert Lockyer
David Keys
Archaeology correspondent
Monday 09 February 2015
Last edited by a moderator:
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Ditchling mother finds baby daughter 41 years after stillborn
by Oli Gross
A mother has finally found the resting place of her baby daughter - 41 years after she was stillborn.
Catharine Robinson, from Ditchling, had a perfectly healthy pregnancy, but her baby, known only as ‘Baby Robinson’ was overdue and died before childbirth in Cuckfield Hospital.
The baby was taken away before Catharine held or even saw her, and she was not told where her daughter was buried.
But after 41 years she decided to rekindle attempts to find her child, and with help from funeral directors P&S Gallagher and West Sussex Archives, she discovered her daughter was buried at Holy Trinity Church in Cuckfield.
“I’ll never forget hearing ‘Mrs Robinson, I have found your baby’, I was very emotional,” Catharine said.
...
http://www.midsussextimes.co.uk/new...y-daughter-41-years-after-stillborn-1-6561792
by Oli Gross
A mother has finally found the resting place of her baby daughter - 41 years after she was stillborn.
Catharine Robinson, from Ditchling, had a perfectly healthy pregnancy, but her baby, known only as ‘Baby Robinson’ was overdue and died before childbirth in Cuckfield Hospital.
The baby was taken away before Catharine held or even saw her, and she was not told where her daughter was buried.
But after 41 years she decided to rekindle attempts to find her child, and with help from funeral directors P&S Gallagher and West Sussex Archives, she discovered her daughter was buried at Holy Trinity Church in Cuckfield.
“I’ll never forget hearing ‘Mrs Robinson, I have found your baby’, I was very emotional,” Catharine said.
...
http://www.midsussextimes.co.uk/new...y-daughter-41-years-after-stillborn-1-6561792
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Mystery visitor to boy's grave in Gloucestershire, sought by sister
A mystery person who has been tending a boy's grave in Gloucestershire is being sought by his sister.
Karl Smith was just 12 when he drowned on a scouting trip in 1947. He was buried at St Mary's Church in Prestbury near Cheltenham.
For the last 20 years flowers and poems have been appearing on his grave, according to his sister Ann Kear.
She said: "They're never signed, so someone wishes to remain incognito but I would love to speak to them."
Ms Kear's brother was on a scouting trip to Oxwich Bay near Swansea in August 1947, when the troop stopped at a village and were instructed not to go in the water.
"Boys being boys, they apparently saw the sea, wanted to get in and so they were in," she said.
"But when they got them back out, there was one missing and that was Karl. They searched and he was face down in the water."
Ms Kear said she visits Prestbury cemetery each Christmas but has been finding "someone else has put something on the grave".
"It's either a sprig of holly, sometimes it's been a little sheaf of corn nicely wrapped and also some words of tribute - quotations from poems," she said.
"This time the grave has been tended and some flowers have been planted."
Ms Kear, who was just seven when her brother died, said she left a laminated message at the grave for the person seven years ago but has "not heard anything".
"They're never signed but it's very neat writing and sort of an elderly hand," she said.
"But I would love to speak to them, remembering Karl would be wonderful - absolutely wonderful."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-34515013
A real puzzler. The boy died in 1947, but these messages have only been arriving for the last 20 years, ie, since about 1995, about 48 years after the boy drowned.
A mystery person who has been tending a boy's grave in Gloucestershire is being sought by his sister.
Karl Smith was just 12 when he drowned on a scouting trip in 1947. He was buried at St Mary's Church in Prestbury near Cheltenham.
For the last 20 years flowers and poems have been appearing on his grave, according to his sister Ann Kear.
She said: "They're never signed, so someone wishes to remain incognito but I would love to speak to them."
Ms Kear's brother was on a scouting trip to Oxwich Bay near Swansea in August 1947, when the troop stopped at a village and were instructed not to go in the water.
"Boys being boys, they apparently saw the sea, wanted to get in and so they were in," she said.
"But when they got them back out, there was one missing and that was Karl. They searched and he was face down in the water."
Ms Kear said she visits Prestbury cemetery each Christmas but has been finding "someone else has put something on the grave".
"It's either a sprig of holly, sometimes it's been a little sheaf of corn nicely wrapped and also some words of tribute - quotations from poems," she said.
"This time the grave has been tended and some flowers have been planted."
