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Wills: Documenting Your Final Wishes

rynner2

Gone But Not Forgotten
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Joined
Aug 7, 2001
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NOTE: This line of discussion has been spun off from the Great Expectations thread, which is focused on actual wills, bequests and issues arising with them.
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I should really get around to making a will myself.

The reason I haven't up till now is that I've never had any wealth or property to leave anyone. And my few possessions would hardly have covered the cost of my funeral!

But recently, and unexpectedly, I inherited some money myself. Now, barring some horrible collapse in the social order, this should be enough for me to live on for at least another twenty years or more.

However, accidents do happen, and sudden diseases may strike, so I may not be around that long. Although I have two children, I've not seen them for over 20 years, and they show little interest in keeping in touch, and I believe they are better off in every way than I was at their age anyway!

A local solicitor offers to make wills for free, provide they include a donation to Cancer Relief, which sounds a good idea. And of course, there are many other worthy charities looking for money...

Decisions, decisions....

But if I die intestate, I believe the government would get the lot
- and that would never do!

Any other thoughts?
 
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Mine includes some "fun" items which will trigger if and when the only people who might need my help predecease me - in that case most of it goes to my church's charities with the exceptions being

* money behind the bar at various pubs I've loved (not that they'll remember me I hope)

* a couple of £100 to various people who never expected anything when they did something I admired or thought was noteworthy, and may well not even have noticed I noticed, if you see what I mean.

Kath
 
stonedog2 said:
Mine includes some "fun" items which will trigger if and when...
Ah, yes, happy memories of writing BASIC programs on my early computers! :D

I had thought of having a few "IF....THEN" clauses myself (To my nephew Clarence, £500, provided he gets a haircut and passes a breath-test at the reading of this will...), but haven't hit upon any that are quite satisfactory.

And they would look rather pretentious if my estate at my decease has a negative balance! :shock:

But I agree Wills should be Fun, and not create aggro amongst potential legatees.
 
Yeah - there's a global test at the top to see if there is any money to start with..... :lol:

The solicitor said it was like a pascal program. Personally I think in Prolog but I confess that you've nailed it Ryn. *scuttles off to add codicil concerning distinguished and perceptive gentleman on message board* ;)

So what're your fun bits? And are we about to get moved to chat?

Kath
 
stonedog2 said:
So what're your fun bits? And are we about to get moved to chat?
rynner covers fun bits with hands... :oops:

Well, I guess this chatty part could well be moved into the 'Growing Old..' thread (which is, for some inexplicable reason, already in Chat :roll: ).....
 
Something that might affect any of us:

Call for tighter will-writing laws as consumers duped
By Vivian White, BBC Panorama

The private will-writing industry across Britain should be more tightly regulated as consumers are losing thousands of pounds to charlatans, a Scottish minister has told Panorama.

Consumers have complained of cheap will offers with escalating hidden costs. Beneficiaries have also had payouts stolen.

The Scottish Government is legislating to offer greater protection, but Fergus Ewing MSP, its minister for community and safety protection said the rest of the UK also needed to be protected.

The Legal Services Board (LSB), which oversees all legal services in England and Wales, has said it would look at "whether a different regulatory approach to will writing is needed".

Mr Ewing said the rest of Britain should follow Scotland's example. "The public have a right to be protected," he said, "in Scotland they will be.

"Anyone who is charging a fee for writing a will must be regulated. They must have appropriate qualification, they must have proper indemnity in place. At present none of this protection exists.

"I hope that justice will be done for people - throughout Britain, ideally - in protection against crooks, cowboys and conmen."

The Panorama investigation uncovered cases where initial will-writing fees of £75-£100 escalated to thousands of pounds, with clients and families of the deceased then being charged fee percentages for handling estates after death, which they were never told about.

One firm lost a will lost even though a fee was being charged for it to be safely stored. Other beneficiaries struggled to receive the money owed to them, and cheques from the firm they were dealing with bounced.

Wills of Distinction, a firm based in Lincoln, stole hundreds of thousands of pounds from its beneficiaries.

These included a hospice for the dying, St John's in north London, which had been left £130,000 by a man with terminal cancer, Paul Jefferson. It relies on charitable donations, but never received a penny.


Mary Neenan, a single mother from Birmingham, was also unexpectedly left a large sum when her friend Herbert Reeves died, but never received anything.

