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Indiana Jones Thread

Analogue Boy said:
It tanked and then bombed
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Dial of Destiny Wiki writes:
As of November 5, 2023, Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny has grossed $174.5 million in the United States and Canada, and $209.5 million in other territories, for a worldwide total of $384 million. With an estimated production budget of $294.7 million, not including marketing costs, it is the most expensive film in the Indiana Jones franchise, as well as one of the most expensive films ever made.Due to its expensive production cost and marketing budget, the film was deemed a box-office bomb. Collider estimated the film would need to make around $600 million to break-even, and $800 million to be considered a success.In August 2023, Variety reported the film was on-pace to lose Disney $100 million, making it one of Disney's largest financial film failures since John Carter (2012).
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Why does a film that costs $294.7M and generates $384M still need to make $600M in order to be considered as having broken even? I absolutely reject that the marketing costs were in the order of $300M....impossible.

Change my mind, please, some informed & convincing Hollywood economist.

I don't mean the 'Wolf Of Wall Street' variety, nor Epstein...can we please call someone like Francis Fukuyama to the stand (or can we channel Adam Smith via a seance?)
 
I liked it, saw it in the cinema when it came out - much better than crystal skull which was the low point.
Can I just point out that he didn't hand over the franchise ?
It was speculated on beforehand online but, in the film I watched the hand taking the hat at the end is Harrison Fords not anyone elses.
Oh, and while I dilsike a lot (perhaps most) of what comes out of Holywood, YouTube critic channels like the critical drinker are just garbage click bait.
It seems to be a trend on YouTube - another one that stands out for this sort of thing is miniminuteman who makes a living out of "debunking" Graham Hancock.
New way to make a quick buck create -"outrage" channels and then outrage at the outrage ad-infinitum

Oh here's quite a good synopsis of the film - Spoilers obviouslly -
https://www.gamesradar.com/indiana-jones-and-the-dial-of-destiny-ending-explained/

For emphasis - "The film ends with Indy's famous hat hanging outside the apartment – though, right before the screen goes to black, Indy's hand shoots outside to grab it again."
Maybe some folk walked out when the screen went black and missed it ? (I saw that happen in the cinema when Lord of the Rings went black for a min or so after Mt Doom)
 
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Lobeydosser said:
I liked it, saw it in the cinema when it came out - much better than crystal skull which was the low point.
Can I just point out that he didn't hand over the franchise ?
It was speculated on beforehand online but, in the film I watched the hand taking the hat at the end is Harrison Fords not anyone elses.
Oh, and while I dilsike a lot (perhaps most) of what comes out of Holywood, YouTube critic channels like the critical drinker are just garbage click bait.
It seems to be a trend on YouTube - another one that stands out for this sort of thing is miniminuteman who makes a living out of "debunking" Graham Hancock.
New way to make a quick buck create -"outrage" channels and then outrage at the outrage ad-infinitum

Oh here's quite a good synopsis of the film - Spoilers obviouslly -
https://www.gamesradar.com/indiana-jones-and-the-dial-of-destiny-ending-explained/

For emphasis - "The film ends with Indy's famous hat hanging outside the apartment – though, right before the screen goes to black, Indy's hand shoots outside to grab it again."
Maybe some folk walked out when the screen went black and missed it ? (I saw that happen in the cinema when Lord of the Rings went black for a min or so after Mt Doom)
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Dammit .. I missed that. I used to pride myself on being the last person in the cinema when everyone else's leaving to catch moments like that.

Crystal Skull wasn't great. No one turned up to watch the adventures of Indiana Jones's Son in the same way no one cared about Scooby's Doo's nephew Scrappy or Godzilla's nephew Godzooki. The ant invasion scene was seriously lazy CGI as was the invisible bridge, I didn't like the ghost knight templar either and then someone decided to chuck in some greys aliens at the end for some reason? .. I liked the start though. I'm probably wrong and I'm happy for anyone to correct me but I think it was originally a Spielberg brain fart for Back to the Future somehow? .. Marty was originally meant to be in a fridge freezer, the lead lining getting him through time travel after an explosion but they scaled the story down because they didn't want kids in real life to start getting trapped in fridge freezers .. so a Delorean was used for the story instead that was powered by plutonium .. Crystal Skull was finally made so the idea was recycled having Indiana Jones in an atomic bomb testing Nevada site getting into a fridge freezer to survive the test blast.
 
I had to look up the Crystal Skull movie as I couldn't remember it. Figured out I have not seen it. Has Shia LeBeouf in it. Now I know why I haven't seen it.
 
