Is The Queen Dead?

Austin Popper

Emperor of Antarctica
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
853
Reaction score
1,628
Points
134
Location
Colorado, where the gold is still elusive
One of my favourite Phillip K. Dick novels is Now Wait For Last Year, in which the leader of earth keeps dying, and secret agents have to repeatedly pull in copies of him from other dimensions to keep the appearance of political stability.
That could explain the apparent lack of missing elderly upper class English women who have borne an uncanny resemblance to the Queen, in both appearance and speech, for the past several decades. I like it. Much more complicated and fun than just observing that the Queen is another year older and has lost some weight.
 

merricat

Princess of the paranormal paradiddle.
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
161
Reaction score
509
Points
99
Location
UK
Well, she’s been in the press a lot recently (a whole other can o worms), front page fodder. Perhaps they’re testing us to see if anyone can spot the faux majesty.

Don’t the Paul-is-dead people refer to the usurper as ‘faul’?

Fauxlizebeth.
 

Anonymous-50446

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Jun 27, 2015
Messages
8,859
Reaction score
10,870
Points
279
Well, she’s been in the press a lot recently (a whole other can o worms), front page fodder. Perhaps they’re testing us to see if anyone can spot the faux majesty.
If she's avoiding taxes, then she's already a faux majesty.
 

Analogue Boy

The new Number 6
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
10,923
Reaction score
10,056
Points
309
If she's avoiding taxes, then she's already a faux majesty.
How about she does a job to get paid taxes?

The wide point being she is the monarch and a good one at that.
I suppose she could ask for her image to be taken off all the money for intellectual copyright reasons. Then where would we be?
 

James_H

And I like to roam the land
Joined
May 18, 2002
Messages
7,689
Reaction score
6,235
Points
309
Every thread needs a theme song, etc
 

genex17

Ephemeral Spectre
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
338
Reaction score
707
Points
109
Location
Bezerkeley
i'm just amazed. Queen Elizabeth ascended the throne when Harry Truman was president and has lasted all the way to Donald Trump. I mentioned that to the company around me during coffee break and one nervously said, "Oh no, she'll outlast Trump!!" She did not like the thought of the Queen's passing while the Despised Donald is still in office.
 
Last edited:

Analis

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
1,624
Reaction score
353
Points
99
I wonder... Many prominent political figures have been said to be temporarily replaced at one time or another by a lookalike, for security reasons (Franklin Roosevelt, Staline, Saddam Hussein...), but is there an established instance, proven beyond reasonable doubt ?

And is there a case of a dead leader being replaced by substitutes for a long period of time ? I mean, again, a proven case ?
 

Krepostnoi

Zing boom tararrel
Joined
Jul 9, 2012
Messages
3,573
Reaction score
7,474
Points
209
I wonder... Many prominent political figures have been said to be temporarily replaced at one time or another by a lookalike, for security reasons (Franklin Roosevelt, Staline, Saddam Hussein...), but is there an established instance, proven beyond reasonable doubt ?

And is there a case of a dead leader being replaced by substitutes for a long period of time ? I mean, again, a proven case ?
I've always laboured under the fond impression that Mussolini actually rode as a motorcycle outrider in his motorcade, with a lookalike in 'his' limo. I refuse to Google this, so as not spoil my illusions. I also vaguely recall that Field Marshal Montgomery famously had a double, but I forget the reason why.

I nominate this post for the prize of most useful contribution to a thread ever.
 

Analis

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
1,624
Reaction score
353
Points
99
I've always laboured under the fond impression that Mussolini actually rode as a motorcycle outrider in his motorcade, with a lookalike in 'his' limo. I refuse to Google this, so as not spoil my illusions.
Research on the internet is often frustrating, it is surprisingly difficult to find any item relating to the topic, despite that it is supposed to be quite popular.
Saddam Hussein is a pristine example, as it was widely assumed that he used an army of body doubles, a belief based on good photographic evidence and other intriguing features (such as the discrepancy between the obvious old age of the true Saddam Hussein as revealed after his capture, and his appearances as a much younger man a few months before). However, despite rumours that some of his lookalikes had been captured by invasion forces, it seems that, at least officialy, none of the putatives doubles were even identified. Internet searches come only with this kind of results :
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=A9mSs3PGYhFawAEAXBZjAQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTByZm5kMHEyBGNvbG8DaXIyBHBvcwM3BHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--?qid=20081219063508AAQvoWC&p=Saddam Hussein lookalikes body doubles
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2003/dec/16/20031216-102509-5288r/

The wikipedia pages on look-alikes and body doubles can not give any reference to solid evidence of their existence*. However, in the case of Stalin, another personality often cited as having used lookalikes for security reasons, things are different. Less because it is known that he was impersonnated by an actor, Mikheil Gelovani, in various propaganda films in the 30s and 40s, but because there are two men who came out claiming that they had been decoys of the Soviet despot. But I don't know if their claims could be checked. One of them was known only under the alias of 'Rashid' , and died in 1991. The other one, Felix Dadaev, wrote his autobiography of his life as a body double in 2008, aged 88 years (note that there was a great difference of age between both).
The wikipedia pages state that Author W. Hugh Thomas wrote in a book written in 1996, Doppelgangers, that Hitler had occasionally used as a decoy a Gustav Weller, who was caught and interrogated by Allied troops after Hitler's death. If true, it is little known, I don't remember hearing or reading about this one.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Look-alike
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_decoy

