Guantanamo Bay

[blessmycottonsocks]

Problem is that initiatives like this detract from personal responsibility.
Instead of condemning people for choosing to perpetrate acts of evil, asking "oh dear! Who radicalised the poor lamb?" seems to miss the point totally and rings faint echoes of the Nazi defendants' "only following orders" excuse at the Nuremberg trials.

 

[GNC]

I would say a prison sentence of about 15 years is very much forcing the convicted plotters to face up to their actions.

 

[maximus otter]

...many would-be radicals grow out of their delusions given enough exposure to alternative viewpoints.

He was born in Stoke-on-Trent and lived in England for all or most of his 28 years. l think he’d had plenty of exposure to alternative viewpoints.

maximus otter

 

[INT21]

I would say a prison sentence of about 15 years is very much forcing the convicted plotters to face up to their actions.

These guys have religion.

Says everything.

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

These guys have religion.

Says everything.

I remember, years ago on the now defunct BBC message boards, discussing something to do with morals/behaviour with a Muslim woman.
She invariably started each sentence with "we believe that ..." or "we are told that ..." .
I did say to her "never mind what the Quran tells you to think. What do YOU think about this?"
She replied that she cannot possibly separate her life, thoughts and beliefs from islamic scripture.

 

[GNC]

We either resign ourselves to endless bouts of terrorism, or we live in hope we can prevent them, and ultimately eradicate them. It's an either/or situation. But the latter won't happen out of the blue.

 

[Mythopoeika]

I remember, years ago on the now defunct BBC message boards, discussing something to do with morals/behaviour with a Muslim woman.
She invariably started each sentence with "we believe that ..." or "we are told that ..." .
I did say to her "never mind what the Quran tells you to think. What do YOU think about this?"
She replied that she cannot possibly separate her life, thoughts and beliefs from islamic scripture.

The brainwashing has taken such a hold that it's impossible to de-program somebody like that. Impossible.

 

[INT21]

Even if someone did see the light and change their view, they would not dare to even mention this to anyone else.

The fear that this person may want to gain a few brownie points by passing this information to the clerics, along with all the bad things this would invoke, would make them simply keep their mouths shut.
It may make them unlikely to commit any violent act though, and we should be grateful for this.

 

[maximus otter]

We either resign ourselves to endless bouts of terrorism, or we live in hope we can prevent them, and ultimately eradicate them.

“Hope” is not a strategy.

maximus otter

 

[GNC]

“Hope” is not a strategy.

But it can bring about a strategy, an alternative to defeatism.

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

The brainwashing has taken such a hold that it's impossible to de-program somebody like that. Impossible.

Exactly. A top psychologist here casts doubt on the effectiveness of "deradicalisation" programmes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50967100

 

[GNC]

Doesn't mean we shouldn't try. There are always life sentences if need be.

 

[ramonmercado]

Doesn't mean we shouldn't try. There are always life sentences if need be.

Maajid Nawaz and his organisation Quilliam is the best example of it working.

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

They didn't work for him, but many would-be radicals grow out of their delusions given enough exposure to alternative viewpoints. Who's to say if they weren't seeking to save money and kept him inside longer he would have improved? Anyway, the facts are still coming in, so best not to speculate too hard.

Islamic prisoners at HMP Whitemoor savagely attacked 5 prison guards today using improvised weapons.
They were wearing what appeared to be convincing suicide vests.
How the hell could they manufacture such outfits in gaol?
Does anyone truly believe that Islamic terrorists like this can ever be deradicalised?

https://news.sky.com/story/hmp-whit...ate-after-five-prison-staff-attacked-11904745

 

[Mythopoeika]

They were wearing what appeared to be convincing suicide vests.
How the hell could they manufacture such outfits in gaol?

I suspect they are allowed to take 'religious accoutrements' into jail unhindered.

 

[EnolaGaia]

I suspect they are allowed to take 'religious accoutrements' into jail unhindered.

Do you mean these 'religious accoutrements' could have served as the source materials for constructing the fake suicide vests?

 

[Mythopoeika]

Do you mean these 'religious accoutrements' could have served as the source materials for constructing the fake suicide vests?

It is a possibility.

 

[Frideswide]

In what way? prayer mat and prayer beads don't exactly scream stick-backed-plastic and loo roll cardboard versatility!

 

[Mythopoeika]

In what way? prayer mat and prayer beads don't exactly scream stick-backed-plastic and loo roll cardboard versatility!

Terrorist prisoner 1: We need some candles for our religious celebrations.
Terrorist prisoner 2: Oh yes, and we need some red paint for religious decorations.
Unwitting prison governor: OK, let them have what they need for celebrating this religious festival we've never heard of, because we want to look 'cool' and 'woke'.

Later...

Terrorist prisoner 1: These candles really do look like dynamite, with that red paint slapped on!
Terrorist prisoner 2: Yeah! Wonder what else we can get past them...!

 

[Swifty]

Do you mean these 'religious accoutrements' could have served as the source materials for constructing the fake suicide vests?

I think that's what Mytho's saying yes .. crazy huh .. what are these terrorists like?

 

[ramonmercado]

It is a possibility.

Prisoners can make anything out of anything if they are motivated enough. Fake guns, carved out of wood, blackened with shoe polish. Candles could certainly be made to look like sticks of explosives.

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

One of the attackers - Brusthom Ziamani had been inspired by the murder of Lee Rigby and was plotting to behead a soldier. He was arrested by counter-terrorism officers in August 2014, carrying a rucksack containing a 12-inch knife, a large hammer and an Islamic flag.
He had told a security officer at Wandsworth Prison in London that he had been on his way to "behead a British soldier at an army barracks and hold the severed head in the air" when he was arrested. He was gaoled in 2015 for 22 years, but this was REDUCED on appeal.

Wonder what his defence lawyer is feeling like today (if, indeed, such people have feelings).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-51049853

 

[GNC]

Islamic prisoners at HMP Whitemoor savagely attacked 5 prison guards today using improvised weapons.
They were wearing what appeared to be convincing suicide vests.
How the hell could they manufacture such outfits in gaol?
Does anyone truly believe that Islamic terrorists like this can ever be deradicalised?

If even half are deradicalized, then that's progress. But these dangerous people are in prison for a reason. Let's see how they feel after decades of a wasted life inside.

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

Yet another failure for the deradicalisation programme:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/voice-mirror-streatham-attack-shows-21417607

 

[Yithian]

Could we steer this one back to the specific topic of Guantanamo Bay, please?

If there are genuine links between more recent incidents and the prisoners there, then please make them explicit and avoid link-dumping.