History Rewritten

Eponastill

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or is it that they've been re classified?
edit: the Brontosaurus is still alive on wikipedia .. Brontosaurus - Wikipedia
It seems they are actually cousins according to this (also on Wikipedia). Brontosauruses are a type of Apatosaurus. And Brontosauruses and Brachiosaurus (sauri?) are both 'Neosauropods'.
Cute illustrations.
So many sauropods. My five year old brain would have loved this. I kind of wish I'd never drifted away from dinosaurs. It's a mystery in itself really where all that young dinosaur-obsession goes?! I suppose dinosaur-related career options are quite thin on the ground. But it's not like you're worrying about that when you're seven
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Mikefule

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Whatever happened to the Brontosaurus, when i was a kid the two big plant eating dinos were the Diplodocus and the Brontosausus, now it seems to be called Brachiosaurus, i looked it up and its aparently down to genus of dinosaur vs genus of lizard, but you never hear the name Brontsaurus in relation to dinos these days only in relation to the extendable platforms the fire brigade use.

I remember "brachiosaurus" from books I was reading in the 1970s. It's a different beast. There were several species of dinosaur of the same general shape.

At first sight, the brachiosaurus looks like a typical sauropod dinosaur: large body, 4 legs, long tail, long neck, small head — very much the same sort of thing as a diplodocus or brontosaurus. Fred Flintstone might have used it as a crane.

However, the brachiosaurus was unusual in having front legs that were longer than its back legs. Hence it's name translates as "arm lizard". The other sauropods had long back legs, short front legs.

I double checked this today before writing this but I had remembered this correctly.

Brontosaurus ("thunder lizard") has at various times over the last few decades been classified as an "apatosaurus". It is a member of the family Diplodocidae which also includes diplodocus itself.

Bear in mind that there is only limited fossil evidence of any of these. We are lucky to have a few complete or nearly complete skeletons, but these are not always enough to give us a clear idea of populations and species relationships. In some cases, whole species are inferred from a few isolated bones. As more evidence comes to light, species are sometimes reclassified.

A favourite of mine as a kid was the bipedal dinosaur that was proposed as having a single horn on its nose. Later investigation concluded that this was the only remaining thumb from the skeleton that was being reconstructed. As there was only one part of that shape, they assumed it went along the central axis, and a horn on the nose seemed the obvious answer.

A quick search today reminds me it was the Iguanodon
 

Nosmo King

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A favourite of mine as a kid was the bipedal dinosaur that was proposed as having a single horn on its nose. Later investigation concluded that this was the only remaining thumb from the skeleton that was being reconstructed. As there was only one part of that shape, they assumed it went along the central axis, and a horn on the nose seemed the obvious answer.

A quick search today reminds me it was the Iguanodon
That was the inspiration for the Iguanadon sculptures in Hyde Park
seen here:

8CCBA9A5-B333-4848-A84142F096BB9142_source.jpg


Edit: as @Bad Bungle pointed out, they are at Crystal Palsce not Hyde Park :)
 
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Bad Bungle

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Escaped from Crystal Palace.
Wasn't there some debate on the threads about whether a Dinner in the Iguanodon mould actully took place in1853 ?
 

Nosmo King

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Escaped from Crystal Palace.
Wasn't there some debate on the threads about whether a Dinner in the Iguanodon mould actully took place in1853 ?
Sorry i was working from my bad memory rather than checking, Crystal Palace it is :)

I believe there was a story that a meal was eaten inside a mammoth of dinosaur which ultimately turned out to be in one ot the statues, i cant remember which thread but i remember commenting on it, might have been the 'eating mammoth' thread.
 

Bad Bungle

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Yes - that is weird.
 

EnolaGaia

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It wasn't a coincidence ... I was locating and delving into earlier discussions touching on the dinner inside the iguanodon and updating them (as appropriate) while backtracking to this thread. You noted what I'd been doing before I'd had the chance to update this one (which would have been the last one modified or posted to).
 

blessmycottonsocks

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I knew about it as well but its good to get actual figures. I think the extent of it wasn't realised. It would be interesting to see whose fortunes were built on slave labour.

On the subject of slavery, we are generally only told about the trans-Atlantic slave trade.
This, involved an estimated 12 million slaves being transported from Africa initially to Brazil, then throughout the Americas and, to a lesser extent, to Europe. At least 1.2 million slaves died during transportation.

I've been reading the History of World Trade in Maps over the last few weeks.
It's a brilliant book, with magnificent full-colour illustrations and full of illuminating facts about human history - warts and all.
I recently reached the (depressingly thick) section on the slave trade.
I did not realise that the trans-Saharan slave trade was vastly bigger and went on far longer than Atlantic slavery.
Arab traders raided sub-Saharan Africa from around the 8th century up to the late 17th century and a minimum of 28 million recorded slaves were taken.
This figure is thought to be a significant under-estimate. Slaves were treated abominably, being of less value than precious metals, silks, ceramics and even paper and up to 80% of slaves died on gruelling marches through the Sahara, with survivors ending up in North Africa or the Middle East.

map1.JPG
map2.JPG

Another sobering thought is that there are more slaves today than at any time in human history.
And yet, will people remember the 20th and 21st centuries as the epoch of slavery?
 

