How 'Alien' Might Aliens Be? (Biologically; Mentally)?

[eburacum]

Completely bonkers, of course; if the greys are biological robots, there's little reason to think that they do not have souls. And even if they did not, there is no reason to expect that genetic experiments on humans would help provide them with such things.
Note as well that there is no evidence of genetic manipulation in any strain of human, so that's a non-starter.

 

[INT21]

There was a robot demonstrated on tv a while back that was generally of humanoid structure. Except it had it's arms coming from a point at waist level. This made for better lifting.

 

[EnolaGaia]

There was a robot demonstrated on tv a while back that was generally of humanoid structure. Except it had it's arms coming from a point at waist level. This made for better lifting.

From the perspective of biomechanics, the human body isn't exactly a well-designed product. With regard to lifting the spine is a particularly bad design.

Having lifting limbs (e.g., arms) attached at or very near the overall body's center of gravity would help a lot.

 

[dr wu]

Completely bonkers, of course; if the greys are biological robots, there's little reason to think that they do not have souls. And even if they did not, there is no reason to expect that genetic experiments on humans would help provide them with such things.
Note as well that there is no evidence of genetic manipulation in any strain of human, so that's a non-starter.

I assume you are referring to Kerner's book though you didn't make that clear. I agree the book is very controversial in it 's claims.
While I don't endorse such a wild esoteric idea, I do think it makes for interesting reading in a sci-fi kind of way.
BTW...why would you assume a 'biological robot' would have a soul? I would think if it was artificially created it would not have a soul which is Kerner's claim; that they are not born of any being but artificial beings created by a very advanced race out there somewhere.
Regarding souls.....I'm not sure we even have souls though it is a comforting thing to believe for many humans on earth.
As you pointed out ,I have no way of understanding either how these 'grey clones' would 'steal human souls', again assuming that souls do indeed exist. It is very esoteric as I said and more in line with occultism in many ways.

 

[eburacum]

Well, the question of souls and robots is an interesting one in itself.
The Dalai Lama was once asked if an artificial intelligence could become conscious, and the answer was positive. Indeed, he suggested that researchers into AI should make their creations as nice as possible, as they might one day be reincarnated as one.

 

[marhawkman]

I assume you are referring to Kerner's book though you didn't make that clear. I agree the book is very controversial in it 's claims.
While I don't endorse such a wild esoteric idea, I do think it makes for interesting reading in a sci-fi kind of way.
BTW...why would you assume a 'biological robot' would have a soul? I would think if it was artificially created it would not have a soul which is Kerner's claim; that they are not born of any being but artificial beings created by a very advanced race out there somewhere.
Regarding souls.....I'm not sure we even have souls though it is a comforting thing to believe for many humans on earth.
As you pointed out ,I have no way of understanding either how these 'grey clones' would 'steal human souls', again assuming that souls do indeed exist. It is very esoteric as I said and more in line with occultism in many ways.

The idea of Greys(or other ETs) as puppets may be inspired by how some accounts seem to suggest they don't really care about their own safety. For example the Stardust Ranch story and the Kentucky Goblins, where the aliens seemingly didn't CARE if Humans shot them. But they allegedly weren't invulnerable. They could be injured, but their injuries seemingly weren't a problem to them.

Thus the logic is that people aren't actually injuring the physical bodies of the actual space invaders.

I'm not sure where, so it might have been sci-fi, but I've seen cases where it was suggested that Men-in-Black might also be meat puppets made to look like Humans. But... also... the idea that they're not clones. IE the aliens mind-controlled some dudes to use as meat puppets. Which leads to the idea that people who get abducted might not be themselves when they come back. But this goes into the "stealing souls" idea. The aliens remove your soul/personality when they take your body to use it as a meat puppet.

As for whether it's true? I've never seen any compelling evidence. All I've heard are interesting stories.

