Indigo Children: Next Step In Human Evolution?

[Graylien]

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Arthur C Clarke's Childhood's End - surely his most Fortean - and enjoyable - work. It not only features 'Indigo Children' but even anticipates the Ultraterrestrial /Control theories of John Keel and Jacques Vallee. (And, BTW, the opening chapter was completely ripped off by Independence Day)

As far as the Indigo children themselves go, here's an interesting site written by a bunch of typical whiny teenagers who have somehow got it into their spoilt little heads that they are the future of humanity: http://www.angelfire.com/art/bytheindigos/

And another interesting recent piece here: ADHD or Indigo? (Personally, I think it rather a shame that Annette decided to become a New Age moonshine peddler instead of going to medical school once she 'realised' she was an Indigo babe).

And another piece here, featuring an interview with the repellent Doreen Virtue: Brood Indigo

Two URLs above are dead, and no archived version was found.

Named for the deep-blue aura they’re said to radiate, Indigo Children make up more than 80 percent of the generation that began "appearing on Earth," in Virtue's phrase, in the 1970s. Virtue believes this special breed of young healers and teachers comes from a variety of "realms"--some are reincarnated priests and wizards, some come from far-off solar systems, while others are simply highly evolved humans. They represent a new form of consciousness that will bring about a leap in human evolution, taking us from thinking in three dimensions to four. Among other things, they can see spirits, levitate, bilocate, communicate telepathically, bend time, and "instantly manifest" any spiritual or material need.

They also enjoy the promise of longevity. "Many of them will live to be 300 and even 1,000 years old," Virtue told me. "It’s in their spiritual contract." Their mission is "to help usher in the New Age of Peace," Virtue writes in her book. In short, the Indigo Children make Hogwarts look like Ridgemont High.

It’s tempting to counter all this talk of transcendence with the observation that a generation deeply wowed by Christina Aguilera is unlikely to change the world. It doesn't take a metaphysicist to explain that the offspring of Baby Boomers, raised on the vocabulary of self-help and New Age thinking, might speak a spiritual language earlier generations didn’t

...The Indigos themselves can be equally in thrall to their genius. Writes twentysomething wunderkind Ryan Maluski, "I always knew I belonged here on Earth, and I always had a deep-seated universal knowledge of how things really work and who I really was. Yet, with grand humor, I chose to grow up with people in situations and places that reflected absolutely none of my sense of self. Can you begin to see the infinite possibilities for fun in this play I chose to come into? … I felt like a king working for a peasant, viewed as a slave."

Virtue’s list of 17 Indigo characteristics--strong-willed, creative, bores easily, prone to insomnia--apply to countless people young and old. They are universal human traits documented through the ages in literature from Bible stories and Greek tragedy to Shakespeare’s plays. But if 14 of 17 Indigo traits apply to a child, Virtue writes, "then they’re most likely Indigos." I quizzed my mother about how as a child I stacked up against the Indigo criteria, and she said I had all but three of the Indigo traits, including "Born in 1978 or later." When I told this to Doreen Virtue, she said that I was probably a "scout"--"someone sent to check out Earth before the big wave of Indigos in the ’70s."

 

[Leaferne]

...The Indigos themselves can be equally in thrall to their genius. Writes twentysomething wunderkind Ryan Maluski, "I always knew I belonged here on Earth, and I always had a deep-seated universal knowledge of how things really work and who I really was. Yet, with grand humor, I chose to grow up with people in situations and places that reflected absolutely none of my sense of self. Can you begin to see the infinite possibilities for fun in this play I chose to come into? … I felt like a king working for a peasant, viewed as a slave."

Kid needs a smack, and soon. Re: the "wunderkind" label--what's he actually done?!

 

[RainyOcean]

I'm sure he'll get one. It's only a matter of time before someone decides they don't like being called inferior by someone who is obviously a complete moron.

 

[sunsplash1]

...The Indigos themselves can be equally in thrall to their genius. Writes twentysomething wunderkind Ryan Maluski, "I always knew I belonged here on Earth, and I always had a deep-seated universal knowledge of how things really work and who I really was. Yet, with grand humor, I chose to grow up with people in situations and places that reflected absolutely none of my sense of self. Can you begin to see the infinite possibilities for fun in this play I chose to come into? … I felt like a king working for a peasant, viewed as a slave."