Endlessly Amazed

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Regarding Arabia and 20th century slaves

First, a disclaimer: I have no way of verifying that I have correctly interpreted what I saw in SW Saudi Arabia in the 1980’s. This was from the town close to where I lived. I saw, in one particular small town in the mountains, a group of medium to dark skinned African men, who looked to be 40-60 years old. They all worked and lived in a brickmaking facility owned by the local Shaik’s family (as much of the old-style industry was). They all appeared to have one type of dark, thick, raised skin on their foreheads, all being the same pattern similar to a triangle. It looked like a brand to me. It did not look like ritual scarification; and because their skin tones ranged so much, I didn’t think they were from the same tribe. They all looked very poor, and they congregated together, and not with the locals. If I recall correctly, at least one of them had elephantiasis in his legs and feet. It was the first time I had ever seen this. I saw them several times while I was there.

It was explained to me that they had been brought over from East Africa when they were teenagers to work making bricks, and that they could not leave as they were stateless: neither Saudi citizens nor any longer the citizens of their country of birth. They could walk around the small town, but not range any farther. They could not leave the country - or even the small town - without papers, and they had none. The locals thought that African workers had stopped being brought over in the 1970s. Note: Saudi Arabia officially ended slavery in 1962. My source of information on the back story of these men was trustworthy, and was accurate, as far as I know, in everything else he told me.

The unskilled work, at the time I was there, was almost exclusively done by Moslems from 3rd world countries in Asia and the Pacific islands. The same controlling mechanisms of not having access to passports or consulates, no travel, dependencies on the employer family, very little money, and so on, were very much in evidence. I was horrified at the existence of those poor brickmakers, and compartmentalized this in my own mind, as there was nothing I could do and I still had some time before I could leave the country. It was one of the experiences that made me resolved to be more helpful to those in need.

I think that the individual and collective behavior which allows slavery is within the normal range of sustainable human behavior (as is war, torture, charity, etc.) and as such I think it will be around for a long time, way past our lifetimes. We are all collectively responsible for this (cheap clothes, palm oil, Chinese work camps making Western toys, and on and on and on). I have no useful suggestions except to give in to impulses of compassion, whenever one can.
 
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maximus otter

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...controlling mechanisms of not having access to passports or consulates, no travel, dependencies on the employer family, very little money, and so on...

“In 2014, the Home Office produced an estimate of the scale of modern slavery in the UK of between 10,000 and 13,000 potential victims...”

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...eryintheuk/march2020#measuring-modern-slavery

Estimated prevalence of modern slavery by country:

Position in table. Country. Per 100K. Slaves. Population

132United Kingdom2.1136,00065,397,000

https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/2018/methodology/prevalence/

maximus otter
 
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blessmycottonsocks

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“In 2014, the Home Office produced an estimate of the scale of modern slavery in the UK of between 10,000 and 13,000 potential victims...”

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...eryintheuk/march2020#measuring-modern-slavery

Estimated prevalence of modern slavery by country:

Position in table. Per 100K. Slaves. Population

132United Kingdom2.1136,00065,397,000

https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/2018/methodology/prevalence/

maximus otter

Doesn't surprise me.
I do dislike the term "modern slavery" though, as it seems to infer that such a practice in recent times is somehow more enlightened and civilised than earlier slavery.
Slave labourers, indentured for life, or young girls subjected to appalling abuse in forced marriages to men many times their age, are every bit as much slaves as a Sub-Saharan African captured by Arab slavers a thousand years ago.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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feinman

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Swifty

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EnolaGaia

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The Alamo mythos (long debunk-able but remarkably unacknowledged for its faults ... ) is once again being targeted for correction.
We've Been Telling the Alamo Story Wrong for Nearly 200 Years. Now It's Time to Correct the Record

Imagine if the U.S. were to open interior Alaska for colonization and, for whatever reason, thousands of Canadian settlers poured in, establishing their own towns, hockey rinks and Tim Hortons stores. When the U.S. insists they follow American laws and pay American taxes, they refuse. When the government tries to collect taxes, they shoot and kill American soldiers. When law enforcement goes after the killers, the colonists, backed by Canadian financing and mercenaries, take up arms in open revolt.

As an American, how would you feel? Now you can imagine how Mexican President Jose Lopez de Santa Anna would have felt in 1835, because that’s pretty much the story of the revolution that paved the way for Texas to become its own nation and then an American state. ...

Even ... despite decades of academic research that casts the Texas Revolt and the Alamo’s siege in a new light, little of this has permeated the conversation in Texas.

Start with the Alamo. So much of what we “know” about the battle is provably wrong. William Travis never drew any line in the sand; this was a tale concocted by an amateur historian in the late 1800s. There is no evidence Davy Crockett went down fighting, as John Wayne famously did in his 1960 movie The Alamo, a font of misinformation; there is ample testimony from Mexican soldiers that Crockett surrendered and was executed. The battle, in fact, should never have been fought. Travis ignored multiple warnings of Santa Anna’s approach and was simply trapped in the Alamo when the Mexican army arrived. He wrote some dramatic letters during the ensuing siege, it’s true, but how anyone could attest to the defenders’ “bravery” is beyond us. The men at the Alamo fought and died because they had no choice. Even the notion they “fought to the last man” turns out to be untrue. Mexican accounts make clear that, as the battle was being lost, as many as half the “Texian” defenders fled the mission and were run down and killed by Mexican lancers. ...
FULL STORY: https://time.com/6072141/alamo-history-myths/
 

charliebrown

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National Geographic announced to the world that the ocean around Antarctica is now the Southern Ocean which makes five oceans in the world.

All maps will be changed which changes history.
 
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