• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

Is Homosexuality On The Increase?

Is Asexuality on the increase?
I think again it's just gaining visibility and awareness*. Maybe there are some people who are asexual but didn't know there was a word for it or that there were other people out there like them.

* I thought Bojack Horseman did well in having a storyline where Todd realises he's asexual and it's not handled as a joke, even though it's a comedy cartoon.

1675946997152.png
 
I think there is an increase in labels, not to give precision to someone's identity but just to label someone or have a niche to fit into.
Personally, I don't care about anyone's sexual preferences - it's none of my business and it has no impact on my life so why should I care?
However, I appreciate it that folks who have X label is victimised or ridiculed and must be spoken against. Any form of discrimination is wrong and I suspect that labels give twats something to discriminate against.
Are there more homosexuals (including lesbians etc. etc.) nowadays? I think people are more open about their sexual orientation now. Fad or fashion? Perhaps.
 
I think there is an increase in labels, not to give precision to someone's identity but just to label someone or have a niche to fit into.
Personally, I don't care about anyone's sexual preferences - it's none of my business and it has no impact on my life so why should I care?
However, I appreciate it that folks who have X label is victimised or ridiculed and must be spoken against. Any form of discrimination is wrong and I suspect that labels give twats something to discriminate against.
Are there more homosexuals (including lesbians etc. etc.) nowadays? I think people are more open about their sexual orientation now. Fad or fashion? Perhaps.

I don't believe the non-heterosexual proportion of the world's population has increased in size, but I do believe the number of people who think their sex and/or sexuality is the most important thing about them has risen substantially.

As for myself, those two strands are important, certainly, but they sit alongside a good few others in the skein of my personal identity. My fatherhood, my romanticism, my sense of guilt, and my loyalty are likely equally as influential on the ways I think and act, on the way I conceptualise myself, and on the decisions I make. Only one of those has been volitionally adopted.

And I haven't even invented a flag for any of them.
 
I don't believe the non-heterosexual proportion of the world's population has increased in size, but I do believe the number of people who think their sex and/or sexuality is the most important thing about them has risen substantially.

As for myself, those two strands are important, certainly, but they sit alongside a good few others in the skein of my personal identity. My fatherhood, my romanticism, my sense of guilt, and my loyalty are likely equally as influential on the ways I think and act and on the decisions I make. Only one of those has been volitionally adopted.

And I haven't even invented a flag for any of them.
I'm not sure how we could, at present, determine whether the percentage of lgbtq+ was in fact rising or whether it was a rise in labels. I'm still open to the possibility that the actual number is increasing, and reserve judgement pending more data.

I'm not sure I've ever met anyone who would seriously argue that the most important thing about them was their gender or sexuality, but then I'm not sure that it makes sense to talk about some property of a person being the most important thing about them. Surely what's most important about a person, or what a person considers most important, varies according to context: when trying nor to drown in an ocean being able to swim is the most important thing (at that time), for example.

I would say, though, that sex and sexuality are really important aspects of humans. They are intimately connected to a huge range of things that most people consider really important, like love, family, human rights, how people treat you, procreation, safety, religion, politics, sense of belonging, sex etc. It seems to me to be at least as influential to the course of one's life that someone is a woman and is gay as it is that they are black, able bodied, have an IQ of 120, are Christian, come from a middle-class background, have two parents, and are American.
 
I would say, though, that sex and sexuality are really important aspects of humans.
True. Aspects important to themselves. But my personal attitude is that be polite and give respect ... as a default setting, until the person considered says or does something to alter my perception and, therefore, response.
Sexuality is of personal importance. But - again personally - I don't respond to people based on sexuality but on their own behaviour.
 
True. Aspects important to themselves. But my personal attitude is that be polite and give respect ... as a default setting, until the person considered says or does something to alter my perception and, therefore, response.
Sexuality is of personal importance. But - again personally - I don't respond to people based on sexuality but on their own behaviour.
Oh yes, if we ask not 'What is important to people's lives?', but rather ask, 'What is important for determining how I should act with others?' , then behavior must surely come top of the list. After that, perhaps opinions/beliefs. But it seems unreasonable to act differently towards people based upon things like their age, ethnicity, sexuality, or gender, more than behaviour.