I also vaguely recall that Field Marshal Montgomery famously had a double, but I forget the reason why.
It emerges that it is the instance that is definitely proven. In fact, Field Marshall Montgomery had two decoys ; from the wikipedia page :
Perhaps the most famous political decoy, soldier M. E. Clifton James successfully impersonated General Bernard Montgomery ("Monty") for intelligence purposes during World War II.[5] In 1940, James acted in an Army production called When Knights Were Bold and his photograph appeared in an Army newspaper with a remark about how much he resembled General Montgomery.

As a result, he was approached by actor David Niven in May 1944. Niven, then a Colonel in the Army Kinematograph Section, told James he was wanted to impersonate "Monty", as this would allow Montgomery to be somewhere else, thus confusing the Germans.

James had to learn Montgomery's gestures, mannerisms, gait and voice and had to give up smoking.

Because James had lost his right-hand middle finger in the First World War, a realistic replacement was made.

Even his wife had to be deceived and was both kept in the dark and sent back to Leicester. Once he was trained, his trip as "Monty" was to Gibraltar and from there to Algiers. "Monty's" presence succeeded in confusing the Germans in regard to the invasion plans.

James was later the subject of a biopic called I Was Monty's Double starring James himself in (of course) the double role as Monty and himself.

The second (and less famous) "Monty's Double", Keith Deamer Banwell,[6] was serving with the land-based Long Range Desert Group.

Banwell was captured in a raid on Tobruk, but with a friend managed to steal a German vehicle and escape. During a subsequent raid on Crete he was taken prisoner at Heraklion and put under the personal supervision of former world heavyweight boxing champion Max Schmeling, who was serving in the German Army.

Banwell and a few of his comrades managed to slip away from their captors and then acquired an assault landing craft. With the help of some Cretan fishermen they made their getaway, but the craft ran out of fuel and drifted for nine days before reaching the North African coast. The privations of this voyage put Banwell in hospital for 12 weeks.

When he had recovered, someone noticed that he bore a resemblance to General Montgomery. It was decided that he participate in deception ploys, and so Banwell was sent to Cairo to meet Montgomery, given the appropriate clothing, insignia and General's badges and sent on trips around the Middle East to confuse enemy spies.

However, as he was considerably taller than Montgomery, he was told that on no account should he get out of the car. Banwell, finding the assignment boring, sought a return to the infantry.[7][8]
Clifton James latter played Montgomery and himself in a movie dedicated to the deception, which shows how much acting and decoying can intermingle, the ultimate mise en abyme.

Coming back to Queen Elizabeth II, she does have a look-alike, actress Jeannette Charles, whose acting career amounts almost entirely as incarnating the Queen :
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0153055/?ref_=rvi_nm
 

Ermintruder

Delineated by a professional cryptozoologist
Joined
Jul 13, 2013
Messages
5,781
Reaction score
8,377
Points
284
Coming back to Queen Elizabeth II, she does have a look-alike, actress Jeannette Charles, whose acting career amounts almost entirely as incarnating the Queen :
Ah, but she's sufficiently-unrealistic as to simply be the exception that fails to prove the rule.

I still cling to my liftraft that I believe very (very) little of what we are collectively told, whether that be crazy theories or inarguable certainties.

For me, the question as to whether something is true or false is largely-irrelevant. What counts is why it can be so easy to discern deceptions (in any sense), when there should be much-more effective effort being put into making them entirely-realistic.

Distraction is the name of the game. Because even if you do notice my card-trick, you don't notice me borrowing your soul :actw:....:ddance:
 

Bigphoot2

Not sprouts! I hate sprouts.
Joined
Jul 30, 2005
Messages
8,224
Reaction score
25,563
Points
309
Clifton James latter played Montgomery and himself in a movie dedicated to the deception, which shows how much acting and decoying can intermingle, the ultimate mise en abyme.
For a moment I had a vision of this Clifton James playing Monty
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
2,556
Reaction score
6,039
Points
219
Location
Welwyn Garden City (but oddly, not an actual city)
So our Queen Elizabeth II is still alive and kicking (at time of posting) and she is getting on a bit now. (Should probably stop the kicking)
And Phil the Greek is 99 too.
And I read recently (dunno how much truth in it) that she will remove herself from HoS in April, allowing Prince Charles to become King.
(Although apparently he won't be King Charles but King Henry IX for some reason, or was it Harry? But I digress).
Also she has said that she will 'continue with duties'...which I guess doesn't necessarily mean as Queen....maybe as 'Queen Mother' or some other such title.
But in the absence of anything being formally confirmed either way.....what do our assembled patrons think is going to happen royally over the next 12 months?
I reckon Phil the Greek is likely to cark it (I've got a fiver on it in the pub necro-pool) before the end of 2021.
I reckon Lizzie will shuffle into the shadows, carrying out fewer and fewer engagements.
Charlie will become King Henry/Harry/Herbie or whatever, with Camilla being named something like Queen Cornwall.
And that reign will last about 6 months with Charlie saying it needs a younger person as HoS, abdicating in favour of William.
Whaddya reckon??????
 

