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Call Of The Void ( L’Appel Du Vide; High Place Phenomenon)

Swifty

Swifty

doesn't negotiate with terriers
Joined
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(Copied from the Vertigo thread ... )

My knees go wobbly and I get the urge to step off the edge for some reason I don't understand at tall places .
 
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Ditto Swifty. I really don't do well above four feet above ground level, and so I thought the answer was 'confront your fears' - Ha!...utter balderdash.

My supposed answer was to do a static line jump from nine thousand feet - did I mention utter balderdash? ...

As much as I thought that this would work to correct my fear of heights, that saying, 'when man plans, God laughs' comes to mind, as I now, in my slightly advanced years suffer from acrophobia [still], deafness, tinittus and a problem with balance, which makes me resemble a caricature of some old geezer three sheets to the wind.

But Skinny, like you, I now realise that it wasn't a fear of heights that played upon my mind over all that time- it was the desiring to jump from that height [which really is what I'm called to do in that situation], and the subsequent landing. ...
 
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In the film 'Margin Call' when the city dealers are up on the roof one states that 'people aren't afraid of falling; they are afraid they might jump'.

INT21
 
I've had a similar cliff edge/escarpment experience at "Hall's Gap" in Victoria, Aus. Beautiful place but on approaching the edge I had an overwhelming feeling of wanting/having to jump. It was so strong I had to get down on my hands and knees and explore. The need to jump came in waves and I was shaking a little. That evening around the fire our guide told us that the place was famous for suicides.
 
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Swifty said:
My knees go wobbly and I get the urge to step off the edge for some reason I don't understand at tall places .
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MungomanII said:
... like you, I now realise that it wasn't a fear of heights that played upon my mind over all that time- it was the desiring to jump from that height
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INT21 said:
In the film 'Margin Call' when the city dealers are up on the roof one states that 'people aren't afraid of falling; they are afraid they might jump'.
Click to expand...

i know this from milan kundera :
vertigo is something other than the fear of falling. It is the voice of emptiness below us which tempts and lures us, it is the desire to fall, against which, terrified, we defend ourselves
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Oh, I know that feeling, being afraid you might jump.

This is a pedestrian bridge in our town-
Bridge 3.jpg

Before it was made into a pedestrian bridge, it was just a rickety old thing that had been closed to traffic because it was full of holes. When we were kids, my best friend lived at one end of it. At the other end was a shop called Zippy's that sold ice cream and cokes. When I stayed at BF's house, she always wanted to walk there for a treat. This was no big deal to her, but I was none too keen. Especially as there were signs all over warning it was unsafe to walk on the bridge.

There were cracks running straight across and holes so big you could look straight down into the river. The thing actually shook when you took a step. But I didn't want to be a coward, so I'd avoid looking down and try to somehow make myself lighter when we'd cross. :p Fearing I might jump hadn't come in to it quite yet.

You can probably tell the photo above was taken from a place of similar height - this bridge, just down the way.
bridge.jpg

Now this bridge was perfectly sound and stable, but much later in life it became a particular bugbear. I had to walk across it to get to work and back, and every blessed time I was afraid I was going to jump off. The fear crept up slowly, from being a minor uneasiness to eventually having to talk myself across the darned thing while keeping one hand on the railing.

As you can imagine, I spent much time during those walks wondering why I was so terrified of doing something I didn't want to do. I didn't know if was a fairly common fear then. My only comfort was knowing that I wasn't quite agile enough to heave myself over the parapet.

It's not the same as skyscrapers or steel girders or anything like that, but I'm more than happy I don't have to take that route these days!

Funnily enough, the pedestrian bridge, in its former decrepit form, still turns up in my dreams sometimes. I suppose it's symbolic.
 
There is a similar fear that involves still, deep water. people sometimes feel an urge to jump into it.