Kid needs a smack, and soon. Re: the "wunderkind" label--what's he actually done?!

I blame his parents...



No, on second thoughts I FeeL for this guys folks. This F*****T needs a good slap, and some mental health advice. Sounds more like dear Ryan must feel like a bird working for a worm viewed as lunch...

Tch Tch.

 

[Kondoru]

Being a bright but very misunderstood kid I have a certain sympathy for the Indigos...

They should be spanked into the middle of next week and then some more.

 

[Human_84]

Howcome you people posting above don't realize on your own that Indigo children might seem very real once you throw out all the bad eggs such as the supposed Indigo children who brag in blogs? Don't let a couple idiots ruin the possibility.

 

[Jerry_B]

'Very real'? What's more likely - actual aliens, etc. or a bunch of people pretending to be aliens, etc.?

 

[AnthonyClifton]

Hmmm...

On the one hand, we have

Ryan Maluski, "I always knew I belonged here on Earth, and I always had a deep-seated universal knowledge of how things really work and who I really was. Yet, with grand humor, I chose to grow up with people in situations and places that reflected absolutely none of my sense of self. Can you begin to see the infinite possibilities for fun in this play I chose to come into? … I felt like a king working for a peasant, viewed as a slave."

On the other hand, we have some postings about him

Kid needs a smack, and soon.

someone who is obviously a complete moron.

They should be spanked into the middle of next week and then some more.

and

This F*****T needs a good slap, and some mental health advice.

So the question is whose company would you find more interesting and enriching:

a) A guy, arrogance granted, who can use phrases like "grand humor" and "infinite possibilities" correctly in a sentence?

b) People who recommend (and seem to delight in the idea of) physical violence against someone merely because they find him mildly objectionable?

Choose wisely.

Regardless of my indignation about poor Ryan, the Indigo Children thing may be total nonsense. It does sound suspiciously like Dr. Richard Boylan and his Star Kids.

However, anecdotally, the lists of traits do seem to correspond with traits I've noticed increasingly in people born after 1975-1980.

Purely as a matter of guesswork, I wonder if it doesn't have something to do with the fact that people born after 1975 have never known a time without a lot of instant-gratification luxuries like personal computers, cable television, video games, teen telephone lines. Those born after 1980, for all intents and purposes, have never known a time without the Internet or some rough equivalent (AOL, CompuServer) to instantly answer questions they have about the world.

It would be naive to think that technologies that have so fundamentally rewritten how we do things would not have a corresponding impact on the attitudes and personalities of contempory generations of young people.

 

[Leaferne]

Purely as a matter of guesswork, I wonder if it doesn't have something to do with the fact that people born after 1975 have never known a time without a lot of instant-gratification luxuries like personal computers, cable television, video games, teen telephone lines. Those born after 1980, for all intents and purposes, have never known a time without the Internet or some rough equivalent (AOL, CompuServer) to instantly answer questions they have about the world.

It would be naive to think that technologies that have so fundamentally rewritten how we do things would not have a corresponding impact on the attitudes and personalities of contempory generations of young people.

All very true, although I've been at what is allegedly one of the best universities in the country since 1992 and it seems that the kids are, if anything, becoming more shallow and self-absorbed every year. I think you're definitely on to something, AC, but what I object to is seeing it dressed up in new age piffle--and, again, call me an old-fashioned empiricist but to be a wunderkind one must have actually demonstrated some exceptionality apart from actually claiming to have it. Too reminiscent of Mel Hutchwright on Corrie otherwise.

 

[AnthonyClifton]

It would be naive to think that technologies that have so fundamentally rewritten how we do things would not have a corresponding impact on the attitudes and personalities of contempory generations of young people.

All very true, although I've been at what is allegedly one of the best universities in the country since 1992 and it seems that the kids are, if anything, becoming more shallow and self-absorbed every year.

...to be a wunderkind one must have actually demonstrated some exceptionality apart from actually claiming to have it.

You know, it's interesting you mention shallow affect, self-absorption and claiming unearned achievements as traits because I was re-reading today about Narcissistic Personality Disorder and I wonder if the Indigo Children actually represent a probably future increase in NPD adults. This would be bad because NPD folks tend to lack empathy for others, be extremely manipulative and selfish and become angry, abusive or violent anytime their false image of themselves is challenged.

