catseye
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Wrong side of Yorkshire for me, sadly. Maybe we should cross-link this with the Holiday thread...
Ilkley Moor Alien Photo (Yorkshire; December 1987)
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Ronnie Jersey
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If I was going on vacation anywhere, it would be to Ilkley Moor!
Fascinates me.
RaM
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Not sure were the pic was taken but you can take a virtual walk.
https://goo.gl/maps/8cBNmPShpg6VCMYp8
https://goo.gl/maps/8cBNmPShpg6VCMYp8
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Thank you - I have done that on google several times, and it is just impossible to find that exact spot (seemingly just south of White Wells, at the intersection of Dales Way and Dales Way Link I think?). There are also lots of walks on youtube, for Ilkley Moor, but never that particular location.
But I am going to try your link, thanks!
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SimonBurchell
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I think the exact location was pinned down somewhere earlier in this thread.Thank you - I have done that on google several times, and it is just impossible to find that exact spot (seemingly just south of White Wells, at the intersection of Dales Way and Dales Way Link I think?). There are also lots of walks on youtube, for Ilkley Moor, but never that particular location.
But I am going to try your link, thanks!
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Anyone know of a virtual walk from White Wells Cottage into the Ilkley Moor itself?
Krepostnoi
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I'm afraid I've only got a small dog... Here she is exploring some of the neolithic rock art elsewhere on Ilkley Moor:
Anyway, I am fairly confident that the northernmost of the two paths indicated in Max's post here (i.e. the lower one in the picture) can be ruled out. The moor rises to its highest point in three distinct steps, and the lower path has only gone up two of the steps. I think there is too much of a rise remaining to match the backdrop of the anomalous photo, which I think was taken on the ascent to the plateau at the very top of the moor. A key obstacle to identifying the site is the lack of clear landmarks in the original photo.
This is a photograph I took several months ago of the approach to the fork in the path - the "lower" path runs below the crags and above the line of smaller rocks that run along the approximate midline of my image, while the upper path can be made out as the ascending arc which reaches the skyline to the right of the two figures - presumably human! - that can be seen in silhouette. The moor continues to rise past this false summit.
Frustratingly, my younger Fortean apprentice that day refused to go the few hundred yards further to check the "higher" path out, and I haven't been back to that part of the moor myself yet, as I've been massively distracted by the aforementioned rock art! One of these days...
ETA In fact I realise that my penultimate sentence is not strictly true - I will try to expand on this in a subsequent post.
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Krepostnoi
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You can get something approaching a virtual drone flight by entering "White Wells, Ilkley, UK" (or words to that effect) into Google Maps, and then selecting the satellite photo layer, and 3D - that at least gives a suggestion of the topology of the place. It was doing this that made me realise I have actually wandered the moor above the crags around West Rock, and more specifically to the west of there - between the small copse and the old Keighley Road (I had gone in search of the Badger Stone...) My memory of my first expedition is that the "upper" path actually makes for an extremely arduous ascent: it is steep and rocky. It certainly reinforces the idea I mentioned up-thread that no-one in their right mind would try to wheel a bicycle along that route, let alone in the days before mountain bikes were commonplace. I continued along that path until the first junction, at which point I headed West in the direction of the Badger Stone.
I admit that I was in search of rock art, but did keep the alien photo in the back of my mind. Again, though, the lack of identifiable landmarks in the original photo meant that I simply could not find a stretch of that upper path that gave me even the slightest confidence I was in the right place. I returned via the path immediately to the West of the large and small copses in Max's image. The slope was steep, but again I could not see anything resembling the same quite sharp curve up and to the right as in the original image.
I would urge anyone who makes a similar trip to take the time to visit Willy Hall's Wood. It is very close to White Wells, and is one of the most atmospheric sites I have ever encountered - a bona-fide sacred grove, complete with cup-and-ring marked "altar" stone on the slight hill within. A simply magnificent place.
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Krepostnoi
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Apologies for monopolising the thread, but while I'm on I'd like to highlight the implausibility of this claim: a person would have to be a keen, if not superhuman, fell-runner to traverse the distance between White Wells (-ish) and Menston in thirty minutes. A rough estimate using Google Earth suggests it's around 6km as the crow flies. Now, there are suggestions that our man lost an hour, but even so, 90 minutes to cover 3.7-odd miles is a respectable pace, especially given the terrain and the fact that even the most direct walking route won't be a straight line. The account Max is quoting suggests he decided to give up on East Morton, but for the sake of completion I'll add that it's around 5km from White Wells. So, a bit more doable in 90 minutes, but nobbut just.