 

[Skrymr]

I have also pondered on alien abductions, the whole immobilising of people thing, it reminds me of researchers sedating large land predators like bears and big cats. Almost like they are scared of us to an extent, considering how Greys only seem to be technologically superior, it kind of makes sense

 

[Mouldy13]

Perhaps the "humanoid" entities we have encountered are only "frontmen" for their truly alien masters? a bit like the aliens in childhood's end by Asimov who didn't want us to see them because they looked just like our conception of the devil?

maybe the really "alien" aliens don't want us to freak out at the sight of them?

 

[feinman]

Perhaps the "humanoid" entities we have encountered are only "frontmen" for their truly alien masters? a bit like the aliens in childhood's end by Asimov who didn't want us to see them because they looked just like our conception of the devil?

maybe the really "alien" aliens don't want us to freak out at the sight of them?

Most people can't be in the vicinity of UFOs for long without some kind of psychological trauma --thus things are kept below tipping-point contact. It's apparent we can barely deal with other humans with different skin colors so we wouldn't be able to bear mass alien contact for long in our current state of development. We are animals, and animals are deadly afraid of UFOs --you can see it in the articles over and over again over the decades, centuries. Whatever intelligence has produced UFOs --it is very different in a profound way; these aren't Star Trek aliens we are dealing with. Perhaps they don't even exist in bodies at this point --who knows where they are from, too. Take a look at the thread on the Monon UFO encounter --that's some bizarre stuff, and it really gives you an idea of what kind advanced technology could be behind these freaking things....

 

[Roland Deschain]

Perhaps the "humanoid" entities we have encountered are only "frontmen" for their truly alien masters? a bit like the aliens in childhood's end by Asimov who didn't want us to see them because they looked just like our conception of the devil?

maybe the really "alien" aliens don't want us to freak out at the sight of them?

We’re not ready for 8 foot tall augmented cockroaches, swarms or hives of tiny creatures or ancient uploaded disincarnated intelligences. A meat puppet that looks a bit like us would be a good move.
Could be that they are pathfinders for Von Neumann probes and are assessing whether or not to dismantle the planet for raw materials. Better hope we meet the criteria for intelligent life and get left alone.

 

[dr wu]

If the 'aliens' people claim to see and encounter are 'pathfinders' or 'frontmen' then they are certainly taking their time in evaluating Earth and humans for their 'masters' since the reports of sightings and encounters go back many decades and some would argue centuries and even millennia. It seems to me that a truly advanced race would not need that long to decide what to do. So what exactly is going on? Why the long observation period?
Could it be that something else is at the core of the mystery? Perhaps we aren't interpreting the ufo enigma correctly?

 

[EnolaGaia]

If the 'aliens' people claim to see and encounter are 'pathfinders' or 'frontmen' then they are certainly taking their time in evaluating Earth and humans for their 'masters' since the reports of sightings and encounters go back many decades and some would argue centuries and even millennia. It seems to me that a truly advanced race would not need that long to decide what to do. So what exactly is going on? Why the long observation period?

The most obvious reason (excuse?) for apparent delays would be the time required to communicate these scouts' findings with their "home base." We currently know of no practical means of communication (much less travel ... ) that can convey anything faster than the speed of light. (The case of quantum entanglement remains an unproven means for reliable communication over interstellar distances ... )

Even if a decision authority's conclusion would be made in an instant, it might simply be the case the data / findings are still "in transit." If any follow-on action were to involve material transport there could be an arbitrary delay for the response, too.

Another obvious issue concerns the presumption that any observation would necessarily lead to some follow-on action, or that any follow-on agenda is in the cards to begin with. Why do we assume intelligent species must be questing for contact with any other intelligent species they can locate?

Could it be that something else is at the core of the mystery? Perhaps we aren't interpreting the ufo enigma correctly?

IMHO this is entirely possible. It makes no less sense, and is no more speculative, than any other mythos that's developed around the UFO phenomenon.

 

[Naughty_Felid]

The idea of Greys(or other ETs) as puppets may be inspired by how some accounts seem to suggest they don't really care about their own safety. For example the Stardust Ranch story and the Kentucky Goblins, where the aliens seemingly didn't CARE if Humans shot them. But they allegedly weren't invulnerable. They could be injured, but their injuries seemingly weren't a problem to them.

