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It's just about to start over here in the U.S. in 5 minutes.I don't expect much.
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It's over now and it's about what I expected.The only slightly intriguing thing is the discovery by the archaeologists of an odd,partially filled in gouge or gully at the supposed crash site.They came to the conclusion that it"may"have been caused by impact.I'm surprised Kevin Randle was featured,I was of the belief that he had concluded the crash was a myth.
Some guy in San Francisco also claims he has found out the contents of the message Gen. Ramey was holding in the"debris"photos.Of course it upholds the great conspiracy by talking about crash victims in the disk being shipped to Texas.He supposedly found this out by computer enhancement of the one photo where Ramey was holding the message outward where it was partially exposed to the camera.This was the same photo that the Air Force claimed it couldn't enhance in '94,but I'm still leary of this fellow,too.
All in all,pretty much what I expected.Some slightly intriguing material,but mostly just the same disputable stuff.
Some guy in San Francisco also claims he has found out the contents of the message Gen. Ramey was holding in the"debris"photos.Of course it upholds the great conspiracy by talking about crash victims in the disk being shipped to Texas.He supposedly found this out by computer enhancement of the one photo where Ramey was holding the message outward where it was partially exposed to the camera.This was the same photo that the Air Force claimed it couldn't enhance in '94,but I'm still leary of this fellow,too.
All in all,pretty much what I expected.Some slightly intriguing material,but mostly just the same disputable stuff.
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Back OT 
last night the Sci-Fi channel (in its new guise of attempting to uncover new information from the US Government) broadcast The Roswell Crash: Startling New Evidence. I didn't catch all of it, but wasn't particularly startled by anything presented. The thrust of it was:
1) Sent some geological experts to proposed debris fields in the area to see if they could turn anything up. They found some interesting furrows, performed a dig, removed some samples, but in general, found nothing.
2) Computer enhancement of this picture. This is where the so-called weather balloon was shown to journalists to try and debunk the earlier saucer story. On the left is General Ramey, who is clutching a memo (difficult to see from this picture) which has the text pointing towards the camera. Some "expert" attempts to decipher the blobs of the enhanced photo (here) and comes up with some intriguing phrases including "victims of the wreck" which suggests a crash with recovered bodies. This was, I thought, a new angle, though this morning I discovered similar findings from four years ago.
3) Yet more eye-witness testimony based on heresay. The new "witness" trotted out didn't strike me as at all believable.
4) One of the key "witnesses" (Frank Kaufman now deceased) was shown to be lying.
5) Point was made that silver foil was used in Hershey bars way back in the 1920s, so those that discovered the material might have already been familiar with it. Hmm, perhaps.
News story on the documentary
last night the Sci-Fi channel (in its new guise of attempting to uncover new information from the US Government) broadcast The Roswell Crash: Startling New Evidence. I didn't catch all of it, but wasn't particularly startled by anything presented. The thrust of it was:1) Sent some geological experts to proposed debris fields in the area to see if they could turn anything up. They found some interesting furrows, performed a dig, removed some samples, but in general, found nothing.
2) Computer enhancement of this picture. This is where the so-called weather balloon was shown to journalists to try and debunk the earlier saucer story. On the left is General Ramey, who is clutching a memo (difficult to see from this picture) which has the text pointing towards the camera. Some "expert" attempts to decipher the blobs of the enhanced photo (here) and comes up with some intriguing phrases including "victims of the wreck" which suggests a crash with recovered bodies. This was, I thought, a new angle, though this morning I discovered similar findings from four years ago.
3) Yet more eye-witness testimony based on heresay. The new "witness" trotted out didn't strike me as at all believable.
4) One of the key "witnesses" (Frank Kaufman now deceased) was shown to be lying.
5) Point was made that silver foil was used in Hershey bars way back in the 1920s, so those that discovered the material might have already been familiar with it. Hmm, perhaps.
News story on the documentary
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Anonymous
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here's link to David Rudiak/telegraph photo
http://roswellproof.homestead.com/
also general summery of all 'witnesses' accounts etc....
what about the Brig. Generals Exon and Dubose?-curious
http://roswellproof.homestead.com/
also general summery of all 'witnesses' accounts etc....
what about the Brig. Generals Exon and Dubose?-curious
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Isn't it strange that a "top-secret" Mogul balloon was "lost" in the first place?
woops-fell off the radar-so what?...we'll just wait till someone finds it.....come on-if it's that top secret-why weren't they/we looking for it intently......
woops-fell off the radar-so what?...we'll just wait till someone finds it.....come on-if it's that top secret-why weren't they/we looking for it intently......