Comparing NPD Traits to Indigo Children Traits, the correspondences are rather startling.

NPD: has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

IC: They come into the world with a feeling of royalty (and often act like it).

NPD: believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

IC: Self-worth is not a big issue. They often tell the parents "who they are."

IC: They seem antisocial unless they are with their own kind. If there are no others of like consciousness around them, they often turn inward, feeling like no other human understands them. School is often extremely difficult for them socially.

NPD: has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

IC: They have a feeling of "deserving to be here," and are surprised when others don't share that.

NPD: lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

IC: They simply will not do certain things; for example, waiting in line is difficult for them. They get frustrated with systems that are ritual-oriented and don't require creative thought.

IC: They will not respond to "guilt" discipline ("Wait till your father gets home and finds out what you did").

NPD: is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends, shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

IC: They have difficulty with absolute authority (authority without explanation or choice). They are not shy in letting you know what they need.

If you take some of the aforementioned statements from our friend, Ryan, into account

I always knew I belonged here on Earth, and I always had a deep-seated universal knowledge of how things really work and who I really was. Yet, with grand humor, I chose to grow up with people in situations and places that reflected absolutely none of my sense of self. Can you begin to see the infinite possibilities for fun in this play I chose to come into? … I felt like a king working for a peasant, viewed as a slave.

Basically, he's saying that he feels superior to others, likes to manipulate and exploit them and that he appears to lack empathy for others.

Sounds like a Narcissistic Personality to me though an actual diagnosis of NPD is probably inappropriate as I am not a psychiatrist. Still, maybe Indigo Children are merely an indication that increasing numbers of children are being, essentially, spoilt.

I take back what I said earlier about wanting to hang out with Ryan. I wouldn't go so far as to smack him. Wouldn't do any good anyway. But I've learned to steer clear of NPD people as much as possible.

 

[Leaferne]

I think I've been picking up on those same traits, although I haven't been so eloquent as you in expressing them. I honestly do think there has been a seismic shift in attitudes towards children and childrearing, which I've explained elsewhere on the FTMB (bear in mind that I was raised by two Germans who were born in 1927 and 1928 so although I was, believe it or not, considered gifted, moping about claiming to be some sort of celestial harbinger would not have gone over well at the supper table ). Some of these children may indeed be quite gifted in some ways, but to me it sounds as if the parents are so in thrall to that "specialness" that the child is somehow given a free pass. No need to be polite, empathetic, punctual or any other concession to the social contract; these ICs are too grand for such stuff when, really, these are expressions of civilization (we all must make concessions; I too hate waiting in line but everyone else has as much right to order pizza or use the bank machine as I do, except for those pensioners who take too long or the people who want to renegotiate their mortgage while the lines get longer ) SO...if they are meant to lead civilization in a higher direction, or whatever the dogma may be, should they not be recognizing that these are the same values which attempt to make consideration of other people normative, and thus increase the peace and harmony of society?! This "it's all about me" mantra seems to be at odds with the peace/love/harmony or whatever other vague shite they're meant to bring about--or is it only the rest of us lesser beings who have to shape up while they direct it all?!

*tries to work "leper messiah" into the post and fails*

EDITED TO ADD: the reason I keep making my curmudgeonly references to actually SHOWING some talent is that I have met far too many people who instantly want to tell me who they know, who their connections are, how they are wonderful singers or poets or how their child is going to be the next Wayne Gretzky (as kid bobbles along falling down every time it swings for the puck). I am cynical because my bf's ex-wife keeps telling me how incredibly TALENTED and WONDERFUL her adult daughter is when what I really want to tell her is "She's a bloody welfare layabout with herpes who killed her stepsister's hamster out of spite and later tried unsuccessfully to seduce J. when he was still her stepfather." (not that these moral failings are inconsistent with talent, but if she is such a brilliant singer and musician, why hasn't ANYONE given her any sort of public recognition, or praise, or encouraged her? Not so much as a role ina school play or band to show for all of that; she just likes BEING, you know, musical, like the women I knew who would buy expensive hunters and hang out at the stable with their friends bragging about their horses without ever actually swinging a leg over the animal. Real talent, or a genuine love for something, will always find an expression without someone needing to point out that it's there) There are no mute Miltons, one of my English teachers once told me, and I still believe that. I also believe more great talent is claimed by people than there actually exists in the world--you get one Mozart every few generations, if you're lucky.