She said: "I brought my two daughters up on my own, and I would never have had that amount of money in my life. To have something like that £35,000-£40,000, would have been a life-changing amount of money for the three of us."

Ms Neenan went to the police, who uncovered the extent of the firm's fraud.
Panorama: Wills - The Final Rip Off?, BBC One, Monday, 9 August at 2030 BST
Or watch on BBC iPlayer
Two men, David Nash, the firm's founder, and Nicholas Butcher, a previously struck-off solicitor whom he employed, were sentenced in July 2010 to three and a half years in prison for their fraud and theft.

Neil Hollingsworth of the Economic Crimes Unit of Lincolnshire Police said:

"It's a despicable crime... I believe they thought they would get away with it.

"A lot of the times, probably 90% of those cases, the beneficiaries didn't know they were beneficiaries and so they weren't asking questions. I guess they probably thought they'd got the perfect crime."

Private will-writing companies now claim to write about 10% of all new wills, and the industry has grown with the increase in home and shared ownership.

More people now have something to leave behind and they are new competitors to old-established providers.
In the past, people either wrote their own wills, or traditionally, if they wanted professional help they had to go to a solicitor. But solicitors are governed by law; will-writing firms are not.

Richard Elmer, a solicitor at Burton and Co in Lincoln said: "We will strive mightily to get everything exactly as it should be.

"But like all solicitors, we are fully insured, we are fully regulated and there is ultimately the solicitors' compensation fund were there to be, God forbid, some mistake made by us."

This is the key difference which solicitors always point to, that on top of their professional training they have a profession-wide indemnity scheme, and profession-wide protection for clients.

There are self-styled professional bodies that represent private will-writers and amongst these there are examples of good practice and attempts at effective self-regulation.

However, there is no regulation by law and consumers are typically unaware of this fact and often appear to believe that will-writing companies are themselves legal firms.

Scotland's new regulations will come in to effect next year.

The Legal Services Board said it would soon be calling for evidence to assess whether regulation is necessary.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10885494
 
Investigation launched into will writing
Mystery shopping exercise finds evidence of sharp sales practice, poor quality wills and lost wills
Jill Insley guardian.co.uk, Thursday 14 July 2011 06.00 BST

A statutory investigation into will writing, probate and estate administration markets has been launched by the Legal Services Board following damning evidence of sharp sales practice, poor quality wills and lost wills where companies disappear without trace.

The move is in response to recommendations by the Legal Services Consumer Panel that will-writing services should be regulated. The panel, established in 2007 to provide independent advice to the Legal Services Board, responsible for overseeing the regulation of lawyers in England and Wales, says all providers would have to demonstrate they are competent to write wills, follow a code of conduct and allow complaints to the Legal Ombudsman.

One in five wills prepared by both unregulated will-writing companies and solicitors were failed by expert assessors in a mystery shopping exercise conducted by the panel.

The panel has called for training standards for solicitors to be raised and for the Office of Fair Trading to lead an enforcement campaign targeted at the minority of will-writing companies responsible for the worst sales practices such as pressure selling and exorbitant prices.

The worst examples of malpractice included:

• Married clients whose will purported to leave life insurance policies in trust. It was discovered only after the husband's death that the trust in the will was invalid as it failed to provide for any beneficiaries. This failure may end up costing the widow many thousands of pounds in inheritance tax, but the will-writing company denied responsibility, saying the will was prepared by their franchisee for which they had no current address.

• Hampshire Citizens Advice clients were pressured into buying will-writing services in their home following an approach at a shopping centre. Initially they were told wills would cost £35 each, but the eventual cost was £3,000 which the salesperson advised them to pay then so that it would not be deducted from the estate. The agreement included the firm having a right to 1% of the estate, storage and an annual check of the wills, monthly payments and counselling for family members.

• A firm offered to store client wills at the national wills depository at Somerset House. In reality they were stored in a barn in Wincanton, in Somerset. When the business closed, the wills were rescued by another will-writing firm, but further anguish was caused when they demanded payment from clients for their wills to be returned to them or payment from them for ongoing storage of the wills to be arranged.

Dr Dianne Hayter, chair of the Legal Services Consumer Panel, said: "A will may have huge personal and financial consequences for those who we care about most. It's vital that advisers do a competent job, especially since any defects are unlikely to be discovered until it's too late to fix them.