Ms Kear, who was just seven when her brother died, said she left a laminated message at the grave for the person seven years ago but has "not heard anything".
"They're never signed but it's very neat writing and sort of an elderly hand," she said.
"But I would love to speak to them, remembering Karl would be wonderful - absolutely wonderful."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-34515013
A real puzzler. The boy died in 1947, but these messages have only been arriving for the last 20 years, ie, since about 1995, about 48 years after the boy drowned.
Last edited:
Mythopoeika
I am a meat popsicle
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It's probably just some old friend who spotted the grave and remembered him from their childhood.
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So this old friend had been away from Gloucestershire for maybe 48 years? How would he have known it was the grave of the same Karl Smith he had known?
If I'd been in that position, even if I was sure the grave belonged to a boyhood friend, would I have been moved to tend that grave every year and leave poems, etc? Maybe once, in a spirit of 'Farewell, old chum', but not every year.
I suspect there's something deeper involved here. Perhaps the grave-tender feels guilt in some way for Karl's death? Was he another boy scout, there at the time?
Swifty
doesn't negotiate with terriers
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I don't know .. one of my best mate's Dad killed himself in the 80's ... all round nice guy etc etc .. he also went to Woodstock rock festival so we'd sometimes go to his grave site, smoke a joint and then leave half of it there for Jeff .. I suppose people do strange things for strange reasons sometimes ..
Frideswide
Fortea Morgana :) PeteByrdie certificated Princess
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Or it's someone who knows a similar loss from their own life but can't tend /that/ grave....?
Swifty
doesn't negotiate with terriers
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Perhaps sometimes .. me and his son hadn't experienced that sort of nastiness at that point, that's just how we dealt with it then. My Mum had him live with us for a little while ..
Ulalume
tart of darkness
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Whenever I vist a cemetery, I make a point of cleaning and leaving some flowers or stones at some of the old, neglected graves. I figure anyone who would have come to tend them is long dead themselves, and it makes me a little sad.
The story about the boy scout's grave sounds like there is a personal connection, though.
The story about the boy scout's grave sounds like there is a personal connection, though.
genex17
Ephemeral Spectre
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Now that I think of it, very personal. I don't remember a case like that since Edgar Allen Poe.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...isits-to-edgar-allan-poes-grave-declared-over
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We have a thread on that case:
http://forum.forteantimes.com/index.php?threads/edgar-allan-poe.7526/
genex17
Ephemeral Spectre
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60 years, We have a record, unless it was more than one carrying the torch.
20 or 60, it's a grand gesture.
Tribble
Killjoy Boffin
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There's some very nice graveyards/cemeteries in and around Edinburgh. As you can imagine, some are pretty old too. In Cramond, you'll find graves from the 1700s, when skull and crossbones motifs were popular. Greyfriars has its own poltergeist (which once left a dusty footprint on the back of my gf-at-the-time's jacket, apparently) and Lord Voldemort's grave. There's only one cemetery I don't like in Edinburgh and that's a small, private one in some woods. I won't reveal its location but let's just say it's a disciplinary offence for students to be found there. It's a nice approach on a summer's day - a tree-lined, grassy avenue, sunlight streaming through the trees, all very nice and tranquil. Until one reaches the wall and railings surrounding it. The first time I went, it just felt calm and a little sad. On the second visit I got a creepy feeling, along the lines of "Go away". Very odd.
(Gordon would probably also appreciate a plug for his book, which amongst other subjects covers some of Edinburgh's graveyards.)
(Gordon would probably also appreciate a plug for his book, which amongst other subjects covers some of Edinburgh's graveyards.)
Frideswide
Fortea Morgana :) PeteByrdie certificated Princess
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I have this! excellent book!
Ghost In The Machine
Justified & Ancient
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Long and I should be working so more fun to procrastinate here. Bear with me. I'd be interested in people's opinions. Here's something happened to us, re. burial location.
My mum died and was buried in the village churchyard, early 1970s. I was a kid and picked up the feeling I shouldn't go to the funeral as the adults wouldn't be able to take it, somehow, seeing the sight of my brother and I. So we both stayed home. Our house was a few metres away from the churchyard but it was a vast one and my mum buried on the other side, so not within sight even of the top rooms of the house.