Has anyone managed to uncover any more concrete information about his movements after the encounter?
ETA @Ronnie Jersey posted an informative link a few pages back: https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/htm/ilkleymoor.htm A couple of extracts leapt out at me. Firstly:
I was particularly interested to note the adjective "arduous". In any event, if this account is to be believed, it suggests I was on the right track, pun intended, by favouring the southernmost path. The "stand of trees" is likely to be the bigger of the two copses on Max's image back on page 3. It certainly gives more of a focus for my next foray onto that part of the moor.
Secondly,
This certainly seems like a more likely time frame for him to complete the walk to Menston, but he still ought to have known that there was no way he could walk it in 30 minutes. More to the point, why didn't he just turn round and walk home if he was feeling perturbed?
Finally,
I'm confused myself, now. I'd have thought either Leeds or Bradford would be much more easily accessible from Menston via bus and, being larger metropolises, they'd undoubtedly have express film developers. None of the reports of his subsequent movements make much sense to me, unless it is part of the disorientation that he is likely to have felt assuming there was anything at all to his purported encounter.
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Ronnie Jersey
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Thank you, Krepostnoi!
I believe the copse of trees were on his right, and the 'alien' stood at the fork where 'Dales Way' goes off to the left, and 'Dales Way Link' follows round to the right.
At least it looks to be in that area.
(While looking back, I see Enola Gaia's research posts, I know I've only been here a short time compared to the rest of you, but I got used to him and all his wonderful research - missing him, very upsetting!)
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I am surprised that a marker plaque has not been erected like people have put in other UFO locations.
Going to wikipedia, Jenny Randles at first thought that this was a hoax, but changed her mind to accepting it.
Wikipedia claims this person’s compass was doing weird stuff after the UFO encounter.
Supposedly this retired policeman photo was declared real from Kodak.
Even though the photo shows more of a “ blob “, we don’t know what this particular extraterrestrial should look like.
I confess it does not look like the type of aliens I saw when I was young which looked more humanoid.
Going to wikipedia, Jenny Randles at first thought that this was a hoax, but changed her mind to accepting it.
Wikipedia claims this person’s compass was doing weird stuff after the UFO encounter.
Supposedly this retired policeman photo was declared real from Kodak.
Even though the photo shows more of a “ blob “, we don’t know what this particular extraterrestrial should look like.
I confess it does not look like the type of aliens I saw when I was young which looked more humanoid.
I'm not sure that very much can be relied on with that link. Reporting on other reports, and much conflicts with other reports. Far too many holes in the story, but nonetheless interesting.
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We have the same problem as BigFoot.
Did Spence have an accomplice dressed as an alien ?
If so, more than one person is involved.
Did Spence have an accomplice dressed as an alien ?
If so, more than one person is involved.
What's alien about it? Seems to be (after blowing up the image of the figure) like a fairly tallish bloke just walking along the pathway towards him, with a pair of dark coloured dungaree's (overall's) on, and an overexposed top section (with what seems to look like a light coloured cap on his head). And in fact, it appears that whoever this is was posing for the picture with one arm slightly lifted outwards.
Krepostnoi
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That seems fair comment to me. Unfortunately, secondary sources are all we appear to be left with.
Some of the posters in the thread @Comfortably Numb linked claim to have investigated the incident shortly after it happened. Judging by that discussion, they were not at all convinced there was anything worthwhile afoot.
Krepostnoi
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I accept that the account I have been drawing on should be approached with a sizable chunk of salt; nonetheless, I'm going to cite these two details:
So, if - and, yes, it's quite a big if - this account is accurate, I read it to suggest that any investigation on the ground should focus on the area I have circled in yellow on this image from Google Earth (west is roughly at the top of the image):
Zooming in:
So, if we go back to the image Ronnie reposted from Enola, I think it's not impossible that the researcher, and therefore the "alien", was standing somewhere on the paths we can see in the second of my screenshots, and if I had to choose, I'd start looking at the little spur more or less in the centre of the image. I'll be in Ilkley on Friday on other matters, so might wander up in that direction afterwards. Are there any obvious objections to this chain of reasoning that I am missing?
