Greta Thunberg

Cochise

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2 questions for those toting pitchforks and blazing torches:

1) Who would you find credible as a figurehead for the environmental movement?

2) Where are your threads expressing concern for the young girls whose parents are pressuring them to make it big in professional sport? ballet? fashion? the music industry? the family farm? etc. etc.

I am concerned about 2, actually - for children of both sexes. Too often parents try to make their children into what the parent actually wanted to be rather than what the child actually wants, or want the child to carry on in the family firm or tradition. It's a subject I could talk about at considerable length, especially as I realised I erred somewhat in that way myself with my own child.

Not especially Fortean though.
 

Krepostnoi

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I am concerned about 2, actually - for children of both sexes. Too often parents try to make their children into what the parent actually wanted to be rather than what the child actually wants, or want the child to carry on in the family firm or tradition. It's a subject I could talk about at considerable length, especially as I realised I erred somewhat in that way myself with my own child.
I appreciate your candour, there.
Not especially Fortean though.
Well, quite. I'm not sure anything in this thread is. All it's doing is sowing more discord, and that's the last thing we need. I think it's past time for it to make a discreet exit.
 

gordonrutter

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I appreciate your candour, there.

Well, quite. I'm not sure anything in this thread is. All it's doing is sowing more discord, and that's the last thing we need. I think it's past time for it to make a discreet exit.
You’re not the only one who thinks that!
I’m getting to the opinion this thread has pretty much run it’s course and it should be put out of it’s misery.
 

Xanatic*

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We have a person turned into a media sensation, even talking at the UN with no qualifications other than youthful enthusiasm, and no media willing to question or criticise her. That seems enough reason for me to keep this thread going.
 

Ringo

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Can we perhaps agree that jokes about her death are not required?
Quite.

Anybody actually angry at Greta needs to take a long, hard look at themselves and perhaps a few deep breaths. It is the situation surrounding her 15 minutes in the spotlight which is of interest or in question, not the girl herself.
 
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Ermintruder

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It is the situation surrounding her 15 minutes in the spotlight which is of interest or in question,
Precisely this. I disbelieve very-nearly all outputs from news media, and in that respect her represention is a particularly-interesting example.

I do not disrespect what is being seen as her atypical neurology in any way whatsoever, but do see her (as a person) as being misused.
 

James_H

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I think she is a little like Malala in that she's a young girl politicians are using as a visible symbol of conscience. Who does and doesn't become a celebrity these days is very much a case of random chance, and Greta is a celebrity whether she'd like to see herself that way or not. Like Malala, I expect she will be longer be in the spotlight after a year or so, and things will go on much as before.
 

GerdaWordyer

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I'm still curious about how passengers should best cross oceans. I don't see adventure yachting as an example of an option. Cargo ships pollute horribly, but they do carry necessities across whereas cruise ships, as far as I can tell, carry nothing but buffets and human poo. Prop planes--how does their fuel efficiency compare with jet fuel? Or should jetliners add stringent weight restrictions and pack even more passengers in? Can some research fast track electric transcontinental planes? Make safe a new Age of Sail? Of course a lot of business and some diplomatic functions should emphasize telecommuting rather than actual travel, but what if I wanted set foot in Hawaii?
 

James_H

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I just read a Jerry pournelle story that featured a nuclear-powered prop plane that could stay in the air for weeks. That strikes me as a good idea, up until the point it crashes of course.
 

Krepostnoi

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When the Mrs watched the indignant Greta vid she said to Greta That's nice dear .. now have you tidied your bedroom :rollingw:
It's instructive to see the marked contrast in attitudes towards the subjects of this thread and the Jordan Petersen thread. The latter, be it noted, a full-grown adult with a penchant for advising others to basically man up. But the poor man's been through a hard time recently, so don't say anything too nasty about him. :rolleyes:
 

maximus otter

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It's instructive to see the marked contrast in attitudes towards the subjects of this thread and the Jordan Petersen thread. The latter, be it noted, a full-grown adult with a penchant for advising others to basically man up. But the poor man's been through a hard time recently, so don't say anything too nasty about him. :rolleyes:
As far as I’m aware, implementation of JP’s ideas wouldn’t blast us back to a horse and cart economy.