INT21
 
i personally have never felt the urge to jump into water, but to jump off high things.... yeah!! in fact on many occasions as a teenager - 14 or 15 yr old, we used to do what is now known as urbex (urban exploration) and i would often sit on the edge of some tall building or likewise, legs and feet dangling over the side.... often feeling the urge to jump off. it was only the realisation of knowing it would bloody hurt - at least - that stopped me from jumping ( not a suicidal thing at all)
On similar lines, i often stop on a local bridge over a river (river Douglas) when out on road test (motorcycles), to do a spot of fish spotting, and often have to stop myself from throwing the keys into the water??? i usually put the keys in my pocket to stop myself.. lol, what the hell is that about? i do worry about the state of my mind sometimes.. haha
 
I wonder if the jumping urge is anything to do with having bird DNA that makes us want to take off and soar, oblivious to the fact we don't have wings?
 
well theres a possibility? i have quite regularly had dreams where i am flying/ soaring and its a great feeling.. while it lasts.. boo..
 
The Imp of the Perverse is at his work!

The term itself is Poe's, from his tale of that name and it has passed into the literature of morbid psychology. The French had a yen for it, witness Les caves du Vatican of Gide or À rebours & Là-bas of Huysmans.

I can't say I have an urge to jump from heights; when I am up a ladder, as needs must sometimes, my morbid thoughts, these days, dwell on "what if I fainted?" or "what a place to have a heart-attack!" :horr:
 
This is about small acts of almost stupidity:

https://9gag.com/gag/aoNPMqx

This is the "call of the void". Sometimes we think about these bad ideas that we could totally do, but we actually don't mean to. It's totally normal
 
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YOUNG MAN
THERE R LEAVES ALL AROUND
I SAID YOUNG MAN, EAT A LEAF OFF THE GROUND

That's magnificent! I irritated my wife mightily by laughing about it most of the evening.
I searched Google and found that it's a meme. I get the YMCA reference. But where did it originate? And where did YOU get it?
 
uair01 said:
YOUNG MAN
THERE R LEAVES ALL AROUND
I SAID YOUNG MAN, EAT A LEAF OFF THE GROUND

That's magnificent! I irritated my wife mightily by laughing about it most of the evening.
I searched Google and found that it's a meme. I get the YMCA reference. But where did it originate? And where did YOU get it?
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:D Made me laugh too!

It's in the comments on the 9gag page about the 'call of the void', haven't seen it anywhere else. There are other funny posts on there too!
 
The urge to jump off a bridge or ledge etc is probably nothing as romantic as bird dna...its just one variety of a number of self destructive urges people usually resist. A horrible example of another I recall was a blind man being interviewed by Gay Byrne on the Late Late Show back in the 80s...an articulate, intelligent, perfectly sane and rational man, he explained to Byrne that he was blind because as a child he had a pair of scissors in his hands and gave into the quiet temptation everyone else resists...to wonder what it would be like to stick them in his eyes....
 
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It's like l'appel du vide which is perfectly normal if disconcerting.

You see a potentially dangerous situation and think 'What if I...'

I get the urge to jump from railway platforms onto slow-moving unladen container wagons. It's not going to happen but my brain teases me with the idea.
 
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escargot said:
It's like l'appel du vide which is perfectly normal if disconcerting.

You see a potentially dangerous situation and think 'What if I...'

I get the urge to jump from railway platforms onto slow-moving unladen container wagons. It's not going to happen but my brain teases me with the idea.
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Funny that - I have the same urge when looking down (from a pier or such) at a raging sea. Never going to happen either.
 
escargot said:
It's like l'appel du vide which is perfectly normal if disconcerting.

You see a potentially dangerous situation and think 'What if I...'

I get the urge to jump from railway platforms onto slow-moving unladen container wagons. It's not going to happen but my brain teases me with the idea.
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That would be a once in a lifetime experience...
 
Another event that this thread reminds me of, that has always haunted me:
My oldest daughter was an intrepid hiker and often set out on trails on her own. Once she was out west somewhere, I think in Wyoming somewhere, and took a solo hike up a mountain to a cliff top with a great view. Sitting on the cliff top, she was suddenly overcome with the idea that she should jump off. She said it was very much as if some foreign entity had entered her mind and was urging her to jump. She really had to wrestle against the urge. She was very upset by this experience, not least by the realization that there might be such entities in this world.
 
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This 2020 Healthline article provides an overview of the 'call of the void' phenomenon from a medical / psychological perspective.
Demystifying the Call of the Void

Have you ever stood on a roof, a bridge, a ledge, or any other high place and wondered, “What if I jumped?” This urge probably came out of nowhere and disappeared as swiftly as it arrived.

