Horse-Men (Horse Body; Human Face)

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Anonymous

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#31
Re: Therianthrope

The usual meaning of the adjective "therianthropic" is of a god
that is represented as combining animal and human forms.
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I love this post. It reminds me of australian aboriginals who believe that in the dreamtime there was no different between humans and animals.
 
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Anonymous

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#32
Re: Re: Therianthrope

zoe said:
I love this post. It reminds me of australian aboriginals who believe that in the dreamtime there was no different between humans and animals.

Sadly, many humans are not nearly so true and noble.
 
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Anonymous

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#34
The next step is to try to get a Llama in the background of an OBL poster! Or the other way round...?
 

evilsprout

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#35
Sorry to resurrect an ages-old thread...

This thread I remembered was awash with tales of human-headed horses in Ireland and elsewhere, and speculation it could all be panicky identifications of OOP llamas.

Lo and behold in this month's FT (FT159, p9):

IRISH ROAD HAZARD: Motorists were warned to look out for an exotic stray animal in COunty Offaly in the Irish midlands. It was spotted on the N80 between Tullamore and Clara. A motorist reported the animal to the AA, but was uncertain whether it was a camel or a llama.
 
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#36
I suspect this fits in here - its from the latest Fate:

Seeing Centaurs
by Jerome Clark

From time to time, if you're paying attention to such things or just happen to be in the right place at the right time, you may hear a story that is weird even by weirdness standards. Some years ago, on a pleasant summer evening over a campfire at a state park in South Dakota, a ranger told me that a couple camping there had once made a very strange complaint. They reported, to all appearances seriously, that a strange animal had come tearing into their recreational vehicle and done extensive damage before fleeing. It looked, they said, like something half human and half horse.


The ranger didn't tell me if they used the word 'centaur,' but then he hadn't talked with them personally. This was just a story that had circulated for some time among park employees. No names and specific dates were attached to it. It was really no more than a local legend. There was no way to know if it was or was not based on an actual claim or incident of some sort. Nonetheless, it was undeniably interesting, and it was good for a chilling sensation down the spine.

.........
Full article here:

http://www.fatemag.com/200408August.html#art1
 
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#37
In a book about ghosts I read some years ago I remember a story about a man who woke up to find a "ghost" with the body of a human and head of pig staring at him. He jammed his eyes shut and hid under the covers, the "ghost" wasn't there when he next reappeared. The book offered an explanation that there are some ghostly animals who are seeking to become humans but just never quite got there, or perhaps it is the other way around, ghostly humans seeking a animal appearence.
 
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Anonymous

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#38
That report about an animal on the road near Clara in Offaly was a camel, it was in the local papers. It had wandered from some travelling show but was quickly re-captured.

Was talking to my brother lately about llamas as there were a couple ads for them in 'Buy and Sell' (the Irish version of 'Exchange & Mart'). He said large scale sheep farmers buy them as protection. Put a llama in the field with your ewes and lambs and it will savagely chase out any prowling foxes or dogs. He thought it had to be a male llama, which can also be very aggressive towards humans. I can see strange sightings becoming more common if these are roaming about, I am waiting for the first 'Beware of the Llama' sign.
 

FelixAntonius

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#39
Scarlett said:
Put a llama in the field with your ewes and lambs and it will savagely chase out any prowling foxes or dogs. He thought it had to be a male llama, which can also be very aggressive towards humans. I can see strange sightings becoming more common if these are roaming about, I am waiting for the first 'Beware of the Llama' sign.
You are right, it has to be a male lama, they also have to be castrated, otherwise they try & mate with the ewes, who are much smaller than the lama.....

This is know as:- "The love that dare not bleat it's name!!!!";)
 

fluffle9

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#40
my mum went to a school reunion recently and found that one of her old school friends is farming alpacas for wool.

(a llama farmer, hahahahahahahahaha. :rofl: (like the band, the llama farmers (are they still going?)))
 
A

Anonymous

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#41
I watched a greek mythology programme about this recently (olympics ysee),

And just like the plains indians first thought westerners on horses were one being, other people from other countries believed this too...
 

Sertile

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#42
Chalicotherium

I think some of the central americans thought that about the spaniards, too. ANYWAY, I'm about to let you people in on my own personal theory. Ya'll ready?

http://www.paper-dragon.com/kelpie/kelpie.jpg

That's a Kelpie, and these...

http://www.avph.hpg.ig.com.br/jpg/chalicotherium1.jpg
http://perso.club-internet.fr/jflhomme/touraine/img/s_chalicothere2.gif

are Chalicotherium, a form of late Oligocene megafauna. The chalicotherium were supposed to have gone extinct around 2 million years ago, I believe, but if there is the slightest chance of ancient man ever catching a glimpse of one I can certainly see how it could've been a powerful experience. Chalicotherium were hulking things, with heads like horses and gorilla-like bodies. In fact, they were knuckle-walkers, and wouldn't gotten around like a large ape.