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Moderator's Note
Two identically-themed threads merged: I've extracted the discussion previously within about the Dropa Stones and awarded them their own thread.
Stu
Two identically-themed threads merged: I've extracted the discussion previously within about the Dropa Stones and awarded them their own thread.
Stu
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Hmm does it not strike anyone as just plain dumb that he would walk in to a press confrence with a piece of paper like this????
More Roswell crap, I have a Boost wrapper here next to me....I scrunch it up, let go, it retains its origional shape....nothing ET
More Roswell crap, I have a Boost wrapper here next to me....I scrunch it up, let go, it retains its origional shape....nothing ET
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Boost wrappers were not available in I947---Billyjoe said:
They have in fact been reverse engineered from chocolate bar wrappers discovered at Roswell
like velcro
steve b
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BillyJoe:"Hmm does it not strike anyone as just plain dumb that he would walk in to a press confrence with a piece of paper like this????"
reality-it wasn't a "press confrence".....the (one) photographer was in the room, with the stuff laying around--Ramey walked in -hey let's get a picture....weren't no press conference-no horde of reporters waitin around for the expose'.....
Isn't it "dumb" that the original report is about a crashed disc/flying saucer?-
It's an "Enigma"--just watched this movie couple hours ago---Brits broke the German code and found the Ruskies (allies then) had executed Polishsoldiers/mass graves.....quandary....gotta hide this....
Personally-it seems more like a plan to 'pretend' we got one of the discs.....when Gorbie finally visited here, Ronnie showed him what we've accomplished......Evil Empire Falls....cos ET's on our side....na na na na na na!
I don't understand why Roswell wasn't even mentioned by Capt. Ruppelt in his "Report...."---
reality-it wasn't a "press confrence".....the (one) photographer was in the room, with the stuff laying around--Ramey walked in -hey let's get a picture....weren't no press conference-no horde of reporters waitin around for the expose'.....
Isn't it "dumb" that the original report is about a crashed disc/flying saucer?-
It's an "Enigma"--just watched this movie couple hours ago---Brits broke the German code and found the Ruskies (allies then) had executed Polishsoldiers/mass graves.....quandary....gotta hide this....
Personally-it seems more like a plan to 'pretend' we got one of the discs.....when Gorbie finally visited here, Ronnie showed him what we've accomplished......Evil Empire Falls....cos ET's on our side....na na na na na na!
I don't understand why Roswell wasn't even mentioned by Capt. Ruppelt in his "Report...."---
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Roswell wasn't mentioned in the UFO books of the 50's,60's and early and mid-70's because it had been completely forgotten immediately after it happened.Other than a mention of a crashed saucer somewhere in the southwest in a sensational(and rapidly discredited)book by reporter Frank Scully in 1953,there were nothing but unbelieved rumors about Roswell until Stanton Friedman dug up Jesse Marcel in 1978.
Take it from me,as an avid reader of anything I could get about UFO's from the mid 60's on,the name Roswell was never mentioned in any of the literature until Charles Berlitz came out with"The Roswell Incident"in 1980.It's been one loony story after another since then,unfortunately,another obsession of usually loony American ufology.
Take it from me,as an avid reader of anything I could get about UFO's from the mid 60's on,the name Roswell was never mentioned in any of the literature until Charles Berlitz came out with"The Roswell Incident"in 1980.It's been one loony story after another since then,unfortunately,another obsession of usually loony American ufology.
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"completely forgotten immediately after it happened."
This is what i find so bizzare, really.....There's no reason at all Capt. Ruppelt didn't include this in his "report",he covers everything except this, it's a perfect story -but nothing on it.(it's essential reading for anyone interested in UFO's-hell, he invented the term!).......and Maj. Keyhoe never mentions it...( i received both of these early works from a friend whose uncle was Air Force/commercial pilot, familiar with the 'reports' from 50,60,.....)...seems K 'hints' at this----completely forgotten or thoroughtly squashed?
This is what i find so bizzare, really.....There's no reason at all Capt. Ruppelt didn't include this in his "report",he covers everything except this, it's a perfect story -but nothing on it.(it's essential reading for anyone interested in UFO's-hell, he invented the term!).......and Maj. Keyhoe never mentions it...( i received both of these early works from a friend whose uncle was Air Force/commercial pilot, familiar with the 'reports' from 50,60,.....)...seems K 'hints' at this----completely forgotten or thoroughtly squashed?