 

[AnthonyClifton]

No need to be polite, empathetic, punctual or any other concession to the social contract; these ICs are too grand for such stuff when, really, these are expressions of civilization (we all must make concessions; I too hate waiting in line but everyone else has as much right to order pizza or use the bank machine as I do

Exactly, parents of ICs are really just letting their kids off the hook of having to be part of a community and to at least respect its mores. How can people lead who are unable to follow?

Oddly enough, if my NPD = IC theory is correct, it seems like these sorts of folks are already leading us:

The perpetrators of the recent spate of financial frauds in the USA acted with callous disregard for both their employees and shareholders - not to mention other stakeholders. Psychologists have often remote-diagnosed them as "malignant, pathological narcissists".

Narcissists are driven by the need to uphold and maintain a false self - a concocted, grandiose, and demanding psychological construct typical of the narcissistic personality disorder. The false self is projected to the world in order to garner "narcissistic supply" - adulation, admiration, or even notoriety and infamy. Any kind of attention is usually deemed by narcissists to be preferable to obscurity.

The false self is suffused with fantasies of perfection, grandeur, brilliance, infallibility, immunity, significance, omnipotence, omnipresence, and omniscience. To be a narcissist is to be convinced of a great, inevitable personal destiny. The narcissist is preoccupied with ideal love, the construction of brilliant, revolutionary scientific theories, the composition or authoring or painting of the greatest work of art, the founding of a new school of thought, the attainment of fabulous wealth, the reshaping of a nation or a conglomerate, and so on. The narcissist never sets realistic goals to himself. He is forever preoccupied with fantasies of uniqueness, record breaking, or breathtaking achievements. His verbosity reflects this propensity.

From Narcissism in the Boardroom by Sam Vaknin.

I'd propose that telling kids they are going to lead us all into some great future because they're special is a brilliant way to continue our descent into corporate/nationalist irresponsibility and greed.

Edited to add response to Leafernes addition:

Real talent, or a genuine love for something, will always find an expression without someone needing to point out that it's there) There are no mute Miltons, one of my English teachers once told me, and I still believe that. I also believe more great talent is claimed by people than there actually exists in the world--you get one Mozart every few generations, if you're lucky.

Oh, but with Indigo Children, watch out! We can have thousands of Mozarts in a single generation! They're not just smart, they're Spiritually Elevated. And they know what's good for the rest of us spiritually-challenged cretins. They're going to lead us into a grand new future. You might even call it A Brave New world. :shock:

 

[Leaferne]

In a very small way I am constantly exposed to the narcissism of (many of) the young, such as when I was working the computer repair counter before Christmas. Of course we had a massive backlog because everyone decided to drop their computers off before going home, and when I told one student that there were eight machines ahead of his in the queue, he said "Well, they've probably all gone home now so they can do mine next." He was VERY indignant when I refused (although my tittering surely didn't help). A couple of years ago someone came round our office asking if we were hiring; they were told no, we were full up having just hired a couple of new people, but please leave a resume if you like. They then said "Well, they can fire the last person they hired and take me instead." They were completely serious. They felt entitled to that job simply for wanting it and to hell with anyone else. I realize that "data" is not the plural of "anecdote" but I see this over and over and over until, perhaps most shockingly of all, it becomes UNnoticeable, simply part of the general background hum of the job, until I get onto a thread like this and start realizing that it isn't normal, nor should it be permitted to be normal.

While I don't know if a rampant rise in NPD is behind all of this (or if we are simply medicalizing what used to just be merely unpleasant personality traits), I still say that IC are the toxic result of a lethal combination of fawning, child-centred parenting and new age dribble. The students I've spoken of are the same, just without the woo-woo stuff to justify it. AC, you mentioned that the generation after mine (I'm Gen-X and bitter to the bone ) has unprecedented access to information. That is very true, but they don't USE IT. It has not increased their literacy, or general knowledge of the world; they use the technology to reinforce their own worldview, indulge their own (narrow in my eyes) interests, and remain as blissfully unaware of the wider world as kids have ever been.

 

[Leaferne]

Oh, but with Indigo Children, watch out! We can have thousands of Mozarts in a single generation! They're not just smart, they're Spiritually Elevated. And they know what's good for the rest of us spiritually-challenged cretins. They're going to lead us into a grand new future. You might even call it A Brave New world.