Thus the logic is that people aren't actually injuring the physical bodies of the actual space invaders.

I'm not sure where, so it might have been sci-fi, but I've seen cases where it was suggested that Men-in-Black might also be meat puppets made to look like Humans. But... also... the idea that they're not clones. IE the aliens mind-controlled some dudes to use as meat puppets. Which leads to the idea that people who get abducted might not be themselves when they come back. But this goes into the "stealing souls" idea. The aliens remove your soul/personality when they take your body to use it as a meat puppet.

As for whether it's true? I've never seen any compelling evidence. All I've heard are interesting stories.

With Kelly-Hopkinsville the guns didn't seem to have any effect on the "owls" or "swamp gas" - that plagued the house.

 

[feinman]

I don't know what to make of humanoid reports. All of the explanations I could come up with are just too far out. Perhaps the devices are able to manipulate human memories and experiences and we are relatively simple machines for them. Biologically humanoids don't make sense to me --if they're some kind of androids made with our DNA to try and communicate with us in a form we can relate to (they often appear to be that) --then why the lab equipment, etc.; that would be an expensive production. Sometimes the occupants are described as humanoid-like shadows, too. I dunno. I try to keep the weird objects separate from the critters in my mind --perhaps it is my bias, as I have not seen UFO beings, though I absolutely felt observed, unlike anything ever before in my life.

 

[dr wu]

There are a few ways to look at it. Some exo-biologists believe that humanoid aliens would not be unusual since upright bipedal beings would be more likely to develop a high tech society. Others think that evolution could be radically different on other planets and that there is no reason to assume aliens would look like us. Still others of course believe that evolution of life itself is a very hit or miss proposition and that it might be very rare out there and we might be the one of the very few or even the only one.

The reported close encounters with these 'humanoid aliens' over the decades has always seemed strange to me especially since many of them are bizarre and the messages given to people by the 'aliens' weird also. Then there is the variety of humanoid aliens also which implies multiple aliens visiting or bad eyewitnesses.
I would think it unusual for one species to find their way to earth let alone multiple ones. So again I think we need to ask what exactly are we dealing with?

btw this was a really good read...he addresses some of these issues as well as other current science questions....and on the ET aspect lists the views, positions, and ideas of many famous scientists and he comes to the conclusion that we may well be alone in our galaxy.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/187639.Paradigms_Lost

ps: I don't support the' we are alone' camp...but the reasons for us being alone are as sound in many ways as the opposing one.

 

[feinman]

There are a few ways to look at it. Some exo-biologists believe that humanoid aliens would not be unusual since upright bipedal beings would be more likely to develop a high tech society. Others think that evolution could be radically different on other planets and that there is no reason to assume aliens would look like us. Still others of course believe that evolution of life itself is a very hit or miss proposition and that it might be very rare out there and we might be the one of the very few or even the only one.

The reported close encounters with these 'humanoid aliens' over the decades has always seemed strange to me especially since many of them are bizarre and the messages given to people by the 'aliens' weird also. Then there is the variety of humanoid aliens also which implies multiple aliens visiting or bad eyewitnesses.
I would think it unusual for one species to find their way to earth let alone multiple ones. So again I think we need to ask what exactly are we dealing with?

I have to agree. I am focused just on the objects --they exist and more and more is coming out about them, and I know how that ends because I've seen them myself, in a mind-screwing context. I am content to put the critters on the back burner to simmer for a bit. I think it unlikely that something resembling a hominid would evolve and then manage to find us --and like you say the variety of types that have been purportedly seen... Though some humanoid encounters could be robots.

 

[dr wu]

I added some ideas at the end above.

 

[feinman]

There was the "Contiguous Universe" discussion from Podesta at Wikileaks.. And places like Skinwalker Ranch have been investigated. Perhaps something like that might explain a lot of critters. As far as UFOs go, I suspect a lot of them are actually just hanging out cloaked for long periods, moving occasionally as necessary, or powering up as necessary.

