Harry Potter

Pietro_Mercurios

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jefflovestone said:
Well that saves me from buying it now.
Good point. Could Posters resist the temptation to give just a bit too much detail, about new books, films and etc., please?
 

PeniG

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On the one hand, I'm very sorry.

On the other hand, how can you discuss a work meaningfully without going into specific details?

On the foot, if finding out barebones facts like who dies is enough to keep you from reading the book - you probably didn't want to read it that much, anyway.

I personally always stay away from discussions of things I want to view/read until after I've viewed or read them. Therefore, it is easy for me to forget that other people don't do this.
 

Pietro_Mercurios

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Well, this is really only a general ' Harry Pooter' Thread, not even one specifically dedicated to Harry Pooter VI. So, go conny, out there.

Mostly, Posters give a 'Spoiler:' warning and may even color the revelatory text white, to disguise it a little and make it more difficult to read.

:)
 

jefflovestone

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PeniG said:
On the one hand, I'm very sorry.

On the other hand, how can you discuss a work meaningfully without going into specific details?

On the foot, if finding out barebones facts like who dies is enough to keep you from reading the book - you probably didn't want to read it that much, anyway.

I personally always stay away from discussions of things I want to view/read until after I've viewed or read them. Therefore, it is easy for me to forget that other people don't do this.

Firstly, the thread has a rather general title: "Harry Potter". It's not called "OMG! Latest plot spoilers!!1"

Secondly, it's not as if you're discussing some piece of literature deemed a 'classic' and is likely that everyone would have either read or at least be aware of the basic gist of the book. You're 'spoiling' a book that had a release date roughly 3 weeks ago. People might be interested in current literature without necessarily queuing outside W.H.Muggles for a fortnight with their wand hanging out of their trousers to make sure they read it in the first week.

Thirdly, weirdly enough, I actually do read lots print media discussion where people manage to discuss said literature without either giving too much away or, if spoiler code isn't operational, at least some kind of spoiler warning.
 

hedgewizard1

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It's not for me to tell you how to read any particular book, but here's a little exercise that I find useful. If something about a scene bugs or displeases you, sit back and ask youself - could this be the sensation the author wished me to feel? You can't know the author's intention unless she makes a public statement about it, but the point is to derive maximum benefit from the book.

This sort of exercise would work only with a writer who is not only a skilled craftsperson, but a known quantity to the reader. And even then, it ignores the fact that even good writers can make mistakes, and good editors can miss them. Some are obvious, some are subtle.

So, the scene that seems jarring to the reader could just be poor writing/editing and nothing more.
 

OneWingedBird

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A lot like wartime, I thought.

i thought that too... it may be accurate in that respect, but i didn't think going that far with it made for good harry potter...
 

Bistoinferno

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This may contain a small spoiler, its not very important but I dont want to offend anyone


I got the impression that the whole reason for Tonks and Lupin dying and leaving their new born child was a sort of parallel for how Harry was left when his parents were killed. Remember he was made godfather of the baby and the ending suggests that he had the sort of relationship with him that he never really had with Sirius as he was in Askaban/dead. It just seemed awkwardly done and I agree it ay just have been some sloppy writing.

Mod Edit Warning: Spoiler Color changed from 'white' to hex code, '#D0D1D5'. Which seems to work better. P_M :)
 

Twin_Star

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I've said it before and i'll say it again, Rowlings doesnt write, she types. The books are bland, the prose almost entirely pedestrian. She doesn't kill who she should, nor spare those that warrant it. Of course she became victim of her own - wildly unfathomable success, as i see it - and hence settled for the path of least (marketing men) resistance. She says nothing, i repeat absolutely nothing, that hasnt already been covered by Enid Blighton, and (far, far better imo owing to the author encouraging readers to go out and explore the real world settings) of Malcolm Saville, all the way back to Kipling's "Stalky and Co."

True, she has encouraged countless people who probably didn't read too much to go out and digest a few books, and for that she has to be proffered some respect, but the overarching plot is juvenile - indeed infantile- in terms of thematic resonance. Jung would have, no doubt, numerous things to say about the character of Harry himself, unloved orphan who discovers that not only is he very special, and rich, and everyone (in his magic world) knows him is kindergarten wish-fulfilment of the direst order. The fact that so many adults read the books says more about their personal psychological development than it does about Rowlings penmanship.

