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Is It Illegal To Embed Glass In Your Wall To Deter Would-Be Intruders?

pornosonic1975

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Aug 31, 2009
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I am a Police Officer and today, myself and colleagues saw a high wall to a house which was embedded with glass shards in cement at the top. One colleague immediately stated that this was "illegal", however I pointed out that as far as I know, there is no actual LAW that says that you cannot do this. He then said that it "must be against health and safety", however I pointed out that surely a normal householder is not subject to health and safety legislation....

Now, since I was a child I was always told that this practice is illegal ........but is it? My colleagues are from all over the country and they assume the same too! can anyone confirm that this is in fact illegal or whether this is just another Urban Myth? Also, whilst we are here... does anyone have examples of laws that possibly don't really exist?
 
I remember seeing the glass thing you said a lot when I was growing up, cira 70s, can't recall seeing it after about 1980, and was also under the impression it had been made illegal.

So dunno, but i'm very interested in the answer to this too! :D
 
I just found this on a website selling some fairly lethal looking security spikes and razorwire for fences:

WARNING:
use of perimeter security products could obviously cause injury to unauthorised intruders, which could in turn have implications for the owners of the premises under the Occupiers Liability Act 1984.

Installation of any form of physical anti climb barrier at a height of less than 2 metres from the ground, may be illegal and in all cases display of appropriate warning signs may be a legal requirement.

Note: for some applications, or where the more aggressive anti climb spikes are installed, a higher minimum height restriction may apply

the main page also says:

What you're not allowed to do:

Historically embedding broken glass or nails into a cement bed on the top of the wall (or more recently nailing carpet gripper battens to fence and wall tops), has been widely favoured, however, whatever the location, this is now illegal and could lead to prosecution.

I'm not actually sure why broken glass should be illegal whereas razor wire isn't, unless that's just the interpretation of the man who wants to sell us razor wire :? or perhaps now potential burglars are only allowed to be lacerated by approved methods. :lol:
 
Well you say that normal householders aren't affected by health and safety legislation but the internet has an interesting bit of info regarding the Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992....

This gives limited right of access to a neighbours garden/land to carry out "basic preservation works". Until this Act was passed, adjoining owners had virtually no right to go onto their neighbour's land under any circumstances unless it was contained in the Title Deeds. The Title Deeds may well contain a right to go onto your neighbour's land to maintain e.g. drains, pipes and wires particularly if your is a house on a new estate. The right given by the Act has strict rules attached to it. Written notification must be given to the next door garden owner and it is enforceable by Court Order if access is denied.

The section on trespass and use of spiky things is dealt with here...


Protecting against Trespassers
Traditionally owners have put deterrents to trespassers on their wall or fence and if it is a party wall just on their side. You will often have seen spikes or broken glass or barbed wire on the top of walls.

However, if the wall/fence borders the public highway, then the local authority has powers to protect the public by having the deterrent removed if it thinks it could cause a danger to highway users. If the deterrents causes a nuisance or by your negligence injures a passer by, then they may be able to sue you. Err on the side of caution because if the deterrent is considered to be excessive you could open yourself up to a criminal prosecution for an injury caused.

Nothing about it being illegal.
 
Yes, as I thought. Well I suppose that anyone is up for being sued for negligence however this still may not be illegal.... I pasted a link to the actual act below which blah's on about the occupiers responsibilities re injuries caused e.t.c. to legitimate and trespassers on the premises....

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/3
 
Nothing about it being illegal.

There's a more specific version of that on protectingyourself.co.uk:

Section 164 of the Highways Act 1980 says that barbed wire on land adjoining a public highway must not cause a nuisance to humans or animals using the highway. Anything placed below 2.4 metres high will usually be deemed to be causing a nuisance and the local authority can issue a notice demanding its removal.

The Highways Act does not mention the use of nails or broken glass. However, these methods could injure innocent members of the public in the vicinity: a piece of glass could fall and injure someone walking past; or, someone could fall onto a low wall.

I think it depends on the definition of illegal we're going with. It's certainly considered to be against the Highways Act, but is not illegal in criminal law ie not a police matter.
 
Yes, it;s certainly not a Police matter. The wall was about 7ft high. ....Oh well, it seems that this one has petered out already! -Does anyone else have any examples of non existent laws?
 
I am surprised that you and your colleagues do not know about this - obviously, this is one of those areas of law that is very 'muddy'.
There seem to be so many laws and acts that say similar things, that it's difficult to get a clear statement of the legal position.
I can't figure out why all this applies to broken glass, razor wire and carpet grippers, but not to wrought iron fencing. Spiky metal fences are being put up all the time - some of them by government and local authorities.