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I suppose,on second thought,that it is somewhat odd that neither Ruppelt or Keyhoe ever mentioned it,especially in light of Keyhoe's obssession with the Air Force's supposed repression of the truth.
On the other hand,they both could have privately accepted the balloon story and found the incident embarassing,so kept quiet about the whole thing.
On the other hand,they both could have privately accepted the balloon story and found the incident embarassing,so kept quiet about the whole thing.
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"they both could have privately accepted the balloon story and found the incident embarassing..."
with Keyhoe-possibly-but Ruppelt ?--he presents the hoaxes and wants to separate the wheat from the chaff--seriously, the "Report..." (1956) was/is as objective as it gets-didn't pull any punches---as it is, he had nothing to report on Roswell cos there was nothing available "in the record"--no records being kept/centralized at that moment.....he's in charge of "UFO's" and no one even reports to him in 1952 when the "Armada" flies over DC--he reads about it in the papers!!!!......he clearly alludes to 'coverup and intimidation' of those working the radar towers.....the book's on-line.....DC Merry-Go-Round chapter.....
http://www.nicap.dabsol.co.uk/twelve.htm
i'm not saying this is about Et getting shot down......what if it were an anti-gravity 'flying machine' from another top-secret project-totally ours-....that's the cover-up...we got it/had it back then in first stage developement.......the Mogul Baloon theory is BS-that's a 700mph peligan!
best
with Keyhoe-possibly-but Ruppelt ?--he presents the hoaxes and wants to separate the wheat from the chaff--seriously, the "Report..." (1956) was/is as objective as it gets-didn't pull any punches---as it is, he had nothing to report on Roswell cos there was nothing available "in the record"--no records being kept/centralized at that moment.....he's in charge of "UFO's" and no one even reports to him in 1952 when the "Armada" flies over DC--he reads about it in the papers!!!!......he clearly alludes to 'coverup and intimidation' of those working the radar towers.....the book's on-line.....DC Merry-Go-Round chapter.....
http://www.nicap.dabsol.co.uk/twelve.htm
i'm not saying this is about Et getting shot down......what if it were an anti-gravity 'flying machine' from another top-secret project-totally ours-....that's the cover-up...we got it/had it back then in first stage developement.......the Mogul Baloon theory is BS-that's a 700mph peligan!
best
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Regarding Roswell, I'd be interested to hear anyone with evidence that it wasn't Mogul. In my mind, the case is closed, though as with all Forteana, probably not for long.
Regarding Ruppelt, apart from the case being officially closed and forgotten within days of the original report, all the official documents were illegally destroyed - though I guess no-one knows when or by whom.
Regarding Ruppelt, apart from the case being officially closed and forgotten within days of the original report, all the official documents were illegally destroyed - though I guess no-one knows when or by whom.
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re MOGUL
where are the facts on Mogul?--what's a balloon train?--how many?--what altitude?---supposed "to determine the status of Russian attempts to build nuclear weapons"---hanging in the air around Roswell?--again, it's so damn secret they lose it and and have no idea where it came down, and never went looking for it?......does Kal give all the facts/ask all the questions?.....
Marcel written off :"Marcel's tendency to exaggerate was specifically noted in his military file by none other than the commander of the base at Roswell at that time, in a review of his performance that was signed just after the incident occurred. " "none other"-who would you expect-Truman himself?
this is 'suspicious' to me.......and hell, Stan and Nat. Inqu.-what do you expect?......
yet, given the mind-set in those days-the splitting of the Army into the AF--guys like Curtis LeMay (nuke the gooks back to the stone-age--) standing in the door at Wright telling Goldwater to 'never damn ask again'......
a mail-pouch full of flying saucer remains--looks like a lot more in the photo--it doesn't 'jive man, just doesn't jive'....
cheers!
where are the facts on Mogul?--what's a balloon train?--how many?--what altitude?---supposed "to determine the status of Russian attempts to build nuclear weapons"---hanging in the air around Roswell?--again, it's so damn secret they lose it and and have no idea where it came down, and never went looking for it?......does Kal give all the facts/ask all the questions?.....
