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The Roswell Incident [1947]

Comfortably Numb said:
Came across something else which is perhaps insightful.

It' from 'Unsolved Mysteries' and features some early interviews, notaby with Marcel and Haut.

Just to note, when Marcel recalls they could 'not put a dent in the material with a sledgehammer', elsewhere Marcel clarifies how that allegedly occured at the base, after he had returned with material collected.

It wa not, as depicted in the documentary, something which took place at the debris site and, of course, neither was there ever a large piece of actual metal, as they portray.
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The above is highlighted from my post #324.

What I didn't realise at that time and seems to generally have 'slipped under the radar' somewhat, is that in Friedman's 'Crash at Corona' book, according to his interviews with Marcel, this is entirely circumstantial evidence and Marcel had no participation in it whatsoever:

"A lot of it had a lot of little mernbers [I beams] with symbols that we had to call them hieroglyphics because I could not interpret them, they could not be read; they were just symbols, something that meant something and they were not all the same. The members that this was painted on - by the way, those symbols were pink and purple ... uh ... lavender was actually what it was.

And ... uh ... so these members could not be broken, could not be burned ... I even tried to burn that. It would not burn. The same with the parchment we had.But something that is more astounding is that the piece of metal that we brought back was so thin, just like the tinfoil in a pack of cigarette paper. I didn't pay too much attention to that at first, until one of the GIs came to me and said, "You know the metal that was in there? I tried to bend that stuff and it won't bend. I even tried it with a sledge hammer. You can't make a dent on it."

I didn't go back to look at it, myself, again, because we were busy in the office and I had quite a bit of work to do. I am quite sure that this young fellow would not have lied to me about that, because he was a very truthful, very honest guy, so I accepted his word for that. So, beyond that, I didn't actually see him hit the matter with a sledge hammer, but he said, "It's definite that it cannot be bent and it's so light that it doesn't weigh anything."
 
Comfortably Numb said:
These are slightly larger attachments than normal and uncompressed, as it's essential they retain image detail.
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I have unearthed a professional quality colorization of this same high-resolution, monochrome image. The name of the source responsible is shown, as a 'watermark' - top right (beginning of the name seems to have been truncated). Whilst this is obviously still not going to be entirely accurate, it's somewhat more accomplished! Again, as such, merely for information purposes.... although couldn't help wonder how that seeming 'anomaly' now looked!

Full size image - file size too large for an attachment:

www.jceaston.com/Marcel_Colour01.jpg

Enlarged section:

Screenshot_20220414-175009.jpg
 

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I didn't go back to look at it, myself, again, because we were busy in the office and I had quite a bit of work to do.
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I know that Marcel would have had to follow orders from senior officers,but I find this a bit odd if the material really seemed 'unearthly'
 
Comfortably Numb said:
The above is highlighted from my post #324.

What I didn't realise at that time and seems to generally have 'slipped under the radar' somewhat, is that in Friedman's 'Crash at Corona' book, according to his interviews with Marcel, this is entirely circumstantial evidence and Marcel had no participation in it whatsoever:

"A lot of it had a lot of little mernbers [I beams] with symbols that we had to call them hieroglyphics because I could not interpret them, they could not be read; they were just symbols, something that meant something and they were not all the same. The members that this was painted on - by the way, those symbols were pink and purple ... uh ... lavender was actually what it was.

And ... uh ... so these members could not be broken, could not be burned ... I even tried to burn that. It would not burn. The same with the parchment we had.But something that is more astounding is that the piece of metal that we brought back was so thin, just like the tinfoil in a pack of cigarette paper. I didn't pay too much attention to that at first, until one of the GIs came to me and said, "You know the metal that was in there? I tried to bend that stuff and it won't bend. I even tried it with a sledge hammer. You can't make a dent on it."