Read them all, and enjoy every word by all means, as long as you understand there are far, far superior products on the shelves of Waterstones - or wherever - that cover all of the topics JK crudely renders in an entirely more satisfying manner.
 

Pietro_Mercurios

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Whatever you may think of Rowling's prose style, I must admit, I'd far rather read Harry Potter than Lord of the Bloody Rings. Ultimately, the lessons that Rowling is trying to instil in her readers may be more valuable than those in Tolkein's slightly prissy, tight arsed, fantasy.

Enid Blyton better? Gosh! I say! How Jolly! :rofl:
 

Bistoinferno

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She says nothing, i repeat absolutely nothing, that hasn’t already been covered by Enid Blighton,

Why does a kid’s book have to say anything anyway? Why can’t it just be fun? I loved Blighton as a kid but it would be impossible to do the same kind of stories now. At the age I was reading about the Famous Five were having yet another adventure, I wasn’t allowed to leave my house as I was too young. Now its gone the other way, kids of similar ages are often in the papers due to the fact they have ASBOs etc.

It’s also written in the now and despite what the writers of Skins may think we are not all having bisexual orgies at the age of 14.

It amazes me that a lot of people expect kids today to read certain books. Kidnapped for is one for example, I expect it was great at the time it was written but when I read it at 21 it was boring and the dialect would have put me off if I had been 10 years younger. Yet I have still heard it said it is a book children should read.

I can’t understand why people hate Rowling. At the very worst she has written books that some people wont read and think are rubbish, at the best she’s written a decent story, not the best ever and certainly influenced by many others, that have got a lot of kids interested in reading.

[/quote]
 

Novena

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Well, I'm not too familiar with the Potter books, however if I had to choose between giving my (future, maybe...) kids Rowling or Roald Dahl I'd plump for Dahl every time. Children's books need to stir up the imagination, and I think the combination of Dahl's slightly off-centre themes and Quentin Blake's illustrations does that perfectly. They certainly inspired me as a kid.

I see Rowling primarily as a not-very-talented latecomer who happened to be in the right place at the right time. Let's face it - in this media-dominated time any old tosh can become popular if it's marketed in the right way... :roll:
 

Pietro_Mercurios

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Zoffre said:
Well, I'm not too familiar with the Potter books, however if I had to choose between giving my (future, maybe...) kids Rowling or Roald Dahl I'd plump for Dahl every time. Children's books need to stir up the imagination, and I think the combination of Dahl's slightly off-centre themes and Quentin Blake's illustrations does that perfectly. They certainly inspired me as a kid.

I see Rowling primarily as a not-very-talented latecomer who happened to be in the right place at the right time. Let's face it - in this media-dominated time any old tosh can become popular if it's marketed in the right way... :roll:
Firstly, Dahl's children's books are mostly written for 9 year old (and under) kids who like to pull wings of small insects. Secondly, his adult books are written for adults who like to pull wings off small insects. Neither of which are Rowling's target audience.

Yes, quite a media hype, that boosts a single mother into the richest woman in Britain category, in 10 years. If only all publishers were as adroit with the marketing. :roll:
 

Novena

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Pietro_Mercurios said:
Firstly, Dahl's children's books are mostly written for 9 year old (and under) kids who like to pull wings of small insects. Secondly, his adult books are written for adults who like to pull wings off small insects. Neither of which are Rowling's target audience.
I don't really see where you're going with this. Dahl wrote for a rang of ages and some of his books are more sophisticated than others. I fail to see him as "targetting" only one type of kid/adult.

Pietro_Mercurios said:
Yes, quite a media hype, that boosts a single mother into the richest woman in Britain category, in 10 years. If only all publishers were as adroit with the marketing. :roll:
Again, I fail to see what her being a single mother has to do with anything. As I said - right place at the right time.
 

Fizz32

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_TMS_ said:
True, she has encouraged countless people who probably didn't read too much to go out and digest a few books, and for that she has to be proffered some respect, but the overarching plot is juvenile - indeed infantile- in terms of thematic resonance. Jung would have, no doubt, numerous things to say about the character of Harry himself, unloved orphan who discovers that not only is he very special, and rich, and everyone (in his magic world) knows him is kindergarten wish-fulfilment of the direst order. The fact that so many adults read the books says more about their personal psychological development than it does about Rowlings penmanship.

