How 'Alien' Might Aliens Be? (Biologically; Mentally)?

[blessmycottonsocks]

There are factors or features that one can point to as possible bases for structural similarities.

For example ... Bilateral / multi-lateral symmetry (as an outcome) arguably reduces the genomic complexities required to prescribe how to develop a large multicellular organism.

Legs or similar appendages remain the simplest effective means for locomotion across a solid or semi-solid surface. The fewer legs an organism requires might be reasonably invoked as an efficiency factor, with two legs being the minimum number required to obtain a desired trade-off between functionality and maintenance burden.

Agreed.
And given the environmental constraints of planet Earth, Homo sapiens is the most advanced species to have evolved.
Thus, given a broadly simlar M-class planet and enough time, isn't it feasible that something not dissimilar to ourselves would be likely to evolve again?

 

[Andy X]

Maybe the "Aliens" are from the future.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_(novel)

As you're probably aware that's one of the more imaginative theories about the Greys / Grays (take your pick) i.e. that they might be what H.Sapiens evolves into and therefore they find it rewarding to travel back through time - either from our planet's future or wherever they may have colonised - in order to hang around Earth (mostly in the 1990s) and poke Earthlings about as part of some peculiar hobby involving genetics and infantile humour. If they exist that is, which I rather doubt.

I didn't notice anyone mentioning Arrival. It's one of the few recent sci-fi movies I haven't got bored with halfway through. Those are some pretty alien aliens....

 

[ramonmercado]

As you're probably aware that's one of the more imaginative theories about the Greys / Grays (take your pick) i.e. that they might be what H.Sapiens evolves into and therefore they find it rewarding to travel back through time - either from our planet's future or wherever they may have colonised - in order to hang around Earth (mostly in the 1990s) and poke Earthlings about as part of some peculiar hobby involving genetics and infantile humour. If they exist that is, which I rather doubt.

I didn't notice anyone mentioning Arrival. It's one of the few recent sci-fi movies I haven't got bored with halfway through. Those are some pretty alien aliens....

I actually liked Arrival , but the aliens Kang and Kodos from The Simpsons (minus the eyes).

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

I'll ignore 'invertebrates' as a classification, because it is a polyphyleticgroup, like 'worms' or 'bacteria'. The others are more closely defined, and we can make some definitive statements about them. Each of these groups you have mentioned is a tightly-defined taxon, and doesn't exist anywhere else in the universe. (note that amphibians evolved from fish, and reptiles evolved from amphibians, not the other way round).
There are no amphibians anywhere else in the universe, unless they have been somehow transported from Earth by an unknown process. There may be creatures which have some of the characteristics of amphibians, but we would be able to find characteristics that are different from Earth amphibians, and these differences would often be quite striking.
There are no reptiles anywhere else in the universe, unless they have been somehow transported from Earth by an unknown process. There may be creatures which have some of the characteristics of reptiles, but we would be able to find characteristics that are different from Earth reptiles, and these differences would often be quite striking.
There are no mammals anywhere else in the universe, unless they have been somehow transported from Earth by an unknown process. There may be creatures which have some of the characteristics of mammals, but we would be able to find characteristics that are different from Earth mammals, and these differences would often be quite striking.
There are no primates anywhere else in the universe, unless they have been somehow transported from Earth by an unknown process. There may be creatures which have some of the characteristics of primates, but we would be able to find characteristics that are different from Earth primates, and these differences would often be quite striking.

Alien taxonomy is likely to be a very complicated and interesting subject, and we might find taxons close enough to Earth taxa to call them 'reptiloids', 'mammaloids', 'primatoids' and so on; but the more specific analogs are likely to be difficult to find, and we will become increasingly aware of the differences the close a species gets to resembling a human. This 'uncanny valley' effect will probably increase the monstrous aspect of an alien that looks even vaguely similar to a humanoid; we might find it easier to accept aliens that look like trees or sea anemones than humans with mandibles and compound eyes.
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Pardon my gross oversimplification, but I merely wanted to paint, in broad brushstrokes, a brief outline of the evolution of life on Earth from single celled organisms to us.
We are the ultimate product (to date anyway) of our environment.

So, given a broadly similar environment somewhere out there, why not expect something recognisably humanOID to appear?