I didn't go back to look at it, myself, again, because we were busy in the office and I had quite a bit of work to do. I am quite sure that this young fellow would not have lied to me about that, because he was a very truthful, very honest guy, so I accepted his word for that. So, beyond that, I didn't actually see him hit the matter with a sledge hammer, but he said, "It's definite that it cannot be bent and it's so light that it doesn't weigh anything."
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The GI talks about "... the metal that was in there..." but we do not know if this metal was the thin as a 'cigarette foil' metal or the thicker beams. This is a crucial detail as if the beams were made a titanium then they would be incredibly strong to someone who had never handled titanium and require immense heat to burn - far greater than a simple fire would produce. If we are to accept this as proof of extraterrestrial origin then sorry, this is open to too much doubt as to which metal the GIs attacked with a sledge hammer (also begs the question as to why the GI didn't bring a metal beam and his sledgehammer - or a hammer - with him for a practical demonstration).
 
charliebrown said:
Public relations office Walter Haut sure made sure the world know that the 509th recovered a flying disc.

Was Haut following orders or did he go “ rogue” ?
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Haut clearly confirms in various interviews, that the press release was instructed by Blanchard and as previously highlighted, apparently because Blanchard was keen for the local media to hear first.

In a 1995 interview, he clarifies not actually being sure if the press release contents was dictated, or otherwise:

“I cannot honestly remember whether I wrote it. How the colonel passed that information on to me I cannot honestly tell you. It was not that big a production at that time, in my mind.”

Well, it certainly ended up being one! :p
 
BS3 said:
I'd take this as the question 'why did they issue a press release', which I'd answer in two parts:

a) The local team did not immediately recognise the debris and jumped the gun with the press release before a sufficient effort had been made to check what it was...
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This remains an enigma. On Ramey's orders, seeming only having been advised that morning by Colonel Blanchard, via a telephone call, how some anomalous debris had been brought back to base the previous night, said debris was flown to Fort Worth at 10:00, for analysis.

It appears to be evidenced that the press release occurred around 12:00, although naturally prepared beforehand.

However.... it is on record that having spoken to Roswell AAF Base, Ramey and others had already surmised it sounded like pieces from a 'weather instrument'.

Irving Newton was present at the subsequent photo shoot in Ramey's office, simply to confirm that from his experienced knowledge, it was indeed parts of a weather balloon.

The 'Roswell Daily Record', report, announces that the 12:00 release was "under the authority" of Major Jesse Marcel and attributes it to his department within the base...

Yet, there is no evidence Marcel had any involvement...

Have come across 'bit's and pieces' of related, 'snapshot, early case material.... maybe not so well known and shall attempt to post this, imminently!
 
WeirdExeter said:
I ask this as I was musing on hieroglyphics the other day....
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Should we ever survive....

Earth... 3050...

'A team of archaeologists claim to have discovered evidence that Earth was visited in the past by an advanced alien civilisation...."

images (1).jpeg
 
Hmm... I've recently come back from Aberdeenshire, where there are several Pictish carvings that are known as 'double disc and z-rods'. That seems to be where Jimmy Page got the inspiration for his own symbol on that album, although he has never confirmed it.
pictzrodsun.jpg
 
I have always wondered if the symbols on the crash bars from Roswell would match the patterns of crop circles and the symbols on the Randlesham Forest UFO.

Are there pictures of these symbols anywhere ?
 
charliebrown said:
I have always wondered if the symbols on the crash bars from Roswell would match the patterns of crop circles and the symbols on the Randlesham Forest UFO.

Are there pictures of these symbols anywhere ?
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EeByleeVAAAbdsi.jpg
 
Thanks for the symbols !

Well, they don’t march at all.

I guess different species of E.T.s means different symbols.

For some reason I thought the symbols would be similar, but not so.
 
Having only recently set up the Facebook 'UFO Research' forum, it is already achieving one main objective, with knowledgeable 'Roswell' subscribers, now including Kal Korff, Tim Printy, Jan Aldrich and Robert Sheaffer, plus others.

It has a genesis right here, on this thread and a realisation.... there's some really important points coming up and maybe should have a wider distribution.

Consequently, a few things I have posted there, which conversely, should perhaps be highlighted here!

One advantage of Facebook, is being able to post large image files, a necessity when the subject is those seminal photographs, taken in Ramey's office.