As kids we'd go chat to the gravedigger (in the days when it was still a man with a spade, not a JCB). So we knew where she was buried, as that was the 'current' row of fresh graves.
About a fortnight after, I asked dad to go with me, to put some flowers on her grave and he put on his best suit, picked some christmas roses I think it was, that my mother had grown herself, and we walked across the road to the churchyard. He took me there and we laid flowers. It was obviously still a freshly dug thing. No-one else in the village had died in that week or two since. No one had died for several months before her, either. The 1970s' graves were in a recently cleared part of the churchyard, all in one long row. Only, she had died the week of the first snow so the burial was out of sync and she was put in further along from where she 'should' have been - maybe because the ground was hard or something? I vividly recall me and my mate standing talking to the gravedigger (not when he dug mum's grave!) many times because we liked to see the skulls (lovely kids) and bones and grave furniture and stuff. Victorian. There had been people buried there for literally 1000 years as it was on the site of an Anglo Saxon church. They'd put the bones round the roses.
Anyway, I remembered where the grave was because she was 'three in from the left' (there was a row in front I could use to orientate, and later, a row behind). It was the only new grave and there was a wooden marker with a number that stayed there for a few years. My dad couldn't afford a headstone. He never visited the grave ever again, to my knowledge. It was less than a 3 minute walk from our house. But he didn't believe in visiting graveyards.
I later was told that a step relative once asked where mum was buried, when there was a family event at the church, and dad pointed out this same spot. Other people were buried along from mum - also their graves unmarked. I visited loyally and constantly so no long time gap to forget where she was. Thinking about it, I often went with a friend who I have just found on FB so maybe I will ask her about this.
Anyway, a couple of years ago, there was a family wedding and the bride asked if she could leave part of her bouquet on mum's grave. I said she could. She wanted to get a headstone, (guests would see it was unmarked?) which I resisted simply as I have lots of kids and can't afford it. No matter. Mum wouldn't care. Over the 40 odd years I was the only one taking flowers regularly. I'd put them in a jam jar on the exact spot. She knew I loved her when she was alive - that was enough. But this risked turning into a Bridezilla thing and my husband remarked that the graves were out of date sync - if my mum died when she did, she should have been about 12 graves down on the right. I was so confident I didn't misremeber I even told them she was buried on a Thursday. Step relatives confirmed dad had pointed out the grave to them and also pointed to where I did. But they ade an appointment with the vicar who had some kind of burial record - not sure if it was a plan he had, I think it was but he also had the original record. And he insisted mum was buried maybe ten grave spots up from the place I'd been faithfully laying flowers for decades - in a lone, unmarked one, nearer to the church.
I knew that was bollocks. Dad took me there only a week or two after, and she was still the only recent burial, and the spot I recall is where she was.
Vicar claimed there was a gap in the burials because they'd hit part of a lost medieval chapel. Now coincidentally, I have a friend who researched that very thing and told me the location of the lost chapel. Totally the other end of the vast churchyard.
So I told him this. He got quite shirty and insisted he was right (he has only been in the parish a handful of years and the vicar who buried mum is long dead).
I continue to leave flowers when I go, where I always did. The step relatives say I am right, too. Not only do I remember mum's grave but I remember in the months following, the next two or three (the other unmarked ones) also going in to the left of mum - where the vicar claims the lost chapel wall is.
Also, in those days the graves were cut by hand. Even if the gravedigger had found a partial medieval wall - he'd have dismantled it and lobbed it like he lobbed everything else. ;o) Because the mindset was very 'bugger archaeology!' I recall the same vicar 'vanishing' a whole swathe of fascinating 18thC/19thC gravestones. I lived opposite and even we didn't see or hear them go so the story was they were removed in the night to make room for the new burials. So they had zero sense of history, or interest in preserving it.
There are no answers, but the insensitive bullheaded way this vicar handled it and the way he insisted he was right, really pissed me off. Now half my family think I don't even know where mum was buried (even though they never did!) My dad died a few years back and he's the only one who could have solved this.
ETA: As a child, I memorised the number on the grave marker - forgot to say - and that remained in situ for several years.
Also forgot to say - after the vicar left, we noticed that even if she had been buried where he said - she'd be out of sync date-wise, having a couple of people who died later, ahead of her, so to speak. So the spot he pointed out, wasn't logical, either.