Personally, I think we should all be given back the right to defend ourselves and our property. That includes use of razor wire, bear traps and the like. :)
 
I would not need to know about this. I just deal with criminal matters and this fence (if illegal) is a matter for the local authority.
 
pornosonic1975 said:
I would not need to know about this. I just deal with criminal matters and this fence (if illegal) is a matter for the local authority.

I guess so - it's not really in the normal scope of day-to-day police activity...
 
It's not illegal to put glass on top of your wall, but if someone decides they are going to burgle you, climbs up and rips their hands to shreds, you may well end up in an outraged Daily Mail article.

You have been "reckless" in putting the glass on the fence, and the poor bloke who just happened to find himself scaling it can make a justified complaint and sue you. Also, if you recklessly cause someone an injury, through something you do, or omit to do, it's a criminal offence.

Until someone rips themself up though, I don't think you've done anything wrong. You just have no defence if it does happen, you should have seen the likely outcome of your actions. If you are stupid enough to say that the glass is there to prevent burglars climbing your fence, I guess that could be "intent" to cause injury, which is a serious offence.

Wrought iron fence ornaments are part of the fence, they are designed to be there, so you haven't been reckless in putting them up.

You'll be unsurprised to find that I'm not a lawyer...
 
LordRsmacker said:
It's not illegal to put glass on top of your wall, but if someone decides they are going to burgle you, climbs up and rips their hands to shreds, you may well end up in an outraged Daily Mail article.

You have been "reckless" in putting the glass on the fence, and the poor bloke who just happened to find himself scaling it can make a justified complaint and sue you. Also, if you recklessly cause someone an injury, through something you do, or omit to do, it's a criminal offence.

Surely it is the Guardian that would be more shocked and outraged at someone recklessly endangering the hands of a petty felon...? ;)

As for the glass, my girlfriend's old place in Sunderland defo had the glass around the wall - whether it was legal or not I don't know, but it is still done.
 
My understanding of it is that it's not illegal but there is something about householders being responsible for health and safety on their property and being liable for anyone hurting themselves. Hence building sites and dilapidated buildings are usually tightly secured etc.
 
When I was a kid I remember seeing a similar security measure on a wall. But it was an industrial property and the wall I would say was over 2m tall.
 
I was placed (by my university) in a prison for a few months, while I was there one of the officers told me that the Prison Service had to pay out a fairly hefty annual penalty for having razor wire all over the walls.

As for laws which don't or didn't (this may have changed under the2003 Act, I don't know) exist, sorry if I'm stating the obvious but one example would be the licensing laws. For example it wasn't illegal for kids as young as five to drink alcohol in pubs as long as it wasn't actually in the bar. And it wasn't illegal to buy it for them. Also and this is still true there's no blanket over 18's law, 14 year olds can have wine and 16-17 year olds can have beers and cider as long as it's with food.
 
For example it wasn't illegal for kids as young as five to drink alcohol in pubs as long as it wasn't actually in the bar. And it wasn't illegal to buy it for them. Also and this is still true there's no blanket over 18's law, 14 year olds can have wine and 16-17 year olds can have beers and cider as long as it's with food.

I'm not sure that's quite right - my understanding is that over-5s could drink at home and 16 and 17 year olds drink beer, wine or cider as long as it was with food.

As you say it may have changed now in any case.
 
There is a Monastery near my park that is enclosed in a 10 foot stone wall with this type of glass embedded in cement along the top of the entire wall's perimeter. I have photos somewhere, but was completely shocked to see such an aggressive defense for group of religious men :oops:
 
Surely this is the most relevant piece of data so far?
Section 164 of the Highways Act 1980 says that barbed wire on land adjoining a public highway must not cause a nuisance to humans or animals using the highway. Anything placed below 2.4 metres high will usually be deemed to be causing a nuisance and the local authority can issue a notice demanding its removal.
2.4 metres is high enough to avoid causing accidental harm to innocent bypassers. If some numpty puts barbed wire, or razor wire, or glass on a structure which is lower than that, it might easily cause injury to someone walking or standing nearby.

Even then badly-placed sharps might injure an innocent tradesman, especially a windowcleaner or a builder (although one might expect builders to take reasonable care).

Modern security fencing is usually at least three metres high, and the sharp bits can't cause any harm to anyone (except giraffes).
 
The problem with being too offensive with your defensive is that at some point you are going find yourself subject to Chubb's third law of entry - that is, you're going to lose your bloody keys.
 
When I was a teenager, I lived in a council flat on the first floor; I climbed up the drainpipe several times to gain entry when I lost my keys. It was easy. Strangely enough we were never burgled, despite it being easy to climb in.