So, if - and, yes, it's quite a big if - this account is accurate, I read it to suggest that any investigation on the ground should focus on the area I have circled in yellow on this image from Google Earth (west is roughly at the top of the image):
Zooming in:
So, if we go back to the image Ronnie reposted from Enola, I think it's not impossible that the researcher, and therefore the "alien", was standing somewhere on the paths we can see in the second of my screenshots, and if I had to choose, I'd start looking at the little spur more or less in the centre of the image. I'll be in Ilkley on Friday on other matters, so might wander up in that direction afterwards. Are there any obvious objections to this chain of reasoning that I am missing?
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I recall Spencer saying the copse of trees was 'on his right' -
If you move that circle down just a bit, isn't the photo spot in that area where the pathways split?
But perhaps you're right, hard to tell from overhead, and you'll know if the backgrounds in the photos are similar.
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Krepostnoi
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If Spencer turned right immediately as the ground levelled out after the steep climb up the path I mentioned, then he would have been approaching that peculiar depression with the trees on his right. I am increasingly beginning to suspect he might have taken a different path, however - there is another track (the moor is covered with them) that leads off to the right just after White Wells, and then makes a left turn to follow the lip of the escarpment up the side of the moor - it is fairly easy to see on my larger-scale screenshot. I've been down that path, but not up it, and it would certainly be an arduous climb uphill. It was a tricky enough descent, as I recall. Anyway, if he was planning to head south over the moor to East Morton, that would make more sense as a route to take him past the hollow than a sharp right off the other path - the "normal route" to East Morton on that path would be to keep going more-or-less straight in a southerly direction.
Yes, absolutely. We are still roughly in the same fairly small area originally pinpointed by you and Max. It's just that I haven't found anything else in that locale that could be described as a "hollow". I certainly think it's worth checking out, even if it doesn't exactly correspond to the accounts we have read. I'm increasingly thinking our researcher could be standing at or just in front of the point where that little spur seems to head off into the centre of the depression.
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Well, in that case - I got that person correctly I-deed then!
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For the sake of completeness, I first came across the Ilkley photo within the context of fairies. This is what Janet Bord had to say, who certainly had her doubts, (my italics):
Also during the 1970s, several photos of Little People have emerged from a group of witches in Cornwall, but precise details of the circumstances in which they were obtained has proved impossible to obtain, and so I can offer no more than an 'open' verdict on them.The same applies to a photograph of a humanoid creature taken on Ilkley Moor (West Yorkshire) on 1 December 1987 by a former police officer. He claimed to have heard a humming noise and seen 'a small green creature moving quickly away'; it turned and waved, as if to warn him to keep away, and the witness took a quick photograph before the entity was lost to sight behind a rock outcrop. Continuing along the track, the witness saw a landed UFO, 'like two silver saucers stuck together with a square box with holes sticking out of the top'. He did not photograph the UFO before it shot up into the sky. Later, when hypontized, the witness described a UFO abduction by green entities. Despite intensive investigation, it has not been possible to determine whether the case is genuine or a complicated hoax. Although the creature was a UFO entity, it was green in colour, and so is certainly relevant in this round-up of fairy photographs, in view of the close links between fairies and UFO entities suggested in Chapter 5.
From Fairies: Real Encounter with Little People, by Janet Bord, published 1997 (but taken from the Kindle edition, which is available for a fiver).
Also during the 1970s, several photos of Little People have emerged from a group of witches in Cornwall, but precise details of the circumstances in which they were obtained has proved impossible to obtain, and so I can offer no more than an 'open' verdict on them.The same applies to a photograph of a humanoid creature taken on Ilkley Moor (West Yorkshire) on 1 December 1987 by a former police officer. He claimed to have heard a humming noise and seen 'a small green creature moving quickly away'; it turned and waved, as if to warn him to keep away, and the witness took a quick photograph before the entity was lost to sight behind a rock outcrop. Continuing along the track, the witness saw a landed UFO, 'like two silver saucers stuck together with a square box with holes sticking out of the top'. He did not photograph the UFO before it shot up into the sky. Later, when hypontized, the witness described a UFO abduction by green entities. Despite intensive investigation, it has not been possible to determine whether the case is genuine or a complicated hoax. Although the creature was a UFO entity, it was green in colour, and so is certainly relevant in this round-up of fairy photographs, in view of the close links between fairies and UFO entities suggested in Chapter 5.