Read them all, and enjoy every word by all means, as long as you understand there are far, far superior products on the shelves of Waterstones - or wherever - that cover all of the topics JK crudely renders in an entirely more satisfying manner.

Blimey, this is a bit deep for a children's book, isn't it? Yes, so the "overarching plot is juvenile ... in terms of thematic resonance". It's a book for children, a John le Carre type complicated plotline would be pointless.

I'm fascinated by your theory about the personal psychological development of the adult readers of Harry Potter. Do you mean that if someone enjoys reading about a character with certain circumstances or personality traits, it reflects their own personality or psyche? "Silence of the Lambs" was quite a popular book, the readership of which was, I would guess, not made up mainly of serial killers.

And your last paragraph does come across as somewhat patronising. I read a lot of books, knowing that there are mightier and more worthy works of literature available to me. I don't read those books while wearing the smug grin of an intellectually superior mind, I read them to enjoy them.
 

Pietro_Mercurios

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Zoffre said:
Pietro_Mercurios said:
Firstly, Dahl's children's books are mostly written for 9 year old (and under) kids who like to pull wings of small insects. Secondly, his adult books are written for adults who like to pull wings off small insects. Neither of which are Rowling's target audience.
I don't really see where you're going with this. Dahl wrote for a rang of ages and some of his books are more sophisticated than others. I fail to see him as "targetting" only one type of kid/adult.
Just proving that I've actually read and am familiar with the work of both authors. :)
Zoffre said:
Pietro_Mercurios said:
Yes, quite a media hype, that boosts a single mother into the richest woman in Britain category, in 10 years. If only all publishers were as adroit with the marketing. :roll:
Again, I fail to see what her being a single mother has to do with anything. As I said - right place at the right time.
Since you doubt, apparently unread, Rowling's abilities as an author, I was searching around, tabloid style, for other factoids, that might be significant to her success. Had she been a plumber, or sky diver, I might have popped that in to the sentence, instead. ;)
 

jefflovestone

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I'm intrigued by the idea of Rowlings being in the 'right place at the right time'.

If the first Potter book came out in 1997 and was a success within its first year, I'm curious as to what other cultural factors were out there at the time that gave Rowlings' work a springboard. I know there's older precedents - boarding school genre and magical kids are hardly new, but I'm interested as to what was around then that might have given Rowlings a cultural 'leg up'

The TV series Buffy the Vampire Slayer started in America that year too (although the less popular/influential film came out a good few years before that) but took a while longer to really take a footing in the UK.

Neil Gaiman's Tim Hunter (child destined to be world's greatest wizard complete with an owl and magical mentors!) had appeared earlier in that decade.

Any suggestions?
 

Bistoinferno

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Well, I'm not too familiar with the Potter books, however if I had to choose between giving my (future, maybe...) kids Rowling or Roald Dahl I'd plump for Dahl every time.

The great thing is you dont have to. Your future kids can read and possibly enjoy (or not) both.
 

Pietro_Mercurios

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Bistoinferno said:
Well, I'm not too familiar with the Potter books, however if I had to choose between giving my (future, maybe...) kids Rowling or Roald Dahl I'd plump for Dahl every time.

The great thing is you dont have to. Your future kids can read and possibly enjoy (or not) both.
Which is also true. :)
 

stu neville

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Rowling's very readable, and moreish. She understands plot momentum, and the narrative segues neatly between vignettes - the less people have to go "Hang on a minute.." and re-read the preceding twenty pages, the better the overall reading experience IMHO ;). She has the "Sade" effect - not great art, and she doesn't pretend otherwise, but it's amiable and pleasant and as a result sells by the shed load. I like her stuff - she could have done with a more stringent editor at times, but that's a minor quibble.

Certainly, if I want intellectual rigour there are dozens of more testing authors out there, but she fills a particular niche. I think what hacks off a lot of people, especially other authors, is that she filled that niche almost by accident, like the person who drives into a packed car park and immediately finds a space right by the main entrance to the mall, while others lurch and toot their way around the perimeter for the nineteenth time. No-one knows what will strike a chord, really. Publishing, like music, is a bran tub. Someone has to get lucky, but to ascribe someone else's success to pure luck alone will always seem like sour grapes.
 