If there had been any imbedded glass, barbed wire or sharps anywhere on or near that pipe I wouldn't have been able to get in.
 
locussolus said:
There is a Monastery near my park that is enclosed in a 10 foot stone wall with this type of glass embedded in cement along the top of the entire wall's perimeter. I have photos somewhere, but was completely shocked to see such an aggressive defense for group of religious men :oops:

Very few young monks these days. Probably just elderly men in the Monastery.
 
locussolus said:
There is a Monastery near my park that is enclosed in a 10 foot stone wall with this type of glass embedded in cement along the top of the entire wall's perimeter. I have photos somewhere, but was completely shocked to see such an aggressive defense for group of religious men :oops:


It's not a defence, it's to stop them escaping and getting into bad habits...
 
Quake42 said:
I'm not sure that's quite right - my understanding is that over-5s could drink at home and 16 and 17 year olds drink beer, wine or cider as long as it was with food.
As it was my youngest's 16th recently (oh god oh god)I checked this with the guv'nor at my friendly local pub-restaurant, and apparently that still holds. So long as the 16-18s don't buy it themselves, they can have anything up to wine-strength so long as it's with food - he's careful to ensure they have small glasses of wine or halves of beer or cider though, and no more than two, but that's just him being sensible.

A lot of his custom are steady and local though, so by and large he knows who's old enough and who isn't. Slightest whiff of suspicion and he just doesn't serve them booze.

Don't know about the 5+ rule at home, but my kids' first taste of booze was once they were at secondary school. In this neck of the woods, anyone can get hold of farmhouse cider for next to nothing, so it made sense to introduce them to small amounts of alcohol in a supervised environment. As is one just doesn't like it at all so abstains voluntarily, and the other can take it or leave it. About which I'm quite happy :).
 
Returning to the subject of laws that may not exist a law lecturer friend of mine from many years ago told me that there was a law stating that all railway platforms must posess a clock, I have never come across any other mention of this (and certainly it would mean many platforms were illegal) anyone else ever heard of this?
 
Well, obviously the big, main stations usually have one per platform, but certainly the small, local urban stations around here just have a platform, a sign stating the station name, a timetable and if you're lucky a shelter. None of them have clocks (I do get the train within the city a fair bit.) Years ago I worked briefly for a railway maintenance company, and Railtrack (as was) were very, very hot on legal issues (this was just post-Ladbroke Grove), so I guess there's no law compelling the presence of clocks on platforms.

Properly back on topic, from what I can gather glass on the wall isn't in itself illegal, but there's a huge grey area surrounding it. None must be used below 1.8 metres (about 6 feet), and between 1.8 and 2.4 metres (8 ft) there must be clear signage indicating that there is an anti-climb device on the wall, be it glass, anti-climb paint, barbed wire, etc. Further, the property owner would be liable if the wall abutted a public area and a passer-by or someone engaged in a non-criminal act were injured (such as a child retrieving a football.)

However, someone burgling the property would be unlikely to have any legal recourse against the property owner no matter how badly they injured themselves, as glass, barbed wire etc are all passive deterrants (as opposed to a baseball bat or shotgun), and on the principle that the court must not assist anyone whose suit or action is based on an illegal act.

To be honest, you're better off just planting a pyrocantha hedge. Looks pretty, but even cattle won't try to get through it. And it's 100% legal :).
 
You would have to prove they were engaged in an illegal act at the time though.

Not too bad if they scuttle themselves on the glass on the way out with your playstation (or something) under their arm, not so good if they do it on the way in and really were only trying to get their ball back / get a cutting from that pretty plant / about to provide a free guerilla window cleaning service - honest officer. :lol:
 
I have tis horrible impression, that the police are creating their own rules.

Back in the late 1980's, I can remember someone being told that it was alright putting broken glass embeded in cement, on top of a wall, as long as it was visible to potential climbers.
 
I think that's the key. It's kind of hard to make glass embedded in the top of a wall visible.

Part of the issue is the matter of warning. If you don't tell people that there's glass there, they may not realise it until they jump the wall to recover their lost football or whatever. Knives, razorwire, and spiky ornamental railings are much easier to see and convey their menace directly.

It's also a matter of deterrence. The idea behind an alarm or a defensive system is that it stops people breaking in to start with. It could be argued that if you had any form of concealed security that might injure someone that you weren't giving adequate warning, or even that you were hoping people might break in so that they get injured. And, to be honest, isn't it preferable that the prospective burglar doesn't try to break in so you don't have to clean up all the blood?

Finally, glass can actually be quite nasty. Bits of it can break off and since it won't be picked up on x-rays, it might be hard to find all the pieces. Depending on how long the pieces are, they might break off inside someone's body in a way that could be life threatening.

Of course, it may not be illegal to put glass on the top of the wall. That doesn't mean you should do it, and it doesn't mean you can't be prosecuted for it presenting a danger to the public.
 
Just pointing out that "just hopping over a wall to get" something is still trespassing in the eyes of the law.........

Slash 'em! Slash 'em all!!!!!
 
But it's not a hanging offence. Anymore, at least.
 
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