They would almost certainly have been capable of rearing up, as well, in a similar fashion to that of the Kelpie, and had the same sort of short back legs/long front legs-type combination as seen in the sketch. Chalicotherium's already been used as an explanation for the Nandi Bear, so I may just be muddying the waters, but it seems pretty logical to me. Tell me what you think.
 

Onix_Martinez

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#43
Re: Chalicotherium

Sertile said:
I think some of the central americans thought that about the spaniards, too. ANYWAY, I'm about to let you people in on my own personal theory. Ya'll ready?

http://www.paper-dragon.com/kelpie/kelpie.jpg

That's a Kelpie, and these...

http://www.avph.hpg.ig.com.br/jpg/chalicotherium1.jpg
http://perso.club-internet.fr/jflhomme/touraine/img/s_chalicothere2.gif

are Chalicotherium, a form of late Oligocene megafauna. The chalicotherium were supposed to have gone extinct around 2 million years ago, I believe, but if there is the slightest chance of ancient man ever catching a glimpse of one I can certainly see how it could've been a powerful experience. Chalicotherium were hulking things, with heads like horses and gorilla-like bodies. In fact, they were knuckle-walkers, and wouldn't gotten around like a large ape.

They would almost certainly have been capable of rearing up, as well, in a similar fashion to that of the Kelpie, and had the same sort of short back legs/long front legs-type combination as seen in the sketch. Chalicotherium's already been used as an explanation for the Nandi Bear, so I may just be muddying the waters, but it seems pretty logical to me. Tell me what you think.
Interesting theory. I have never seen this animal before, and it looks like something out of Sci-Fi. Maybe after some millenia of evolution, the Calicotherium became something like the Kelpie. Amazing find Sertile.
 
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Anonymous

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#44
Those Chalicotherium things are certainly interesting. The first picture looks a lot like an alien race in some of the Star Wars Extended Universe comics (an Imperial slave race, i think), while the second reminds me of some interpretations of the Australian "marsupial bigfoot" or "giant non-hopping kangaroo" type cryptids...

The Kelpie is sort of reminiscent of the Bunyip actually... although, i was under the impression that Kelpies were more classified under the "amphibious lake-serpent" type of cryptid, known to the Irish as the Piast/Piassa (sp?) as described in "The Dragon And The Disc"...

Chalicotheres were from East Africa? Any possible link to that Egyptian god (Seth?) depicted as a giant humanoid with the head of a strange, unidentified ass-like creature?

What are these things' nearest modern living relatives?
 

Sertile

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#45
I don't know all that much about the things to tell you the truth, but I do know they fit into the horse family somewhere. I believe their closest living relatives are horses, rhinos, and tapirs (tapirs probably being the closest). Their heads were a lot like a horse's, only shorter (kind of like a short-faced bear). According to what I've gleaned just off Google, the thing had claws instead of hooves (sort of like a sloth, I guess), ran roughly 9 feet in height, making it pretty large, and was found as far west as Kazakhstan.
 

Sertile

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#46
I just wanted to add that this month's "Fate" magazine has an article on centaurs, if anyone's interested. Also, I wanted to throw another legend into the mix: I've been reading an ethnography called "Mama Lola," about voodoo, and according to the author there is a voodoo (voodou) spirit of jealousy, known as a "Baka," that appears as a two-legged manlike horse. No details yet as to whether or not the thing has a horse's face or a man's face.
 
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#47
The Philippine sis full of demons and supernatural creatures including the Tikbalang:

The tikbalang is sort of like a "reverse-centaur" -- its lower body is human while its upper body is that of a horse.
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Harbor/1320/asutikba.html

TIKBALANG- mythical being with the upper body of a horse and the lower limbs (from the waist down) of a man. They often ambush unwary travelers and attack using their hooves to bludgeon their victims. They were said to emit the nauseating stench of burning hair hence signaling their victims of their impending doom
http://www.geocities.com/gcalla1/tikbalang.htm