From Fairies: Real Encounter with Little People, by Janet Bord, published 1997 (but taken from the Kindle edition, which is available for a fiver).
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In reality though, I know Philip Spencer stated the 'alien' was green -
Yet the actual photo (not the retouched and re-retouched photos) show just a dark figure.
Which I have come to believe is a largish dog or animal standing facing the camera.
And the 'blobs' which make up the head are just blurs and blobs from the foliage behind the animal, retouching showing it as being part of the figure, but it is not.
Perhaps @Krepostnoi 's photos will help clear it up a bit.
Krepostnoi
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Friday afternoon turned out to be a lovely day for a stroll on the moor. I am fairly satisfied that the hollow I mentioned in my earlier post is the location in question. Compare and contrast:
I didn't quite manage to get the angle exactly right, and the focal length and other properties of my phone camera (Samsung S21FE on standard settings) will differ from the film cameras used in earlier decades, which will affect foreshortening, for example. Nonetheless, would you agree the location is correct?
I didn't quite manage to get the angle exactly right, and the focal length and other properties of my phone camera (Samsung S21FE on standard settings) will differ from the film cameras used in earlier decades, which will affect foreshortening, for example. Nonetheless, would you agree the location is correct?
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Krepostnoi
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I took my picture standing outside the hollow. I have marked the nearer lip of the hollow itself to aid visualisation. I have also marked the approximate near edge of the higher path leading into the hollow, to aid orientation on the google Earth view earlier in the thread. We are looking broadly south-west. The paths converge where shown, and lead into the hollow. If a human or humanoid figure were to continue along the path away from our vantage point, the lip on the right-hand side of the picture would conceal it.
I estimate I was standing no more than 12 metres away from where the target figure stood - the hollow is not a very large feature. Whatever Spencer's photo actually shows, he was easily close enough to get a good view. That is, I do not think his account could have arisen from a genuine misperception of, say, a man pushing a bicycle.
It would be remiss of me to omit my twin realisations, namely that anyone in the hollow is invisible to anyone on the moor nearby, and also that, while it was a blustery climb up from White Wells, the interior of the hollow was sheltered from the wind. Such that, if one were to happen to have some kind of prop figure, it could be set up in a stable position for photos to be taken, and passers-by would be unlikely to catch one in flagrante, as it were. This does not, of course, constitute solid proof of a hoax. Nonetheless, these two observations do seem awkwardly pertinent after my visit to the site.
I estimate I was standing no more than 12 metres away from where the target figure stood - the hollow is not a very large feature. Whatever Spencer's photo actually shows, he was easily close enough to get a good view. That is, I do not think his account could have arisen from a genuine misperception of, say, a man pushing a bicycle.
It would be remiss of me to omit my twin realisations, namely that anyone in the hollow is invisible to anyone on the moor nearby, and also that, while it was a blustery climb up from White Wells, the interior of the hollow was sheltered from the wind. Such that, if one were to happen to have some kind of prop figure, it could be set up in a stable position for photos to be taken, and passers-by would be unlikely to catch one in flagrante, as it were. This does not, of course, constitute solid proof of a hoax. Nonetheless, these two observations do seem awkwardly pertinent after my visit to the site.
Yes I would say you've nailed it right there. What confused me was that the background of the original photo appeared to show the horizon, which it clearly wasn't. Never thought of a relatively small depression in the landscape.
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Agree, nicely picked out.
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Wow Krepostnoi, you nailed it exactly! And what clear photos!!
The hills and slopes match and we can actually see the heather and growth in that area, stunning.
Do you have a conclusion, or any ideas, after having been at the actual site, as to what is in the 1987 photo?
Looking at the growth directly behind the 'alien', and in the poor lighting of that old photo, do you think the 'alien' head was just blobs from the growth behind him, which just mistakenly appears to be part of the figure?
Do you think it's possible that it was just a large sheep / dog looking towards the camera?
Or something larger perhaps?
Thank you, Krepostnoi, for your excellent research and beautiful photos!! I know you went out of your way to do this!