Turns out, this urge has a name. The call of the void (in French, l’appel du vide) describes this impulse to hurl yourself into, well, a void. While unnerving, it’s actually a pretty common experience. It also has nothing to do with suicidal ideation.

In fact, a 2012 study — the only one exploring this phenomenon to date — suggests this urge may have a relatively straightforward, scientific explanation.

What are some common examples?

The call of the void is also known as high place phenomenon (HPP), since people often feel it when standing somewhere high up. You could also experience this type of impulse when doing other things that involve a high risk of danger.

For example, call of the void can involve thoughts or urges to:
  • jerk the steering wheel and turn into oncoming traffic while driving
  • jump into very deep water from a boat or bridge
  • stand on train or subway tracks or jump in front of a train
  • cut yourself when holding a knife or other sharp object
  • put a metal object into an electrical outlet
  • stick your hand into a fire or garbage disposal

Is it normal?

Yep, this feeling is both normal and common.

The authors of that 2012 study found that among 431 students:
  • More than half of those who reported never having suicidal thoughts experienced HPP in some way, either imagining jumping or having an urge to jump.
  • About three-quarters of those who had previously experienced some kind of suicidal ideation experienced HPP.
  • People with more sensitivity to anxiety symptoms but fewer suicidal thoughts seemed more likely to experience HPP

What causes it?

No one knows for sure. The authors of the first and only study (so far) to look at HPP have offered a bit of insight.

After interviewing 431 undergrad students with varying mental health backgrounds, they concluded that HPP is likely related to the wiring of your brain. ...
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FULL STORY: https://www.healthline.com/health/call-of-the-void
 
Here are the bibliographic details and abstract from the 2012 research study cited in the Healthline article.

Jennifer L. Hames, Jessica D. Ribeiro, April R. Smith, Thomas E. Joiner,
An urge to jump affirms the urge to live: An empirical examination of the high place phenomenon
Journal of Affective Disorders, Volume 136, Issue 3, 2012, Pages 1114-1120.
ISSN 0165-0327,
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jad.2011.10.035.

Abstract
Background
The experience of a sudden urge to jump when in a high place has been speculated to be associated with suicidal ideation; however, scant data has informed this speculation. We termed this experience the high place phenomenon (HPP) and proposed that it stems from a misinterpreted safety signal (i.e., survival instinct). The present study aimed to assess the prevalence of the HPP, to provide evidence that the phenomenon is not exclusive to suicide ideators, and to explore the role of anxiety sensitivity in the phenomenon.

Methods
431 undergraduate college students completed online measures of lifetime frequency of experiencing the HPP, suicidal ideation, anxiety sensitivity, depressive symptoms, and history of mood episodes.

Results
The HPP was commonly reported in the general population, even among participants with no history of suicidal ideation. There was a significant correlation between anxiety sensitivity and the HPP, and this relationship was moderated by level of current suicidal ideation. Particularly, the relationship between anxiety sensitivity and the HPP was potentiated among participants with low levels of suicidal ideation.

Limitations
The cross-sectional design of the study limits the strength of the conclusions that can be drawn.

Conclusions
The HPP is commonly experienced among suicide ideators and non-ideators alike. Thus, individuals who report experiencing the phenomenon are not necessarily suicidal; rather, the experience of HPP may reflect their sensitivity to internal cues and actually affirm their will to live.
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SOURCE: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165032711006847
 
This new Live Science article is an updated overview of the subject and research into it.
What is the 'call of the void'?

Have you ever stood on a balcony, leaned over the edge and unexpectedly thought, "If I wanted to, I could just jump?" Or perhaps you've been at a cliff's edge, with the intention of doing nothing more than enjoying the view and fleetingly considered how easy it would be to simply step over the edge. This sudden, often unanticipated thought is usually nothing to be worried about, but it certainly warrants exploration.

This feeling — which tends to be brief, entirely out of character and often involves thoughts of leaping from a high place or driving headfirst into an oncoming vehicle — is more widespread than you might think. ...

But even though many individuals — over half of people, two small studies suggest — have reportedly experienced the call of the void, it hasn't been studied widely. ...

The first significant study on the phenomenon, published in 2012 in the Journal of Affective Disorders, surveyed 431 undergraduate students, and found that just over half of those who had never had suicidal thoughts had experienced aspects of the phenomenon at least once, whereas over 75% of lifetime suicide ideators, or people who have suicidal thoughts or ideas, reported experiencing the urge to jump from the window of a tall building or from a bridge. ...