GT is either an insightful expert, in which case she and her ideas are open to rigorous challenge; or she’s an ideologue spouting lines written for her by manipulators, in which case she should be ignored.

It should be transparently obvious that she’s a (b), exploited solely because of her mental condition. Apparently, believing that makes us Bad People, which is the whole point of GT’s use.

maximus otter
 
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Krepostnoi

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GT is either an insightful expert, in which case she and her ideas are open to rigorous challenge
Fair enough. I'm still waiting to see anything on this thread that remotely resembles rigorous challenge, though. Instead, it's all Greta Thunberg helpline videos, and "shouldn't she be in school?".
As far as I’m aware, implementation of JP’s ideas wouldn’t blast us back to a horse and cart economy.
You keep spouting this factoid, or variations on it. Since we've mentioned rigorous challenge, perhaps you want to show us your workings?
 

Ogdred Weary

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Is anyone having a go at Greta due to her Asperger's? The main concern is that she's been exposed to much publicity and hostility whilst still a child, or at least before she's legally adult, surely?
 

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Walter.jpg

Please read and digest.

This thread has gone awry and we have received a number of complaints about the content and especially about the tone of contributions.

Personally, I'd pretty much abandoned the topic as one having slumped into the gutter, but I find that I'm dragged back to try and explain what is and is not acceptable, and why those complaints--not all from the fragile of skin--have washed in.

1. Politics.

On the very first page, posters were attempting to drag a very narrow topic ('the Greta Thunberg Phenomenon') into a wider one: the climate change debate and the left-right divide within it. Clearly there's a connection, but picking up on single fibres and pulling them to enlarge the hole is damned unhelpful.

Take for instance (I intend to spare no blushes in an attempt to do the job properly):
Really? Try finding an anti-AGW item in a politician's speech, in the mainstream media or on TV news.

The cry "listen to the teenagers/give teens the vote" always comes from one end of the political spectrum. This is because kids haven't experienced reality, e.g. paying bills and taxes, therefore will tend to support the party that promises them the most "free" stuff.

maximus otter
Yeah. No. Stop this.

2. Tendentious hobby-horses.

This debate has nothing to do with race or age or the fact that 'old white men' are some kind of crap political trope. Dragging those topics out of the tiniest perceived germ of an idea is going to take us off topic very quickly and piss off a lot of the membership, because just as reasonable people don't lump together 'young black men' for censure, they don't much like the opposite. Not everybody is reasonable, but we try to be here. Hence, you will be challenged here when you make crass generalisations about any group. If you have a point to make, do it properly or don't do it at all; if you do do it, do it on the right damned thread--this is the Greta Thunberg thread, the name is at the top.

We need a hero, someone to stand up to old, rich white men.
So what she doesn't now have an opinion? Up to the attic with you dear Greta... Yes, we should only listen to white men who take pleasure from shooting things. That's always worked well.
Not really. Old White men have been running the world since way before even Cecil Rhodes. here's a list of the current richest:

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/richest-people-in-world-forbes/18/ mostly old white males.

Here's a list of the most powerful people ok not all white but mostly old and mostly male:

https://www.forbes.com/powerful-people/list/#tab:overall

Powerful and rich old white men don't really need defending as they own everything and control what we see and hear.

I'm getting old I'm white and male and I have no problem with people pointing the finger at us.
3. Drive-by sniping.

If you don't have the time or the inclination to engage with the topic, don't post. On CHAT threads, you can stand easy; if there's a proper debate in progress, debate or stay silent.

Helen Dale's response to the furore her tweet generated.

I'm now off.

maximus otter
Don't do this. I don't give a damn what Helen Dale's response is if she isn't a member of the Forteana Forums. If you think her words are particularly incisive, introduce them with reasons for your belief, or, better still, selectively quote, paraphrase and link. This kind of post is just lazy and most members won't bother clicking on the link anyway.

Worse still is when we get long-standing members posting a complete waste of pixels:

So do a lot of the girls on porn sites; or so I'm told.
I, too, may be guilty of this kind of thing at times ('I'm so witty'), but if I am guilty, I'm far from alone.

We all need to play up if we're going to approach halfway serious topics in any meaningful way.

If you want to wittily play, take it to CHAT.