My mum died and was buried in the village churchyard, early 1970s. I was a kid and picked up the feeling I shouldn't go to the funeral as the adults wouldn't be able to take it, somehow, seeing the sight of my brother and I. So we both stayed home. Our house was a few metres away from the churchyard but it was a vast one and my mum buried on the other side, so not within sight even of the top rooms of the house.
As kids we'd go chat to the gravedigger (in the days when it was still a man with a spade, not a JCB). So we knew where she was buried, as that was the 'current' row of fresh graves.
About a fortnight after, I asked dad to go with me, to put some flowers on her grave and he put on his best suit, picked some christmas roses I think it was, that my mother had grown herself, and we walked across the road to the churchyard. He took me there and we laid flowers. It was obviously still a freshly dug thing. No-one else in the village had died in that week or two since. No one had died for several months before her, either. The 1970s' graves were in a recently cleared part of the churchyard, all in one long row. Only, she had died the week of the first snow so the burial was out of sync and she was put in further along from where she 'should' have been - maybe because the ground was hard or something? I vividly recall me and my mate standing talking to the gravedigger (not when he dug mum's grave!) many times because we liked to see the skulls (lovely kids) and bones and grave furniture and stuff. Victorian. There had been people buried there for literally 1000 years as it was on the site of an Anglo Saxon church. They'd put the bones round the roses.
Anyway, I remembered where the grave was because she was 'three in from the left' (there was a row in front I could use to orientate, and later, a row behind). It was the only new grave and there was a wooden marker with a number that stayed there for a few years. My dad couldn't afford a headstone. He never visited the grave ever again, to my knowledge. It was less than a 3 minute walk from our house. But he didn't believe in visiting graveyards.
I later was told that a step relative once asked where mum was buried, when there was a family event at the church, and dad pointed out this same spot. Other people were buried along from mum - also their graves unmarked. I visited loyally and constantly so no long time gap to forget where she was. Thinking about it, I often went with a friend who I have just found on FB so maybe I will ask her about this.
Anyway, a couple of years ago, there was a family wedding and the bride asked if she could leave part of her bouquet on mum's grave. I said she could. She wanted to get a headstone, (guests would see it was unmarked?) which I resisted simply as I have lots of kids and can't afford it. No matter. Mum wouldn't care. Over the 40 odd years I was the only one taking flowers regularly. I'd put them in a jam jar on the exact spot. She knew I loved her when she was alive - that was enough. But this risked turning into a Bridezilla thing and my husband remarked that the graves were out of date sync - if my mum died when she did, she should have been about 12 graves down on the right. I was so confident I didn't misremeber I even told them she was buried on a Thursday. Step relatives confirmed dad had pointed out the grave to them and also pointed to where I did. But they ade an appointment with the vicar who had some kind of burial record - not sure if it was a plan he had, I think it was but he also had the original record. And he insisted mum was buried maybe ten grave spots up from the place I'd been faithfully laying flowers for decades - in a lone, unmarked one, nearer to the church.
I knew that was bollocks. Dad took me there only a week or two after, and she was still the only recent burial, and the spot I recall is where she was.
Vicar claimed there was a gap in the burials because they'd hit part of a lost medieval chapel. Now coincidentally, I have a friend who researched that very thing and told me the location of the lost chapel. Totally the other end of the vast churchyard.
So I told him this. He got quite shirty and insisted he was right (he has only been in the parish a handful of years and the vicar who buried mum is long dead).
I continue to leave flowers when I go, where I always did. The step relatives say I am right, too. Not only do I remember mum's grave but I remember in the months following, the next two or three (the other unmarked ones) also going in to the left of mum - where the vicar claims the lost chapel wall is.
Also, in those days the graves were cut by hand. Even if the gravedigger had found a partial medieval wall - he'd have dismantled it and lobbed it like he lobbed everything else. ;o) Because the mindset was very 'bugger archaeology!' I recall the same vicar 'vanishing' a whole swathe of fascinating 18thC/19thC gravestones. I lived opposite and even we didn't see or hear them go so the story was they were removed in the night to make room for the new burials. So they had zero sense of history, or interest in preserving it.
There are no answers, but the insensitive bullheaded way this vicar handled it and the way he insisted he was right, really pissed me off. Now half my family think I don't even know where mum was buried (even though they never did!) My dad died a few years back and he's the only one who could have solved this.