Of course, the personal can quickly become the social and the political, which is probably why issues surrounding things like race, gender, sexuality, religion and class are such big public debates. People are communal beings (we live in a society), so there's no real practical way to keep the private/public distinction airtight - they bleed into each other constantly (consider gay marriage as I noted above).
 
I'm not sure I've ever met anyone who would seriously argue that the most important thing about them was their gender or sexuality, but then I'm not sure that it makes sense to talk about some property of a person being the most important thing about them.

I've thought about your response and should like to resile from my use of my initial use of 'important' and replace it with what I subsequently implied it to mean: influential or consequential. I pass over your objection that importance can only be judged relative to circumstance on the grounds that I seek only to address the circumstance of their everyday lifestyles and life choices--those chronic and universal circumstances that we gather under the heading 'everyday life'.

I think also that we have to accept that most people are very bad at seriously analysing their own motivations, let alone identifying the particular strands of their identities that have shaped them. I myself make no claims to expertise, but I have had the 'advantage' (such as it may be) of having spent a few years studying philosophy, and a good few more having lived as a visible minority who encounters contrastive identities, assumptions and weltanschauungen on a semi-regular basis. My conclusions may be no more valid than the next man's, but I have, at least, come to them as conclusions: the end-points of considered thought and experience--I'm not just leaking instincts onto a pixellated page.

So if we were to consider how influential and consequential some people view their sex and sexuality (it seems to me a growing number, but, like you, I acknowledge this is more based on sense than established fact), it would seem fairly obvious to me that a decent number of (non-pejoratively) 'queer' people, particularly among the younger adult generations, now make major life-decisions with sex and/or sexuality as the most decisive factor. I have no time now (being on a train and a phone) to search for the supporting statistics, but the gay men and women I know (I'm afraid I'm not personally acquainted with anybody transgendered) are much more likely to have chosen the communities they live in, the subjects they've studied, the professions they've pursued, the faiths they do and do not follow, the people and parties they vote for, the charities they donate to, the places they visit, the hobbies they adopt, whether or not to raise children, the authors they read, the genres of music they listen to, the media they consume, and of course their sexual and legal partnerships with primary reference to their sex and sexuality than the heterosexual men and women I know are to have done the same thing. Of course sex and sexuality are not the only factors in play, but in most of these areas, they are quite likely to be the dominant ones. Naturally, there are practical and historical reasons for many of them, but at the same time, if I were to remove all those areas listed above from our consideration of an individual's identity, there wouldn't be a whole lot to go on in the modern world--these are the ways in which most people today express their individuality (some may think it shallow, I think it was ever thus).

Interestingly, I think there's also likely to be a slight increase in the number of heterosexual men and women for whom sex and sexuality is becoming a more consequential influence on all the fields in that list, but I suspect that any such rise may be due to a more general rise in intolerance and a polar reaction to the same tendency among the non-heterosexual community--but as we agree, this is speculation.
 
much more likely to have chosen the communities they live in, the subjects they've studied, the professions they've pursued, the faiths they do and do not follow, the people and parties they vote for, the charities they donate to, the places they visit, the hobbies they adopt, whether or not to raise children, the authors they read, the genres of music they listen to, the media they consume, and of course their sexual and legal partnerships with primary reference to their sex and sexuality than the heterosexual
Interesting point. I'd certainly like to think and talk about this. But off the top of my head, I think you're generally correct in that non-cishets consider their gender and sexuality far more when making big life decisions than cishets do.

So, let's imagine a queer individual, Q, lol :)

Q thinks about where they want to live. And because they are queer they choose to live in a big city, with an active gay scene and lots of gay-friendly people, rather than live in a rural area where there are no places to safely gather and meet potential sexual or romantic partners, where there's more cultural interests suitable for their artistic tastes (they prefer musicals to football), and where they feel less likely to encounter discrimination or prejudice.