There is essentially one related item I think might be of note and would be most interested to see what you make of it.

That 'brown paper bag' in the Newton and both Marcel photographs...

Would this link be fine with everyone?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1100706627172357/permalink/1109561849620168/

This will be the only 'crossover' - due to the image file size (can't reduce or compress, to maintain the high-resolution quality).

Although could upload and provide a link, as a one-off this saves time, as the background is already explained.

The Facebook forum (think they call it a 'group', over there) is an entire aside from my spiritual home, here - completely different participants via Facebook.

Facebook also isn't suitable for lengthy discussions and more of a vehicle to post news of recent research developments.

That reiterated, this is a direct link to input there, from such as Kal and Tim...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1100706627172357/?ref=share

So... what about our brown paper.... bag?

Did General Ramey send out for lunch, from the canteen...

:popc:
 
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charliebrown said:
Public relations office Walter Haut sure made sure the world know that the 509th recovered a flying disc.

Was Haut following orders or did he go “ rogue” ?
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I have studied this and so far, can find no evidence which challenges Haut's videotaped affidavit, that Ramey wanted a localised press release, to ensure that 'if there's any validity to this', as Haut recalls, the local media heard about it first.

Intriguingly though, separately, Haut affirms he can't say for sure, whether Blanchard dictated the press release, or if he wrote it.

Not that we should expect anything otherwise.... we have to keep in mind it was all some 40-50 years ago. This especially applies in Marcel's case, where it is clear he confused some aspects, for example, mistakingly claiming that an 'over-eager' press officer had released the statement, even before Cavitt and himself had returned from the debris site.

I''m getting on a bit in age and can't remember what I had for breakfast!

Come to think of it... have I actually had any yet...
 
I remember back in the nineties, UFO magazine ran an interview with someone (a native American if I recall correctly), who claimed to have deciphered the I beam hieroglyphs.
 
Using a medical analogy, continually charging the paddles and dramatically shouting "Clear!" isn't going to revive Roswell. Call it someone.
 
charliebrown said:
Not forgotten.

Staring July 1st-July 3rd Roswell will celebrate 75 years since the UFO crashed.
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It says a lot that Roswell is still being discussed on our tv shows and still in the media.
Wonder if Brazel's relatives and descendants have spoken about anything they know?
 
Fairleigh-Dickinson University in Teaneck, New Jersey asked a variety of people if they believed if the Roswell Crash really happen.

The results were that 34% people asked said yes.

The University’s conclusion was that the Roswell Crash is deeply imbedded into America”s history and folklore and is seen as that the crash really happened.
 
charliebrown said:
Fairleigh-Dickinson University in Teaneck, New Jersey asked a variety of people if they believed if the Roswell Crash really happen.

The results were that 34% people asked said yes.

The University’s conclusion was that the Roswell Crash is deeply imbedded into America”s history and folklore and is seen as that the crash really happened.
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Perhaps that survey should be taken in Roswell, New Mexico, where it actually occurred.
I bet the results would be in the area of 99% positive.
 
charliebrown said:
Not forgotten.

Staring July 1st-July 3rd Roswell will celebrate 75 years since the UFO crashed.
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That is their main stream of revenue nowadays. The down almost blew away in the wind before they got the idea to have a UFO weekend in the late 90's.
 
Ronnie Jersey said:
Perhaps that survey should be taken in Roswell, New Mexico, where it actually occurred.
I bet the results would be in the area of 99% positive.
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Only if they thought it would bring more tourists. It would probably be about the same 34% even in Roswell.
 
Roswell, NM has a new tourist attraction call the “ UFO Walk of Fame” for the July UFO Crash celebration 2022.

Each square of this special walk will represent someone important to ufology.

The first two squares of this new walk will be for Stanton Friedman and Jesse Marcel, Sr.

More squares will be added each year.
 
Ronnie Jersey said:
interesting statement by the ufologist Stanton Friedman, May 2005. Friedman's thoughts on Roswell deserve to be known:
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Stanton's take on Roswell, epitomises the entire context which has evolved.

