Greta Thunberg

ShadyCavalier

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I knew this forum had an underlying current of mildly-bigoted crustiness. This thread confirmed it...

On topic - anyone who gets the world talking about the climate crisis - regardless of their age, background, mental condition or fallibility - deserves a round of applause and, if not that, then at the very least respect.
 

INT21

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I knew this forum had an underlying current of mildly-bigoted crustiness. This thread confirmed it...

On topic - anyone who gets the world talking about the climate crisis - regardless of their age, background, mental condition or fallibility - deserves a round of applause and, if not that, then at the very least respect.
The people who could , or should I say 'could have' made a difference all have vested interests in the status quo.

Nothing will change. The World isn't talking about it. By the end of the month people will be saying 'Greta who ?, oh yes, I remember'.

So it is, was, and always will be.

INT21.
 

EnolaGaia

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... By the end of the month people will be saying 'Greta who ?, oh yes, I remember'. ...
That may eventually happen, but it won't be as soon as the end of this month. Ms. Thunberg is currently touring and speaking in the western USA. Her itinerary includes appearances in Canada and Mexico. From Mexico she will be sailing down the west coast of Central / South America en route to attending an international climate conference in Chile in December.
 

Mikefule

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I'm still curious about how passengers should best cross oceans. I don't see adventure yachting as an example of an option. Cargo ships pollute horribly, but they do carry necessities across whereas cruise ships, as far as I can tell, carry nothing but buffets and human poo. Prop planes--how does their fuel efficiency compare with jet fuel? Or should jetliners add stringent weight restrictions and pack even more passengers in? Can some research fast track electric transcontinental planes? Make safe a new Age of Sail? Of course a lot of business and some diplomatic functions should emphasize telecommuting rather than actual travel, but what if I wanted set foot in Hawaii?
Until the late 20th century, the main ways to cross even a small sea — never mind an ocean — were:

1) Be very rich — certainly from Greek and Roman times onwards.
2) Be a sailor — obvs
3) Be a soldier or sailor in a time of war — again, from Greek and Roman times onwards.
4) Be a criminal and be transported — mainly from the 17th to 19th centuries.
5) Be captured and sold into slavery — throughout maritime history, not just the period we know as "the slave trade". The Greeks, Romans and Vikings traded slaves, as did most other seafaring nations in history.

This idea that the ordinary person (in the affluent west) is somehow entitled to expect overseas holidays is a very new one.

Meanwhile, how many people can really say they've made the most of what their home country has to offer? A seaside holiday that was a rare privilege two or three generations ago is now looked down on as the poor man's option. There are huge parts of my native Britain I have never seen.

However, whatever method you use, travelling slowly is usually more efficient and less destructive to the environment. A ship that cruises at a moderate speed uses considerably less fuel than the same ship at high speed. Throttle back a jet airliner and it will use less fuel. Drive your car more slowly and you will use less fuel and your tyres will last longer.

Many of the perils associated with crossing the ocean under sail can be reduced or elimiated by modern technology. A modern ship does not need miles of natural fibre ropes, many relatively small canvas sails manipulated by muscle power alone, or fragile timber masts and spars. The shape of a ship's hull is no longer dictated by the properties of the timber used to construct it. The modern sea captain has access to real time weather radar, satellite data, and computing power. The modern sailor has access to geared, or even powered, winches. No one has to go up aloft in a storm: everything can be controlled from an enclosed cockpit if that is how the ship is designed.

Modern computer-controlled sail power with an auxiliary engine could produce an efficient and safe vessel easily capable of crossing the ocean.

Look up "super yacht Maltese Falcon" on YouTube. It is a fine example of what can be done.

The main things are for fewer people to travel, and for those who do travel to travel less often, and for everyone who travels to do so more slowly.

Meanwhile, if we could stop buying stuff we don't need, we could stop manufacturing millions of tonnes of tat, at enormous cost to the environment, then shipping — or even flying — it half way round the world at enormous cost to the environment, only to throw it away at enormous cost to the environment.

And back to Greta: most of what she says is true, and I'm sure she's sincere and passionate about the subject. However, she does not know more about it than, say, a 40 year old who has spent their professional life doing research in these areas. Her opinions are those of any intelligent and caring young person who can see the madness of the way the world is, and who fears what the future may hold. She knows more than I do, but she is not an expert; she is a mouthpiece.

Unfortunately, she has been allowed to become a spokesperson for a cause, and she has somehow become the story rather than the narrator. That's what the media and the public do. I have no doubt that she is being and will be manipulated and will eventually be discarded, because that's what happens.

I wish her well as a person, and I do not consider her autism to be relevant except insofar as it may make her more vulnerable to the inevitable backlash.
 

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There must be someone out there who can drag this thread back on topic.