Well, precisely. If they are lacking in empathy and compassion, and see the rest of us as cretinous or simply sheep to be prodded in the proper direction, how can they possibly claim to understand what humanity needs?! If they were operating from a position of great love and humour and kindness, I would not be so harsh with their ridiculous claims. As it is, it smacks too much of Indigo Macht Frei.

 

[AnthonyClifton]

While I don't know if a rampant rise in NPD is behind all of this (or if we are simply medicalizing what used to just be merely unpleasant personality traits), I still say that IC are the toxic result of a lethal combination of fawning, child-centred parenting and new age dribble. The students I've spoken of are the same, just without the woo-woo stuff to justify it. AC, you mentioned that the generation after mine (I'm Gen-X and bitter to the bone ) has unprecedented access to information. That is very true, but they don't USE IT. It has not increased their literacy, or general knowledge of the world; they use the technology to reinforce their own worldview, indulge their own (narrow in my eyes) interests, and remain as blissfully unaware of the wider world as kids have ever been.

I'd agree that it's probably not a rise in NPD itself. But I do think that NP traits are becoming increasingly common, accepted and, indeed, encouraged...not just in young people but in people of all ages.

Drive out to suburbia or to the local mega-mall and you can see all the lack of empathy, manipulation, creation of false identities and grandiosity you want. It's infinitely more than I can usually tolerate.

It's interesting that you bring up lack of literacy despite pervasive technology. I don't know how many times a day someone will ask me to spend time answering a simple question in response to which I will turn around and do a google or wikipedia query. Then I'll tell them the query I did and the results I found, write the query down, hand it to them, tell them the answer and send them on their way. Almost without fail they will come back in a day or a week or a month and ask me the very same question without bothering to look it up using the query I gave them the first time.

Very frustrating. These are programmers and businesspeople, apparently terrified to type a few words into a search box. But perfectly willing to take the answer I give them and behave as if they found it completely on their own.

Back to ICs, I am bothered especially by the spiritual component. They're not just smarter than me or better than me. No, their superiority is spiritually sanctioned, pre-ordained if you will.

Sounds like a perfect recipe for making delightful little fascist dictators.

 

[rynner2]

Oddly enough, if my NPD = IC theory is correct, it seems like these sorts of folks are already leading us:

Thanks for bringing up all this NPD stuff.


(Rynner looks at Tony Blair, shivers...)

There was a very perceptive Spitting Image sketch, way back when Blair was still campaigning for Labour Party leadership, which portrayed him as a noisy, bossy schoolkid, going round chanting "Leader, leader, leader, I wanna be leader!". He was shown as totally Me, Me, Me, and the elders of the party at that time were shown as irritably trying to swat him away.

Then there was Tory Boy (William Hague), who luckily never got the chance to do as much damage as Blair has done.

Now the Tories have a new charismatic young leader, Cameron, who has apparently little in the way of solid achievements behind him...


But there's nothing new under the sun:

William Pitt, the Younger
1783-1801, 1804-06
TORY

Son of William Pitt the Elder, Earl of Chatham, this William Pitt is the youngest prime minister on record, winning the post at the tender age of 24 in 1783.

http://www.britannia.com/gov/primes/prime16.html

 

[Graylien]

Does anyone else feel that this whole Indigo Children business smacks of a kind of spiritual eugenics? If any mainstream scientist were to suggest creating a new kind of wunderkind through genetic manipulation, he would probably be accused of being a slavering Nazi and given his marching orders.

Yet, we (or at least, New Agers), seem quite happy to accept that aliens or 'the spirit world' are tampering with humanity in order to create the New Improved Mankind.

Speaking of Hitler, here's what he had to say about the New Man:

"And over all will reign a new and exalted nobility of whom I cannot speak. But of all these plans the militant members will know nothing. The new man is living amongst us now! He is here. Isn't that enough for you? I will tell you a secret. I have seen the new man. He is intrepid and cruel. I was afraid of him"

And here's what Doreen Virue has to say about the Indigos:

Indigos have a warrior spirit, because their collective purpose is to mash down old systems that no longer serve us. They are here to quash government, educational, and legal systems that lack integrity.
...These children are worthy of awe, not labels of dysfunction. If anyone is
dysfunctional, it's the systems that aren't accommodating the continuing evolution of the human species.
source

 

[sunsplash1]

These indigo kiddies are already here and they're in power.With there narcism, the lack of empathy, feeling like royalty etc etc... They were born to rule over us!