Q thinks about what media they wish to consume. They fancy hot men, so rather than only watching music videos filled with half-naked women or men singing about heterosexual affairs, they choose more gay friendly music - at least more so than their cishet friends who seem far more content with the mainstream. They want at least some dramatic content that reflects their lives, so they consume more gay plays and films and TV than their cishet friends, whereas their straight friends don't really have to think about choosing media content this way at all.

Q thinks about what religion to investigate, and what church or temple to attend. The religion of their parents, and of their childhood communities, didn't treat them well in the past, and expresses all kinds of beliefs that attack or ridicule some of their most personal aspects, and so whereas their straight friends seem more content to just continue with how they were raised, Q really wouldn't feel comfortable at all continuing in that way. They spend more time asking questions about what different religions say about people like themselves - they definitely don't want to repeat any formative year trauma.

And the same goes for what political issues motivate them, what charities they most respond to, and so on.

Yes, it seems very plausible to me that being queer is more influential on queer people's thinking and choices than being non-queer is on non-queer people.

Edit: That said, I'd say religion is more influential to those who are particularly religious.
 
Last edited:
I do believe the number of people who think their sex and/or sexuality is the most important thing about them has risen substantially.

It could be.

I'll add that, I think, all of my non-standard (as set by the 1950s) contacts would use it as The defining characteristic if it is the relevant one at the time. When you are looking for school places, searching for a really good Italian Restaurant, considering the coming season in the herbacious border or wondering how to find a parking spot... I don't think that it is near the top of the list!

In other words, for daily living, it comes to be The Identity only when something happens. Being jostled in the shopping centre, having abuse yelled at you, and discovering that your kid is being bullied because of your perceived status means that that identity comes to the top.

People push back when they are pushed. Or kicked stupid.

Another thought - imagine being kicked stupid for something that you see as only part of your identity! Focuses the mind.
 
I don't believe the non-heterosexual proportion of the world's population has increased in size, but I do believe the number of people who think their sex and/or sexuality is the most important thing about them has risen substantially.
I think that's very often a manifestation of narcissistic behavior (narcissism as a trait has increased steadily over the last couple of decades, someone's doing measurements). It is a trait that is more common among those who insist on posting everything on social media (not a shocker) and while I'm quite sure gender dysphoria is real and distressing along with the existence of a whole range of other preferences and orientations (none of which were invented by the current generation, or indeed the last one) it does seem odd that we tend to see/hear much about people who are so desperate to show you their specialness that one wonders at the true motivation - gender reveal or wild narcissism? Kinda hard to tell them apart really.
 
There's lots of words in the English language. Most I never use, but I don't complain that the devopment of new specialist terms that allow greater precision is somehow tedious. I don't really understand what the problem is. Generally, I'm in favour of an ever expand vocabulary. Why would anyone want fewer potential words in a language?
I am fine with the term Bi, after all, that is me. Sarah and Anna, just up the road are fine with Gay by nature - not by name. Mr McDonald and Mr Stewart are fine with 'Bachelor Gentlemen'

We actually think that WE need more unity, rather than this high definition. Maybe it's our age Delightful, and we just seek simplicity.
 
I think that's very often a manifestation of narcissistic behavior (narcissism as a trait has increased steadily over the last couple of decades, someone's doing measurements). It is a trait that is more common among those who insist on posting everything on social media (not a shocker) and while I'm quite sure gender dysphoria is real and distressing along with the existence of a whole range of other preferences and orientations (none of which were invented by the current generation, or indeed the last one) it does seem odd that we tend to see/hear much about people who are so desperate to show you their specialness that one wonders at the true motivation - gender reveal or wild narcissism? Kinda hard to tell them apart really.
Outside of the celebrity classes, whose behaviour has always been outrageous, I often think there's a blurry line between people genuinely being narcissistic and the projection of a narcissistic motivation onto behaviours and appearances outside the heteronormative box.