6. TIKBALANG (Tagalog), TULUNG, TUWUNG, BINANGUNAN (Negrito)
* Physical Description - horselike man with long legs, clawed feet, long hair; tall and hideous; large mouth, teeth and testicles
* Domicile - balite; beside a hot spring; nipa grove; Sterculia foetida, or pitcher plant
* Activities - brings down sickness, death and other misfortunes; knees reach above its head when it sits; leads travelers astray
* Intellectual and Spiritual Endowments - kidnaps and murders women; lets people pass if they say "By your leave"; jails victim in little hut in bamboo grove; takes rosaries from Christians
* Animal Instincts - calls out: "Tik-tik"; leaps and prances to dislodge rider
* Magical Character - inflicts fever on human victim; disappears in dusty cloud and falling stones; able to assume any form and size it wishes; bewilders, blinds and crazes people; yields magic jewel when forced to do so by resolution and expert horsemanship
http://www.angelfire.com/on4/zambalesforum/fears_of_the_early_filipinos_wer.htm
http://members.tripod.com/magicrealms/folklore/survey.html
 

MrRING

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#48
An interesting essay with a cool observation
Palaephatus’s authoritative assertion in the fourth-century BC that if Centaurs ever did exist, then they would still be seen alive was turned on its head by Centaur sightings during the Roman empire. During the reign of Claudius (AD 41-54), for example, officials in Arabia declared that a small herd of Centaurs inhabited Saune, a remote mountain wilderness. One of these "living fossils" was captured and transported to Egypt as a gift for the emperor. The Egyptains fed the wild Centaur its traditional diet of raw meat, but it could not tolerate the change in altitude and perished. The prefect had the corpse embalmed and shipped to Rome, where Claudius exhibited the marvel in his palace. Pliny the Elder went with friends to see the spectacle: the Centaur was completely submerged in honey. (The antibacterial, anaerobic qualities of honey were well known in antiquity: honey was commonly used as a preservative for transporting cadavers long distances.)

Nearly a century later, through the reigns of nine emperors after Claudius, the embalmed Centaur of Saune could still be viewed, by special appointment, in the emperor Hadrian’s imperial storehouse. Phlegon of Tralles, the compiler of giant bone discoveries who served on Hadrian’s staff (AD 117-138), described the marvel firsthand. The Centaur was a bit smaller than one might expect from classical Greek art, but it had a fierce face and hairy arms and fingers. The human ribcage and torso merged naturally with equine body and limbs and its hooves were still quite firm. The man had originally been tawny but the entire body but the entire body had turned a very dark brown- -due, thought Phlegon, to the embalming process.
 

Bannik

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#49
That book excerpt was fun to read, Mr.RING!

The only modern centaur sighting report I've been able to find is this. (I have read of sightings of Pan/satyr types of creatures though.)
 

MrRING

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#50
A news group has more info on the emballmed centaur that gives some context:
In a second century A.D. book called "the book of marvels" by Phlegon of Tralles, the capture, death and embalming of a Centaur is recorded. The Centaur was sent to the Roman Emperor Hadrian and was kept in his storehouse and many were able to see it on display.

Centaurs are often thought of as only in Greek mythology, however the greeks and Romans also believed such creatures may have actually lived even if they were not what was represented in the "Illiad" and other books full of mythology. It was a popular pursuit for scolars to search for strange or mythical beasts.

http://www.liminalityland.com/phlegonpolemo.htm
A hippocentaur was found in Saune, a city in Arabia, on a very high mountain that teems with a deadly drug. The drug bears the same name as the city and among fatal substances it is extremely quick and effective.

The hippocentaur was captured alive by the king, who sent it to Egypt together with other gifts for the emperor. Its sustenance was meat. But it did not tolerate the change of air, and died, so that the prefect of Egypt embalmed it and sent it to Rome. (Recorded by Pliny during the reign of Claudius.)

At first it was exhibited in the palace. Its face was fiercer than a human face, its arms and fingers were hairy and its ribs were connected with its front legs and its stomach. It had the firm hooves of a horse and its mane was tawny, although as a result of the embalming its mane along with its skin was becoming dark. In size it did not match the usual representations, though it was not small either.

There were also said to have been other hippocentaurs in the city of Saune mentioned above.

So far as concerns the one sent to Rome, anyone who is skeptical can examine it for himself, since as I said above it has been embalmed and is kept in the emperor's storehouse.
"The Book Of Marvels" and another work by Phlegon are the best known examples of what is called "Paradoxography", a popular form of ancient greek and Roman entertainment writing. Authors would study Roman census records and report on strange births and people who lived to extremely old ages. Paradoxology also dealt with strange and paranormal phenomenon including vampires, strange creatures, and ghosts. Phlegon was well respected and was in the employ of the Emperor Hadrian, he also was very popular for being able to back up seemingly wild claims by providing names, places, and other information where skeptics could examine the information for themselves. His books at the time would have been something akin to "Ripley's Believe It Or Not", "Guiness World Records", and other types of strange, unusual, or fascinating facts.