They know better than us non-indigo's...

 

[Xanatico]

I must admit I do fail to see how a bunch of arrogant, asocial, talentless wunderkinds with disciplinary problems will save the world. I guess I'm just not spiritually elevated enough to see it.

Should I put Indigo Child on my resume?

 

[sunsplash1]

If you think it would help...

Interesting review article (a re-print from somewhere else) has appeared in the latest issue of new dawn magazine.
Gets a bit fanciful at times, but worth perusing...

Don't really buy into the whole philosophical position, especially all the fifth of this and the fifth of that gibberish, but there's an anomalie in their somewhere...

Edited to remove gibberish link... Ta Emps!

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

sunsplash that link goes to a story on cosmic growth (sounds similarish but doesn't quite work). I suspect the link is something like:

www.newdawnmagazine.com/Article/Beyond_ ... ldren.html

Which is the New Dawn magazine.

It's awfully long but Id like to highlight this bit:

According to prophecy, either from Mayan Calendar interpretations, Theosophical studies, or from Native American and mystical traditions, today’s new children are said to represent an advancement or “flowering” of the human race, here to return us to the “Natural Order.”

...

As we advance toward the fabled date of December 21, 2012, when the Mayan Calendar ends, these issues show every indication of intensifying as will the characteristics of the new children, who, thanks to genetic mutations, are “made to order” for handling what may lie ahead. And they’re coming in by the millions and in every country.

Just look at the stunning synchronicity of fives around 1982 that appear to back up the predictions that have been made of this time in history.

THE FIFTH WORLD, defined in mystical prophecy as a period of shift, or an acceleration of energy on every level, everywhere (referred to as the “Fifth Sun” in Mayan lore).

THE FIFTH ROOT RACE, said to be an evolutionary advancement of the human species.

The Fifth Chakra, an opening of the throat chakra globally where issues of “power over or power to” take on unusual importance as higher intuition and higher intelligence predominate.

THE FIFTH BRAIN, new discoveries about the heart, that 60 to 65% of its cells are the same type of neutral cells that are located in the brain and it has many of the same functions as the brain.

THE FIFTH DIMENSION, what was once myth that one day we would be free of time/space states enough that intention could more directly determine what manifests (the notion that “we create our own reality”), has now been verified in preliminary lab experiments utilising quantum physics.

THE FIFTH RAY, associated with the planet Venus and the virtues of mercy and compassion, heralds the rise of the Divine Feminine and goddess figures like Kuan Yin and Mary Magdalene (recent best seller, The Da Vinci Code, uncovers the leadership role of women in religion).

THE FIFTH COMMUNICATION WAVE, which is personal computers, and they came on the scene in 1982, paralleling when the new children virtually encompassed an entire generation.

THE FIVE SENSES, now shifting into higher modes of expression and usage (just look at the proliferation of material on intuition today and the science to support its value).

THE FIVE TYPES OF INTELLIGENCE, which has been recently categorised as mental, emotional, spiritual, wholistic, and quantum.

FIVE, the symbolic numerical reference to humankind and the drive to change and progress in life, to evolve.

THE 14TH GENERATION IN THE UNITED STATES (1 + 4 = 5) is the Millennial Generation and it is considered through statistical research to have begun in 1982; these children constitute the first wave destined to operate in a global village (true of children across the world) – they are the shift generation in the age of shift.

A great example of the kind of fusion between different areas of more "esoteric" thinking - throwing in 2012 is a nice touch though (although its probably obligatory)

I don't even want to get started on the sheer avalanche of wild and unsupported statements

 

[Olveres]

Now the Tories have a new charismatic young leader, Cameron, who has apparently little in the way of solid achievements behind him...

I'm sure his toilet might have something to say about that statement lmfao

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

Even if we accept this young lady's claims on face value there is nothing there that people haven't claimed they could do since the dawn of time (although some bits make me suspect she has watched Sixth Sense just once too often):

So-Called Indigo Teen Says She Can Read People

Children Are Said to Have Psychic Powers

July 24, 2006 — - Sandie Bershad says she's always felt different than other kids and generally prefers the company of adults.