OneWingedBird

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i think her explorations of themes around choice are a credit to her and children's (or adults, come to thingk of it) writing - Harry and Voldemort both have similar backgrounds, and the only real difference between their lives is in what they've both chosen for themselves... it's played out in a similar way between a number of other characters too...
 

lupinwick

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She has the "Sade" effect - not great art, and she doesn't pretend otherwise, but it's amiable and pleasant and as a result sells by the shed load. I like her stuff - she could have done with a more stringent editor at times, but that's a minor quibble.

Books 5 and 6 could have done with a chainsaw taking to them. :) But again that is just my own thoughts. In the end while not the best written books in the world they're entertaining. The plotting etc. is almost from a Boys Own story and as such a bit predictable. Again this is just the adult perspective where I often expect something more from a book.

I still wonder what would have happened if the mania hadn't taken off as it did? If she'd published and completed the series without getting a film made (as many authors manage to do) would the pressure have been lessened and made some of the latter books better as a result?

Glad to see kids are reading and rereading them though.
 

James_H

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_TMS_ said:
Jung would have, no doubt, numerous things to say about the character of Harry himself, unloved orphan who discovers that not only is he very special, and rich, and everyone (in his magic world) knows him is kindergarten wish-fulfilment of the direst order. The fact that so many adults read the books says more about their personal psychological development than it does about Rowlings penmanship.
Interestingly, this is what I think is best about Harry Potter (which I love, and yes, I do read thick, complex and heavy books too, so nyah). It's a retelling of a basic myth, with heavy Jungian resonances - it's a way to look inside oneself, directly analogous with everything from the Lord of the Rings and Star Wars, to Beowulf, Icelandic Sagas, to anything really.

(sorry for veering off into pretentiousland).
 

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I still wonder what would have happened if the mania hadn't taken off as it did? If she'd published and completed the series without getting a film made (as many authors manage to do) would the pressure have been lessened and made some of the latter books better as a result?

I suspect she might have been forced to have an editor (on Book 5 especially) and yes, the later books would have been better as a result.
 

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A bit off thread, but "What Jo did next":

From The Sunday Times August 19, 2007

Rowling in new murder mystery
Ruairi O’Kane



IT’S a case for Rebus, Scotland’s dogged detective. JK Rowling, who launched her career with stories scribbled in an Edinburgh cafe, has been spotted back in her old haunts with a notebook in hand and crime on her mind.

The sighting, by the wife of Ian Rankin, creator of Detective Inspector John Rebus, has sparked talk among the city’s crime writers that she is planning to apply her populist talent to create the definitive Scottish crime novel.

Rowling, they say, is entering a genre dominated by some of Scotland’s greatest storytellers from Arthur Conan Doyle and Robert Louis Stevenson to modern bestselling writers including Rankin, Alexander McCall Smith, Iain Banks and Val McDermid.

Speaking to a reporter at the Edinburgh book festival, Rankin told how his wife Miranda had seen Rowling “scribbling away in a cafe recently”.

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“My wife spotted her writing her Edinburgh criminal detective novel,” he said. He declined to elaborate on how he knew about Rowling’s new direction, but conceded he had not discussed it personally with her. He added: “It is great that she has not abandoned writing or Edinburgh cafes.”

It was in Nicholson’s Cafe and the Elephant House, in Edinburgh, where as a hard-up single mother, she famously penned her first Harry Potter novel in the early 1990s.

Last month Rowling published Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, the seventh and final volume of the series which has helped propel her into the country’s super-rich with a fortune of £545m. She has been characteristically coy about what she planned to do after the series finished. She complained about being typecast as a children’s author and expressed a desire to move into adult fiction.

She offered fans a hint of a change in direction, saying on her website that she wanted to write something “completely different”, adding: “I can take my time. And the idea of just wandering off to a cafe with a notebook and writing and seeing where that takes me for a while is just bliss.”

Edinburgh is a favoured setting for crime writers because its cobbled, twisting wynds and dark, gothic buildings are an ideal setting for murder and intrigue. It has a history steeped in the macabre with infamous residents such as Burke and Hare, the 19th-century grave-robbers who inspired the pen of Stevenson.