The key part of Phlegons account in my opinion is this statement:
So far as concerns the one sent to Rome, anyone who is skeptical can examine it for himself, since as I said above it has been embalmed and is kept in the emperor's storehouse.
 

MrRING

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#52
JamesWhitehead said:
Cool review - but it was interesting to read the dismissal of the reviewer of the compilation:
The nature of the actual fragments demonstrate the sort of sensationalist headlines that sometimes make their way into popular daily papers. A dismembered head foretells the future (p. 31), a man changes into a woman and back again (p. 37-38), the true nature of a hermaphrodite is discovered on the point of marriage (p. 38), a tooth one- foot long is uncovered (p. 44), men give birth (p. 47) and centaurs inhabit the earth (p. 49). The PERI\ MAKROBI/WN tells us that the Sibyl of Erythrai lived for just less than 1000 years (pp. 55-57). The fragments of the )OLUMPIA/DEJ place us on more secure ground. They contain references to winners at the Olympic Games, Roman successes and defeats, the births of famous people and other important events (pp. 58-62).

Hansen's commentary is most useful as an introduction to these fragments. His lucid analysis contains much of interest for both classicists and general readers. He considers the probability that some of the stories were invented and the possible contexts of their invention. The apparent gullibility of Phlegon and the later author Prokles (pp. 66f., 199f.) in this regard is duly noted and provides a point of comparison (and contrast) with the ways in which modern scholars are taught to review their material.
It seems that rather than being a Fortean reviewer of the materials, the translator was much more of a hard line skeptic concerning these reports. I wonder what kinds of parallels to modern reports a more open minded (Fortean?) translator would find?
 

OldTimeRadio

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#53
One theory as to the origin of the Centaur legend is that these "manimals" resulted from very early Greeks (or proto-Greeks) catching their first glimpses of mounted Scythian cavalry.

Although my own guess is that the reaction would have been more along the lines of "I saw the strangest thing today - guys sitting on the backs of animals."
 
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#54
OldTimeRadio said:
One theory as to the origin of the Centaur legend is that these "manimals" resulted from very early Greeks (or proto-Greeks) catching their first glimpses of mounted Scythian cavalry.

Although my own guess is that the reaction would have been more along the lines of "I saw the strangest thing today - guys sitting on the backs of animals."
I would have though the initial reaction might have been more along the lines of "F**k me! RUUUUUUUUUN!!!"
 

Bannik

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#55
Bannik said:
The only modern centaur sighting report I've been able to find is this. (I have read of sightings of Pan/satyr types of creatures though.)
Here's another recently reported sighting of a Centaur also from paranormal.about.
 

OldTimeRadio

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#56
Bannik said:
(I have read of sightings of Pan/satyr types of creatures though.)
I learned just earlier this evening that there have been reports circulating for years of a Pan-like creature sighted in the Pope Lick section of Louisville, Kentucky, under the huge railroad trestle.
 

celticrose

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#57
Call me mad if you like, but when I first got my very first digital camera for Christmas, one of the first things I did was mess around with the settings and take pictures of my mum's fireplace. The fire was just going out, it being Christmas morning and hadn't been stoked for a few hours, and I got an image of a Pan like creature in the smoke. Now you can cry simulacra all you like, but for me, its always been proof that little people exist. The creature in the picture has rabbit like face: ears, eyes, and a tail, a man's torso and goat like legs complete with hooves. Can you see it?



 

GNC

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#58
No, I can't. Whereabouts is it supposed to be? Is it like one of those magic eye pictures where it suddenly leaps out at you?
 

celtlore

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#60
Water Horse

Hi people,

Good to see that the Cabyll Ushtey / Each Uisge has already been mentioned.

Since the creation of that damned film, lots of people seem to be equating the Water Horse legend with the whole Loch Ness Monster = plesiosaur meme, but in fact the creature as it was described in J. F. Campbell and other places is quite different.

The description I'm thinking of in particular describes it as a "great shaggy yearling" with a partly human face covered in red hide, which could speak like a human. If memory serves it could also walk upright. It was a shape-changer and could appear as a normal horse, human man, or a large black bird.

As people have already said, this type of creature could drag the unwary into pools by pretending to be a real horse so they'd get on its back, etc. I think this part of the idea probably stems from the creature being used as a cautionary tale to stop young children playing near horses, or near deep water.

Or, it's a folkloric memory of an escaped llama. 8) Whatevs.

Anyways, just to plug my own site, there's some detailed stuff about the Scottish Water Horse and the Smith of Raasay up over there...

http://celtlore.wordpress.com

Cheers,

SJM.
 
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