Or is Greta already yesterday's news ?
 

EnolaGaia

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There must be someone out there who can drag this thread back on topic.
Or is Greta already yesterday's news ?
As mentioned earlier, Ms. Thunberg is still in North America, and she's been visiting and addressing events in multiple central and western states.

Ten days ago Ms. Thunberg addressed crowds in Iowa ...

https://www.apnews.com/9c33a6fedba84be18c9be44c3810458a

Then she toured and spoke at multiple Native American reservations in North and South Dakota ...

https://www.apnews.com/e694854cf74f4b31aeb0e3a23a8f56ec
https://www.apnews.com/95d48b8918214e11ab31ec21c565c55e
https://www.apnews.com/c8d1591362f84675829d4676900e56cd

This past weekend she was in Denver ...

https://www.apnews.com/89a50dd66c3f474597ed0941903996ec
https://www.apnews.com/00c8d08e51514dd98d88929501698047
 

AlchoPwn

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TBH IDK why people want to make a "thing" about Greta being an aspie. I have known plenty of aspies. Pretty much every engineering faculty is stacked to the brim with aspies, and many other departments of most Universities too. While they tend to come across as a bit arrogant, your average high functioning aspie is a pretty good person in my experience. So what if they lack some social skills? I know far too many people who are supposed to be functionally normal, but who are also lacking in social skills, but they manage to "pass".
 

Frideswide

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This! ^^^ @AlchoPwn

Autistic comment tends to come from seeing the autism used to belittle or otherwise comment negatively on her - the assumption that she can't have written her own speeches for example, or what is seen as stilted hesitant delivery in open conversation. (That I should be so stilted in a second language!!!!)

I think as well, autism is one of those things where "everyone" feels that they have something to say and that it's relevant. Despite the fact that they are going on Rain Man, the Daily Mail online, and that their taxi drivers's husband's second cousin's aunt once seemed a bit off.
 

AnonyJoolz

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It seems to be a mis-advised target (international air travel) in that the transporting of humans by air accounts for about 2% of global emissions. If you're going to lobby air travel, then maybe going for the eradication of first and business class (wasteful and inefficient use of airplane space) and making the passengers and air operators pay for offset measure would be more productive.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-49349566

Just my opinion - I thoroughly believe the future of us all depends on efficient, frugal use of all our resources. We don;t have to be like Norman serfs, but we have to stop wasting everything ...

Is it just me?

NOTE: Subsequent posts discussing energy wastage / conservation have been moved to their own thread:

Energy: Wasting It; Conserving It
https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/energy-wasting-it-conserving-it.66492/
 
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oxo66

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I can't believe I'm posting on the GT thread in October: the zombie shuffles on...
 
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EnolaGaia

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Ms. Thunberg has been attending meetings, etc., in California this past week.

Her itinerary may be facing some major changes, though ...

She was planning to sail down the west coast of Latin America and attend a UN climate conference in Chile in December.

Chilean President Sebastián Piñera has now canceled the conference (or at least its presence in Chile) owing to the ongoing social unrest there.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-50233678
 

AlchoPwn

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In terms of easing the damage of climate change, the simplest and most workable solution is to plant more trees. To that end, I was pleased to discover a charity that promises to do just that at the very reasonable rate of $1 US=1 tree planted. Needless to say I dropped a pimp's fan on them (1K) by way of an apology to future generations and mother earth. That should pretty much cover most of the carbon emissions I will make over the course of my life and perhaps a few more people besides. They can be found at #teamtrees. I hope that this doesn't go against any forum rules.
 

Mythopoeika

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In terms of easing the damage of climate change, the simplest and most workable solution is to plant more trees. To that end, I was pleased to discover a charity that promises to do just that at the very reasonable rate of $1 US=1 tree planted. Needless to say I dropped a pimp's fan on them (1K) by way of an apology to future generations and mother earth. That should pretty much cover most of the carbon emissions I will make over the course of my life and perhaps a few more people besides. They can be found at #teamtrees. I hope that this doesn't go against any forum rules.
Well done, you!
 

AlchoPwn

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To be fair, not everyone can splash a grand around like that, but I'm rich atm. I wasn't trying to brag, but rather to tell my forum friends that I have put my money where my mouth is (so to speak). I have also done some volunteer tree planting, but it is too sporadic in my area for me to make it a regular thing. Planting trees will help a lot. Not logging the world's remaining old growth trees is also a pretty good idea.
 

Peripart

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There was a campaign back in 1973 called 'Plant a Tree in '73' - I reckon there should be a similar campaign next year called 'Plant a Tree in 2020'.
It kinda rhymes. Kinda.
I remember that from school. I seem to recall also "plant some more in '74", but that may not have been official! I was only 6...
 
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