 

[feinman]

I added some ideas at the end above.

I'll take a look, thanks!

 

[feinman]

When I look at the Trudel's saucers, and the Cocoyoc object withing it, and the other top-hat like module in the second saucer, and the places they were seen, they appear to be purpose-made for planetary exploration, one for thee ocean perhaps, and one to operate in the air --as are things like the "cloud cigars" and satellite objects --it is a technology --an incredibly advanced technology --able to do things like show up and isolate me for the first time in my life alone on I-5, etc.... That is almost supernatural material. And it blows my mind still. And to see that it is a common tactic after reading those articles; the surgical ability to make appearances and be completely in control, as with John Lennon's experience and so many other people's. It is freaking crazy, and there is no kind of defense for that.

 

[dr wu]

I'm suspicious of contactees who then take pics so the Trudel pics are in the unlikely basket for me.
The Cocoyoc object looks like a weird balloon to me...without more info...no way to know.
Do you have more data on it regarding it's alleged landing?

While many have seen 'cigar objects' ,etc before , should we jump to the conclusion they are 'alien' in origin?

 

[feinman]

I'm suspicious of contactees who then take pics so the Trudel pics are in the unlikely basket for me.
The Cocoyoc object looks like a weird balloon to me...without more info...no way to know.
Do you have more data on it regarding it's alleged landing?

While many have seen 'cigar objects' ,etc before , should we jump to the conclusion they are 'alien' in origin?

Yes, Trudel thought space aliens were in contact telepathically. He had seen UFOs at that spot before and so he was prepared to take a photos there if he saw them again. He was likely imagining the telepathic contact, but it doesn't necessarily invalidate the photos. People are just people and can become fanciful. I will post in the Trudel thread to discuss it there. I was in touch with his Grand Niece for a short time to show her my findings.

 

[marhawkman]

There are a few ways to look at it. Some exo-biologists believe that humanoid aliens would not be unusual since upright bipedal beings would be more likely to develop a high tech society. Others think that evolution could be radically different on other planets and that there is no reason to assume aliens would look like us. Still others of course believe that evolution of life itself is a very hit or miss proposition and that it might be very rare out there and we might be the one of the very few or even the only one.

The reported close encounters with these 'humanoid aliens' over the decades has always seemed strange to me especially since many of them are bizarre and the messages given to people by the 'aliens' weird also. Then there is the variety of humanoid aliens also which implies multiple aliens visiting or bad eyewitnesses.
I would think it unusual for one species to find their way to earth let alone multiple ones. So again I think we need to ask what exactly are we dealing with?

btw this was a really good read...he addresses some of these issues as well as other current science questions....and on the ET aspect lists the views, positions, and ideas of many famous scientists and he comes to the conclusion that we may well be alone in our galaxy.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/187639.Paradigms_Lost

ps: I don't support the' we are alone' camp...but the reasons for us being alone are as sound in many ways as the opposing one.

There's the idea that our use of radio waves has created a white noise source that sticks out when aliens listen to the cosmos. But also people who allege that visitations have been happening since before people learned to write, so... who knows?

The infamous Drake equation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

It requires estimates of values we can't accurately guess at. For example: what range of environments actually have the ability to support life in general, not just life as we know it? Maybe there's a planet with "life" that's actually sentient mountains. These are massive inorganic beings which communicate with energy discharges akin to telepathy but that are actually a form of radio wave transmission. We don't really have the ability to guess what sort of planet might have life like that.

Also as David Brin pointed out it has an underlying assumption that's probably false. It's written to assume the aliens never leave their HWs. Races that travel the stars are more likely to communicate.

Of course Dr. Drake created the equation ad hoc as a thought experiment, and didn't really intend for anyone to solve it.

 

[Comfortably Numb]

This is new on YouTube and might be of interest:

LIFE BEYOND II: The Museum of Alien Life (4k)