Timble2

Imaginary Person
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
5,899
Reaction score
1,854
Points
234
Location
In a Liminal Zone
.....(Although apparently he won't be King Charles but King Henry IX for some reason, or was it Harry? But I digress)....
He's Charles Philip Arthur George Windsor, I thought he's said he might rule as George VII (a sort of tribute to his grandad). Don't think her majesty will abdicate, far too "old school" for that sort of thing. Although if she can't manage the engagements any more she might designate Charlie as Prince Regent, until such time as she pops off.
 

gordonrutter

There must be a set character limit to this opt...
Staff member
Joined
Aug 3, 2001
Messages
4,144
Reaction score
6,145
Points
234
He's Charles Philip Arthur George Windsor, I thought he's said he might rule as George VII (a sort of tribute to his grandad). Don't think her majesty will abdicate, far too "old school" for that sort of thing. Although if she can't manage the engagements any more she might designate Charlie as Prince Regent, until such time as she pops off.
They can choose any regnal name they want, doesn’t have to be one of their own. And yes agree, I don’t think abdication will happen.
 

Carse

Ephemeral Spectre
Joined
Jan 31, 2016
Messages
271
Reaction score
622
Points
94
I think both the DoE and the Queen will die in the next 12 months. And I think the loss of the Queen will be a very weird and unsettling time for the country as a whole.

As for Prince Charles taking the regnal name George VII, that’s been more or less confirmed over the years hasn’t it?
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
2,556
Reaction score
6,039
Points
219
Location
Welwyn Garden City (but oddly, not an actual city)
Phil the Greek has been knocking on deaths door for the past few years but they won't let him in!
And I wouldn't be surprised if Lizzie goes on for ages, way past 100.
Lets face it, a lifetime of waving isn't going to wear you out is it.
 

kamalktk

Antediluvian
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Messages
5,578
Reaction score
8,782
Points
284
Isn't she supposed to be a Reptilian? Do Reptilians die?
 

Cochise

Never give up, never surrender
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
6,343
Reaction score
8,149
Points
284
He's Charles Philip Arthur George Windsor, I thought he's said he might rule as George VII (a sort of tribute to his grandad). Don't think her majesty will abdicate, far too "old school" for that sort of thing. Although if she can't manage the engagements any more she might designate Charlie as Prince Regent, until such time as she pops off.
I was assured by my history teacher approximately 52 years ago that he would not take the regnal name Charles III due to the controversies over mks. I and II. George and Henry would seem to have similar problems. He's no Arthur. So Phillip I would seem to be a good choice.

That's assuming Her Maj dies before he does.
 

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
42,165
Reaction score
32,322
Points
309
Location
Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
Phil the Greek has been knocking on deaths door for the past few years but they won't let him in!
And I wouldn't be surprised if Lizzie goes on for ages, way past 100.
Lets face it, a lifetime of waving isn't going to wear you out is it.
They can just fit a robotic arm to her corpse, nobody would notice the difference!
 

Stella Gardiner

I really like you mister. What do you do?
Joined
Oct 15, 2018
Messages
25
Reaction score
92
Points
14
what's odd is at the start of this year i remember a news story on my phone saying the Queen had announced that she would abdicate in 2020. I remember thinking it was odd that nobody seemed to be talking about it. I checked through the story a couple of times and it seemed genuine. Can't find it now and I have no idea what it was all really about.
 

Peripart

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
5,901
Reaction score
3,720
Points
259
I was assured by my history teacher approximately 52 years ago that he would not take the regnal name Charles III due to the controversies over mks. I and II. George and Henry would seem to have similar problems. He's no Arthur. So Phillip I would seem to be a good choice.

That's assuming Her Maj dies before he does.
Likewise, no good choosing James, after 1688 and all that, although I'd enjoy the slight confusion when people wondered why he was James VIII, not II...

The problem is, if you base the decision on whether previous kings of that name were controversial, what would you choose? Edward - good for pissing off little brother, but not after Ted 8. William - well, that would just steal the new heir's thunder. Louis - well, great-uncle L was a bit of a sort, even if he was Charles' favourite relly. Andrew - er, no. There's Philip, yes, or maybe Frederick is a nice royal name, but no obvious reason for choosing the latter

I do think that George VII sounds like the best bet, but we've known him as Charles for so long, that anything else would seem odd.
 

gordonrutter

There must be a set character limit to this opt...
Staff member
Joined
Aug 3, 2001
Messages
4,144
Reaction score
6,145
Points
234
Likewise, no good choosing James, after 1688 and all that, although I'd enjoy the slight confusion when people wondered why he was James VIII, not II...
Hang on - there's already been a James II / VII
 
Top