For example, if a man was seen walking down the street with a woman's top, lipstick and painted nails would that be interpreted as them being narcissistic when in fact they might very well be just going about their business wearing clothes appropriate to their personality, gender, aesthetic taste, and sexuality. That they are more noticeable than a woman with the same clothes and make-up is likely more to do with their rarity and 'oddity' in a straight world than any particularly self-serving motivation on their part. Perhaps. I think it's wise to be careful in ascribing motives to other people.
 
The trend seems to be rising. But still, that "self identify" does a lot of work there:
View attachment 63088

One conclusion you could draw from that graph is that an extra 2% of the population has moved to identifying as homosexual over eight years.

To simplify it, that's a one percent increase every four years.

Since about 94% percent of the population does not currently identify as homosexual, you might conclude that it will take 4x94 years from 2020 for the rest of the population to convert., ie, by the year 2396 everybody will be homosexual.

.... Well, that is, if the trend continues.
 
I am fine with the term Bi, after all, that is me. Sarah and Anna, just up the road are fine with Gay by nature - not by name. Mr McDonald and Mr Stewart are fine with 'Bachelor Gentlemen'

We actually think that WE need more unity, rather than this high definition. Maybe it's our age Delightful, and we just seek simplicity.
There's no pressure to use certain terms just because they exist. And context often dictates what language is most appropriate. Use whatever labels you find most appropriate for yourself. Personally, I'm fine with all sincere labels where a reason for their use can be given (even if I personally believe a better term exists). Labels are just tools to use or not use as one best sees fit. When simplicity is required, use simple broad terms. When specificity is required use more technical or detailed terms.
 
Going back to the original title of the thread I think people are more confident to be more open about it these days.
I think so too. But this isn't mutually exclusive with the idea that there is also an increase in lgbtq+ people. And I'm not sure how we can determine if there is, in fact, such an increase or not.
 
I think so too. But this isn't mutually exclusive with the idea that there is also an increase in lgbtq+ people. And I'm not sure how we can determine if there is, in fact, such an increase or not.

Indeed, many of the Q+ people may well be poseurs, fetishists or adopting a lifestyle choice or suffering from a medical condition. That also goes for some of the T/NB, a flag of convenience for a period. Not including the sex-dysphoric in that.

Reminds me of a meme:

tradys.jpg
 
many of the Q+ people may well be poseurs, fetishists or adopting a lifestyle choice or suffering from a medical condition.
I'm not quite sure how these relate, exactly, to the idea that the number of queer people may be increasing.

So, by 'poseur' I assume you mean that someone is insincerely claiming to be, say, gay, but doesn't actually experience attraction towards men nor has romantic relationships with men. I guess some may well fit this category, but I don't know how we can determine that number, and personally I expect this number to be quite low.

'Fetishist'? I don't follow your thought there at all with that term. How are you using the term fetish here? If someone has a sincere sexual inclination in a non-heterosexual direction, then regardless of particulars (maybe I'm really into leather) they would still be lgbtq+. This wouldn't affect anything, as far as I can see.

'Adopting a lifestyle' - is also a confusing thing here. Are you referring to things like political lesbianism? Again, I'm not sure how we could determine numbers, and again it seems to me that the number of, say, heterosexual men who decide to identify as gay and who choose to have sex with other men against their natural inclinations for some assumed social benefit would be small (though I agree, there will be some).

'Suffering a medical condition' - this seems particularly confusing. If someone is gay because of X (whatever that is) then they are still gay. It seems the reasons why someone is lgbtq+ are irrelevant for the purposes of working out the perentages (though it could be useful in downstream discussions reagrding why the number of lgbtq+ people is growing/shrinking etc).

Maybe you can explain your points further?

Edit:
Also, regarding your meme choice, I think that comes from a particular medicalised viewpoint of transgender folk, which is a point of some debate and contention. It certainly isn't a settled position. But that seems somewhat of a tangent from the OP.
 
I'm not quite sure how these relate, exactly, to the idea that the number of queer people may be increasing.

So, by 'poseur' I assume you mean that someone is insincerely claiming to be, say, gay, but doesn't actually experience attraction towards men nor has romantic relationships with men. I guess some may well fit this category, but I don't know how we can determine that number, and personally I expect this number to be quite low.