Marcel written off :"Marcel's tendency to exaggerate was specifically noted in his military file by none other than the commander of the base at Roswell at that time, in a review of his performance that was signed just after the incident occurred. " "none other"-who would you expect-Truman himself?
this is 'suspicious' to me.......and hell, Stan and Nat. Inqu.-what do you expect?......
yet, given the mind-set in those days-the splitting of the Army into the AF--guys like Curtis LeMay (nuke the gooks back to the stone-age--) standing in the door at Wright telling Goldwater to 'never damn ask again'......
a mail-pouch full of flying saucer remains--looks like a lot more in the photo--it doesn't 'jive man, just doesn't jive'....
cheers!
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Try
http://muller.lbl.gov/teaching/Physics10/Roswell/NYTimesMogul.html
for a description of what Mogul was all about.
Sounds plausible to me.
http://muller.lbl.gov/teaching/Physics10/Roswell/NYTimesMogul.html
for a description of what Mogul was all about.
Sounds plausible to me.
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Extraterrestrial retrivals a deliberate Cold War Front
I've heard it many times before, but Jumpin'spider's reply, kinda put it rather concisely. Knocked the nail on the head, my friend.
Were Roswell, MAJ-12 Docs etc etc deliberate ploys by US intelligiance sections to confuse the enemy(ie's). It would help on many levels, the most obvious being "don''t blame us for incursions into your airspace it's the aliens". I always remember the comment Reagan said to Gorbie about alien threats belittleing our puny wars......:hmph:
I've heard it many times before, but Jumpin'spider's reply, kinda put it rather concisely. Knocked the nail on the head, my friend.
Were Roswell, MAJ-12 Docs etc etc deliberate ploys by US intelligiance sections to confuse the enemy(ie's). It would help on many levels, the most obvious being "don''t blame us for incursions into your airspace it's the aliens". I always remember the comment Reagan said to Gorbie about alien threats belittleing our puny wars......:hmph:
Roswell declassified..
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/military/2003/6/roswell_declassified/
Eventually, the collection moved to a climate-controlled archive in College Park, Md., about a half-hour drive east of Washington, D.C. And there the files would have remained undisturbed were it not for a law that forces the government to periodically review a document's security classification.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/military/2003/6/roswell_declassified/
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Interesting, but, as expected, it raises more questons than it answers. If one believes everything stated and filed, then the paperwork merely precludes a cover-up after the fact not at the time. That is to say, if false records were made and filed at the time then we should not be suprised that when released they endorse the 'official' chain of events. Possibly the most intersting stuff here concerns Kaufmann's alledged retractions but its all woefully unattested and doubts over Kaufmann's statements do not inevitably lead one to doubt what is alledged to have taken place all those years ago (not that i'm a 'believer' anyway).
Lol - oh, I see. If it doesn't say anything about a crashed UFO, it's all fake and cover-up?? What will instead probably be the case is that it'll be low-level stuff and not anything of much use to researchers.
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More Roswell Stuff
dunno if this was posted anywhere before, but i was reading the post on the main fortean page, about the roswell documents being released etc, and the fact that there was no conclusive evidence discovered, etc.
just wondering if anyone might think that perhaps roswell was created to divert attention from something entirely unrelated to the incident?
dunno if this was posted anywhere before, but i was reading the post on the main fortean page, about the roswell documents being released etc, and the fact that there was no conclusive evidence discovered, etc.
just wondering if anyone might think that perhaps roswell was created to divert attention from something entirely unrelated to the incident?
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Bump
Stu
Sure has, so I've merged it with the relevant thread.plunkotica said:
Stu
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JerryB said:
Now, i don't believe i said that! :no-no:
I merely pointed out that a cover-up was not precluded. As to whether there was or was not a cover-up, or indeed anything to be obfuscated, i expressed no opinion.
I take your point though, its somewhat unhelpful to claim simultaneously:
a)If a ufo is documented then it obviously was a ufo and an ensuing government cover-up.
and
b)If there is no ufo documented then there was a cover-up and the government are still deceiving us.
Sorta damned if they do and damned if they don't!
cool stuff here transcripts on ROSEWELL
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0307/01/lkl.00.html I also posted on breaking news should be on there tomorrow LOT TO READ!! :eek!!!!:
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0307/01/lkl.00.html I also posted on breaking news should be on there tomorrow LOT TO READ!! :eek!!!!:
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I don't know. I was reading a book once and it said that the metal found at the Roswell crash was not know to exist on Earth and that it was incredible metal that could not be cut, burned etc..., but that it could bend and go back to its origional shape.