It so obviously applies to many other aspects of ufology - and of course elsewhere... you either believe or you don't.

There is perhaps a small space Inbetween for manoeuvre - which is where my tent is permanently pitched.

You are not though, going to persuade someone with heartfelt beliefs, either way, to alter their conviction.

There is so much evidence which can be cited, in support of both perspectives.

However, one central aspect has come to a point with promotion of Philip Mantle's upcoming documentary.

Normally, I would simply post a link and acknowledge it's all a judgement call.

No longer.

Why.... because coincidentally and before being aware of same, I once again highlighted on my Facebook 'UFO Research List' forum, the question asked here and which remained unaddressed by Roswell crash/retrieval, etc. proponents.

This has not only just been posted to the forum, it's on my Facebook page!

Yes, I now have one and also, somehow, apparently over 3,000 friends, of whom, I might know about 30....

Anyway.... this is resultant.

Posted on the Facebook group, 'UFO Research List', which I moderate.

ROSWELL 75

There will be no further promotions permitted until someone involved in portraying the incident as implicating the late Major Major Jesse Marcel as either being a liar or an imbecile, addresses this question.

It has been asked often enough, now and obviously problematic, is no excuse for continually ignoring the dilemma posed.

To recap, this is a statement from Major Jesse Marcel, as published in the first Roswell related book publication, namely, 'The Roswell Incident', by Charles Berlitz & William Moore:

"Just after we got to Carswell, Fort Worth, we were told to bring someof this stuff up to the general's office - that he wanted to take a look at it.

We did this and spread it out on the floor on some brown paper.

What we had was only a very small portion of the debris - there was awhole lot more. There was half a B-29-ful outside.

General Ramey allowed some members of the press in to take a pictureof this stuff.

They took one picture of me on the floor holding up someof the less-interesting metallic debris. The press was allowed tophotograph this, but were not allowed far enough into the room to touchit.

The stuff in that one photo was pieces of the actual stuff we hadfound.

It was not a staged photo".

There is no evidence that Major Jesse Marcel is ever quoted as retracting this claim.

On one hand, championing Major Marcel, necessitates that on the other, acknowledging he honestly said the above.

Anything else is hypocrisy.

My good friend and very much a mentor, the late Graham Birdsall, editor of 'UFO Magazine' (UK) speaking in 1998...

"Crack the whip and do what all UFOlogists should do, focus on the really important issues. You are always going to get conflicts and petty differences, but like I say, these people who do raise arguments and do cause upset are in the minority and should be ignored.

There are a vast majority of people out there who do not wish to know about the internal politics, what they're wanting is HARD EVIDENCE! That's what we set our stall out to provide".

And that's what this is all about.

Graham would concur... those no longer with us, must still have a voice in ufology.

At least the ufology, I grew up with and am compelled to defend.
(End)
 
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Comfortably Numb said:
Stanton's take on Roswell, epitomises the entire context which has evolved.

It so obviously applies to many other aspects of ufology - and of course elsewhere... you either believe or you don't.

There is perhaps a small space Inbetween for manoeuvre - which is where my tent is permanently pitched.

You are not though, going to persuade someone with heartfelt beliefs, either way, to alter their conviction.

There is so much evidence which can be cited, in support of both perspectives.

However, one central aspect has come to a point with promotion of Philip Mantle's upcoming documentary.

Normally, I would simply post a link and acknowledge it's all a judgement call.

No longer.

Why.... because coincidentally and before being aware of same, I once again highlighted on my Facebook 'UFO Research List' forum, the question asked here and which remained unaddressed by Roswell crash/retrieval, etc. proponents.

This has not only just been posted to the forum, it's on my Facebook page!

Yes, I now have one and also, somehow, apparently over 3,000 friends, of whom, I might know about 30....

Anyway.... this is resultant.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...EYSCzk99oWM1eU8hdj6dvfGtTl&id=100023511070600
Click to expand...
It would be interesting to know what Jesse Marcel was told to 'keep quiet' about.
If there was absolutely nothing to the Roswell case, why did the government order him to keep quiet, as he claimed?
 
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