'Fetishist'? I don't follow your thought there at all with that term. How are you using the term fetish here? If someone has a sincere sexual inclination in a non-heterosexual direction, then regardless of particulars (maybe I'm really into leather) they would still be lgbtq+. This wouldn't affect anything, as far as I can see.

'Adopting a lifestyle' - is also a confusing thing here. Are you referring to things like political lesbianism? Again, I'm not sure how we could determine numbers, and again it seems to me that the number of, say, heterosexual men who decide to identify as gay and who choose to have sex with other men against their natural inclinations for some assumed social benefit would be small (though I agree, there will be some).

'Suffering a medical condition' - this seems particularly confusing. If someone is gay because of X (whatever that is) then they are still gay. It seems the reasons why someone is lgbtq+ are irrelevant for the purposes of working out the perentages (though it could be useful in downstream discussions reagrding why the number of lgbtq+ people is growing/shrinking etc).

Maybe you can explain your points further?

Edit:
Also, regarding your meme choice, I think that comes from a particular medicalised viewpoint of transgender folk, which is a point of some debate and contention. It certainly isn't a settled position. But that seems somewhat of a tangent from the OP.

I think some people just pretend to be LGBT+. I don't accept that straight people who are into BDSM etc are part of the LGB family.

Some people dye their hair blue, say they are NB, that's a lifestyle choice..

I don't accept that Trans is in itself a sexual orientation. If the Trans person is LGB then that's different. That's my position and at least I won't be cancelled from this site for saying it.

This is going to get into the Culture Wars so I'll leave it at that.

I'm surprised the Mods have left things drift here given their usual swift action to shut down the Culture/Gender Wars debate here.

I
 
I think some people just pretend to be LGBT+. I don't accept that straight people who are into BDSM etc are part of the LGB family.

Some people dye their hair blue, say they are NB, that's a lifestyle choice..

I don't accept that Trans is in itself a sexual orientation. If the Trans person is LGB then that's different. That's my position and at least I won't be cancelled from this site for saying it.

This is going to get into the Culture Wars so I'll leave it at that.

I'm surprised the Mods have left things drift here given their usual swift action to shut down the Culture/Gender Wares debate here.

I
I agree that neither kink nor gender are sexuality, I also agree there may be a small number of people who falsely claim to be gay or NBi or whatever but are not (just as some claim to be straight but are not).

But I can't see either how these numbers could be determined. Nor would these factors be mutually exclusive with an actual increase in LGBTQ+ folk.
 
I agree that neither kink nor gender are sexuality, I also agree there may be a small number of people who falsely claim to be gay or NBi or whatever but are not (just as some claim to be straight but are not).

But I can't see either how these numbers could be determined. Nor would these factors be mutually exclusive with an actual increase in LGBTQ+ folk.

If they say they are LGBTQ+ then it naturally will appear that there is an increase.
 
Yes, I understand. But we can't determine if/how many. And that might co-exist alongside an increase in lgbtq+ folk.

I only count LGB folk! I've stated my opinions regarding the rest and I'll leave it at that.
 
I only count LGB folk! I've stated my opinions regarding the rest and I'll leave it at that.
The same issues would apply to only a count of lgb folk. We couldn't determine how many/if any were insincere, nor would the existence of insincere reporting be mutually exclusive with a genuine increase. It doesn't matter even if we reduce it to just G. Same applies.
 
Yes! It was indeed at the cusp of a major Culture War offensive which would have taken a gorilla to Mod rather than your cute creature.
Lol.
This is not the thread, but assuming culture war discussions are allowed to be held anywhere on this site I'm game. I find them somewhat amusing.

But, as far as whether or not there's more gays now then before, I don't know. But I think it an entirely plausible explanation for the apparent rise. I don't know how, though, a genuine increase can be disentangled from the other things mentioned in this thread so far, such as it being easier these days to be open, or that some people might be insincere in their self-identification.
 
Back
Top