 

[Andy X]

I suppose it's likely that creatures that survive long enough to invent things might just share some features we would be familiar with. For example, bilateral symmetry seems to have won the race as far as natural selection on Earth goes, apart from a few fish with wonky eyes and crustaceans with one 'normal' and one massive claw. All those fantastical weirdly unsymmetrical sea creatures from the fossil record evidently failed to make the grade so it would seem that this very Earthly body plan in its various forms is a winning formula - as far as our biosphere goes at least.

Perhaps an intelligent water-breathing squid-like creature would have an advantage in space travel as they'd be able to tolerate high G's and radiation etc being protected by their liquid environment, but this would surely be even harder to clean and recycle than air in a spacecraft...he speculated wildly...

But I'm not sure they'd be up to metallurgy etc, being all fragile and squishy.

 

[Analogue Boy]

Perhaps an intelligent water-breathing squid-like creature would have an advantage in space travel as they'd be able to tolerate high G's and radiation etc being protected by their liquid environment, but this would surely be even harder to clean and recycle than air in a spacecraft...he speculated wildly...

But I'm not sure they'd be up to metallurgy etc, being all fragile and squishy.

I imagine that working with fire would have been a bit of a technological hurdle for them

 

[Andy X]

Yes, and that too!

 

[Andy X]

...and seeing them trying to use a bow and arrow would be hilarious.

 

[kamalktk]

A vertebrate with only two legs needs to dedicate a lot of brain power to balancing. The structure of an alien brain need not resemble ours in any way, but the act of balancing on two legs is likely to demand extra processing power, whatever the brain looks like.

Not that much brain power is needed for two legged locomotion, witness birds like the ostrich or mammals like the jerboa.

 

[kamalktk]

Sufficient dexterity of manipulating objects to make a spaceship would also be needed. No matter how smart the horse, It's going to be pretty hard to build anything with hooves.

 

[Andy X]

Unless they're space horses with telekinetic abilities.

 

[Analogue Boy]

Unless they're space horses with telekinetic abilities.

Bees are pretty industrious but as far as I know, have never had the ambition to make a spaceship. Just the honey. Which brings to mind intention, ambition and risk-taking as concepts necessary for taking first steps in invention, exploration and flight.

 

[Analogue Boy]

Sufficient dexterity of manipulating objects to make a spaceship would also be needed. No matter how smart the horse, It's going to be pretty hard to build anything with hooves.

A spaceship? They can’t even put on their own shoes.

 

[Andy X]

I suppose it's conceivable that human technology is an one-off anomaly in the volume of space we'll ever be able to visit or be visited from.

 

[Andy X]

Bees are pretty industrious but as far as I know, have never had the ambition to make a spaceship. Just the honey. Which brings to mind intention, ambition and risk-taking as concepts necessary for taking first steps in invention, exploration and flight.

I suppose it's conceivable that human technology is an one-off anomaly in whatever volume of space we'll ever be able to visit or be visited from.

...and perhaps the aforementioned ability of the bipedal animal to crane his neck to look upwards to the skies (pity poor porky the pig) is a factor in igniting the first flamelets of such ambitions?

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

Bees are pretty industrious but as far as I know, have never had the ambition to make a spaceship. Just the honey. Which brings to mind intention, ambition and risk-taking as concepts necessary for taking first steps in invention, exploration and flight.

That gave me a flashback to when I told my very young daughter that bees make honey.
She looked a bit stunned and asked "but how they put the labels on the little jars?"

 

[Timble2]

Sufficient dexterity of manipulating objects to make a spaceship would also be needed. No matter how smart the horse, It's going to be pretty hard to build anything with hooves.

However, a space elephant with a extremely dexterous trunk, might have a chance at building things. (Actually a horse-like thingy with extremely supple lips could build stuff. And btw has anyone considered a centaur-like body structure? Very stable and with limbs for manipulating things)

 

[David Plankton]

(Actually a horse-like thingy with extremely supple lips could build stuff.

Have you seen what Weaver Birds can do with just a beak? Better than me with two hands and ten fingers.

 

[eburacum]

I may as well post some of the aliens I've put together for Orion's Arm; we have a rule (no humanoid aliens in this galaxy). This is fairly arbitrary, and I don't rule out the possibility of humanoid aliens; I just think this will be a relatively rare body plan, just like the human and penguin body plan is uncommon on Earth. You've already met one of these. To me, the important features of a sentient creature are locomotory limbs, manipulatory limbs, sensory organs near the front or top, and a brain somewhere.