Rankin, who lives close to Rowling in the Merchiston area of the city - which is also home to McCall Smith - said her experience of writing fantasy adventure would help with crime fiction. “Her process is classic crime writing - the set-up, the red herrings, the characters who change as they are revealed, the twists and turns, and finally the big lineup at the end.”

He said it was ironic that her decision to take up crime writing coincided with the final volume of his Rebus series which had dominated the past 20 years of his life.

“It is a chronological coincidence that JK Rowling had planned seven books and the way they were published meant this was the last year.

“I envisaged Rebus having a natural lifespan. He was 40 in 1987 so obviously he is 60 in 2007. And when I learnt that in the police in Scotland, 60 is the retirement age, I thought, ‘Well he has to go’. Those two things came together without either of us really thinking about it too much.”

PD James, 87, creator of the Adam Dalgleish mysteries, said she saw no reason why Rowling should not become a successful crime writer. “She certainly has all the skills,” James said. “She is immensely popular with adults and children. She has done a great service to literature by encouraging children to read on that scale. It is a huge achievement to get children queuing for books in the numbers they do.”

Christopher Little, Rowling’s literary agent, refused to comment. A spokeswoman for the author said: “We do not have a definite plan of what her next project is yet.”

Given that she never needs to write another book again, it'll be interesting to see what she'll produce, because apart from personal satisfaction it's largely unimportant as to whether it sells well, so she has a free hand.
 

Pietro_Mercurios

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It's official, Dumbledore was gay!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7053982.stm

JK Rowling outs Dumbledore as gay

BBC News Online: 20 October 2007

Harry Potter author JK Rowling has revealed that one of her characters, Hogwarts school headmaster Albus Dumbledore, is gay.

She made her revelation to a packed house in New York's Carnegie Hall on Friday, as part of her US book tour.

She took audience questions and was asked if Dumbledore found "true love".

"Dumbledore is gay," she said, adding he was smitten with rival Gellert Grindelwald, who he beat in a battle between good and bad wizards long ago.

"Falling in love can blind us to an extent," she said, and added Dumbledore was "horribly, terribly let down" and his love for Grindelwald was his "great tragedy".

"Oh, my god," Rowling, 42, concluded with a laugh, "the fan fiction".


...
Rowling just keeps getting better and better. :lol:
 

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Shes pandering to the fan fic people, righty...

or letting them pander to her...
 

OneWingedBird

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i bet ian mckellan is kicking himself he turned the part down

:shock:
 

OneWingedBird

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i was listening to mugglenet's mugglecast and they've introduced a new short section to the show called 'Listener Please Stop Listening' - they read out an email from someone saying that being gay was evil/wrong/immoral/against the bible and politely asked them to stop listening to the show :D

And as we don't seem to have an Equus thread, apparently Dan Radcliffe is going to be replising his role of Alan Strang in the Broadway version of the play, due to open September 2008... i'm thinking of going across to NY for my birthday/christmas next year, so maybe i'll catch it... :D
 

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So no Harry Potter movie for us this year... but maybe we'll get Hari Puttar instead!

Hari Puttar makers defend film
Daniel Radcliffe and Emma Watson in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
The Harry Potter film franchise is worth millions of pounds

The makers of Bollywood's Hari Puttar - A Comedy Of Terrors have defended the film, saying it has nothing in common with Harry Potter.

Warner Bros is taking legal action against producers Mirchi Movies, based in Mumbai, India, over the film title.

The studio believes the name is too similar to that of the young wizard.

But Munish Purii, of Mirchi Movies, said: "Our film bears no resemblance to the Hollywood film Harry Potter and it is a completely different story."

He added: "Our film has been in the making for quite some time and everyone knew about it."

Release date

A spokesman for Warner Bros, which owns the rights to the boy wizard movies, confirmed the lawsuit against Mirchi Movies last week.

Hari Puttar, directed by Rajesh Bajaj and Lucky Kohli, is due to hit Indian movie screens on 12 September.

Two weeks ago, it was reported that the release date for the next Potter film - Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince - had been pushed back by eight months to July 2009.

Warner Bros said the decision had been taken in order to guarantee the studio a major summer blockbuster in 2009.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7590536.stm
 
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