And, leading into the next heading, we have a fantastic example of two sins at once (3 & 4):

I resisted calls to delete this as I generally err on the side of non-censorship (no, really, INT21), but I think it falls substantially below the level or intelligence we expect here--and, indeed, the level that our local Otter has demonstrated himself to possess.

4. Being obnoxious.

Believe it or not, it is possible to say that somebody is wrong, or that you don't like them, without mordantly grinding them into the dust with unpleasant allusions, personal insults and leering cries at their defeat. This has been the most significant problem so far. I am not saying any of the points quoted beneath (or the similar ones unquoted) are necessarily wrong at core, they're just nasty.

"She does not hold scientific qualifications in the subject she speaks on" becomes:

Greta Thunberg - or, to accord her her full scientific qualifications - Greta Thunberg...
"Her ideas are vague and poorly formed" becomes:

a challenging interview during which her ideas - if any - can be expressed and judged.
Instead of being controlled by her parents and their associates, she is not really a human, she's a puppet:

It suits her puppeteers
The message is loud and clear to those who have eyes and ears and who will listen. The promotion of a puppet telling you things are bad isn’t really helping. Actually, a proper puppet would be even more environmentally friendly. It wouldn’t need a team of people flying around the planet to ferry it about.
Or perhaps she's a were-child who transforms between a brattish kid and an animal with handlers?

So, let me see. We have a stroppy little girl who has a load of discredited politicians fawning over her and who has pissed off pretty much everyone else. Good move, her handlers.
Now we're into her bodily functions, jolly good:

Now she’s on a boat and shitting in a plastic bucket.
Now she's a brat:

And she booted out a bunch of journalists from the conference which broke out, predictably, in hysteria and tears before bedtime.
Now we're into dismissive expletives (fine, but why?). Analogue Boy does a good line in reductive swearing--I've laughed out loud at his pithy distillations--but this isn't one of them:

...all this child indulgence shit just makes me switch off.
Glee at her faults:

Ha so it turns out she's a hypocrite...
Thanks, but this one isn't getting us far either:

She is very annoying...
More mordant sarcasm beneath. Strip it away for a translation: you have limited interest in autistic children.

Fine, me too, but I haven't posted that here because it's bloody irrelevant:

If she saved her energies for memorising train timetables; or drawing photorealistic cityscapes; or learning a third, fourth and fifth language, I'd be interested in an "I'd watch a 90-second YouTube video on that" kind of way.
It gets worse. I like black humour. Actually, I really like black humour, but on a public message board, it is not a good look for the jokes to veer into her potential death.

Reasons:

A) It isn't very nice--she hasn't really done anything to deserve death that I can see.

B) I don't want anything to jeopardise the board and our forum for discussing Forteana. As ever, risks are low, but the world has gone mad lately. People are arrested, boycotted, fired and convicted for jokes on the Internet.

James has long been one of our best, but I really wish he hadn't brought this up. I assume it was a metaphor and he doesn't expect an actual gunshot, but it's an unfortunate one.

Dear Greta, avoid grassy knolls. :thought:
I've been thinking much the same thing.
This one's pretty rough.

No-one would have to shoot her. Just say "No" to her a few times, and her veins would pop.
In conclusion, if we cannot continue without an end to the problems I have raised, we will not continue at all.

Furthermore, these points should be taken as applying across the board. We will not have political arguments ushered in through the back door, for the reasons we have rehearsed ad nauseam.

On this thread, discuss Greta Thunberg if you wish, but drop the sneer and the snark and remember there's a human somewhere at the eye of the storm. If posters truly believe she is a puppet as they have claimed, then they should stop wasting their ire on her personally and get into a serious dissection of those who doing the exploiting.

Edited to add: none of this is personal and nobody gets a yellow card; I'm just taking care of business so we can play on.
 

Cochise

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I'm hesitant about responding, but I still think there is a point here regarding her public image. If she (or her handlers) cause her to become world wide news, then despite her condition I'm still allowed to find her bloody annoying. Even though I recognise that she is not exactly doing what she is doing off her own bat.

If that is unacceptable then fair enough - I won't bother being annoyed with any public figure any more.

I won't give a list of other public figures I find bloody annoying - it's quite extensive but apart from Noel Edmonds I don't think they have threads on here.
 