"The panel was shocked by the poor quality of wills in the mystery shopping. Although the sample was small, will-writing companies and solicitors were equally culpable, pointing to the need for tighter controls across the sector. Only by requiring all providers to be regulated and to demonstrate their competence can consumers enjoy peace of mind that their final wishes will be respected whoever prepares their will.

etc...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/ju ... ll-writing
 
Homeowners beware!

Whose house is it anyway? Geoffrey Boycott test case could hit homeowners for six
By Ian Cowie Your Money Last updated: October 28th, 2011

Thousands of homeowners’ plans to leave property to their heirs could be hit for six by an obscure legal definition which Geoffrey Boycott, the cricket legend, has described as “double-Dutch”.

Mr Boycott went on to lose a test case in the High Court about the ownership of a home in the millionaires’ resort of Sandbanks, Dorset. But with the average house price now exceeding £161,000, according to the Halifax House Price Index, questions about who has legal title to property could have a major impact on much more modest households.

Now lawyers say many people – especially unmarried couples or those who have contributed unequally to the purchase of a home – may be caught out if they are unaware of the distinction between owning property as ‘joint tenants’ or ‘tenants in common’.

No wonder the straight-talking Yorkshireman suggested the difference was difficult to understand. But the legal jargon could mean other couples’ plans to bequeath or inherit property are stumped.

The Court heard that Mr Boycott bought a three-bedroom house overlooking Poole Harbour for his “friend and confidante” Anne Wyatt in 1996. Mr Boycott told the court he allowed Mrs Wyatt to live in the house rent-free, although they were no longer partners, for as long as she lived.

They were listed on the deeds as joint tenants. But when Mrs Wyatt died in 2009, aged 82, her half of the house went to her estate instead of to Mr Boycott. To his “huge surprise”, he discovered that Mrs Wyatt had changed the agreement in 2007 to a tenancy in common so that she could leave her share of the property to her heirs.

Andrew Goldstone, head of tax and wealth planning at Mishcon de Reya explained: “With a tenancy in common, when one joint owner dies they can leave their share to whoever they want in their will. That’s a big advantage where joint owners are neither married nor in a long-term relationship, since they won’t necessarily want their share to go the other on their death. Tenancy in common also makes sense for couples who each have their own children from an earlier relationship.

“It is possible to convert a joint tenancy to a tenancy in common but not the other way round. The technical term for bringing a joint tenancy to an end is called “severing the joint tenancy” and it’s very easy to do. It can be by mutual agreement, in which case the joint owners will usually document in what shares they will then own the property.

“However, it can also be done by just one of the joint owners giving written notice to the other. That sometimes happens when a couple are splitting up and one of them wants to be sure that if they die, the whole property won’t go to their ex-partner. This can mean that what was intended at the time of purchase can be overridden by one party alone. Once notice of severance is given to the other party it is too late to change.”

etc...

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ia ... s-for-six/
 
I should really get around to making a will myself.

The reason I haven't up till now is that I've never had any wealth or property to leave anyone. And my few possessions would hardly have covered the cost of my funeral!

But recently, and unexpectedly, I inherited some money myself. Now, barring some horrible collapse in the social order, this should be enough for me to live on for at least another twenty years or more.

However, accidents do happen, and sudden diseases may strike, so I may not be around that long. Although I have two children, I've not seen them for over 20 years, and they show little interest in keeping in touch, and I believe they are better off in every way than I was at their age anyway!

A local solicitor offers to make wills for free, provide they include a donation to Cancer Relief, which sounds a good idea. And of course, there are many other worthy charities looking for money...

Decisions, decisions....

But if I die intestate, I believe the government would get the lot
- and that would never do!

Any other thoughts?

have you thought anymore about this?
 
Making a will: Sharp rise for intestate queries

The number of enquiries about people who have died without making a will has more than doubled over the past five years, Citizens Advice says.
The charity told BBC 5 live Daily it had 1,522 such queries in 2011, rising to 3,747 in 2015, along with a rise in queries about problems executing wills.

According to a YouGov survey, nearly two thirds of the British adult population do not have a will.
Lawyers say not leaving one can cause financial stress for loved ones.

Last month it emerged that the musician Prince died without a will - a situation known as intestacy. A bank was brought in to manage his assets, worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
...