I'm having to rely on my poor memory here but I am pretty sure that it was mentioned in 1984 that for the first Start Trek film to be profitable and hence warrant future sequels, it had to make seven times the production costs. I don't recall if this was some bean counter figure or a "break even" number. Despite its massive costs, it managed to exceed this figure. I no longer remember what the numbers were but for 1979 figures they were gigantic.
 
DrPaulLee said:
I'm having to rely on my poor memory here but I am pretty sure that it was mentioned in 1984 that for the first Start Trek film to be profitable and hence warrant future sequels, it had to make seven times the production costs. I don't recall if this was some bean counter figure or a "break even" number. Despite its massive costs, it managed to exceed this figure. I no longer remember what the numbers were but for 1979 figures they were gigantic.
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It might be that films with multiple investors expect a certain level of return for their shareholders, which may have been set at an arbitrary level. I'm guessing.
 
My memory on this is very poor but I *think* that Sigourney Weaver held out on Aliens because the studio insisted that the first film hasn't made a profit and she was sure that they were short changing her.
 
DrPaulLee said:
My memory on this is very poor but I *think* that Sigourney Weaver held out on Aliens because the studio insisted that the first film hasn't made a profit and she was sure that they were short changing her.
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Smart big-name actors need to insist on getting a percentage.
 
I saw Dial of Destiny over Christmas and enjoyed it. Like most people here I loved 1 and 3; 2 was annoying and 4 quite embarrassing; I'd heard poor reports of this and was thus pleasantly surprised at an old-fashioned action romp. Yo don't watch Indiana Jones for intellectual stimulation...
 
Ermintruder said:
Dial of Destiny Wiki writes:


Why does a film that costs $294.7M and generates $384M still need to make $600M in order to be considered as having broken even? I absolutely reject that the marketing costs were in the order of $300M....impossible.

Change my mind, please, some informed & convincing Hollywood economist.

I don't mean the 'Wolf Of Wall Street' variety, nor Epstein...can we please call someone like Francis Fukuyama to the stand (or can we channel Adam Smith via a seance?)
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I've seen estimates that it actually cost more like $350 million, we rarely, if ever, learn the true budgets for things. Marketing for a film like that would be well over $100 million, maybe closer to 2 million.

Distributors and cinemas take their cut which averages as something like 50% but varies country to country, it can be as much as 75% in China.
 
Ermintruder said:
Dial of Destiny Wiki writes:


Why does a film that costs $294.7M and generates $384M still need to make $600M in order to be considered as having broken even? I absolutely reject that the marketing costs were in the order of $300M....impossible.

Change my mind, please, some informed & convincing Hollywood economist.

I don't mean the 'Wolf Of Wall Street' variety, nor Epstein...can we please call someone like Francis Fukuyama to the stand (or can we channel Adam Smith via a seance?)
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As the Wiki points out:
With an estimated production budget of $294.7 million, not including marketing costs, [...]
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Most films nowadays spend a fortune on marketing and promotion. If they don't hype it to the max - overhyping it usually - then they risk a financial flop. To the studios it's a gamble - spend more on marketing and risk taking a hit or reduce marketing and risk not making enough money.
 
Tempest63 said:
Shia Le Beouf sounds like something I would knock up in the kitchen from a good cut of shin, red wine, mushrooms, small pickling onions and a thyme based bouquet garni.
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Ummm, wrong. Better used for dog food, but I would feel bad for the poor mutt eating it.
 
They could've used the character but replaced the actor - it's been done before - with the excuse of aging. I didn't see the need to 'kill off' the promising line.
 
Stormkhan said:
They could've used the character but replaced the actor - it's been done before - with the excuse of aging. I didn't see the need to 'kill off' the promising line.
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Who would you want to see play Indie?

And don't let Tom Cruise hear you say that.:slapd:(my opinion of TC)
 
Ford himself was aging in time with Indie. I would've kept him as they did. However, I'd have kept the character of Mutt (his son) but recast him. I'm poor at naming modern actors, especially young ones, as I rarely watch modern films. Matt Damon? Ed Norton? They'd be aged properly, in fitting with the character.
I think they'd missed a 'fan point' with Mutt. Since we discovered Indiana was their dogs name, it's amusing to have Indy's son called a mutt. :)
 
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brownmane said:
Who would you want to see play Indie?
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If it was to happen? .. someone grumpy, someone who didn't want to get to know you and didn't want to get be known who was more interested in antiques and preserving history. With a rebel sparkle look in his eye and probably poor personal hygiene and a hatred of snakes and nazis.

Elon Musk?.
 
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