The study showcased, for the first time, that there was not an exclusive link between suicidal ideation and experiencing sudden, unanticipated thoughts related to placing oneself in imminent danger. In effect, the study determined that there was a clear difference between an individual imagining the possibility of leaping from a high place and wanting to act on it. ...

A more recent study, published in 2020 in the journal BMC Psychiatry, also investigated whether the call of the void was more prevalent in people with suicidal ideation than those with no suicidal ideation, as some people who reported feeling the call of the void were concerned it could signal something more troubling about their mental state.

"In our outpatient clinic, people repeatedly presented themselves with the question of whether they were suicidal," study lead researcher Tobias Teismann ...

Teismann recruited 276 adults who filled in an online questionnaire, as well as 94 participants who were experiencing a "clinically-relevant fear of flying," meaning they had sought medical or psychological assistance in an attempt to overcome their phobia. Teismann looked at both groups to investigate "the prevalence of the phenomenon across both samples," he said.

The study found that those who had experienced suicidal thoughts were also likely to have felt the call of the void than those without suicidal ideation, but Teismann doesn't believe this reveals a link between experiencing the call and wanting to harm oneself. "The phenomenon is more often reported by people who react to body signals rather anxiously," he explained. In other words, people who experience shaking, light dizziness and/or muscle twitches are more likely to recall experiencing the phenomenon. ...
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FULL STORY: https://www.livescience.com/what-is-call-of-the-void
 
Here are the bibliographic details and abstract from the 2020 German study cited in Live Science. The full research report is accessible at the link below.
Teismann, T., Brailovskaia, J., Schaumburg, S., & Wannemüller, A. (2020).
High place phenomenon: prevalence and clinical correlates in two German samples.
BMC psychiatry, 20(1), 478.
https://doi.org/10.1186/s12888-020-02875-8
Abstract

Background
The high place phenomenon, that is, a sudden urge to jump when in a high place, is an experience known to many people, that has rarely been studied. The present study aimed to assess the prevalence of the high place phenomenon in a non-clinical and a clinical German sample. Furthermore, clinical correlates of the experience were assessed.

Methods
The study sample comprised 276 participants (67% female; Mage = 32.08, SDage = 10.73) who took part in an online assessment and 94 patients (73.4% female; Mage = 49.26, SDage = 13.32) suffering from clinically relevant fear of flying. Participants filled out questionnaires on experiences with the high place phenomenon, depression, anxiety, suicide ideation and anxiety sensitivity.

Results
The high place phenomenon was known to nearly 60% of the online sample and to 45% of the patient sample. Suicide ideation as well as anxiety sensitivity were positively associated with experiences with the high place phenomenon in the online sample. Depression, anxiety and suicide ideation were unrelated to experiences with the phenomenon in the patient sample.

Conclusion
The high place phenomenon is commonly reported by (lifetime/current) suicide ideators. However, it is also a common experience in individuals who have never suffered from suicide ideation. It is therefore cautioned not to interpret such experiences as an expression of a hidden death wish.

SOURCE / FULL REPORT: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7525079/
 
I don't think it's been mentioned above, but the thought that popped into my mind was about nirvana, or similar. That we sort of have an inbuilt thing about becoming one with the universe and annihilating the self? And chucking yourself off a high place would kind of accomplish that (albeit in a more permanent fashion than getting really drunk or high or getting super good at meditation).
just a thought. I suppose it would be interesting to check on what people's main emotions were at the time (calmness, fear, 'do it do it', curiosity or what).
 
Nice to know I'm not the only one.
 
Eponastill said:
And so would you like to describe what is going on in your head/body when you experience it?
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Same as OP, pretty much. A feeling of wanting to jump. I get it without necessarily being thousands of feet up, a third floor balcony is enough.

It would be better as a survival thing if the 'feeling' was 'No, you absolutely don't want to jump'. But maybe that would be counter-productive as well? No abnormal feeling at all would presumably be best.

Seriously, it does worry me, especially as I have had had some pretty down periods over the last 5 years. But the reaction to high places has been there since I was a teenager at least. At some periods in my life it's been stronger than others.
 
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