At age 12, Sandie, now 17, says she went into a deep, two-year depression because she felt that no one understood her.

She was treated for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder with medication, but as she grew up, she said, she realized that she had special gifts and abilities, including the ability to see angels and hear voices.

"I see dead people. I see my grandmother. She visits me all the time," Sandie said. "I have always been visited by spirits. For the past two years, I have been on a spiritual path, and I have come to help a lot of people with my psychic abilities."

Sandie is one of the so-called "indigo children" -- named for the blue aura some say they see surrounding them.

Indigo children are described as highly accomplished, deeply spiritual, and gifted with psychic abilities.

As with most paranormal experiences, this is more about faith than science. For parents Tammy and Aaren Glover, their children are the proof.

"All three of the older children remember vividly previous lifetimes that they have had," Tammy Glover said. "And Maielaya, for example, lives in lucid, vivid memory of being my mother."

They often talk about speaking with God, angels, or people who have died. Believers say indigo children are often rebellious to authority, nonconformist, extremely emotional, and sometimes physically sensitive or fragile.

"Indigo children have access to human experience at a larger level, at a greater depth than most people do," said Neale Donald Walsch, author of "Conversations With God."

Most have piercing blue eyes -- though Sandie does not. Skeptics, however, believe these children may be autistic, have attention deficit disorder, or suffer from some other behavior disorder.

"No rigorous scientific tests have proven the existence of these so-called paranormal gifts," said psychology professor David Stein.

However, Marjie Bershad, Sandie's mother, says she knew her daughter was different "in utero."

"She was a force to be reckoned with," said Sandie's father, Tom Bershad. "She never acted like a child. She was sophisticated and in charge. It's the same with other indigo kids."

Sandie said her most memorable experience was when her friend's recently deceased father appeared to her.

"I called my friend and she was crying -- had no idea this could have happened to her and her father. I described what he looked like and she's like, 'Oh, my God. That's my dad,' Sandie said. "He contacted me so I could give messages to her family and her friends."

Sandie said that the father had revealed some private things to her that no one could know about his marriage.

"I had to keep that back for a while because I didn't want to say anything when he first died," she said.

Sandie says she can do an accurate reading of a person and tell what is troubling them and often advise them on how to fix it.

"I feel totally surrounded by their feelings, embodied by them," she said. "It's kind of like a trance. I zero in on only the person and myself. Sometimes it's very intense because the person will develop an attachment to me because they feel like I'm the only person who truly understands them. They ask me for advice, so I'll offer options and choices rather than just tell them what to do."

She has even helped her father with problems he has had at work.

"I talked to Sandie about it, and she was able to give me real insight into the situation," he said. "She also told me about an employee doing something not quite right, and I was able to handle the problem."

Some say as many as 90 percent of all children have indigo traits.

Sandie believes that all people share her ability and can unlock it if they are open to being mentored by an indigo.

She is happy that she has discovered her gift, after being misunderstood for so long.

"A new world opened up to me," she said. "I felt someone finally understood me and helped open other spiritual realms for me and develop my gifts. I started channeling other people. I felt really in tune."

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Copyright © 2006 ABC News Internet Ventures

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/print?id=2224795

I suppose in the end the important thing is that she has managed to overcome her earlier difficulties and channel them into something that she feels is productive.

This brings to mind this thread:

Madness: Untrained shamanism?
www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25484

Perhaps this whole Indigo Child business is some kind of modern version of this - rather than going down the road of describing it as a problem and medicating/treating it away the parents are telling the children they are special and training them on how to harness their "talents" so they end up feeling a lot better about themselves.

 

[Doctor_Occupant]

Is there any value in comparing the appearance of Indigo children to the rise of Celebrity? I might be way off, but since we as a culture apply massive value to specific people, sometimes for no readily discernable reason, would that lead to a reaction in the general population?

Interested in the earlier comments about NPD, must do some reading...

 

[Graylien]

Perhaps there's a middle way between treating people who hear voices as mentally ill on the one hand and treating them as prophets on the other.

From the main Hearing Voice Network site (there are also several regional Hearing Voice websites):

Hearing voices has been regarded by psychiatry as 'auditory hallucinations', and in many cases a symptom of schizophrenia. However not everyone who hears voices has a diagnosis of schizophrenia. There are conflicting theories from psychiatrists, psychologists and voice hearers about why people do hear voices . We believe that they are similar to dreams, symbols of our unconscious minds. Although the Network is open to many diverse opinions we accept the explanation of each individual voice hearer.