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Frideswide

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I'm adding - the amount of complete tosh said about autism here has been astonishing. Try to get things right. There are lots of us here, all you have to do is ask so you can check if the stuff you are writing is remotely accurate. I'm volunteering to be your source - there are lots of us here but the recent displays of ignorance and sheer willingness to use any smear regardless of its relevance or accuracy may well mean people don't want to out themselves.

If you want to use a disability to

* be rude about someone
* patronise them
* limit what they are or are not allowed to do
* peddle data about that disability that went out around 1950, especially after the Nazis lost WW2

Then think again. It's old, it's tired and it's damaging to other people.

We are better than this.

Frideswide.
 

Frideswide

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I'm hesitant about responding, but I still think there is a point here regarding her public image. If she (or her handlers) cause her to become world wide news, then despite her condition I'm still allowed to find her bloody annoying. Even though I recognise that she is not exactly doing what she is doing off her own bat.

If that is unacceptable then fair enough - I won't bother being annoyed with any public figure any more.

I won't give a list of other public figures I find bloody annoying - it's quite extensive but apart from Noel Edmonds I don't think they have threads on here.

I am delighted to be able to reassure you!

This is a non-concern you are posting about @Cochise. Re-read what @Yithian just posted.

Frides
 

Cochise

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I am delighted to be able to reassure you!

This is a non-concern you are posting about @Cochise. Re-read what @Yithian just posted.

Frides
Thanks Frides. Being annoyed with someone is not the same as wishing them harm. I was recently very annoyed with my best friend over Brexit but we have metaphorically kissed and made up even though our difference of opinion remains.
 

Yithian

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I have he is a clinical psychologist who the far right love and his is anti lgbqa rights.so in other words he's a bigot.
Please read the long post I put together that asked everybody to stay on topic and not caricature people.

This is not a thread about Jordan Peterson, his alleged bigotry or the far-right.
 

Ogdred Weary

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I don't wish to contribute further other than to make one point, my comment in reply to James Whitehead's post about grassy knolls wasn't meant to be glib or gloating and I am far from wishing harm upon her. I'm genuinely worried that some vile person or people might attempt to physically harm or kill her and that they might succeed.

We live in unstable and deeply nasty times and humans can be unpleasant enough at the best times. Jo Cox was murdered in recent years and women publicly involved in politics are constantly bombarded with death and rape threats. A friend got rape threats for having the temerity to gather food for refugees recently. The anger directed at Greta disgusts me. I am broadly on her side, though this is a complex issue. I am however deeply cynical about those behind her.

I apologise if I have come across as snarky towards her or people with Autistic spectrum issues, I have only been concerned for her as a young person, not as someone with said issues.
 

INT21

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Have to admit I skipped most of the posts in this thread when it started getting nasty.

And for the reason that she will cause nothing to change. Sad but probably true.
I can't understand why anyone should wish her any harm.

Megadeth,

There is a thread on Peterson should you wish to contribute to it.

INT21.

Addendum, I see you have.
 
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Mythopoeika

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I'm still curious about how passengers should best cross oceans. I don't see adventure yachting as an example of an option. Cargo ships pollute horribly, but they do carry necessities across whereas cruise ships, as far as I can tell, carry nothing but buffets and human poo. Prop planes--how does their fuel efficiency compare with jet fuel? Or should jetliners add stringent weight restrictions and pack even more passengers in? Can some research fast track electric transcontinental planes? Make safe a new Age of Sail? Of course a lot of business and some diplomatic functions should emphasize telecommuting rather than actual travel, but what if I wanted set foot in Hawaii?
Hot-air balloon or gas-filled dirigible.
Prop planes are now a lot more efficient than they used to be. They are much slower than jets but are more fuel efficient for shorter journeys.
I think jets are the biggest problem. They spread air pollution far and wide from a great height, spread water vapour in the upper atmosphere, burn huge amounts of fuel. For most journeys, we should use prop planes.
 

INT21

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Prop planes can't climb above the turbulance in the same way as jets. Air is too thin for the props to 'bite'.
 

Kondoru

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Is staying at home allowed? Though the flak I get for having the insolence to do this when I could be out supporting some tenth rated countries economy because I am too poor to travel suggests otherwise.

And when is she going to go bezerk? She looks like she has tendencies that way, doesnt she?

(Shes going to come unstuck these days, mark my words)
 
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