 

[Andy X]

I've sometimes pondered why there aren't (and have never) been any animals with wheels. Of course there are many reasons but it's interesting to think about.

Sadly this thought was not as original as I'd imagined as a search for "why don't animals have wheels?" soon confirmed.

 

[kamalktk]

I may as well post some of the aliens I've put together for Orion's Arm; we have a rule (no humanoid aliens in this galaxy). This is fairly arbitrary, and I don't rule out the possibility of humanoid aliens; I just think this will be a relatively rare body plan, just like the human and penguin body plan is uncommon on Earth. You've already met one of these. To me, the important features of a sentient creature are locomotory limbs, manipulatory limbs, sensory organs near the front or top, and a brain somewhere.
View attachment 14365View attachment 14367View attachment 14366View attachment 14363View attachment 14364

The pink one reminds me of a video game creature, Half Life maybe.

 

[Mythopoeika]

I've sometimes pondered why there aren't (and have never) been any animals with wheels. Of course there are many reasons but it's interesting to think about.

Sadly this thought was not as original as I'd imagined as a search for "why don't animals have wheels?" soon confirmed.

Not exactly wheels, but some really large squid have rotating hook-like appendages on their tentacles.
http://squid.tepapa.govt.nz/anatomy/article/the-arms-and-tentacles

 

[David Plankton]

I've sometimes pondered why there aren't (and have never) been any animals with wheels. Of course there are many reasons but it's interesting to think about.

Sadly this thought was not as original as I'd imagined as a search for "why don't animals have wheels?" soon confirmed.

There are creatures like that in the Philip Pullman His Dark Materials trilogy.

 

[Andy X]

Not exactly wheels, but some really large squid have rotating hook-like appendages on their tentacles.
http://squid.tepapa.govt.nz/anatomy/article/the-arms-and-tentacles

Wow, I'd no idea they could rotate them 360 degrees. I'm glad I'm not a sperm whale. Or a lady squid, probably

There are creatures like that in the Philip Pullman His Dark Materials trilogy.

Ah yes, a quick image search proved interesting as I recently saw an HR Giger sketch featuring bicycle-like creatures, and others with organic skis and ice skates - I'm positive I didn't imagine this - which is probably what made me think of it again.

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

However, a space elephant with a extremely dexterous trunk, might have a chance at building things. (Actually a horse-like thingy with extremely supple lips could build stuff. And btw has anyone considered a centaur-like body structure? Very stable and with limbs for manipulating things)

Larry Niven and Jerry Pournell's Earth invasion novel "Footfall" has space-faring aliens that resemble elephants.
Must be 20 years since I read it, but it was quite a memorable and inventive read.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footfall

 

[ramonmercado]

Larry Niven and Jerry Pournell's Earth invasion novel "Footfall" has space-faring aliens that resemble elephants.
Must be 20 years since I read it, but it was quite a memorable and inventive read.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footfall

I also remember it fondly.

 

[Lb8535]

I also remember it fondly.

Niven has written many stories about very alien aliens, just human enough to be able to be in a human story. He has also hypothesized a guy whose family business was creating modulating items that enabled for example dolphins (or do I remember correctly, a heap of dirt?) to have hands, making them able to compete with aliens with digits.

 

[Timble2]

Niven has written many stories about very alien aliens, just human enough to be able to be in a human story. He has also hypothesized a guy whose family business was creating modulating items that enabled for example dolphins (or do I remember correctly, a heap of dirt?) to have hands, making them able to compete with aliens with digits.

In David Brin's Uplift Saga novels (Startide Rising etc) the dolphins where fitted with cybernetic harnesses to give them "hands".

BTW there are some really alien aliens in Hal Clements "A Mission of Gravity", and "Iceworld", in the latter the 'ice world' is Earth, it's from the point of view of an alien agent from a world with an atmosphere of sulphur vapour (i.e. it's very, very hot).

 

[eburacum]

Unfortunately the world in Mission of Gravity is unlikely to be possible in the real universe, despite all the (commendable) effort that Clements put into it. A planet that big would be a brown dwarf.

 

[dr wu]

...there have been many 'believers' in aliens over the years who have made similar claims and several have mentioned more than just 4 types. I think one man some years back said there were something like 7 or 9 species..?

Interestingly Hellyer said 4 also...maybe these two guys are friends...?

Another 'opinion'...... https://www.disclose.tv/these-82-alien-species-are-in-contact-with-earth-317842