Traditionally , the usual treatment for voice hearing has been major tranquillisers, administered to reduce the delusions and hallucinations . However not everyone responds to this treatment. There are some psychiatrists and psychologists who now work with people who hear voices using talking therapies and exploring the meaning of the voices.

See also this piece on the Network's founder Marius Romme:Redefining Hearing Voices

 

[orderofwatchers]

The thing that worries me about 'Indigo Children' is there seems to be allot of people making money off of this. That is what leaves me with doubts about if it is real of just some scam to make a quick buck.

One of the reasons i believe this is a scam is that the target are young, confused people who are looking for answers as to why the feel like they do. You give them a explanation, no matter how extreme, and allot of them will believe you. Its the same with the parents.

Now i'm not saying it could not be true, just seems a little fishy to me.

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

Oh there wil always be people trying to make money from whatever trend it is. What worries me is that everyone story starts "X's parents think that they don't have Y but instead have special powers and third party Z (usually with a vested interest) has confirmed this."

There is a documentary tonight on Channel 4 (21.00-22.00) on Cutting Egde and their writ up is classic:

Heather's mother is certain that her teenage daughter has psychic powers and can heal the sick. Heather is now part of a global movement of spiritual youngsters who are heralded by their mothers as future world-saviours and spiritual healers – the Indigo Children.

Oliver's mother is not sure if her eight-year old son's ability to see the dead is real or merely the product of an over-active imagination. Oliver has a medical diagnosis of Attention Deficit Disorder but psychics and healers have dubbed him as a misunderstood Indigo Child. Do Oliver's concentration problems stem from psychic disturbance? His mother opts for a middle ground and tries the alternative technique of "neruofeedback" to help Oliver's symptoms – whatever the cause of them.

Whether Heather and Oliver really have supernatural powers, or not, is a moot point. What you believe about their capabilities depends on your own worldview. However, Heather, Oliver and all the Indigo Children are just the latest in a long and august line of children with 'special powers'.

www.channel4.com/culture/microsites/W/w ... lds/x_ray/

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

Blimey that was quite a show.

I am unsure if they were presenting the evidence and letting us make our own mind up or it was just very one sided.

Given the people who featured I'm suspecting the former - one mother too her son of Ritalin and had decided he could see dead people because she didn't really like the label ADHD.

It does raise the issue of the Euphemism treadmill (Where terms can become nearly meaningless):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism# ... eadmill.22

But in the end even the unconventional therapist concluded that he was ADHD - although she also suggested he had unusual electrical activity in the part of the brain associated with ESP (one too many leaps there for me) and that he needed numerous course of her own brand of therapy (handy that) despite her not having any medical training.

The sheer amount of coaching that went on at every stage was scary - the little lad was clearly messing with his mother to his own ends (a spirit has made me tired so I can't continue with the interview I didn't seem enthusiastic about anyway - cue fake sleeping with occasional peaks to see if anyone was waiting to badger him some more) but the younger girl had clearly bought into it in the end and who wouldn't with the constant rounds of New Age therapists spinning you tales - the most telling bit being a reading where the woman said she could see the girl turning her talents into a business in the near future, which she did.

Its scary - its a world I don't have many dealings with (I have a friend who does Reiki and massage).

 

[ghostdog19]

Its scary - its a world I don't have many dealings with (I have a friend who does Reiki and massage).

Completely agree with your points about both children and the relationships they clearly have with their parents. I think children offer a magnifying glass on what's wrong with the parents quite often and all that was abunduntly clear in this show.

It felt like the programme makers sat in the edit watching all the material they'd gathered and realised they didn't have anything. A little bit of science married to hokum later on, but in essense they had a show where none of these supposed powers were demonstrated beyond showing children with what could be construed as over active imaginations. The two 'sisters' communicating telepathically was feeble (the american woman saying that it was like a broadband connection when what they demonstrated was akin to the worst dial up connection ever, I'd have been phoning tech support and complaining).

Not a very good programme at all. It didn't even draw any of its own conclusions. very poor.

 

[escargot]

I watched it too. Those kids're doomed.