According to the YouGov survey of 1,794 adults, 38% of the public in England and Wales had a will in 2015, up from 35% in 2014.
The poll was conducted by YouGov for the Legal Services Consumer Panel Tracker Survey 2015.

Brian, who did not wish to give his surname, administered his cousin Peter's estate after he died without making a will, leaving an estate worth about £700,000.
The process took about two years, cost thousands of pounds and resulted in 17 people, some of whom had never met Peter, splitting his estate.

Brian said: "We had to pay £240,000 in inheritance tax so that hurts. If he had gone to a solicitor or a nice little company which I've used, they would have sorted all that out for him.
"It took two years of my life. I really took it on as a bit of a challenge really, and I felt obliged to do it because we were fairly close, and I just felt I had to do it.
"I think my message to everyone would be to please make a will, because then you can give your money to the people of your choice."

Jonathan Smithers from the Law Society, which represents solicitors in England and Wales, said it was important for people to make a will, especially those with children or property or financial investments.
"A will helps to ensure that your assets are divided among the family, friends and charities of your choice, and can help you manage the amount of inheritance tax you pay," he said.

"Thousands of people die every year without making a will or without one that has been properly drafted. If you die without a will your final wishes may well go unheeded, and your loved ones may have to cope with additional financial stress at a time of bereavement."

What happens if there is no will?

If someone dies without a will, rules dictate how their money, property or possessions should be allocated, and potentially not in the way the deceased would have wished

Unmarried partners and partners who have not registered a civil partnership cannot inherit from each other unless there is a will

If there are no surviving relatives who can inherit under the rules of intestacy, the estate passes to the Crown

Specific rules can vary across the United Kingdom


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36325871

I still haven't got round to making a will. My 'loved ones' have either dropped off their perch, or dropped out of the picture over the years. So it would come down to nominating a few charities as beneficiaries - decisions, decisions!

Part of the problem is I don't know who I can trust. The last solicitor I had (following my marriage break-up) proved to be pretty useless, and was later struck off for some unrelated matter.

And, depending on how much longer I survive, will there be any loot left after funeral expenses? (I know there are schemes available where you can pre-pay funeral expenses, but again, can I trust them?)

Perhaps it's best if my estate passes to the Crown - then all you Brits will in theory benefit, even if, in practice, it's only to a microscopic degree!
:twisted:
 
I should have done this yonks ago.

I think I ought to now.

what do I do?
 
I should have done this yonks ago.

I think I ought to now.

what do I do?
The practicalities vary depending on where you are. For example in Scotland a will written in your normal handwriting and signed is ok, this is not ok in the rest of the U.K. which has to have the signing witnessed by two people.
 
More generally ... Each jurisdiction will have its own rules regarding what constitutes a valid will that can be readily admitted into the probate process.

Wills failing to meet whatever requirements / thresholds are set by law would be subject to scrutiny by a court before being admitted to probate.
 
I'm not sure but I think the witnesses can't be beneficiaries, but you'd need to check.

They shouldn't be beneficiaries if you want a court to pass the will into probate at face value.
 
I should have done this yonks ago.

I think I ought to now.

what do I do?

As an adult, I feel it's essential to have a will and a current one at that. It's vital that if you should die, that your wishes are met and your estate is divided as per your wishes. It's also kind to those left behind. The last thing your loved ones want is to be sorting out a potentially long legal mess during a time of bereavement.
 
I'm in the UK (England) and my mother made her will 2 years ago.
Myself and my brother were the only beneficiaries, and both named as executors.
We had to have a separate person, not related, or a beneficiary, who could 'witness' the will.
We had a local solicitors draw up the will on her behalf, they did a personal visit to her in her care home and kept the original copy of the will on file.
When she died recently it was a simple matter of collecting the will from the solicitors after showing them the death certificate.
What is now taking a long time is Grant of Probate which allows us to conclude her final wishes from her will (that being dividing her estate/money between us) and the Grant of Probate can take up to eight weeks to be issued assuming nobody contests the will. Anecdotally I'm told that it has been known to take 2 or 3 years to complete Grant of Probate!!!
Hopefully for us, seeing as it is very simple what with all her financial affairs and house sale and belongings and possessions all being sorted while she was alive, just leaving the money in the bank, we'll get that Grant of Probate quickly.
 
Oh also for Grant of Probate you need to show to HMRC that there are no tax issues regarding the estate. I believe anything over a total estate value of £325,000 and things start to get messy.
 
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