ETA: As a child, I memorised the number on the grave marker - forgot to say - and that remained in situ for several years.
Also forgot to say - after the vicar left, we noticed that even if she had been buried where he said - she'd be out of sync date-wise, having a couple of people who died later, ahead of her, so to speak. So the spot he pointed out, wasn't logical, either.
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genex17
Ephemeral Spectre
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- Aug 26, 2010
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- 373
Has he considered a Kindle Edition? It would show up on Amazon.com (US). I'm also connected to the Amazon UK store.
It would be instant delivery over a wide region.
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2001
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- 7,225
Thank you kindly, much appreciated and now intrigued about the one cemetery you don't like in Edinburgh!
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2001
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- 7,225
Thank you. much appreciated
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2001
- Messages
- 7,225
That's in the hands of my publishers, and I don't think that is a route they are interested in. I do however have print copies if anyone is interested
I have however dipped my toe in the water of ebooks courtesy of Windmill books and my first is already out - The Weird World of Charles Fort - part of a series entitled UneXplained Rapid Reads
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Weird-World...=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1445022267&sr=1-5
http://www.amazon.com/Weird-World-Charles-UneXplained-Rapid-ebook/dp/B0158MOGP4
Currently working on my next two for them.
Gordon
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- Aug 7, 2001
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- 54,631
Almost 280 bodies discovered under Manchester tram line
Workers unearthed 277 bodies - more than double the number originally predicted by experts
Caroline Mortimer
At least 277 bodies have been discovered by railway workers updating a tram line in Manchester.
The giant cemetery - believed to date from the 18th century - was found by construction workers working on the Metrolink expansion in the city centre.
Previously experts and archaeologists studying the site who had studied Manchester’s public records had expected to find fewer than 130 burials.
The unexpected discovery has pushed back the timetable for completion of the works by eleven months but Transport for Greater Manchester (TGM) said it has found savings elsewhere.
Manchester City Council spokesman, Pat Karney said the find was “the most amazing piece of history”.
He told the Manchester Evening News: “The fact that twice the number of bodies had to be taken out just shows how historically important it is - as well as explaining the complications of putting a new tram line into the city centre.”
A service to reinter the bodies is due to take place next summer after archaeological research has finished.
Transport works across the country have unearthed several burial sites - giving archaeologists a better insight into Britain’s past.
In March, 3,000 skeletons were found underneath London’s Liverpool Street station in what is believed to have been a plague pit.
The Bedlam burial site was in use for more than 170 years from 1569 to 1738.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...under-a-tram-line-in-manchester-a6736041.html
Workers unearthed 277 bodies - more than double the number originally predicted by experts
Caroline Mortimer
At least 277 bodies have been discovered by railway workers updating a tram line in Manchester.
The giant cemetery - believed to date from the 18th century - was found by construction workers working on the Metrolink expansion in the city centre.
Previously experts and archaeologists studying the site who had studied Manchester’s public records had expected to find fewer than 130 burials.
The unexpected discovery has pushed back the timetable for completion of the works by eleven months but Transport for Greater Manchester (TGM) said it has found savings elsewhere.
Manchester City Council spokesman, Pat Karney said the find was “the most amazing piece of history”.
He told the Manchester Evening News: “The fact that twice the number of bodies had to be taken out just shows how historically important it is - as well as explaining the complications of putting a new tram line into the city centre.”
A service to reinter the bodies is due to take place next summer after archaeological research has finished.
Transport works across the country have unearthed several burial sites - giving archaeologists a better insight into Britain’s past.
In March, 3,000 skeletons were found underneath London’s Liverpool Street station in what is believed to have been a plague pit.
The Bedlam burial site was in use for more than 170 years from 1569 to 1738.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...under-a-tram-line-in-manchester-a6736041.html
JamesWhitehead
Piffle Prospector
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2001
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- 14,201
For one surreal moment, I envisaged a Metrolink carriage filled with skeletons!
The context of the story is that Pat Karney is under fire for the extensive roadworks which are adding - he says - 40% to journey times*. The Metrolink extension has turned Deansgate into Congestion Central.
I would not be surprised if they start to find skeletons in the cars!
*Allow double the estimate, if crossing town. Diversions are creating knock-on delays at more or less every junction!